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i'm a huge dd fan but that doesn't mean i think he covers the distance to blitz ss before ss can....move. at least not if he's TRYING to evade. this isn't batman or deathstroke. ss is among the fastest character in comics....
In Matt Fraction's Defenders, Surfer literally was able to turn himself to snow existing as an intangible consciousness and separated his consciousness into individual atoms or something of the sort.
Dambo has a point. If we use a "forum setting" (Which I'm not a fan off tbh), Doomsday can't touch Surfer.
Surfer could literally travel entire galaxies before Doomsday crosses half of 0.5km based on some of his depictions. Surfer isn't always a speedster and sometimes is oddly unimpressive. But he has enough combinations of ridiculous sensory perceptions/cosmic awareness and travelling speed feats, that he should on paper make the Flash his b*tch.....BUT that's not how comics work.
Anyways, Doomsday would still punch him to the death imo unless this is "Herald of Galactus" mindset Surfer I think.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Apr 9th, 2019 at 02:55 AM
"you must have found some way around his phase powers",and in panel MMH been wrecked by DD
And I'm not familar with marvel,So about SS and DD who will win,I can't say.
I counter is based on your descriptions.....
DD could altering energy and defeating radiant,even counter and defeat waverider
And speak speed.DD's opponents also have many impressive speed feats.Like superboy and supergirl already could instantaenously travel to source wall in Teen Titans volume 3 ending.But they still been beaten by DD(or more accurately,his clone,but DD clones are far weaker than DD,since DD could defeated a clone just by one strike)
DD though maybe not have strictly speed feats(Actually,his strength,durable etc also not strictly).But he is a character beating other characters to shows how powerful he is.
Last edited by qwertyuiop1998 on Apr 9th, 2019 at 05:14 AM
Except Shadow Dragon never beat the crap out of Superman. DD did.
OK, if you want to keep it to pure speed feats....
Who's faster in a foot race, Gorr or Cap America? Quantifiable running feats only please.
Maybe....Swimming? Who's faster in a swimming race, Lois Lane or Gorr?
Because at this point, where does it end? Who is faster, Flash or DD? Superman or DD? Cyborg or DD? Dr Doom or DD? Emma Frost or DD? Wolverine? Batman? Alfred? The Penguin? Thor?
All those guys have quantifiable speed feats. DD hasn't. Are you seriously going to ignore everything else, and say he's slower than all of them? That if I amped Penguin with adamantium claws, he's going to speed blitz Doomsday and cut his head off (let's assume he's been told to do so)?
That would essentially mean you're arguing that the entirety of DoS is PIS, as Superman, despite not holding back his speed, was unable to avoid DD.
While some of the others may be chimed up to generic 'omg he moves so fast', this scan, in particular, is so blatant, that it really shouldn't be argued. I mean, imagine any other two characters in this exact circumstances [say, Runner and a new character called MarvelousDay], with Runner getting the crap beaten out of him and struggling, explicitly, by his own words, to match his speed -- this wouldn't even be a question. On top of this, we have multiple other statements, from multiple other characters, comparing him to Flash, or saying he is ridiculously fast to corroborate it [not that it's needed]. It's..really clear cut.
To put it even easier - if we make a thread where we have DoS Superman vs Doomsday - would anybody in their right mind argue Superman speed blitzes him, considering the above?
I think the argument is misguided [using blatant PIS to draw false equivalencies? C'mon] - it shouldn't be "is DD that fast" and more like "would his first action be to blitz Surfer before he could take off?". DD is an instinctual beast, not a combat genius, for example.
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Last edited by Philosophía on Apr 9th, 2019 at 09:10 AM
Uhh gorr can rip moon chunks and hurl them into space. I'm sure one can quantify(quesstimate) that.
Also about getting tagged by slower folks, i may have conflated other forms of DD. In hpdd though fodders seemed to not have a problem tagging him. They were mostly on the receiving end however. Then again he really didn't need to move fast against weak opponents. It seemed like he was just shrugging off their attacks. *shrug*
Basically this is how i see it. If char a and b are both stated to be as fast or faster than character c(a well known character with all kinds of speed feats), but only char a has a slew of quantifiable or or semi-quantifiable feats to go along with statements, I'll always side with char a > char b. Char a has statements and actual raw feats to back them up.
In any given arc or book, any character can be depicted or viewed differently by the writer and artist team. A character will not always be operating at the same levels all the time. Sometimes a character who is strong struggles with a mountain or a building. Then all of a sudden they can crush planets like nothing. Same for speed. Sometimes they seem to be only operate at high mach. Then all of sudden in another book they are operating just under or even way over light speed.
Then you have a character compared to them. What level did the book team have the character(fast or strong) they were compared to at? Were they high mach or around light? Were they at mountain level or planet crusher?
Hence why i think having raw feats to go along with statements is pretty important. It fleshes out a character more and gives a better picture in terms of battleboards.
So zero benching feats. Thus, Cap has actual quantifiable feats - he wins.
Does not need to be Gorr. Let's use......TOAA. What quantifiable speed feats does he have? Living Tribunal?
So like when Superman gets hit by bullets. Doesn't mean he's slower than bullets, right?
What if char B kills char A? Or Char A goes up directly against B, and says that he's too slow for B? That's a nice direct comparison right there, no?
So in short, TOAA, Living Tribunal, The Presence et all lose in battle boards according to you. Lois Lane is faster than all these three.
Where would you place DoS Doomsday? Is he Jimmy Olson level? Bibbo Bibbowski level? Riddler level? Alfred? Assume I give each of these guys a Phantom Zone projector, and all they need to do is point and shoot at DD....Are you saying they will be able to outreact DD and win?
What if they had Wolverine's strength level, and adamantium claws....Would they be able to speed blitz and chop his head off? We know how easily the claws slice through heralds like Gladiator, so minimal strength is needed.
If he can rip moon chunks(quantifiable) and hurl these chunks(quantifiable), why would he need quantifiable bench numbers > Cap? Huh??
Yes. Though he can be hit by "slow" opponents, doesn't mean he is slow. Never disagreed there. Was balancing the idea that he moves at "fast" nearly all the time. I just want to take into account everything since we don't have much in the way of raw numbers for him.
That would be nice. Again though feats > statements. I would have to refer again to the idea that characters do not operate exactly the same in any given book even when written by the same author. And in this medium, we have a ton of writers that have different views and writing the same character.
It's silly to compare nigh omnipotents to virtual ants. Why?? Why even go there? That's apples and oranges... Or even worse.
Why would DoS be Jimmy or Bibbo level?
Dunno. How fast is the projector? Is dd reacting pre-operation or reacting when fired? Beats me.
I'm gonna leave the last one alone. It's nearly lunch hear and I'm hungry. My brain can't take anymore of your apples and oranges.
If Doomsday can out speed Superman, and Superman clearly comments several times on his speed, and he keeps up and ultimately beats him to death....Why does he need quantifiable speed feats? Huh??
We have one writer for DoS, and one for H/P. They both are of the view DD is pretty damn fast.
To show you how ludicrous your argument is. I am using the EXACT logic you use. One side has quantifiable feats, the other, doesn't.
Ok, let's use... Cap America vs Thanos, bench press. Too high? How about Thor. Quantifiable BENCHING only, please. Or let's use speed
Who's faster, Thanos or Cap?
Jimmy has quantifiable speedfeats. DD doesn't.
This is what your argument is. I have speed feats for Alfred. I do not have speed feats for Doomsday. Ergo, Doomsday is slower than Alfred. Or at the very least, I cannot say DD is faster than the 80yr old butler of Batman.
Replace Alfred with whatever character you want - in this case, Surfer - and that's your exact statement. I could use Alfred, or Jimmy Olsen, or Perry White.....Assuming all I needed was a speed feat, that automatically puts them above DD.
Because apparently, being called faster than Flash and in the same comic beating DC's top dog to death isn't a feat.....
Edit: in short,let's approach it from your end.
DD is NOT Flash level. He's not Surfer level. So where is he? Almost every and anyone you name will have quantifiable speed feats. Is he herald level at least? Meta? Street?
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Last edited by DarkSaint85 on Apr 9th, 2019 at 03:32 PM
You're trying real hard to make this more confusing than it actually is lol.
Doomsday, is still very fast. Fast enough to be a threat to top tiers speed wise, but in no way shape or form does that mean he can cross .5kms before Surfer moves into the air on his board. He doesn't have feats of that nature.
What I am 100% sure of is that if Surfer would engage up close like tends to do, is that he would be easily taken by surprise and knocked off his board. Doomsday is full of feats like that. But being able to blitz a light speeder from that distance, when Surfer can see him as unless its specified, they are with a visible straight shot of each other?
That's ridiculous. You still need to take into consideration of the nature of the speed feats.
I have no idea what the lois lane or Penguin examples are supposed to prove.
Of course its PIS. isn't that the conclusion we came to ? Every time Superman is hit, it is PIS ? At least for forum purposes ?
No but really, Doomsday has proven that up close he's capable of making Superman get hit from his own speed. Doesn't mean he's faster than Superman.
The Lois Lane and Penguin examples are there because celey (who I was messaging when you replied to my post) says feats > statements, and at the same time disregards tagging Superman consistently even as he comments on the speed, as a feat.
So that leaves DD with nothing.
Penguin has some speed feats, I'm pretty sure. Shite ones, but they're still there. If DD has no feats, and statements are disregarded, then.....Penguin is faster than DD. Because you have nothing to base your judgement of DDs speed on.
How fast was Supes operating? Zomgz ftl or mach? How fast was flash operating?
Yes, I accept that. He is pretty fast. No argument there.
Again that's not my argument. What's ludicrous is comparing LT to ants...
U would have been better off comparing let's say Blue Marvel to Classic Hype. Although BM seems fast and had tangled with speedsters like King Hype and and Current Hype, I'd choose Classic Hype > him in speed. Why, because he has slightly better concrete speed feats than BM. He's kept up with King Hype and Gladz. He also has on panel nanoseconds combat feats. So he has relative, statements, and raw feats covered. It's really that simple.
Lol.. No one is saying Dd has no speed feats. Not sure why u keep putting up that strawman. What i keep saying is he does not have clear, quantifiable speed feats. You said it yourself. I'm not completely disregarding his speed showings as I've repeated in some form more than once.
I've always thought Entropy Bubble ftw. Given everything Surfer can do (I mean, would anyone have guessed he could turn to snow??), I don't see an e-bubble as beyond him.
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Shinier than a speeding bullet.
I've yet to hear one reason any competent matter manipulator (down to at least molecular levels) or reality warper cannot simply rewrite or destroy Doomsday's DNA (molecules) and just eliminate the entire source of his abilities. His powers aren't magic or divine or anything other than biologically based due to rapid forced evolutuon.
And, "because DC writers haven't thought of it yet" isnt a reason.
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