And what are your credentials that makes you such an expert on what will happen in a real sword/spear fight?
IIRC, Achilles was armed with a spear too when he used that move on the spear wielder (Hector). Unless you're talking about a different scene?
But even if he was using a sword, a move like that will put you at an awkward angle to hit for the spear wielder. The line of attack provided by that jumping strike is not a line of attack commonly used. Plus if using a sword, you'll be at a much closer distance than comfortable for a spear.
Wow. You have No Idea how real world physic and tactics work at all. Do you!? A Shield can be used as a Weapon too you know. And If you Jump in the Air like that. You have No support or Footing to back up your attack. Achilles in this movie is an IDIOT! A Lucky Idiot!
__________________ Banned 30 days for the Crime of "ETC"... and when I "ETC" I do it HARD!!!
Actually I train in HEMA and have sparred and trained with sword, shield and spear. I'm pretty sure I know more about this than you do.
A jumping attack like that would, in one move, provide both lateral movement and increased leverage/height. It would be an attack coming from an angle that would be completely unexpected. Then add your full weight to the power behind your attack and I can see it being a pretty effective move PROVIDED YOU'RE FAST AND AGILE ENOUGH TO PULL IT OFF.
From what we see in the movie, it seems clear that Achilles is supposed to be that fast and agile.
Furthermore, the attack is targetted at the defender's shield side. If you've ever tried fighting with a large shield, you'd know how difficult it is to attack someone on that side. You'd need to move your shield out of the way to get the proper angle for a good hit... not a smart move if you want to defend yourself for an oncoming hit. So you have the choice of either raising your shield to block the incoming blow or getting your shield out of the way so you can deliver your own counterstrike and risk leaving yourself open.
As for using the shield itself as a weapon, well, the shield provides a short range whereas Achilles is launching this attack with sword or spear. He'd be out of striking distance of your shield.
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Last edited by FrothByte on Jan 26th, 2019 at 05:35 PM
So you decline to rebutt any of my logical points and instead come back with ad hominem attacks? Seems like you already admitted you have no idea of what you're saying. I don't think you even know what HEMA is, since HEMA is not usually found in Hollywood movies.
And jumping attacks are also used in modern day fencing, particularly in men's saber. They're not advised to be used often, but used once in a while they're pretty effective as they catch the opponent off guard. So forgive me if I put more faith in the actions of olympic fencers over that of your opinion.
Bull shit. The WAY that Achilles Attacked Hector was TOTAL CRAP!!!!!!! It was a Pure Hollywood Move. And Hector in that movie was Not a Little Guy. He should have No Prob using THAT Shield to Defend Himself against Achy an That Sword! And FENCING is NOT Real FIGHTING!!!!!!
Big Diff between non lethal Practice and Someone TRYING TO KILL YOU!
Hema should Point THAT out to You.
The Fighting in this Movie was PURE HOLLYWOOD BULLSHIT!
That and the movie was pretty boring as well.
__________________ Banned 30 days for the Crime of "ETC"... and when I "ETC" I do it HARD!!!
Uhuh. Sure. How bout you actually address the points I raised instead of resorting to repetitious insults. I pointed out that striking someone on your shield side is not easy, the range of your shield attack is much shorter than the range of sword and shield, how the jumping attack grants lateral and leverage advantages, and how it allows the attacker to put their entire weight behind the blow.
You failed to counter any of that and resorted to insults instead. Classical tactic for someone who doesn't know anything about the topic.
Hector was roughly the same size as Achilles. Not sure what that has got to do with it. Footwork, stance, leverage and body mechanics are more important here. Hector could have weighed 400 lbs, he still would have been pushed back if he was attacked from an unexpected angle.
And I'm pretty sure Olympic fencers have way more knowledge about swordplay than a random keyboard warrior like yourself. Judging from what you've said so far, it's clear you know jack about this shit.
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Last edited by FrothByte on Jan 26th, 2019 at 06:01 PM
Except that I actually listed down numerous points and examples to back up my logic. I explained the mechanics behind swordplay and the action being done here.
What example did you use to backup your argument? What logic or mechanics did you explain to back up your stance? I doubt you even know how leverage and lateral movement helps in a sword fight.
And You act like JUMPING in the AIR is ike the Crane Move of all Fighting Techniques. You act like having a Shield is more of a Hindrance in a Sword Fight then NOT!
__________________ Banned 30 days for the Crime of "ETC"... and when I "ETC" I do it HARD!!!
Nope, I never claimed those things. A jumping attack is indeed a high risk move. What I'm arguing against is your claim that it's a stupid/tard move.
A high risk move is not stupid, it's simply something that has high gains if it succeeds and high consequences if it fails. But it is not a "tard move" as you claim. We see jumping attacks used in fencing, kendo, naginata, hema and escrima. They're not often used but they ARE used in weapons combat.
As for the shield, it has its pros and cons. It provides greater coverage/defense at the expense of restricting your movement. The greater the coverage provided, the more it will restrict your movement and lines of attack. That's just how it is.
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Last edited by FrothByte on Jan 26th, 2019 at 06:23 PM
I see you continue to evade my arguments. Why don't you just man up and admit you were wrong?
Movie fights are very seldom realistic, this is no exception. That said, this fight is more realistic than a lot of other movie sword fights out there.
The only Favor You have in this Argument is that I only watched this Movie ONCE and that was years ago. But Achilles Stupid Fighting Tactics burned its way in to my memory.
The Fights were Crap.
Would you prefer it if I posted a bunch of links to articles and vids point this out?
Nice Try Skippy.
__________________ Banned 30 days for the Crime of "ETC"... and when I "ETC" I do it HARD!!!
Yes, actually I would. Something logical to actually back up your arguments. It won't necessarily mean you're correct but at least you'd have something else other than your opinion.
Fly being Fly again. It's cool Froth, as someone who has also studied a few martial art and weapon styles, you're pretty much right on the money.
It should also be taken into account that Achilles could get away with his extremely high risk fighting style because he is so physically superior to most opponents he can get away the moves because he's actually capable of pulling them off successfully.
Thanks. There are a lot of moves in movie fights that are unrealistic but only because real people lack the necessary skill and physical stats to pull it off.
Achilles's jumping attack is a good example. I could see the advantages it would grant but I doubt real people would have the necessary speed, agility and leg strength necessary to pull it off as seamlessly as he did. Especially not in armor.
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