I'm not sure how using a feat Vader accomplished while amped by "light side super energy" per George Lucas and preparing for minutes beforehand to do it surpasses anything Dooku has done. It's completely unquantifiable.
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
Both the fact files and George Lucas have said he was amped. I'm not making up lame excuses lol.
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Coming soon to a Hell near you.
I completely missed that in the book. Could you please locate the quote for me?
LAME
Totally lame.
We're discussing Legends, and in Legends, FF or anything else that wasn't g canon < g canon. Even Lucas' statements could not contradict the movies. Here is the script:
EMPEROR
If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.
Blinding bolts of energy, evil lightning, shoot from the Emperor's
hands at Luke. Even in his surprise, the young Jedi tries to use the
Force to deflect them. At first he is half successful, but after a
moment the bolts of energy are coming with such speed and power the
young Jedi shrinks before them, his knees buckling. The wounded Vader
struggles to his feet, and moves to stand at his master's side.
EMPEROR
Young fool...only now, at the end, do you understand.
Luke is almost unconscious beneath the continuing assault of the
Emperor's lightning. He clutches a canister to keep from falling into
the bottomless shaft as the bolts tear through him.
....
EMPEROR
Now, young Skywalker...you will die.
Although it would not have seemed possible, the outpouring of bolts
from the Emperor's fingers actually increases in intensity, the sound
screaming through the room. Luke's body writhes in pain.
Vader grabs the Emperor from behind, fighting for control of the robed
figure despite the Dark Lord's weakened body and gravely weakened arm.
The Emperor struggles in his embrace, his bolt-shooting hands now
lifted high, away from Luke. Now the white lightning arcs back to
strike at Vader. He stumbles with his load as the sparks rain off his
helmet and flow down over his black cape. He holds his evil master high
over his head and walks to the edge of the abyss at the central core of
the throne room. With one final burst of his once awesome strength,
Darth Vader hurls the Emperor's body into the bottomless shaft.
The Emperor's body spins helplessly into the void, arcing as it falls
into the abyss. Finally, when the body is far down the shaft, it
explodes, creating a rush of air through the room.Vader's cape is
whipped by the wind and he staggers, and collapses toward the
bottomless hole. Luke crawls to his father's side and pulls him away
from the edge of the abyss to safety. Both the young Jedi and the giant
warrior are too weak to move.
==============
There is *nothing* that implies a "Light Side PIS Nexus".
Excerpts from the book agree with the script.
If anything, this is an extraordinary feat for Vader considering how horrendously weak he was. He couldn't even use one arm that well because, well, he just had it lopped off. He most likely had a concussion, if not, then he at least had the headache of a lifetime.
OK fine let's say he had a light side nexus amp. With that amp, he was:
"Weaker than he'd ever been..."
Vader had never been so weak. He had one arm. He was in pain. He moved only by sheer will of mind. His heart was being electrocuted the entire time by the Emperor's strongest lightning. The Emperor had just ramped up its strength to kill Luke:
"...the outpouring of bolts from the Emperor's fingers actually increased in intensity," and this was just after it was strong enough to render Luke (almost) unconscious.
What amp exactly did Vader have? It was a weak ass amp if it was there. It didn't do Vader any favors.
"Vader had lain still these last few minutes, focusing his every fiber of being on this one, concentrated act - the only action possible; his last, if he failed. Ignoring pain, ignoring his shame and his weaknesses, ignoring the bone-crushing noise in his head, he focused solely and sightlessly on his will - his will to defeat the evil embodied in the Emperor."
So what. Light Side. Dark Side. Either way, Vader tanked Sidious' strongest lightning for more than twenty seconds and tossed Sidious to his death.
If you can prove to me that Dooku's lightning > Sidious' lightning, then I'll concede, but you'll need to do this while taking into account *all* of Sidious' lightning showings in Legends as well as canon.
Also keep in mind that Vader did not have a light saber. Vader with a lightsaber will deflect anything Dooku's throws at him.
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
Well there are quotes that state Palpatine's intention genuinely was to kill Luke after he rejected the dark-side... So I don't see why it wouldn't be his full-strength lightning.
Yeah the fact that he wanted to kill him is obvious but it's very clear he wanted to torture Luke first which he obviously can't do if Luke's dead which is what would happen if he released his Lightning's full potency.
It's likely he scaled back his Lightning.
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Coming soon to a Hell near you.
Scaled back his lightning...
It seems clear in the excerpts that I added earlier that Sidious wasn't trying to kill Luke at first, but Sidious later says "you're gonna die." When he does, it's very clear that he increased the potency of his lightning:
"Now, young Skywalker, you will pay the price in full. You will die!"
"...the outpouring of bolts from the Emperor's fingers actually increased in intensity."
Also, how strong does strong need to be in order to kill a person after the person is dead?
"Luke, I'm going to increase the power of my lightning and kill you."
*Sid's ramps up voltage. Kills Luke.*
Next day on KMC:
"Sid's did not use his strongest lightning!"
*Meanwhile, back on the Death Star, Luke's charred husk is being swept up by droids.*
Granted, I did say strongest lightning, but I don't see Dooku matching Sidious' capability in a capacity that could kill Vader. The only way it would kill Vader is if Vader isn't using his saber to deflect it and at the same time tanking it and charging Dooku and taking him down. If Vader were to die doing that, then Dooku dies before Vader no matter what. There is no way that Dooku is going to defeat Vader because Vader will kill himself before allowing Dooku to live. Vader did the same thing to Maul when he fought Maul in Resurrection, but Vader did survive after stabbing himself in the chest.
Also remember that Sidious' lightning got to Vader's heart. Vader has survived many other lightning blasts, including blasts of pure lightning from the sky, and didn't die. There is nothing to prove that Dooku's lightning can get through Vader's suit, throught the fail safes that Vader incorporated into his suit, and through Vader's shielding ability, and getting to his heart. He's taken bombs into his hands and held them next to his chest and absorbed the blasts with no real damage. He kept on walking. No helmet. No suit. He lives. Prove that Dooku can replicate what Sidious did and that he can get his lightning to Vader's heart.
Is Dooku strong enough to break Vader's Force Barrier? Tutaminis? And moving beyond this...
If Anakin's Djem So overpowered Dooku in ROTS, pre-opening to the dark side , then Vader's style will leave him in a puddle.
"Skywalker who had again come out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord unceremoniously to the floor. This was not in the plan. Skywalker slammed his following strike down so hard that the shock of deflecting it buckled Dooku's elbows."
"The first overhand chop of Skywalker's blade slid off Dooku's instinctive guard. The second bent Dooku's wrist. The third flash of blue forced Dooku's scarlet blade so far to the inside that his own lightsaber scorched his shoulder, and Dooku was forced to give ground. ..."
"Dooku felt himself blanch. Where had this come from? Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength-not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing"
Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Coming soon to a Hell near you.
just a by the way to help put voltage into perspective:
"For one thing, the contact voltage of a typical industrial electrical shock is 20 to 63 kilovolts, while a lightning strike delivers about 300 kilovolts.
Industrial shocks rarely last longer than half a second (500 milliseconds) because a circuit breaker opens or the person is thrown far from the live conductor. Lightning strikes have an even shorter duration, only lasting up to a few milliseconds. Most of the current from a lightning strike passes over the surface of the body in a process called "external flashover.""
^^^
three hundred thousand volts in a lightning bolt.
now, think about the fact that exposure for the average human is measured in milliseconds. .... ok, now think about the fact that vader tanked sidious' lightning for nine seconds.
at the same time, consider the fact that luke had great potential in the force and already possessed some of the greatest raw power in the force compared to just about any character in SW. also consider that luke is known for having tremendous will power, which has saved him many times from being killed and also from turning the dark side. it even helped him turning back to the light side, which is supposed to be (near) impossible. sidious' lightning was strong enough to kill luke-to break through his will power, or so we assume so because it is stated in the movie and in the novelization and is in the script. sidious' lightning is exceedingly strong, and vader tanked it for nine seconds or so. icr off hand.
Last edited by Red Heathen on Feb 12th, 2019 at 04:41 AM
Well considering he did that to the most powerful force user ever, I'd say it is an impressive feat, and disregarding it is just blatant lowballing of Vader. Dooku would get fried by Sidious's lightning just as badly as Mace did in ROTS.
Vader beats Dooku, it's that simple. If he isn't beating him in a duel, then he is using TK. Vader's skill with djem and juyo is also enough to tire Dooku out.
It' a great fight though
Last edited by TheIndyJedi on Feb 12th, 2019 at 07:42 AM
Lmao. Rebuttal will be up in a few hours time more than likely. For gosh sake though as bdsmbdsm said I didn't ask for a wall of text that doesn't actually prove anything. I have CaV posts to write.
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
Feb 11th, 2019 11:56 PM
