KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Community » General Discussion Forum » Coronavirus

Coronavirus
Started by: Surtur

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (504): « First ... « 238 239 [240] 241 242 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
-Pr-
Hey Yo!

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Wear a mask, especially if you're high risk of getting it. While not guaranteed to protect 100% (and few things are), it's still a layer of protection. Worse thing that will come of it, you wear a mask and they can be slightly uncomfortable at times. It's a logical trade off.


Well yeah, that's the thing. Even if there's a 0.000001% chance that a mask will actually do something, it's still the safer option. It's not going to hurt me to wear a mask for a few hours.

If only Ireland would stop letting ****ing tourists coming in. Thanks UK/USA.


__________________

Fuck Putin. Help Ukraine

Unicef
UN Refugee Agency
Red Cross

"What does not kill me... is not trying hard enough."

Old Post Jul 15th, 2020 09:03 PM
-Pr- is currently offline Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
Senor Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

(please log in to view the image)

But it's going to have a much higher chance of potentially stopping droplets and such than that.

Build a wall? stick out tongue


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Old Post Jul 15th, 2020 09:52 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
BackFire
Blood. It's nature's lube

Gender: Male
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Moderator

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden_2.0
I was thinking more along the lines of cannibalism.


I only consider it cannibalism is you start eating them while they’re still alive.


__________________

Old Post Jul 15th, 2020 10:24 PM
BackFire is currently offline Click here to Send BackFire a Private Message Find more posts by BackFire Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

Account Restricted

quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
Well yeah, that's the thing. Even if there's a 0.000001% chance that a mask will actually do something, it's still the safer option. It's not going to hurt me to wear a mask for a few hours.

If only Ireland would stop letting ****ing tourists coming in. Thanks UK/USA.


Which makes the mask flip flopping all the more puzzling.


__________________
Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.

Old Post Jul 15th, 2020 10:26 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
cdtm
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
Well yeah, that's the thing. Even if there's a 0.000001% chance that a mask will actually do something, it's still the safer option. It's not going to hurt me to wear a mask for a few hours.

If only Ireland would stop letting ****ing tourists coming in. Thanks UK/USA.



Now you know how the "racists" on the right feel about our broken open door immigration policies. stick out tongue


__________________
What CDTM believes;

Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.

Old Post Jul 15th, 2020 10:46 PM
cdtm is currently offline Click here to Send cdtm a Private Message Find more posts by cdtm Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
jaden_2.0
Awful

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote:
I only consider it cannibalism is you start eating them while they’re still alive


Spoken like a true Klingon warrior.


__________________
Sweating on the streets of Woking

Old Post Jul 15th, 2020 11:26 PM
jaden_2.0 is currently offline Click here to Send jaden_2.0 a Private Message Find more posts by jaden_2.0 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
cdtm
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Well, there are the stories about mafioso grinding people up and putting them in salami.



So if you've ever had pepperoni pizza, you just might transform into The Wendigo.


__________________
What CDTM believes;

Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.

Old Post Jul 15th, 2020 11:30 PM
cdtm is currently offline Click here to Send cdtm a Private Message Find more posts by cdtm Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
dadudemon
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Bacta Tank.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by BackFire
I only consider it cannibalism is you start eating them while they’re still alive.


Dude, you're actually pretty close to correct.

Eating dead human bodies is a specific form of cannibalism called "necro-cannibalism." Killing someone and then eating them is "homicidal cannibalism."


And eating part of someone who you fully intend to live (willingly or not) is a fetish or mania and it has a name. I forget. Vorarephilia (vore)? Cannibalistic Sadism? I can't remember. It has a name.


__________________

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 01:56 AM
dadudemon is currently offline Click here to Send dadudemon a Private Message Find more posts by dadudemon Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Gehenna
Sorgo

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Yet to be found

DDM:

I had left a couple of these behind so I'll address them now.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
And here is the latest testing data by state where you can see massive amounts of testing increases but positive tests are not keeping pace with "positives per test" meaning actual positive cases are going down per test, not increasing, like all the news outlets are reporting:


Concerning this particular claim?

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states
^ The source above points to an initial deep dip and then? Since mid to late June, a steady upwards increase in positive cases per test.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/tracker/overview

This source contains each individual state and some are increasing, some are decreasing. In aggregate, this seemingly manifests as growth in positives cases per test.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
If you look at the real story, here are the weekly deaths by state which includes only 4 states where it has gone up. Notice how almost all are sharply declining and only 4 have an increase


If you take a peek at the second link right above, it seems there are quite a few more than just four states who've seen positive cases per test go up. Where I'd agree? Increases/decreases lies at the feet of state and federal authorities but it seemingly also has quite a good deal to do with the generalized culture and social proclivities of each state's population.

Moving on, what I am about to address I did address partially earlier, and specifically highlighted how a collection of epidemiological studies supported the usage of mask due to rates of infectivity pre-and-post masking wearing (then stated the WHO and the CDC supported it and asked if you thought they were bullshitting), but would like to add further comment specifically concerning RCTs.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
any studies that do support mask wearing are not real world studies that use RCTs


Now, there are some RCTs but they're not quite the perfect sort of RCT that we would really desire (I'm not sure if such an RCT would pass an IRB). I go off of the summary of proof within this particular piece: https://web.archive.org/web/2020061...wanted-to-know/

It seemingly indicates that there is higher quality evidence in favor of mask-wearing than against. For example, it's likely good to don masks within indoor locations that are crowded where you'll be there for an extended period of time. That being said, no one reasonable thinks masks are a cure all. However, they're useful in mitigating within high-risk circumstances/situations.

Concerning HCQ/CQ, I don't think we have an RCT for those either, no? With respect to COVID-19, specifically.


__________________


Nothing ever ends.

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 05:52 PM
Gehenna is currently offline Click here to Send Gehenna a Private Message Find more posts by Gehenna Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
Hey Yo!

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Which makes the mask flip flopping all the more puzzling.


People should be consistent.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
Now you know how the "racists" on the right feel about our broken open door immigration policies. stick out tongue


I don't support open immigration, though I don't know how the situation with it is in America.


__________________

Fuck Putin. Help Ukraine

Unicef
UN Refugee Agency
Red Cross

"What does not kill me... is not trying hard enough."

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 06:14 PM
-Pr- is currently offline Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Old Man Whirly!
Restricted

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Account Restricted

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gehenna
DDM:

I had left a couple of these behind so I'll address them now.



Concerning this particular claim?

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states
^ The source above points to an initial deep dip and then? Since mid to late June, a steady upwards increase in positive cases per test.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/tracker/overview

This source contains each individual state and some are increasing, some are decreasing. In aggregate, this seemingly manifests as growth in positives cases per test.




If you take a peek at the second link right above, it seems there are quite a few more than just four states who've seen positive cases per test go up. Where I'd agree? Increases/decreases lies at the feet of state and federal authorities but it seemingly also has quite a good deal to do with the generalized culture and social proclivities of each state's population.

Moving on, what I am about to address I did address partially earlier, and specifically highlighted how a collection of epidemiological studies supported the usage of mask due to rates of infectivity pre-and-post masking wearing (then stated the WHO and the CDC supported it and asked if you thought they were bullshitting), but would like to add further comment specifically concerning RCTs.



Now, there are some RCTs but they're not quite the perfect sort of RCT that we would really desire (I'm not sure if such an RCT would pass an IRB). I go off of the summary of proof within this particular piece: https://web.archive.org/web/2020061...wanted-to-know/

It seemingly indicates that there is higher quality evidence in favor of mask-wearing than against. For example, it's likely good to don masks within indoor locations that are crowded where you'll be there for an extended period of time. That being said, no one reasonable thinks masks are a cure all. However, they're useful in mitigating within high-risk circumstances/situations.

Concerning HCQ/CQ, I don't think we have an RCT for those either, no? With respect to COVID-19, specifically.
thumb up good Post, surely DDM understands the fact, the evidence for masks is growing stronger all the time... surely?

Surely he understands the ethical issues with an RCT and a highly infectious disease? Surely?

Last edited by Old Man Whirly! on Jul 16th, 2020 at 06:24 PM

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 06:19 PM
Old Man Whirly! is currently offline Click here to Send Old Man Whirly! a Private Message Find more posts by Old Man Whirly! Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
dadudemon
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Bacta Tank.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gehenna
DDM:

I had left a couple of these behind so I'll address them now.



Concerning this particular claim?

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states
^ The source above points to an initial deep dip and then? Since mid to late June, a steady upwards increase in positive cases per test.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/tracker/overview

This source contains each individual state and some are increasing, some are decreasing. In aggregate, this seemingly manifests as growth in positives cases per test.


There's nothing we can discuss that has not already been discussed, in my opinion, because the data speaks for itself. Any thing we'd state would just be restating what is in the data and the graphs already exist for that - so we could just use those. We state anything contradictory to the data, we'd just be wrong. This is why I say let the data speak for itself.


Biggest thing that sticks out to me is there are now 11 states with increased deaths, 2 of which have not seen spikes greater than prior numbers.

July-16:

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)



My original screen shots from June 28:

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)


https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH...DS/dgkvlgkrkpb/



quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gehenna
If you take a peek at the second link right above, it seems there are quite a few more than just four states who've seen positive cases per test go up.


If you take a look at the screenshots in time, when they were taken, it was just 4 states who saw deaths increase which is the reference to 4 states. I did not misrepresent the data.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gehenna
Moving on, what I am about to address I did address partially earlier, and specifically highlighted how a collection of epidemiological studies supported the usage of mask due to rates of infectivity pre-and-post masking wearing (then stated the WHO and the CDC supported it and asked if you thought they were bullshitting), but would like to add further comment specifically concerning RCTs.



Now, there are some RCTs but they're not quite the perfect sort of RCT that we would really desire (I'm not sure if such an RCT would pass an IRB). I go off of the summary of proof within this particular piece: https://web.archive.org/web/2020061...wanted-to-know/

It seemingly indicates that there is higher quality evidence in favor of mask-wearing than against. For example, it's likely good to don masks within indoor locations that are crowded where you'll be there for an extended period of time. That being said, no one reasonable thinks masks are a cure all. However, they're useful in mitigating within high-risk circumstances/situations.

Concerning HCQ/CQ, I don't think we have an RCT for those either, no? With respect to COVID-19, specifically.



In this next section, I've addressed all of this already. Including the content that you linked from the Web Archive (why did that site take down that article?).

I've even gone through 2 different meta-analyses which covered almost only quality RCTs (and they have a few study overlaps).


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...40#post17229240

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...41#post17229241


And this was my conclusion from all of it:

quote:
...respirators (N95s) worn continuously during healthcare shifts may, not guarantee, offer some protection against COVID-19.


Because some quality research found that even the N95s did not offer additional protection.

And all of this specifically applies to HCWs.

What happened with the RCTs on households, they found no benefit because people simply interact with each other too much and the virus gets everywhere:

quote:
Influenza transmission was not reduced by interventions to promote hand washing and face mask use. This may be attributable to transmission that occurred before the intervention, poor facemask compliance, little difference in hand-washing frequency between study groups, and shared sleeping arrangements. A prospective study design and a careful analysis of sociocultural factors could improve future NPI studies.



And to your last point, yes, we don't have any quality RCTs for COVID-19 for the general public because there's no way to control who wears and who does not wear a mask - the best you can do is a retrospective study and it cannot be an RCT or even highly quality due to the self-reporting nature.

You could potentially do an RCT based on people who guarantee they will not wear masks and still follow up with with verifications of masks (like in the Thai study) and only use lab-positive results (because multiple studies found that mask wearing creates a placebo effect and measuring that against lab results showed no benefit).


__________________

Last edited by dadudemon on Jul 16th, 2020 at 07:19 PM

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 07:14 PM
dadudemon is currently offline Click here to Send dadudemon a Private Message Find more posts by dadudemon Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

Account Restricted


__________________
Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 07:16 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Old Man Whirly!
Restricted

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Account Restricted

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
There's nothing we can discuss that has not already been discussed, in my opinion, because the data speaks for itself. Any thing we'd state would just be restating what is in the data and the graphs already exist for that - so we could just use those. We state anything contradictory to the data, we'd just be wrong. This is why I say let the data speak for itself.


Biggest thing that sticks out to me is there are now 11 states with increased deaths, 2 of which have not seen spikes greater than prior numbers.

July-16:

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)



My original screen shots from June 28:

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)


https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH...DS/dgkvlgkrkpb/





If you take a look at the screenshots in time, when they were taken, it was just 4 states who saw deaths increase which is the reference to 4 states. I did not misrepresent the data.




In this next section, I've addressed all of this already. Including the content that you linked from the Web Archive (why did that site take down that article?).

I've even gone through 2 different meta-analyses which covered almost only quality RCTs (and they have a few study overlaps).


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...40#post17229240

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...41#post17229241


And this was my conclusion from all of it:



Because some quality research found that even the N95s did not offer additional protection.

And all of this specifically applies to HCWs.

What happened with the RCTs on households, they found no benefit because people simply interact with each other too much and the virus gets everywhere:




And to your last point, yes, we don't have any quality RCTs for COVID-19 for the general public because there's no way to control who wears and who does not wear a mask - the best you can do is a retrospective study and it cannot be an RCT or even highly quality due to the self-reporting nature.

You could potentially do an RCT based on people who guarantee they will not wear masks and still follow up with with verifications of masks (like in the Thai study) and only use lab-positive results (because multiple studies found that mask wearing creates a placebo effect and measuring that against lab results showed no benefit).
no *cringe*

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 07:22 PM
Old Man Whirly! is currently offline Click here to Send Old Man Whirly! a Private Message Find more posts by Old Man Whirly! Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
BrolyBlack
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location: Among The Stars

Account Restricted

Dude you are pathetic


__________________



Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 07:35 PM
BrolyBlack is currently offline Click here to Send BrolyBlack a Private Message Find more posts by BrolyBlack Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
Senor Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

(please log in to view the image)


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 08:11 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

Account Restricted

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
(please log in to view the image)


I disagree with Trump here, how about you?


__________________
Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 08:30 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Gehenna
Sorgo

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Yet to be found

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Biggest thing that sticks out to me is there are now 11 states with increased deaths, 2 of which have not seen spikes greater than prior numbers.


This appears to be a different argument than what I initially responded to, which was:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
And here is the latest testing data by state where you can see massive amounts of testing increases but positive tests are not keeping pace with "positives per test" meaning actual positive cases are going down per test, not increasing, like all the news outlets are reporting


It appears that positive cases are increasing per test. I'd agree that the fourteen day growth in deaths reported is localized to certain states, that's borne out in all of the data I've observed where several, particularly within the South, are now peaking when it comes to caseload.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
What happened with the RCTs on households, they found no benefit because people simply interact with each other too much and the virus gets everywhere


So, it's really not the point of the masks to wear them in your household. They're more relevant for when you go outside, on public transportation, to your job, etc.

I would agree that if you live with somebody and that person gets it, you'll all get it pretty hastily in most given situations. I don't think the advice has been to wear masks around your family. This is when pooled testing is most useful.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
And to your last point, yes, we don't have any quality RCTs for COVID-19 for the general public because there's no way to control who wears and who does not wear a mask - the best you can do is a retrospective study and it cannot be an RCT or even highly quality due to the self-reporting nature.

You could potentially do an RCT based on people who guarantee they will not wear masks and still follow up with with verifications of masks (like in the Thai study) and only use lab-positive results (because multiple studies found that mask wearing creates a placebo effect and measuring that against lab results showed no benefit).


Well, I was asking about RCTs concerning HCQ and CQ, not concerning masks in this instance. I'd agree it will be arduous to assess the effects of mask usage in retrospect, but I cannot wait to check out what type of clever proxies people use to achieve higher faithfulness than self-reporting, or if there are solid arguments in favor of self-reporting. With that being said, there are good arguments to believe mask-wearing is prudent in the contexts detailed by the SSC article.

Addendum: Concerning the web archive you inquired about, what happened was the NYT was going to write a story about that particular blog. Initially? Things seemed fine, but then the NYT said they were going to report the author's full name. That particular author works as a psychiatrist and doesn't want that level of publicity attached to his blog since he feels it could affect his job ngeatively. The NYT said that it was unfortunately policy, and so in response to that, he proceeded to delete his blog. It is likely temporary, but we'll see.

More info: https://slatestarcodex.com/


__________________


Nothing ever ends.

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 08:31 PM
Gehenna is currently offline Click here to Send Gehenna a Private Message Find more posts by Gehenna Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
jaden_2.0
Awful

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
I disagree with Trump here, how about you?


I disagree with Trump here too.

The more pertinent question would be Does Trump disagree with Trump here?


__________________
Sweating on the streets of Woking

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 08:59 PM
jaden_2.0 is currently offline Click here to Send jaden_2.0 a Private Message Find more posts by jaden_2.0 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
Senor Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden_2.0
I disagree with Trump here too.

The more pertinent question would be Does Trump disagree with Trump here?


Bingo


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Old Post Jul 16th, 2020 09:02 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 05:27 PM.
Pages (504): « First ... « 238 239 [240] 241 242 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Community » General Discussion Forum » Coronavirus

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.