This seems to really water down Plagueis's abilities as well. Instead of midichlorian manipulation (seeming imortality & biokinesis on the level of Panacea from Worm) we just get some kind of slow-moving cloning-jutsu. It is objectively weaker (short term) than the Essence Transfer used by the Bane/Zannah hybrid that emerges from the finale of Dynasty of Evil.
Palpatine must (slowly!) engineer a receptive vessel, which involves grappling with all of the problems inherent to cloning, generally, and cloning Force users, specifically. By contrast, any powerful Force user seems to be a valid target for Bane's essence transfer, which needs no dedicated preparation afaik.
Sheev/Plagueis’s essence transfer can work on powerful Force users as well, but in order for them to possess a person, that person must strike them down in anger.
And it's made clear that spirits gain a sort of all-encompassing awareness when they ascend to that level of being. IOW, Yoda likely did not have that knowledge while he was alive.... and if he did, he's a dick.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
That is directly contradicted by the entire plot of TRoS.
It would have been laughably easy for Sidious to provoke Kylo Ren into striking him down in anger. Even inert bulkheads were able to provoke Kylo into striking them down in anger. Moreover, Kylo is clearly positioned by the narrative as being just as powerful as Rey (or very nearly so). Claiming the bloodline of the Skywalkers is just as practical as, and arguably more cruel than, overwriting his only heir.
Instead, Sidious launches a byzantine plot to deliver the scion of his own bloodline to his doorstep. That strikes me as clear evidence of a genetic restriction that did not apply to Bane/Zannah's method.
From what i understand Sheev initially planed to use Kylo as his new body and wanted Rey death. Only after he learned about Kylo's redemption he decided to use Rey. This is why he said that the princess of Alderaan ruined his plans.
I mentioned this before, but logically speaking, if Palpatine were capable of body-hopping into any Force user who struck him down in anger, then he wouldn't have been stuck in a rotting clone corpse for decades, waiting for the heir of his bloodline to surface... This is presumably the same reason why Plagueis didn't try to hop into Palpatine's body upon his death. It has to be the 'right' vessel, or the transfer doesn't work.
That's why the cultists kept trying to make clones of Palpatine to be the vessel, that's why he didn't just have Kylo kill him and transfer his essence into Kylo's body, that's why he specifically wanted Rey, etc.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 20th, 2020 at 06:20 PM
It has to be a vessel strong enough to contain his power and someone who would lash out in anger. The novel nor the script suggest a genetic component. In fact, the novel suggests Sidious was trying to possess Luke during the Battle of Endor:
For example, like Sidious ordering Kylo repeatedly to kill Rey, only to claim at the film's end that his intention was always for her to survive and wind up on Exegol. That contradicts the plot as well.
So too does the time Sidious tells Allegiant General Pryde that Leia inspiring Kylo to renounce the dark side "has disrupted [his] plans." Why does he care?
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of genetic pre-condition to the essence transfer, but for every implication the movie or book offer to support it, there's an implication to the contrary:
We know Plagueis discovered the technique and Sidious pilfered it from him. We know Plagueis attempted to use on Sidious when Sidious killed him but didn't act fast enough in the moment. Sidious insinuates that he was attempting to goad Luke into striking him down so he could body hop into Luke.
So as to why he just didn't goad Kylo into striking him down in anger at the film's prologue, who knows? It may very well be that there is a genetic component or it may be Sheev pulling the same stunt he did with Dooku and Anakin throughout the Clone Wars: pit two viable candidates against one another and select the victor to serve as his apprenticemeatsuit.
Sidious evidently had an [albeit imperfect] clone on Exegol, waiting to receive his essence. When he was hurling down the reactor shaft, he had time to jettison his essence into said clone. The novel states that his body was dead/empty long before it reached the bottom... Which is odd given the massive energy discharge after his body hit the bottom, along with the fact that you can hear him screaming the entire way down, but I digress.
Per RotS, Palpatine killed Plagueis in his sleep. Not sure why that would effect one's ability to transfer their essence, unless Plagueis didn't have any vessels prepared like Palpatine did. Dunno.
Right, so if he could hop into anyone who struck him down in anger, why wouldn't he just let Kylo(who was fully prepared to kill him at the beginning of the film) just strike him down and be done with it?
Why waste decades trying to make a clone of himself that was suitable? Why wait for his non-Force sensitive clone "son" to conceive a child of the same bloodline naturally, and specifically wait for her abilities to mature so that he could use her as a vessel?
It seems likely to me that there was a genetic component that was needed in order for the transfer to be successful. If not, then there are a LOT of plot-holes here...
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Your quote specifies only that Plaguies acted in the moment of his murder, not that the target of an essence transfer was Sidious himself.
In Legacy of Evil, Andeddu's Essence transfer converts the entire body into dark side energy "at the speed of thought" and initiates a battle of wills with the target.
Plaguies's technique is described exclusively as biokinesis aimed at midi-chlorians. He narrates this method of death used for a politician in his book. Sidious describes this kind of biological manipulation as Plaguies's only form of defense attempted against the Force choke that ultimately killed the Muun. Moreover, Sidious indicates that he has learned at least some degree of mastery over this technique, and muses on using biokinesis to save his former master. No mention is made of Plagueis using a technique aimed at Sidious (or at anyone else).
Unfortunately, nothing like an essence transfer is described in the Plagueis book. This means that the description from the novel version of TRoS must be a retcon. However, based on the information in LoE & the screenshots you've shared here, Bane's version of the transfer works faster and in more different situations than the one attempted by Sidious.
citations:
Here's the essence transfer from the bane/zannah fight:
Here's the description from Plagueis, where the Muun kills someone from the senate:
How does the book explain Palpatines fleet busting lightning?
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."