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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » What was Darth Maul's true potential ?


What was Darth Maul's true potential ?
Started by: ozz81

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ozz81
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Registered: Sep 2011
Location: Australia


 

What was Darth Maul's true potential ?

Was or could Darth Maul eventually supposed to be as powerful or more powerful than his mother /Mother Talzin?
Does canon ever make mention of this ?

Old Post Feb 28th, 2020 11:24 AM
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Darth Thor
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Probably given Sidious betrayed her for him.

Old Post Feb 28th, 2020 12:48 PM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

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Doubt he was going to be as strong as Talzin, but his potential was definitely up there.


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Old Post Mar 1st, 2020 01:54 PM
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Total Warrior
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He had the potential to be a top tier housewife


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Old Post Mar 1st, 2020 05:44 PM
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Galan007
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

Palpatine considered losing Maul in TPM to be a legitimate "loss", even though he immediately took Dooku(one of the most powerful Sith in the franchise) as his apprentice. For a point of reference, he didn't care about losing Dooku at all.

Based on that alone, it seems like Maul's potential was immense.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 06:13 PM
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Total Warrior
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Well, I think he didn’t care about Dooku because he had Anakin right?


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 06:38 PM
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Galan007
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Registered: Jul 2006
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Right.

But he also had Dooku when he had Maul, yet still considered Maul as a "loss".


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 06:46 PM
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YousufKhan1212
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Pre-bisected Maul had the potential to succeed PT Sidious:

quote:
"Of all the uncounted trillions of sentient beings that populated the Galaxy, only one was deserving of respect: Darth Sidious. The man who dared to dream of conquering not just a world or star system, but an entire Galaxy. The man who had taken the young Maul from a backwater planet and raised him to be his successor. He owed Darth Sidious everything." -- Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter.


quote:
"Of all the beings in the galaxy, the Dark Lord had chosen him to serve as his apprentice and eventual successor, and yet Darth Sidious had neglected to equip him with the very tools he would need to carry the Sith imperative forward." -- Darth Plagueis Novel.


quote:
"The implications of this possibility made Maul catch his breath. For all Darth Sidious’s talk of his role as his apprentice and eventual successor, Maul still felt precious little connection to the Sith grand plan for the galaxy and his place within it. At the Dark Lord’s command, he’d spent years training on Orsis and then on Coruscant in the LiMerge Building, enduring years of privation and the harshest imaginable discipline while awaiting his Master’s visits." -- Maul: Lockdown.


All 3 of these sources say that Maul had enough potential to succeed Sidious, so it's pretty immense, but not as immense as Skywalker potential. Granted, one might argue that the third quote is from Maul's perspective if they wanted to be a smartass because of how it's phrased, but the first and third quote are not from Maul's perspective, they're the author's narration of the story, rendering Maul's in-universe perspective valid. Sidious himself has the same perspective:

quote:
"You have already traveled great distances," Sidious continued. "You may have been born on the planet Iridonia, but you came to my attention on another world, Dathomir. There, the females rule and enslave the males. You were just an infant, and yet the most powerful beings on Dathomir were afraid of you. They wanted you dead because you were different. Sidious smiled. "Do you know what makes you so remarkable, Maul? So different from ordinary life-forms?"

Maul shook his head and answered meekly, "No."

Sidious raised his eyebrows slightly and pursed his lips. Shaking his head, he said, "That is not the correct response. The correct response is 'No, Master Sidious.'"

Maul swallowed hard, then said, "No, Master Sidious."

Sidious smiled again. "You are different because you are stronger. You have powers. You know things in advance. You look at the closed door to your room, and you know it is about to open. You have fast reflexes. Others only dream of anticipating moments as you do, or being able to move so fast. In this way, you and I are alike, Maul, except that my powers are much greater. My powers are greater because I know many things that you have yet to learn, such as how to make your powers work for you. Do you understand?"

"Yes, master Sidious."

"Good. Good." Sidious walked around the watery orb until it was positioned between him and Maul. From Maul's point of view, the orb distorted Sidious's head and upper body, Sidious said, "I know you imagine a different life for yourself, Maul. An easier life than you have now."

Maul remained silent.

"I know you're upset about the snake that bit you," Sidious said, continuing around the watery orb until he had a clear view of Maul. "I know everything about you, Maul. Everything." Sidious edged around the orb until he was facing Maul again. "While you might think that your life is harsh and unpleasant, and that I am sometimes cruel, there is a reason for you to endure such pain. The reason is that you must become strong in every way. You must learn to overcome pain. Someday, you might become stronger than I. You'd like that, wouldn't you? To be stronger than I?"

"Yes, Master Sidious." -- The Wrath of Darth Maul.


Sidious has also said he can grasp Maul's potential for greatness in the dark side of the Force:

quote:
"I expect much from you, Darth Maul, only because I alone grasp your true potential for greatness in the dark side.”

[...]

Stepping away from the holovid unit, Darth Sidious opened his eyes and crossed the floor of the LiMerge Tower to the turbolift, his mind already teeming with a collision of thoughts.

As with any mission involving Maul, the situation that Sidious was creating on Cog Hive Seven was not entirely stable. The Sith Lord harbored no delusions about his apprentice’s ambition or pride, or how closely those elements were linked to the anger that was constantly sweltering inside his apprentice, fermenting as Maul’s power continued to intensify. Locked in unswerving allegiance to their cause, the Zabrak’s heart was a reactor of pure, distilled rage.

And that rage will serve him well.

Yes. When Sidious reflected back on the years of training that Maul had endured, proving himself repeatedly against the worst that the galaxy had to offer, he felt an unmistakable pride in his apprentice’s strength and fortitude. By definition, Cog Hive Seven was an environment that no one survived, yet Maul had already established himself as a dominant presence without relying on the Force. Despite what he’d said to Maul, Sidious felt an increasing respect for what his apprentice continued to achieve. In the fullness of time, such abilities would continue to serve him better than he could possibly imagine." -- Maul: Lockdown.


So there's your answer.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 08:12 PM
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Eli Vanto
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Registered: Jan 2020
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Any info about his potential in canon?


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 08:30 PM
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YousufKhan1212
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Any info about his potential in canon?


Not familiar with any canon information, only legends I'm afraid.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 09:20 PM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

Only canon info I'm aware of that might be indicative of Maul's potential is from Son of Dathomir #3:
https://i.imgur.com/UFOltIO.jpg
Talzin: "[Sidious] promised to make me his right hand, but instead he stole what was most dear to me [...] When Sidious realized Maul's potential, he took him from me and trained him as a Sith."

Depending on your interpretation of the dialogue, that could imply that Palpatine believed Maul's potential > Talzin's.

But again, it's ambiguous.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 09:39 PM
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Darthadi
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Sidious chosed Maul as a potential heir to the Sith. This is supported by both Filoni and Witwer and also by that comic where Sheev said that Maul was a loss. Even if is not explicitly said, the authorial intent is clear. Sidious burned bridges with Talzin just to get Maul because he realised how big is Maul's potential. Sidious wouldn't invest so much in an aprentice whose potential is not at least comparable to his own. With Dooku is different as he was just a place holder or as Sheev said a proton torpedo.

Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 10:23 PM
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YousufKhan1212
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Glad to see that people recognize that Maul wasn't a mere enforcer.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 10:48 PM
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YousufKhan1212
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@Galan007 would you please kindly correct a grammatical error in my post?


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2020 10:51 PM
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ozz81
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Registered: Sep 2011
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Pre-bisected Maul had the potential to succeed PT Sidious:







All 3 of these sources say that Maul had enough potential to succeed Sidious, so it's pretty immense, but not as immense as Skywalker potential. Granted, one might argue that the third quote is from Maul's perspective if they wanted to be a smartass because of how it's phrased, but the first and third quote are not from Maul's perspective, they're the author's narration of the story, rendering Maul's in-universe perspective valid. Sidious himself has the same perspective:



Sidious has also said he can grasp Maul's potential for greatness in the dark side of the Force:



So there's your answer.


Wow great info , but are they all Canon? Is "The wrath of maul" Canon ?

Old Post Mar 3rd, 2020 12:59 AM
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Galan007
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

^ Yousuf's sources are Legends.

As mentioned above, there is barely any information in canon regarding his potential.


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Old Post Mar 3rd, 2020 02:16 AM
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relentless1
Dark Overlord of KMC

Registered: Aug 2014
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it stands to reason that Maul had the potential to be Sidious' successor in canon because Sidious trained him with no knowledge of a Chosen One running around so he would've trained Maul to the best of his ability in order to keep the Sith line going and getting stronger and we know in canon that was Sidious goal based on how he lauds Vaders potential in episode 3

Old Post Mar 3rd, 2020 05:09 AM
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Eli Vanto
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Registered: Jan 2020
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How do you think Maul compared to Dooku at the time of SOD?


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2020 07:15 PM
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Darth Thor
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^ Dooku was > Maul, but it seems Maul had potential to be > Dooku. Or at least he had Before he got sliced.

Old Post Mar 19th, 2020 07:26 PM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
How do you think Maul compared to Dooku at the time of SOD?
If you only use the beam struggle from the comics as evidence, then Palpatine ~ Talzin, and Dooku > Maul(in terms of power, at least.)

-Palpatine and Talzin seem about equal during the initial struggle.

-Maul then gives his power to Talzin, just as Dooku adds his lightning to Palpatine's barrage.

-Talzin is quickly overpowered to the point where she is barely managing to shield from the attack, and Force pushes Maul to safety before he is also destroyed.

Point being, if Maul and Dooku were close in power, then the combined beam-struggle wouldn't have been so one-sided.


Moreover, Mace believed that Dooku was the Sith Master, and Maul was his apprentice:
https://i.imgur.com/JOm7JMT.jpg
...Which further lends to the notion that Dooku > Maul at the time.


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"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Old Post Mar 19th, 2020 08:52 PM
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