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Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not to mention him once overpowering The Son and Daughter combined ffs.

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Originally posted by Darth Thor
-The databank has made it clear Palpatine KNEW Vader would be weaker after his injuries. He wasnt talking about needing recovery time after coming off the operating table.

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Originally posted by Darth Thor
-Ahsoka did run from Palpatine. Her and Ezra combined could not hold Palpatine off.

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Originally posted by Darth Thor
- Vader needed Luke to overthrow the Emperor. This was according to Lucas himself, because Vader possibly lost the potential to do so. Nothing in the new canon has changed that. The plot of the OT has not been retconned.

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Originally posted by Darth Thor
- Exactly where was this room for improvement

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Originally posted by Darth Thor
Vader improved in his use of TK. And in consistent performances. So that is an improvement, and power up of sorts. But aside from that hes not levelled up one from Anakins peak performances. Nothing shows that anywhere.

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Originally posted by Galan007
I could at least follow the logic in Legends(even though it never made sense to me), because they made it a point to emphasize that Vader's injuries did reduce his power/potential, and the armor did inhibit him to some extent.

...But in canon it's the complete opposite. The injuries didn't gimp Vader's potential, and ultimately just increased his overall power/connection to the Force, and the armor didn't hinder him at all once he was accustomed to it.

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Originally posted by Zenwolf
I never really got the whole Anakin > Vader thing in either Canonicity. Because it always just seems to be "Well Anakin has more raw power" and...that's kinda it. Raw power/potential is all well and good, but if it's not actually usable then it's not meaning anything.

Always felt like they were close due to their own advantages, but obviously there are differences between the two given one is in a life support armored suit.

quote:

Vader turned and moved for the hatch.

But this is not walking, he thought.

Long accustomed to building and rebuilding droids, supercharging the engines of landspeeders and starfighters, upgrading the mechanisms that controlled the first of his artificial limbs, he was dismayed by the incompetence of the medical droids responsible for his resurrection in Sidious's lofty laboratory on Coruscant.

His alloy lower legs were bulked by strips of armor similar to those that filled and gave form to the long glove Anakin had worn over his right-arm prosthesis. What remained of his real limbs ended in bulbs of grafted flesh, inserted into machines that triggered movement through the use of modules that interfaced with his damaged nerve endings. But instead of using durasteel, the medical droids had substituted an inferior alloy, and had failed to inspect the strips that protected the electromotive lines. As a result, the inner lining of the pressurized bodysuit was continually snagging on places where the strips were anchored to knee and ankle joints.

The tall boots were a poor fit for his artificial feet, whose claw-like toes lacked the electrostatic sensitivity of his equally false fingertips. Raised in the heel, the cumbersome footgear canted him slightly forward, forcing him to move with exaggerated caution lest he stumble or topple over. Worse, they were so heavy that he often felt rooted to the ground, or as if he were moving in high gravity.

What good was motion of this sort, if he was going to have to call on the Force even to walk from place to place! He may as well have resigned himself to using a repulsor chair and abandoned any hope of movement.

[...]
"They eluded me." Vader lifted his scarred face to regard Sidious. "But they wouldn't have if this suit didn't restrict me to the point of immobility!
[...]

The defects in his prosthetic arms mirrored those of his legs.

Only the right one felt natural to him-though it, too, was artificial-and the pneumatic mechanisms that supplied articulation and support were sometimes slow to respond. The weighty cloak and pectoral plating so restricted his movement that he could scarcely lift his arms over his head, and he had already been forced to adapt his lightsaber technique to compensate.

He could probably adjust the servodrivers and pistons in his forearms to provide his hands with strength enough to crush the hilt of his new lightsaber. With the power of his arms alone, he had the ability to lift an adult being off the ground. But the Force had always given him the ability to do that, especially in moments of rage, as he had demonstrated on Tatooine and elsewhere. What's more, the sleeves of the bodysuit didn't hug the prostheses as they should, and the elbow-length gloves sagged and bunched at his wrists.

[...]
But there was a problem.

His new hands were too large to duplicate the loose grip Anakin had favored, right hand wrapped not on the grip but around the crystal-housing cylinder, close to the blade itself. Vader's hands required that the grip be thicker and longer, and the result was an inelegant weapon, verging on ungainly.

Another cause of the injury to his left arm.
[...]

Gazing at the gloves now, he thought: This is not seeing.

The pressurized mask was goggle-eyed, fish-mouthed, short-snouted, and needlessly angular over the cheekbones. Coupled with a flaring dome of helmet, the mask gave him the forbidding appearance of an ancient Sith war droid. The dark hemispheres that covered his eyes filtered out light that might have caused further injury to his damaged corneas and retinas, but in enhanced mode the half globes reddened the light and prevented him from being able to see the toes of his boots without inclining his head almost ninety degrees.

Listening to the servomotors that drove his limbs, he thought: This is not hearing.

The med droids rebuilt the cartilage of his outer ears, but his eardrums, having melted in Mustafar's heat, had been beyond repair. Sound waves now had to be transmitted directly to implants in his inner ear, and sounds registered as if issuing from underwater. Worse, the implanted sensors lacked sufficient discrimination, so that too many ambient sounds were picked up, and their distance and direction were difficult to determine. Sometimes the sensors needled him with feedback, or attached echo or vibrato effects to even the faintest noise.

[...]
With the loss of my limbs, have I also lost strength in the Force?

Vader recognized the voice of the one who posed the question as the specter of Anakin. Anakin telling him that he was not as powerful as he thought he was. The little slave boy, cowering because lie was not the master of his fate. A mere accessory in the world, owned by another, passed over. And now newly enslaved!

He lifted his masked face to the cabin's ceiling and growled in torment. Sidious's inept med droids had done this to him! Slowed his reflexes, burdened him with armor and padding. He relished having destroyed them.
[...]
And you rage and scream and reach through the Force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end, you cannot touch the shadow.
[...]

Allowing his lungs to fill with air, he thought: This is not breathing.

Here the med droids had truly failed him.

From a control box he wore strapped to his chest, a thick cable entered his torso, linked to a breathing apparatus and heartbeat regulator. The ventilator was implanted in his hideously scarred chest, along with tubes that ran directly into his damaged lungs, and others that entered his throat, so that should the chest plate or belt control panels develop a glitch, he could breathe unassisted for a limited time.

But the monitoring panel beeped frequently and for no reason, and the constellation of lights served only as steady reminders of his vulnerability.

The incessant rasp of his breathing interfered with his ability to rest, let alone sleep. And sleep, in the rare moments it came to him, was a nightmarish jumble of twisted, recurrent memories that unfolded to excruciating sounds.

The med droids had at least inserted the redundant breathing tubes low enough so that, with the aid of an enunciator, his scorched vocal cords could still form sounds and words. But absent the enunciator, which imparted a synthetic bass tone, his own voice was little more than a whisper.

He could take food through his mouth, as well, but only when he was inside a hyperbaric chamber, since he had to remove the triangular respiratory vent that was the mask's prominent feature. So it was easier to receive nourishment through liquids, intravenous and otherwise, and to rely on catheters, collection pouches, and recyclers to deal with liquid and solid waste.

But all those devices made it even more difficult for him to move with ease, much less with any grace. The pectoral armor that protected the artificial lung weighed him down, as did the electrode-studded collar that supported the oversized helmet, necessary to safeguard the cybernetic devices that replaced the uppermost of his vertebrae, the delicate systems of the mask, and the ragged scars in his hairless head, which owed as much to what he had endured on Mustafar as to attempts at emergency trephination during the trip back to Coruscant aboard Sidious's shuttle.

The synthskin that substituted for what was seared from his bones itched incessantly, and his body needed to be periodically cleansed and scrubbed of necrotic flesh.

Already he had experienced moments of claustrophobia-moments of desperation to he rid of the suit, to emerge from the shell. He needed to build, or have built, a chamber in which he could feel human again...

If possible.

All in all, he thought: This is not living.

This was solitary confinement. Prison of the worst sort. Continual torture. He was nothing more than wreckage. Power without clear purpose.

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Originally posted by Galan007
^ Because Palpatine's power increased over that time as well.