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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Kylo Ren Respect Thread


Kylo Ren Respect Thread
Started by: xPRIMEx

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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
I mean they can be sure, but is in 100% all the time? Is what Iím asking.


Well canon seems to copy paste a lot from the old EU, where Anoon Bondara and Maul had unparalleled Saber skills. But nobody ever seriously believed they were a match for Yoda and Sidious in Sabers due to those quotes.

So no idea why Kylo gets the benefit of the doubt on this.

Old Post Jan 2nd, 2021 10:48 PM
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xPRIMEx
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Lol ok... Iím not sure why ďlightsaber skillsĒ wouldnít include force augmentation as thatís a pretty big part of it. Greater force augmentation=greater skill. Seems like youíre just nitpicking because you donít agree with what it says.

Last edited by xPRIMEx on Jan 3rd, 2021 at 03:03 AM

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 02:55 AM
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xPRIMEx
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Also I never said Kylo was their equal, I just said their skills are comparable: they all have formidable lightsaber skills. Interpret that as you will, but I donít think a comparison would be made unless Kylo was at least near their level.

Last edited by xPRIMEx on Jan 3rd, 2021 at 03:40 AM

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 03:30 AM
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Galan007
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Registered: Jul 2006
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I agree, personally.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 03:50 AM
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Scizard
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For some reason this wasn't thread wasn't telling me people were talking in it, here's a working link: https://prnt.sc/wf6dng

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 09:14 AM
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Scizard
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Also Kylo Ren (TFA) has some scaling with him being stated to be able to beat ESB Luke https://prnt.sc/wf6g6o

ESB Luke was able to defeat the GI, he had a clear edge until he's caught off guard by the GI's saber. Filoni has stated Ventress (presumbly TCW only) >~ GI, so imo

TFA Kylo Ren > ESB Luke ~ Ventress >~ GI

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 09:29 AM
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xPRIMEx
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Do you know the source for that TFA Kylo>ESB Luke quote?

Sounds like itís talking about injured TFA Kylo too...

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 09:57 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Lol ok... Iím not sure why ďlightsaber skillsĒ wouldnít include force augmentation as thatís a pretty big part of it. Greater force augmentation=greater skill. Seems like youíre just nitpicking because you donít agree with what it says.


Because thats simply not what it means. Never had done.

You can have all the force augmentation you want, and blitz your opponent without using a Saber. But without mastering the firms, you dont have Saber skill.

2 very different things. Same in any sport really.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 11:30 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because thats simply not what it means. Never has done.

You can have all the force augmentation you want, and blitz your opponent without using a Saber. But without mastering the forms, you dont have Saber skill.

2 very different things. Same in any sport really.



Edited for spelling errors.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 11:31 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Do you know the source for that TFA Kylo>ESB Luke quote?

Sounds like itís talking about injured TFA Kylo too...
Star Wars - The Force Awakens: Head-to-Head (2016).


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I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 01:08 PM
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Dominis
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What page is this "much like" quote from TLJ visual dictonary on? Can't find it.

Personally, I do believe that as of TROS, Kylo Ren is meant to be up there with the very best. But the quote, as it's quoted here, seems to be talking about Kylo as of the time he left Luke's new jedi order, so if we take it to mean parity with Luke and Vader, then that would suggest that Ren, as of the time he took out Luke's students, was already on par with Luke/Vader. In order to believe that, you'd also have to believe that TROS Kylo would stomp Vader/Luke, considering that, based on his and Rey's performance against Palpatine's guards and the KOR (both of which are probably superior groups to Snoke's guards), he is at a level where he would stomp even his TLJ self, who is years more advanced than the Ren who took out Luke's students.

^And does that sit well with anybody?

Here's a question:

Lets say you are a professional boxer, and you have an 8 year old son, who much like you, possesses great skill in the sport...would that mean he is on par with you at 8 years old?


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 03:23 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dominis
Here's a question:

Lets say you are a professional boxer, and you have an 8 year old son, who much like you, possesses great skill in the sport...would that mean he is on par with you at 8 years old?



Yeah I was about to bring up heavy weights being separated from feather weights.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 03:34 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dominis
What page is this "much like" quote from TLJ visual dictonary on? Can't find it.

Here's the full page:
https://ibb.co/syrBWwn
-Ultimate Star Wars (New Edition)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dominis
Personally, I do believe that as of TROS, Kylo Ren is meant to be up there with the very best. But the quote, as it's quoted here, seems to be talking about Kylo as of the time he left Luke's new jedi order, so if we take it to mean parity with Luke and Vader, then that would suggest that Ren, as of the time he took out Luke's students, was already on par with Luke/Vader. In order to believe that, you'd also have to believe that TROS Kylo would stomp Vader/Luke, considering that, based on his and Rey's performance against Palpatine's guards and the KOR (both of which are probably superior groups to Snoke's guards), he is at a level where he would stomp even his TLJ self, who is years more advanced than the Ren who took out Luke's students.

^And does that sit well with anybody?
The entry as a whole is in reference to "Supreme Leader"(ie. TLJ/RoS) Kylo. So it's logical to assume the quote is speaking to Kylo's skills as of that era.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dominis
Here's a question:

Lets say you are a professional boxer, and you have an 8 year old son, who much like you, possesses great skill in the sport...would that mean he is on par with you at 8 years old?
But the quote doesn't state that Kylo possesses high-level skill "for his age" or w/e. It just makes a blanket generalization that as of TLJ/RoS, Kylo possessed "formidable lightsaber skills" that were "much like" that of Luke and Vader.

Do I think that statement alone incontrovertibly puts Kylo on par with Luke or Vader as a swordsman? No. But I certainly think the intent was for Kylo's skills to at least be in that general tier... Otherwise there would be no contextual point for Luke/Vader to be mentioned at all there. /shrug


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I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 3rd, 2021 at 07:35 PM

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 05:38 PM
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Rebel95
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scizard
Also Kylo Ren (TFA) has some scaling with him being stated to be able to beat ESB Luke https://prnt.sc/wf6g6o

ESB Luke was able to defeat the GI, he had a clear edge until he's caught off guard by the GI's saber. Filoni has stated Ventress (presumbly TCW only) >~ GI, so imo

TFA Kylo Ren > ESB Luke ~ Ventress >~ GI

So ROS Kylo>>TFA Kylo>>Injured TFA Kylo>ESB Luke>Grandinquisitor

Thatís pretty huge for Kylo. How has this not been talked about before?

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 08:57 PM
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xPRIMEx
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Unless the injuries itís talking about were from the fight against ESB Luke. Even then, itíd be pretty good scaling for Kylo:

ROS Kylo>>TFA Kylo>ESB Luke>Grand Inquisitor

Iíd like to see the full page if anyone has access to it.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 09:18 PM
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Rebel95
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Sounds to me like itís saying injured Kylo from TFA would beat ESB Luke. But yeah, either way, it scales ROS Kylo far above the Grand Inquisitor thumb up

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 09:50 PM
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ares834
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Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:
How has this not been talked about before?


Probably because almost no one takes the head-to-head results seriously. This has been the case for nearly a decade now.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 10:20 PM
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Darth Thor
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Plus we all kind of assumed already that Peak Kylo >>> any Inquisitor.

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 10:26 PM
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Rebel95
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Fair enough

Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 10:29 PM
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Dominis
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Here's the full page:
https://ibb.co/syrBWwn
-Ultimate Star Wars (New Edition)



Oh ok. That's why I couldn't find it, the OP said TLJ visual dictionary.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
The entry as a whole is in reference to "Supreme Leader"(ie. TLJ/RoS) Kylo. So it's logical to assume the quote is referencing Kylo's skills as of that era.


Yes but if the "much like" part is meant to be read as Ren being on par with Luke and Vader, then wouldn't the following sentence seem to suggest that he had possessed that same level of skill as of the time he faced Luke's students, since that is the following example used to give the reader an idea of Ren's skill?

That's why I don't think the "much like" part is meant to be read as an exact indicator of how skilled Kylo is compared to them, but rather that being related to them, he naturally possesses great skill in combat much like they did. Not necessarily the same level of skill.


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Old Post Jan 3rd, 2021 11:45 PM
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