Considering the page is centered around "Supreme Leader" Kylo Ren, the implication to me is that it is drawing a comparison between the lightsaber skills Kylo possessed at the time of TLJ/RoS(which is when he officially became the Supreme Leader), and the lightsaber skills of Luke/Vader. The excerpt then goes on to reference one of the sparse few instances where Kylo alone had actually put his "talent in combat" to use: and that was against Luke's Jedi students, which is true. But with the full context of the page considered, I do not think it was alluding to Kylo's swordsmanship already being on that level when he betrayed Luke and killed the students some 6-7 years prior to TLJ/RoS... Unless you are under the impression that his skills didn't improve at all during that time(which wouldn't really surprise me, tbh, given that Kylo's new Master was a borderline cripple who likely couldn't have done a whole lot to help refine his saber skills, and there weren't exactly an abundance of credible threats/Jedi running around for Kylo to test himself against either... But that's neither here nor there.) /shrug
Either way, I agree that the quote is not an exact indicator of skill -- it's just a general measuring stick. But as I mentioned above: there would be no contextual reason for Kylo's lightsaber skills to be likened to those of Luke and Vader at all, if the intent wasn't for him to at least be in their ballpark, imo. Otherwise the writers would have just thrown in a generic "Kylo's lightsaber skills are unequaled" line, like they did with the KoR in the very same sourcebook: https://ibb.co/dtF4bH7
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 4th, 2021 at 12:50 AM
I mean Kylo could've improved his lightsaber skills by training alone, that's how Dooku got as good as he was because Yoda refused to teach him saber combat and obviously he good great results. Having a cripple master shouldn't halt your saber prowess if you are a talented duelist.
Like I said above: the passage is most likely in reference to Kylo's saber skills as of TLJ/RoS, when he became the "Supreme Leader"(because that's what the page itself is in reference to)... And I would certainly think his skills in that era were superior to his skills when he killed the students years prior.
Just saying that I wouldn't exactly be surprised if it was revealed that his saber skills didn't increase much under Snoke's tutelage.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
I do think his saber skill likely did improve since then. That's kinda why I feel that the quote is merely suggesting that being a proficient saber duelist runs in his family instead of suggesting that he's on par with them as of a specific time in his life.
Also, looking at the page again, that part is like a side note or whatever with the heading "Jedi Killer," which discusses the event of Ren murdering his fellow students. IMO, I don't think it would randomly mention how skilled Kylo Ren became as of TLJ/TROS when it would have nothing to do with the event or the time period in which it's focusing on.
But that's just how I'm taking it.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
It would because its specifically talking about how that same skill was used to kill those Jedi under a sub-heading of Jedi Killer.
Theres no contradiction there to it being on a page about Kylo Ren as Supreme Leader, because its not like that skill has deteriorated over time. Its still there, if not better than before.
I'm just saying that the "much like" quote specifically seems to be in reference to Kylo's saber skills as of TLJ/RoS. I am not trying to claim that Kylo's swordsmanship was already in the ballpark of Luke/Vader back when he killed the Jedi students, and I personally do not think the statement is indicative of that.
...Unless, as I said earlier, we assume that Kylo's saber skills only increased negligibly in the 6-7 years between his initial turn to the dark side, and the events of TLJ/RoS. /shrug
tl;dr
Based on the quote, my personal opinion is that Kylo's "peak/prime" saber skills(which I assume to be the TLJ/RoS era) were intended to be somewhere in the ballpark of Luke and Vader. I do not believe that quote necessarily puts his skills on par with(much less superior to) Luke/Vader, however.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jan 4th, 2021 at 03:29 PM
That’s only implied by Rey in TFA and Snoke at the beginning of TLJ. I feel like ROS portrayed Kylo as a much more mature and powerful character who’s at the peak of his power.
I don’t see why Kylo’s saber skills wouldn’t be near Luke/Vader tier by the time he destroyed Luke’s Jedi temple. He was older than ROTS Anakin was by that point of time and had already received all of his training from Luke. The only other training he received was from Snoke who didn’t even use a saber. Even if he did improve, he could still be in the same general tier. For example I’d say TPM Maul and SOD Maul are in the same tier but he improved during the clone wars.
Last edited by xPRIMEx on Jan 4th, 2021 at 08:09 PM
That's a weird comparison though. You wouldn't say an 8 year old amateur boxer possesses great skills much like his legendary professional uncle and grandfather. That wouldn't make sense because they're not even close.
I agree with Prime and Galan on this one. Comparing Kylo to his uncle and grandfather like that there's definitely an indication of parity--or at least some level of parity. It wouldn't make sense if Kylo isn't even close to their level.
Last edited by Rebel95 on Jan 4th, 2021 at 08:24 PM
Heavy weights do not fight light weights in competition. And that has nothing to do with one weight being more skilled than the other. Theres simply an unfair weight/strength advantage there.
In combat The definition of skill is not who wins a fight.
But If the writers of these source books mean how they would actually compare in a sword fight, then they need to learn to express themselves better. But as it stands theres nothing there to use in a debate.
It also doesn’t rule out the possibility that he is. There’s a year between TLJ and ROS, and he appeared to have grown quite a bit. Just sayin... although TFA and TLJ point out he’s no Vader, ROS doesn’t.
Last edited by xPRIMEx on Jan 4th, 2021 at 10:52 PM
Jan 4th, 2021 12:16 AM
