__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
I think that's a poor analogy, Surt. Civilians, like us and like Floyd, have families we want to come home to as well, or at least live to see again, or maybe we don't and we just want to keep living. Why should we be subject to serious bodily harm or death from a public servant because cop got nervous or pissed off while dealing with us or mistook us for others, especially if we posed no threat to the them?
That's why it's in our best interest to limit the powers of police, demilitarize them, ensure that they are trained to properly diffuse conflict, to use force as a last resort and only the required amount of force to make the arrest. Lethal force should only be applied when met with the same. Easier said than done, I know, but I think those are pretty good basic guidelines. In their line of work, good judgment should be a requirement, and they should be able to prove their actions were appropriate whenever they are brought under scrutiny, which should probably be much more often.
I have such an issue with "compliance", not just in regards to police, but to authority figures in general. We're taught from an early age not to question them--be they cops, judges, politicians, teachers, parents, clergy, elders, etc--and automatically accept them as moral and ethical and wise, and we're typically punished if we are not completely obedient, even if our words and actions are right or just, and they're just plain wrong, corrupt, and full of shit. I really believe our society dwells far too much over whether actions are in compliance with what either the law or an establishment's rules allow and don't allow, rather than focus on whether or not the actions are causing harm or hardship to others.
Take this scene from Lenny, for example. Lenny Bruce's words are harmless, especially by today's standards, but the police and judge were much more concerned with punishing him for breaking the obscenity laws of the 1950s and courtroom codes of conduct. His pleas fall on deaf ears because he is not compliant with the rules, and is the one who truly suffers because of it, not the police or the courts or even the general public.
Pretty good arguments. I can pick apart your arguments, second by second, to show how Floyd clearly disobeyed orders, and dangerously, as he was given commands.
Such as when he put his hands on his head, he pulled them back down. Same with the steering wheel placement commands. Same with the commands to get out of the car. Same with the commands to put his hands behind his back. Same with the commands to get into the SUV.
He was extremely non-compliant and the police were rather patient. The fact that Floyd did not get some rounds into him as he wildly gesticulated his arms, when commanded to bring them on his head/steering wheel, is indicative of their patience. Other American officers have shot and killed people for less. Not that this is a good thing. Good on the cops for restraint.
He still died. So much for their patience.
But picking apart your arguments with a play by play is not necessary. Why? We all agree on what should have happened (I think) and what should not have happened (I think).
Anyway, Floyd was a suspect and matched the description. It is very hard for him to deny he did the fraud thing - he stands out because he is so extremely tall. They knew they had their guy.
Cop should have NEVER pulled his gun. Taser was a far better choice. The stray bullets could have hit the innocent bystanders or passengers. he's point blank.
But...the taser would have definitely killed Floyd due to the drugs in his system and his heart. Sadly, this is one instance where the less lethal option would have been the most immediately lethal.
I think Snowdragon's idea was the best: sit him down, get him medical attention. Complete the arrest. Do you agree with Snowdragon and I?
I honestly think most of us agree on what should have happened. Often, these arguments are arguments of degrees and we all really do agree on what should have happened.
I think we, and most if not all of us, agree that the police could have handled the arrest better than they did, and that Floyd did not deserve to die.
I do agree that the best thing for them to have done was cuff him, sit him down to mellow out, call an ambulance, and get him to a hospital for treatment before completing the arrest and taking him to the local jail. This would have likely produced the best outcome possible: Floyd would have gotten the treatment, and if he survived his drug overdose, he would have been arrested and jailed upon discharge, and would have appeared in court for the crime for his alleged crime(s).
He was clearly not well, and there lies my issue with the nitpicking of his compliance with police commands. Sure, he f*cked up a few times by either coming out of the position or initially going into the wrong position, but ultimately, he was willing and able to follow instructions without attempting to escape or harm the officers. I don't think I even heard him once get belligerent and insult them.
Was his failure to immediately get into and remain in these positions upon command dangerous? Yes, but only for himself, because as you've noted, there are police officers who would have immediately considered that aggressive behavior and shot him to death.
The police should have taken this all into consideration, and their polite demeanor over the course of roughly ten minutes, before they tried to force him in the car and pile on him in the minutes before he became unresponsive, frankly, does not impress me. If they cannot be trusted to keep a cool head and remain objective throughout an arrest in which their lives are not in danger, then they not only do not deserve to be police officers, but should also face legal consequences as well.
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Last edited by Eternal Idol on Aug 6th, 2020 at 03:26 PM
Moreover, the usual suspects are trying to have it both ways: they want to assert simultaneously that he was mentally ill and/or under the influence of controlled substances and therefore, an inherent threat to the responding officers; AND that his insufficient compliance justified their use of force.
But if he was mentally ill and/or under the influence of controlled substances, then they would have to be complete retards to expect him to comply like a rational person who is not impaired.
This entire angle is just a thin veil to justify their racist boot-licking.
It's true, nobody is saying Floyd not complying justified them killing him. Thankfully nobody has been dumb enough to try to say people here argued for that.
Though when you have a false narrative that was pushed for months I think it is important to set the record straight.
And we agree his death wasn't justified, so now that the narrative has been corrected basically the thing for us to do now is wait to see what happens to the cops involved.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Then what is there to "correct"? If "new" information does not affect the outcome or your position about it, then there is no legitimate reason to bring it up, because it is totally irrelevant.
Why are you so upset that everyone now knows what really happened?
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
Yep and if it's so irrelevant why did the media mislead us about what happened? Some of them at least had access to it for several weeks before it was leaked. CNN definitely did.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
They're praying to their gods that the cops who murdered Floyd get off, because they think it will somehow disprove BLM as a whole. It's a very weird mentally as it wouldn't, but they're weird people.
I can see the cops who didn't kneel on Floyd's neck getting off or with a light sentence, but the cop who did the neck-crushing, he's likely going down.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Oh and that reminds me apparently a block away from where that white woman was shot for saying all lives matter the city paid for a BLM mural
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
But this information did not affect the outcome or your position about it, so it is a total non-factor in the story, so what value did it add to the discourse?
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Aug 6th, 2020 03:27 AM
