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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Mace Windu confirmed as the Jedi Order's greatest swordsman


Mace Windu confirmed as the Jedi Order's greatest swordsman
Started by: Galan007

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StiltmanFTW
CBvF

Registered: Dec 2008
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I would refrain from using Galaxy of Adventures as evidence.


Unless we want to believe that only Leia had the balls in the whole OT.

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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 10:28 AM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Exegol


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
We don't see him throw the pods only lift them. At which point we see Yoda jump directly to Sidious. The events of the script can easily follow from there. There is no contradiction.
In GOA we see sidious start lifting the pods. That immediately segways into the movie where he's actually throwing the pods-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JV2x3p_Qn8&t=2m40s
which is a continuous scene all the way up to Yoda's defeat.

And since Yoda didn't disarm Sidious in that scene, it means he wasn't disarmed at all.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
These days I do think Palpatine is intended to be a better swordsman than Yoda, if only by a very narrow margin. However, I also understand the reluctance to accept the canonicity of GoA... To a certain point.

That said, I do not believe that Palpatine randomly decided to start hurling Senate pods at Yoda for the lulz -- I think that once he got some breathing room, he wanted to try and keep it that way. Palpatine may have been a [marginally] better swordsman, but the cramped quarters of a damn Senate pod would have undoubtedly favored Yoda's size and style.
Sure but like I said to ares- that doesn't mean Sidious was disarmed.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 11:21 AM
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ares834
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sheev
In GOA we see sidious start lifting the pods. That immediately segways into the movie where he's actually throwing the pods-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JV2x3p_Qn8&t=2m40s
which is a continuous scene all the way up to Yoda's defeat.


Nope. This is nothing more than your interpretation. As you yourself said:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sheev
Your feefees aren't canon. Sorry.


Heck, the fact that Sidious isn't holding his saber as well as the fact that Yoda is shown landing after leaping means we are missing something. The script shows us what that is.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 11:33 AM
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ares834
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I would refrain from using Galaxy of Adventures as evidence.


Unless we want to believe that only Leia had the balls in the whole OT.


Seriously. Like I said, these shorts present a very liberal interpretation of events that happened in the film.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 11:35 AM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Exegol


 

So between the time Sidious lifted the pods in GOA, to the time he started throwing them in the movie, you believe that Yoda jumped back up into the pod Sidious was standing in, disarmed him, then jumped back down to the lower pods to make it easier for Sidious to hit him (for some illogical reason)?? Lol, yeah that makes a lot of sense. erm

Yoda was very clearly jumping from lower pod to lower pod to make it more difficult for Sidious to target him with the pods he was about to throw. He's not just going to stand in one place and wait to get smashed.

But the notion that Sidious was disarmed at some point between lifting the pods and throwing them makes no sense, and actually does contradict the script. Because in the script there was NO lightsaber exchange between them once Sidious started moving the pods around, because he had already been "disarmed" by then. If you're still trying to use the script to validate your argument, you can't change its series of events to suit your argument.

Again, in the script Sidious had already been disarmed by the time he started moving pods around, but in GOA he still has his saber just before he throws the pods-
https://i.imgur.com/pIAogaC.jpg

Hence a contradiction between new canon and old canon. And new canon is what we go by.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 11:50 AM
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Lord Stark
Lord of Winterfell

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Winterfell


 

Again the Junior Novelization which was re-released with the Disney brand explicitly has Yoda disarming Sidious and also says Sidious has gotten more powerful with the rise of the Dark Side and the fall of the Jedi.

I'm fine using GoA for events outside of the context of the films, but it very regularly contradicts the movies when there are scenes within the movies ESPECIALLY with duels. It has Yoda running alongside walls and smiling while dueling Dooku when the movie never shows that.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 11:55 AM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Exegol


 

The GOA episodes are much more recent then the junior novel. The most recent information is what we go by. That's why TCW season 7 retcons Ahsoka;s fight with Maul from her novel for instance.

I agree that GOA is only canon when it doesn't directly contradict the movies. And in this case it does not directly contradict the movies, because Sidious was never shown to be disarmed in the movie..


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 11:59 AM
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ares834
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sheev
So between the time Sidious lifted the pods in GOA, to the time he started throwing them in the movie, you believe that Yoda jumped back up into the pod Sidious was standing in, disarmed him, then jumped back down to the lower pods to make it easier for Sidious to hit him (for some illogical reason)?? Lol, yeah that makes a lot of sense. erm


Sure.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sheev
Yoda was very clearly jumping from lower pod to lower pod to make it more difficult for Sidious to target him with the pods he was about to throw. He's not just going to stand in one place and wait to get smashed.


At the end of GOA he is shown jumping directly at Sidious.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sheev
But the notion that Sidious was disarmed at some point between lifting the pods and throwing them makes no sense, and actually does contradict the script. Because in the script there was NO lightsaber exchange between them once Sidious started moving the pods around, because he had already been "disarmed" by then. If you're still trying to use the script to validate your argument, you can't change its series of events to suit your argument.


Once again your "feefees aren't canon". The script does not mention he only beings lifting pods after being disarmed. We don't see the entire duel in the script. There is no reason why he could not have lifted or even thrown several pods at Yoda prior to being disarmed.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 12:15 PM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sheev
Sure but like I said to ares- that doesn't mean Sidious was disarmed.
I understand where you're coming from, and I agree with some of your points. Like you, I also believe that GoA is canon so long as it does not sharply contradict the films.

That said, I do think Palpatine is intended to be the better overall swordsman, but I also think the difference between he and Yoda was negligible at best. That is to say: the battle could go either way depending on the environment they are fighting in.

Imo, Palpatine would have the slight advantage on open ground... But in the extremely confined space of a Senate pod, Yoda's smaller size and acrobatic fighting style would obviously favor him, and potentially negate any skill advantage that Palpatine may have had.

So even IF Yoda disarmed Palpatine during their fight, it does not preclude the notion that Palpatine could still beat him in a different, more neutral setting.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 12:23 PM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Exegol


 

Ok that's reasonable I guess.

But where does that leave Mace in the scheme of things? Are we going with- Mace>Yoda~Sidious?


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 12:37 PM
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StiltmanFTW
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Registered: Dec 2008
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Seriously. Like I said, these shorts present a very liberal interpretation of events that happened in the film.


Yes.

It can be described as "semi-canon" or "canon-adjacent", perhaps, and I'm being really generous here.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 03:11 PM
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Total Warrior
Dark Councilor

Registered: Nov 2014
Location: Padova, Italy


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Again the Junior Novelization which was re-released with the Disney brand explicitly has Yoda disarming Sidious and also says Sidious has gotten more powerful with the rise of the Dark Side and the fall of the Jedi.

I'm fine using GoA for events outside of the context of the films, but it very regularly contradicts the movies when there are scenes within the movies ESPECIALLY with duels. It has Yoda running alongside walls and smiling while dueling Dooku when the movie never shows that.
Agreed


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 04:13 PM
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Trocity
Undefeated and Undisputed

Registered: May 2012
Location: Champion's Field


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Star Wars fans are a dying breed. Thanks Disney!


Yes, that was an odd flex by him.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 04:26 PM
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Psychotron
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Registered: Jun 2011
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sheev
Your feefees aren't canon. Sorry.

Same reason he put his sabers away against Maul and clowned him with the force instead.


Neither are cartoons. Nothing is higher canon than the movies.

Except he couldn't dominate Yoda with the Force like he could Maul. Sidious looked scared when he lost sight of Yoda during their duel.

Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 05:32 PM
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Sheev
The All-Sith

Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Exegol


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes.

It can be described as "semi-canon" or "canon-adjacent", perhaps, and I'm being really generous here.
Like I said earlier- I completely agree that GOA isn't canon as a whole. It's is only canon where it doesn't contradict the movies.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Psychotron
Neither are cartoons. Nothing is higher canon than the movies.
Right, and when did we SEE Yoda disarm Sidious in the movie?

Your opinion is not applicable here, nor are Legends sources. I'm asking when Sidious was shown to be disarmed ON SCREEN, since the movies are the highest form of canon like you said.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 05:54 PM
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juggernaut74
Bigsexy

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Death Star


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Psychotron
Neither are cartoons. Nothing is higher canon than the movies.

Except he couldn't dominate Yoda with the Force like he could Maul. Sidious looked scared when he lost sight of Yoda during their duel.
Sidious had the "Oh F*ck" look on his face several time before and after Yoda disarmed him.


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Old Post Aug 1st, 2020 06:47 PM
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StiltmanFTW
CBvF

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: The Wiltshire Estates


 

Yeah. He "won" by fluke.


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Old Post Aug 3rd, 2020 08:44 AM
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juyomaster34
Senior Member

Registered: May 2011
Location: Haruun Kal


 

I knew that before anyone confirming anything!!!
Mace Windu is the greatest swordsman.
Force powers, I wouldn't count him out of that area either.
Mace was trained by Yoda. He wasn't second to Yoda for light saber skill alone?

Com'mon guys Mace was second to Yoda in everything Force powers where also included with that title of Master of the Order. While Yoda held Grand Master.

Old Post Dec 13th, 2020 10:27 PM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

Lol, juyomaster. Blast from the past. thumb up

Anyway, it's worth noting that The Star Wars Book states: "Yoda is widely considered the greatest Jedi duelist, although he rarely showcases this talent."

The same source also states: "Mace Windu is second only to Master Yoda in lightsaber prowess, wisdom, and respect among his peers."


So per the aforementioned guide(which was released just after the source referenced in the OP), Yoda > Mace as a swordsman.


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Old Post Dec 13th, 2020 10:55 PM
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xPRIMEx
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2018
Location:


 

Jeez Disney get your story straight

Old Post Dec 13th, 2020 11:14 PM
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