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Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, the writer of the comic disagrees with your theory.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
Anyway, Omega beams didn't cause the destruction of the solar system, it was generic energy blasts.

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Originally posted by Astner
No he doesn't. He says it was the clash between the characters, which is exactly what the comics says.

What isn't specified is how much energy was contributed by Orion in this clash (or if it was even notable), and given that Orion had to escape the blast and was portrayed to be significantly weaker than the Golem throughout the story it's a noteworthy point of contention.

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If we had seen more of the initial confrontation there may have been more substance to your position. But as it stands it's flimsy and it shouldn't be at the heart of any argument.

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Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I also remember Superman 1 M holding back an entire galaxy with help with just his TK.

That would make him >>abstract level, if my comic math is correct.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
It was a galaxy moving at speed.

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A galaxy coming near another galaxy in two hours and so fast that it caused chronal ripples across centuries? Must be an average feat for hulk. Oh KMC.

Also @ using savage hulk's highest feats as his average. Rage just can't give anybody a win over hulk.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
It was moving so fast that it caused ripples across time for centuries. Two galaxies are sometimes millions of lightyears apart in distance, colliding with another galaxy in two hours? So far above lightspeed, its not even funny. The effect of those two galaxies nearly colliding nearly folded entire Hypertime.

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"Every possible universe at once."

Its so far above Hulk's feat that its not even funny.

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Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I also remember some of the GL Corps containing Ranx, whose detonation was enough to wipe out the entire Milky Way galaxy (so no chain reaction etc).

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That's really far above solar system level, and they didn't have some of the top named Lanterns helping them either (no Hal/Kyle/John/Guy).

That would place the GLC (minus those 4, and others who had been killed) when not at 100%, at abstract ++ levels, as they'd be 1000s of times above solar system level (which are skyfather levels).

Alternatively, we can scale down and say each GLC member is skyfather/solar system level on average, and when combined they can contain galaxy level blasts, which is abstract++ level.

The math does not lie. 3,600 Lanterns, 3,916 solar systems in the Milky Way.

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Originally posted by carver9
I don't get what the problem is. In DragonBall entry book, canon material, it was outright stated that Cell intentions was set on destroying the earth and then the Universe afterwards.

https://imgur.com/a/XqAuAhZ

I don't know why you all are stuck on this solar system ft. Yes, there are instances of characters performing fts outside of their power levels from time to time, but Cell consistently touted this type of power.

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Originally posted by carver9
Heck, even the android sensed enough power in Cell before going perfect capable of destroying the Universe...

https://ibb.co/NxKvtxv

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Originally posted by abhilegend
You can't read, can you?

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Originally posted by carver9
🤦🏿‍♂️... lol at you saying anyone can't read. How many dream Universe's did Superman destroy this weak?

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Originally posted by carver9
🤦🏿‍♂️... lol at you saying anyone can't read. How many dream Universe's did Superman destroy this weak?

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Originally posted by Astner
No he doesn't. He says it was the clash between the characters, which is exactly what the comics says.

What isn't specified is how much energy was contributed by Orion in this clash (or if it was even notable), and given that Orion had to escape the blast and was portrayed to be significantly weaker than the Golem throughout the story it's a noteworthy point of contention.


This speculation on your part. This is all we see from their initial fight.



If we had seen more of the initial confrontation there may have been more substance to your position. But as it stands it's flimsy and it shouldn't be at the heart of any argument.

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Originally posted by Philosophía

Put your hate for abhi aside for a moment and let's agree that if you change your mind [or I do], you [or I] will acknowledge it. I know the rest have an agenda, but I know I can talk to you. There's never been [or will be] bad blood between us, so we can go at this rationally. Maybe I, or you, missed something.

Agree?

Now, let's look at the issue. I will put this in chonological order.

1). Take a moment and, please, look at it carefully:

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a). the Solar System still existing 3 seconds before Hal/Kyle arrive as Orion/Golem are in a blast off in space [we see the blast off and the solar system specifically in panel 1]
b). we see the shockwave from their blast off in space extending and approaching the planet [panel 4/last panel]

At this point we have a few facts:
- the solar system is not destroyed
- Orion/Golem are involved in a blast off in space
- there's seconds before Hal/Kyle arrive

I'm sure you agree here.

Let's move on to the next scan:

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a). We see Graf [panel 1] feeling the destruction that is taking place on the last panel of the previous page
b). There are 2 seconds left panel 2
c). Orion and the Golem are standing in front of each other continuing their blast off [panel 3]
d). Through Graf's eyes you can see Golem and Orion still blasting each other as he mutters "I'm too late" as the shockwaves expand and take everything[panel 4]
e). 0 seconds left Hal and Kyle arrive.

Facts:
- Throughout this small time frame of seconds, Orion and the Golem are involved in a face to face blast off in space [we see the fight.
- In fact, for every second of this entire scene we see them face to face in a blast off, first through a wide picture of the solar system [not destroyed], then through a close up of them, then through Graf's eyes. This is happening in sequential seconds, in all of them us seeing the fight and destruction.
- we see the shockwaves approach the planets [we see the destruction]
- we have a timeframe [we get the seconds counter

And finally, Hal and Kyle arrive and we see what Graf saw was happening in those few seconds, which is that the solar system was destroyed:

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We then see Kyle/Hal after the solar system is destroyed looking in the distance as the fight still takes place..

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Only to hear a ping as Orion teleports from out of there engulfed in the energies of their fight:

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At this point he is running from the Omega Beams -- i.e. the one attack from the Golem that can truly kill him. [a weapon that he needs to charge]

It is made clear that the Omega Beams are the ones Orion fears:

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That is why you see him running -- he fought him off in a blast off [unfortunately for the solar system] until the Omega Beams were charged and then he got one-shotted.

This is quite clear just in case it wasn't, the writer hammers it over the head with Kyle telling Orion not have the blast off with Golem, as it destroyed the solar system last time:

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And to top it all of, we have the writer confirming what we already know: Orion and The Golem faced each-other, face to face, in a blast-off in space, in a specified timeframe, with specific solar-system destruction, specifically due to the shockwaves, until Hal/Kyle arrived and the charged Omega Beams hit Orion:

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So:
We see the fight [it's them literally standing face to face and trading blasts] through multiple viewpoints [far off, close-up, through Graf]
We see the timeframe [seconds]
We see the shockwaves approaching the planet, we see its destruction felt
We see the solar system go from not destroyed to destroyed, specifically by the shockwaves that are generated specifically by them slugfesting energy blasts
We see Hal/Kyle arriving and seeing the specific spot where Orion/Golem trade off hits, until Orion runs from the OBs.

Now, xJLx, can you honestly tell me that this is not a direct standstill power face off whose after shocks destroyed a solar system in seconds? That Orion in that face off where he stood face to face with the Golem, shown multiple times, until the solar system fell? That Orion stood there and wasn't treated as a bug until the Omega Beams came into place? This won't be conceding to abhi or any shit like that -- you're talking to me.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
More than the solar systems cell destroyed

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Originally posted by carver9
Kalibak or Mongul (or both together) vs this version of Goku. Who wins?