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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » RE: Aniken Skywalker/ Darth Vader ( See details)


RE: Aniken Skywalker/ Darth Vader ( See details)
Started by: ozz81

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ozz81
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Registered: Sep 2011
Location: Australia


ozz81 is online now!

RE: Aniken Skywalker/ Darth Vader ( See details)

Suppose Aniken defeated Obi wan and didnt lose his limbs \ and was in his human form etc would he have executed Sidious eventually etc ? And what will be his future plans ?

And what do you think would have been Sidiouses plans with Vader (in regards to the above ie If Aniken was in his human form and didnt lose to Obi etc) reckon he will have some sinister scheme against him ? What does Canon say about this ?

Old Post Oct 23rd, 2020 03:03 AM
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Scizard
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Registered: Dec 2019
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Based on TROS he probably would've taken over his body. I think Anakin would still be loyal to Palpatine like he is suited until he learns about Luke, so in that sense I think things would stay the same.

Old Post Oct 23rd, 2020 05:28 PM
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Darthadi
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Anakin would eventually surpass Palpatine and kill him. Palpatine himself was convinced of this as he told to Yoda. We know from ROTS that Anakin planed to overtrow Palpatine after he learned how to save Padme. And if Padme died Anakin would also not have any reason to listen to Palps anymore
The only reason he was loyal to Palpatine after he got put into the suit was out of necessity as he was no longer able to surpass him and beat him alone. We saw in the first issue of the Vader comics (Soule's run) that he hated Sidious and he even tried to attack him with the force, he was just not powerful enough to beat his master. Now it's debatable if Vader's limitation are a result of his injuries or psyhological factors (PTSD, depression), but what is clear is that his power growth post ROTS was slower than before and slower than Sheev's aparently. (this doesn't mean his actualised power is lesser compared to his pre suit self)
So yeah, Anakin would have turned on his master sooner or later. If Sheev can take over his body after Anakin kills him i don't know.

Old Post Oct 23rd, 2020 05:51 PM
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relentless1
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Registered: Aug 2014
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the ROTS video game shows Anakin killing Sidious right away after beating Obi Wan and while thats not canon Anakin tells Padme he plans to overthrow Sidious and Palpatine himself alludes to Yoda that Vader would surpass them both in power so yeah I think he'd try and kill Palpatine soon after killing Kenobi

Old Post Oct 26th, 2020 08:38 AM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scizard
Based on TROS he probably would've taken over his body. I think Anakin would still be loyal to Palpatine like he is suited until he learns about Luke, so in that sense I think things would stay the same.
If we're talking canon, then I agree. thumb up

Anakin had the potential to surpass Palpatine, but that's a level he could have never ascended to as Palpatine's apprentice, imo. Like he did with Vader, Palpatine would likely feed Anakin just enough knowledge/teachings to keep him subservient and wanting more, but not enough to allow Anakin to surpass him.

And if RotS Anakin tried to openly attack Palpatine after beating Kenobi(as per the stips of this thread), I feel like Palpatine would proceed to rape him with mid diff at most(this isn't Legends, where Anakin's power was wanked beyond belief.)

You also can't look at Palpatine's power as some stagnant thing either. The Star Wars Book makes it pretty clear that after the events of RotS, Palpatine essentially disappeared from public view and began gorging himself on all the esoteric Sith knowledge that he could get his hands on... And given the haxx potential of the Palpatine bloodline, that helps explain why he was able to maintain a seemingly vast gap in power between himself and Vader(who was > Anakin) over the years.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2020 01:09 PM
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Darthadi
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Why would Palpatine hoarding knowledge keep Anakin below him? Between AOTC and ROTS Anakin's growth is huge (just by comparing his performance against Dooku) even tho he didn't had any more knowledge than he did later as Vader. Anakin's pre suit growth was caused mostly by his enormous potential without the need to gain some huge amount of force knowledge.

I think that what happened on Mustafar certainly impacted Vader's future growth in some way. In ROTS, Sidious is certain that Anakin would surpass him and Yoda yet even in canon, Sidious expressed his dissapointment about what happened on Mustafar a few times in the comics.

Even more, the gap between Sidious and Vader seems to be bigger during the OT than in ROTS based on the last comic. This would mean that Sidious grew at a faster rate after ROTS, yet before ROTS it was the other way as Sheev himself admited he was going to be surpassed.

Last edited by Darthadi on Oct 26th, 2020 at 02:34 PM

Old Post Oct 26th, 2020 02:26 PM
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Total Warrior
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^^agreed


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2020 02:48 PM
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Galan007
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

Because the Palpatine bloodline's potential for growth is evidently in the same ballpark as the Skywalker bloodline(look at Rey.) So if Palpatine was hoarding/studying a vast amount of Sith knowledge for decadeS, while Vader was only given a small trickle here and there, the gap could really never be bridged, imo. Palpatine started off at a [much] higher level than Anakin, by all accounts had a similar (albeit slightly inferior) potential, and most importantly: had the means to retain that gap in power by way of incessant knowledge-hoarding, along with getting to pick and choose which tidbits he fed Vader.

Also, Palpatine never said *when* Anakin would surpass he and Yoda; just that he *could*. And while I obviously agree that Anakin could have been > Palpatine if his full potential had been realized, I don't think Palps would have ever allowed it. Everything in canon makes it pretty clear that Palpatine never wanted to be surpassed -- his endgame was to become the immortal god of the galaxy/universe.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 26th, 2020 at 02:54 PM

Old Post Oct 26th, 2020 02:49 PM
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Darthadi
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Well, i disagree that Palpatine's potential is even close to Anakin's. Rey's stupid growth was caused by the Dyad (she downloaded everything from Kylo). Anakin had Father level potential which is massively above Sheev's or any other character.

Sidious started at a higher level than Anakin but the gap widened after ROTS. It's hard to imagine that ROTS Sidious could to to a Dooku+ combatant what ESB Sheev did to Vader. My point is that Anakin before Mustafar had even less knowledge than after, yet his growth was massive enough for Palpatine to admit he would be surpassed while after Mustafar that was no longer possible as we saw in the recent comic. Anakin grew more in 3 years (while having kess knowledge) than he did in the next 20.

It's not clear if Sidious never wanting to be surpassed was a thing as early as ROTS. Or maybe he planned to take over Anakin's body somehow so he wasn't worried about being surpassed.
Even in legends Sheev's endgame was the same yet he tried to take both Anakin and Luke as apprentices.
Sidious's motives were never very clear, but he still searched for someone more powerful than him.

Old Post Oct 26th, 2020 03:14 PM
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Darthadi
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That being said we obviously have different opinions here so maybe it's beter if we agree to disagree for now

Old Post Oct 26th, 2020 03:21 PM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darthadi
Well, i disagree that Palpatine's potential is even close to Anakin's. Rey's stupid growth was caused by the Dyad (she downloaded everything from Kylo). Anakin had Father level potential which is massively above Sheev's or any other character.
The Dyad(ie. downloading Kylo's knowledge) helped account for Rey's growth in the days between TFA and TLJ, but I'm talking about her continued growth in the year between TLJ and RoS. Stupid as it is, the girl had massive potential because of her Palpatine heritage -- that potential is what made her such a mary sue(#TheForceIsFemale BS notwithstanding.)

Anakin would have been equal to the Father while on Mortis(ie. THE most powerful Force nexus in canon.) We have no clue how powerful he would have become within the mortal realm and away from a nexus that powerful. Even the Father himself, while undoubtedly powerful within the mortal realm, explicitly took his children to Mortis because it was the *only* place where he could control them. So clearly even his power while on Mortis was FAR beyond what it was in the mortal realm... But that's neither here nor there.

At the end of the day, all we really know about Anakin's potential is that he could have surpassed Palpatine/Yoda at *some* point, given the opportunity... Though you could argue that Vader may have still surpassed the level of RotS Palpatine and RotS Yoda by Rebels/ANH, but I digress. /shrug

Anyway, my only point is that based on what has been stated/implied in canon, the potential of the Palpatines seems to be in the same ballpark as the potential of the Skywalkers. Of course Skywalker potential is still greater, but not insurmountably so, imo.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darthadi
My point is that Anakin before Mustafar had even less knowledge than after, yet his growth was massive enough for Palpatine to admit he would be surpassed while after Mustafar that was no longer possible as we saw in the recent comic.
Anakin always had the potential to surpass Palpatine IF he could have ever reached his potential(not denying that)... But again, Palpatine would have logically never allowed Anakin/Vader to surpass him.

Even Lord Momin mused that Palpatine was keeping knowledge hidden from Vader, and hoarding it for himself(which we now know was true.) Hence why Palpatine's power continued growing exponentially in the time between RotS and RotJ, while Vader's growth was much more neutered.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darthadi
Anakin grew more in 3 years (while having kess knowledge) than he did in the next 20.
Dunno about that. Clearly Vader's power/skill grew tremendously after the events of RotS.

Even recent guidebooks have Yoda and Mace as the top two duelists in the Jedi Order as of RotS, while other guidebooks have Vader above Palpatine as a duelist. So based on that we can say that as a swordsman: Vader > Palpatine ~/> Yoda > Mace > Anakin.

Then you have other, far more esoteric showings, like Vader imprisoning GI's spirit in a temple, and using it as his personal guard/plaything. And of course, Vader's displays of more basic abilities(like TK) absolutely blow Anakin's out of the water.

tl;dr
Vader's power increased significantly after RotS... But Palpatine's power simply increased [a lot] more, for reasons mentioned above.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darthadi
It's not clear if Sidious never wanting to be surpassed was a thing as early as ROTS. Or maybe he planned to take over Anakin's body somehow so he wasn't worried about being surpassed.
Even in legends Sheev's endgame was the same yet he tried to take both Anakin and Luke as apprentices.
Sidious's motives were never very clear, but he still searched for someone more powerful than him.
The RoS novel implies that Palpatine tried(and failed) to form a Dyad with Anakin, and planned to transfer his essence into Luke. That could very well be the [retroactive] reason why he wanted them as apprentices.

As mentioned, canon indicates that Palpatine never really planned on being surpassed/replaced by an apprentice at all.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darthadi
That being said we obviously have different opinions here so maybe it's beter if we agree to disagree for now
Didn't see this until after.

Fair enough. thumb up


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I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Old Post Oct 26th, 2020 05:25 PM
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Zenwolf
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Registered: Dec 2013
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I don't think I'll ever get over how ridiculous this Dyad nonsense is.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2020 09:31 PM
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