As we discussed on the previous pages, though we don't know when Sidious was able to tap into the power of his predecessors, the novelization and website text make it clear that this is not a natural enhancement of Sheev's and merely a reservoir he can consciously, deliberately tap into.
If by TROS Sheev you mean the undead zombie we see for most of the film, Azronger made an extremely compelling case using substantial evidence to indicate that TROS Sheev is not more powerful than ROTJ Sheev... until the end of the movie.
Either way, though, what does this have to do with Sheev and Snoke? Snoke was created decades before TROS based on the available evidence and yet was still unable to serve as Sheev's meatsuit even then.
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Regardless of how he actively used the power he had on hand, Sidious still was a "vessel" for all the Siths power. Pretty sure that quote was posted here.
So I still think we have to figure out when he became that vessel. Because its hard for me to think that ROS Sidious wouldn't have been more powerful then he was in ROTJ if he only started housing all those spirits and might after the latter.
Right, but he became that "vessel for all the Sith's power" during his final clash with Rey, if you look at that quote.
I'd encourage you to revisit Azronger's post, but the tl;dr of it is:
Per The Star Wars Book, Sheev's Sith Eternal cultists were waiting for his "restoration to full power," indicating that he was not at full power. That's a fact that can't be ignored.
Per multiple other sources, the dyad restored Sheev's body. That's also a fact that can't be ignored.
Per TROS novelization and the StarWars.com website, Sheev was able to consciously borrow the power of all the Sith, though the jury's still out over whether there were literal Sith spirits involved.
The only interpretation that reconciles all these facts is that [1] undead!Sheev was weaker than his previous iteration (thus the "restore to full power" quote from the Star Wars Book), likely because he couldn't manifest his full power through a rotting corpse, which is why he needed [2] the power of the dyad to restore his body. Then, in the final clash with Rey, [3] he manifests the power of all the Sith before him whereas she does the same with all the Jedi.
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I'll have to go back through the novel but isn't it alluded to that Sidious was wielding all the Siths power before the dyad also? Because the SWBook only stated that the dyad renewed Sidious's body. It doesn't note that his body had to be renewed to act as a vessel in the first place.
So I feel like the raw power was still present in his undead body (just as it would have been if he body hopped) but maybe he couldn't use all of that power until he healed. Which means that if he hopped into an inferior clone he would have still had the same problem- you've got the power, but you can't access it in a shit vessel.
And I'm also pretty sure the novel states that dyad Sidious had absorbed the powers of Rey and Ben and added that to his own. Pretty sure it's Rey who makes that claim. Dunno if it still holds up though.
Seems like Palpatine believed Rey would be a perfect vessel for all the sith due to sharing his potential. So perhaps Sidious was able to draw on their power as of the OT, or how else would he come to the conclusion that Rey would be able to? However, it does seem like a power he has to consciously draw on, similar to how Anakin had to focus the power of Mortis through his body to control The Son and The Daughter. Both cases indicate a very unique status among all force users.
Either way, Palpatine's undead body was said to not be enough to hold the power that was carried over from his original body, which suggests he's weaker in his undead form. Azronger gave a quote that confirms he is weaker in his undead form. So if Snoke is confirmed to be weaker than undead Sheev, then that means he is weaker than OT Sheev. Right?
So why would the lack of detail regarding "all the sith" bit keep you from accepting that Snoke was never on par with ROTJ Palpatine?
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Last edited by Dominis on Jan 13th, 2021 at 08:47 PM
Nothing suggest that undead Palpatine was less powerful than ROTJ Palpatine though. Just because the Palpatine clone was too weak to contain Palpatine’s consciousness doesn’t mean he’s less powerful. The body was decaying as a result of containing Palpatine’s immense power. So although the clone body is weak, the body is literally still containing the same power.
The quote Azronger provided saying he restored his full power doesn’t contradict this. “Full power” could have different meanings, it doesn’t necessarily mean his connection to the force was brought back to full power. If your body is a rotting mess then you’re obviously not at full power. So by restoring his body he was back at full power.
Last edited by xPRIMEx on Jan 13th, 2021 at 09:23 PM
Agreed. Prime, you're slipping back down the embankment of unenlightenment. Steady yourself, lean forward, and take our hands.
Azronger's quote explains Sheev's acolytes await "his restoration to full power." This means he's not at full power if they need to "wait" for him to be "restored" to full power. Note the phrase doesn't say "his restoration to full health." His power is diminished. That may be a product of his weakened body being unable to channel his power rather than the power itself being diminished, but it ultimately comes to the same conclusion: undead Sheev is unable to manifest the same level of power as his Endor self for one reason or another.
Jan 13th, 2021 06:13 PM
