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Fixing Law Enforcement's Racial Injustice Problem
Started by: Jmanghan

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Old Man Whirly!
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Here is a question for those who pointed out about the mainly black youths imprisoned for (minor) cannabis possession etc. What will happen with cannabis becoming legal etc in more states to those serving time.
That's a really good question actually.

Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 12:27 PM
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Jmanghan
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Uh... Release them... Lol.


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Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 12:41 PM
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Old Man Whirly!
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh... Release them... Lol.
Let's hope.

Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 12:59 PM
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Astner
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Racism is a developed behavior and not an inborn trait. Officers usually aren't racists when they join the Force, but tend to develop racism in response to the clientele they deal with, or more specifically: in response to the treatment by subgroup of that clientele.

This subgroup tend to be uncooperative and not follow proper procedures, while at the same time hurling mixture racial slurs and accusations of racism at officers for doing their job. After a while an officer will become a lot less patient with this subgroup.

The solution has to be worked on at both fronts. Officers have to be taught to not discriminate against this subgroup, and this subgroup has to be taught to cooperate with officers.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh... Release them... Lol.

That will not happen because laws and the lifting of laws are not applied retroactively.

If it becomes illegal to eat chocolate tomorrow you can't be prosecuted for eating a Hershey's bar today, because yesterday it wasn't a crime.

Likewise, if you smoked cannabis yesterday when it was a crime, it doesn't matter if the law is lifted today, because you smoked it when it was illegal.

Last edited by Astner on Jan 16th, 2021 at 01:10 PM

Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 01:02 PM
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Old Man Whirly!
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Astner
Racism is a developed behavior and not an inborn trait.
thumb up The rest of your post is spot on too but this is actually a Scientific fact for anyone who understands the Science behind it. The Amygdala response shows it is learned. Interestingly as I have banged on about on this board most credible Scientists due to genetic diversity consider Race a social construct.

Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 01:07 PM
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Astner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Astner
The solution has to be worked on at both fronts. Officers have to be taught to not discriminate against this subgroup, and this subgroup has to be taught to cooperate with officers.

There's an additional problem when it comes to the Justice System in the U.S. and law enforcement, and that's that officers work with prosecutors and against lawyers, hence your attorney's advice to "not tell the police anything and to tell them (the police) to refer to them (the lawyer) for answers."

So proper cooperation isn't necessarily intuitive. Because you need to be aware of what to say and what not to say, or else you could end up with a fine or in prison.

This wouldn't be an issue if the stupidity of the masses in the U.S. didn't boarder on parody, who want simple solutions to a complex procedure, which if implemented would destroy the legal certainty of that procedure.

Last edited by Astner on Jan 16th, 2021 at 01:28 PM

Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 01:22 PM
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truejedi
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Does anyone in America, even Trumpers, deny that their coup was met with less violence from law enforcement than BLM marches this summer?

Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 05:14 PM
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Jmanghan
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Astner
That will not happen because laws and the lifting of laws are not applied retroactively.

If it becomes illegal to eat chocolate tomorrow you can't be prosecuted for eating a Hershey's bar today, because yesterday it wasn't a crime.

Likewise, if you smoked cannabis yesterday when it was a crime, it doesn't matter if the law is lifted today, because you smoked it when it was illegal.


That's REALLY ****ing stupid.


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Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 06:43 PM
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Astner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
That's REALLY ****ing stupid.

No. It needs to be case to enforce legal certainty. You're not punished for smoking cannabis, you're punished for breaking the law that's put in place to prevent you from smoking cannabis.

That's also why I brought up retroactive enforcement of newly passed laws, which also isn't allowed. Laws only apply after they've passed by Congress, Parliament, or whatever your country's legislative institution is called.

Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 08:01 PM
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truejedi
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https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/15/us/p...trnd/index.html

Good read, and how anyone watching felt.

Old Post Jan 16th, 2021 09:59 PM
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Artol
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Here is a question for those who pointed out about the mainly black youths imprisoned for (minor) cannabis possession etc. What will happen with cannabis becoming legal etc in more states to those serving time.

It depends really, I would advocate that in case of legalization you also put an amnesty for those convicted of the crime in the past. (at least as long as it was for possession, though personally I would even give amnesty to those dealing it)

Old Post Jan 17th, 2021 02:33 AM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh yeah, Cocaine will kill you within a few years if you use it like every other day, lmfao.

Nope. You can easily find celebrity stories of similar situations, like Dennis Quaid or Demi Lovato or somesuch. There's also the stories of former addicts you can find pretty easily online. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytVxYTavE1U, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bU3Rnbve9g, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DJN387AKuQ.

There's a myriad of factors at play. How was it administered? How much? Are other substances being used with it? People can also develop a tolerance to it, and sometimes try to take higher, possibly lethal doses in response. It's more complicated than "do drugs and die."

Obviously, I'm not saying go grab a crack pipe; however, we can acknowledge the horrors of addiction while still allowing for a nuanced view of recreational use. We accept recreational drinking, but scoff when other substances are brought up. Which is strange anyway, since alcohol is "worse" than many of the substances we consider hard(LSD or Psilocybin mushrooms, for example).

Last edited by StyleTime on Jan 18th, 2021 at 07:38 AM

Old Post Jan 18th, 2021 07:25 AM
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Old Man Whirly!
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime
Nope. You can easily find celebrity stories of similar situations, like Dennis Quaid or Demi Lovato or somesuch. There's also the stories of former addicts you can find pretty easily online. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytVxYTavE1U, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bU3Rnbve9g, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DJN387AKuQ.

There's a myriad of factors at play. How was it administered? How much? Are other substances being used with it? People can also develop a tolerance to it, and sometimes try to take higher, possibly lethal doses in response. It's more complicated than "do drugs and die."

Obviously, I'm not saying go grab a crack pipe; however, we can acknowledge the horrors of addiction while still allowing for a nuanced view of recreational use. We already do it for alcohol, but throw it out the window for other substances for some reason. Which is strange anyway, since alcohol is "worse" than many of the substances we consider hard(LSD or Psilocybin mushrooms, for example).
I am a prime example of cocaine not killing you, I used it for years.

Old Post Jan 18th, 2021 07:30 AM
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StyleTime
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I am a prime example of cocaine not killing you, I used it for years.

thumb up

Must have been expensive AF though.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Artol
It depends really, I would advocate that in case of legalization you also put an amnesty for those convicted of the crime in the past. (at least as long as it was for possession, though personally I would even give amnesty to those dealing it)

thumb up

Policy measures, like amnesty, can be implemented to help people currently serving time for newly legalized actions. Prisoners are also often able to petition for reduced sentences/release in that situation.

Some countries even allow retroactive application of the new law, if the new law is beneficial to the one serving time. I wish we'd adopt that tbh. It just makes sense, since we're admitting the law was ridiculous to begin with.

Last edited by StyleTime on Jan 19th, 2021 at 04:31 PM

Old Post Jan 19th, 2021 04:24 PM
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IvoryCoast
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by StyleTime
thumb up

Must have been expensive AF though.

thumb up

Policy measures, like amnesty, can be implemented to help people currently serving time for newly legalized actions. Prisoners are also often able to petition for reduced sentences/release in that situation.

Some countries even allow retroactive application of the new law, if the new law is beneficial to the one serving time. I wish we'd adopt that tbh.
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Old Post Jan 19th, 2021 04:27 PM
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Adam_PoE
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MAGA Cop Suspended for White Power Gesture

A City of Miami Police officer is under investigation because of what he was doing in a photo taken while on duty. The picture in question was taken Friday after Miami police made a big gun bust, but now top department brass are taking a closer look.

A commander posted the photo on Twitter, and someone noticed the officer at the far end of the picture flashing white power hand signals. That man is Miami Police Officer Daniel Ubeda. The tweet was deleted less than 48 hours after it was posted. The commander who posted it also made his account private.

Officer Ubeda is the same Miami officer who went to vote last fall while wearing a Trump face covering. He was eventually reprimanded for political messaging while in uniform.


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Adam_PoE
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Hack Reveals NYPD Members of Oath Keepers

New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio's office said it will scrutinize NYPD ranks following a WNYC/Gothamist investigation of online records that appears to tie several New York law enforcement officers and public officials—including at least two active members of the NYPD—to a far-right, anti-government militia.

The mayor's investigation comes after an anonymous hacker released what it claims are emails and membership data from the Oath Keepers, an extremist militia group that had a notable presence at the storming of the U.S. Capitol on January 6th.

One NYPD sergeant, who is listed online as being active in the department's Firearms and Tactics Session, was named in the data dump. The sergeant answered a phone number posted in the membership data and acknowledged he was an NYPD officer when asked whether he was the person in question. He declined to comment on whether or not he is a member of the militia organization, and referred WNYC/Gothamist to the NYPD's press office.


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Old Post Oct 1st, 2021 04:16 AM
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Bashar Teg
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"drain the swamp" indeed. should we thank trump for ushering in real police reform by insping literally every closet-fascist in the country to goosestep about online?


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Old Post Oct 1st, 2021 12:14 PM
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Adam_PoE
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STUDY: 17K Killings by Cops Not Tracked in Fed Data

More than half of police killings in the U.S. are not reported in official government data, and black Americans are most likely to experience fatal police violence, according to a new study released Thursday. An estimated 55% of deaths from police violence from 1980 to 2018 were misclassified or unreported in official vital statistics reports, according to the peer-reviewed study by a group of more than 90 collaborators in The Lancet.

Previous studies have found similar rates of underreporting, but the new paper is one of the longest study periods to date. Researchers estimated official government data did not report 17,100 deaths from police violence out of 30,800 total deaths during the nearly 40-year period, speculating the gap is a result of a mixture of clerical errors and more insidious motivations.


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Old Post Oct 1st, 2021 08:25 PM
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Old Man Whirly!
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
More than half of police killings in the U.S. are not reported in official government data, and black Americans are most likely to experience fatal police violence, according to a new study released Thursday. An estimated 55% of deaths from police violence from 1980 to 2018 were misclassified or unreported in official vital statistics reports, according to the peer-reviewed study by a group of more than 90 collaborators in The Lancet.

Previous studies have found similar rates of underreporting, but the new paper is one of the longest study periods to date. Researchers estimated official government data did not report 17,100 deaths from police violence out of 30,800 total deaths during the nearly 40-year period, speculating the gap is a result of a mixture of clerical errors and more insidious motivations.
it's criminal in itself to be honest

Old Post Oct 1st, 2021 08:53 PM
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