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Aquaman vs Big Barda
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EcstaticGrace
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I donít argue lows but Iím not scaling Barda to Superman better showings either.. itís just dumb as hell. Unless thereís a valid reason to scale something in her favor like if the same writer who had her knock out Superman has Superman rank something impressive to validate why Barda knocking him out was impressive.

Thereís Toyman constructs that have knocked out Superman among other rogues who should be fodder to a well written Superman. Not saying Barda is weak I just donít buy into the hype and Iíve yet to see scans of her using the versatility she apparently has

Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 01:43 AM
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Delta1938
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Just whined and ignored the massive errors you made. Concessions accepted.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 05:08 AM
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EcstaticGrace
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Tank* not rank

Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 05:12 AM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
How is using scraps from Cyborg as your ligaments a Amped Aquaman? Aquaman is stronger than Cyborg. That future Aquaman was amped sure but it wasnít by physicals.

Nowhere did I argue Aquaman was peers to Superman. My issue is using Superman to argue Barda is above Aquaman or that her damage output is above what Aquaman can take. When in reality if it came down to it Beatboks and probably anyone else here would struggle to actually put that blast at an actual level. Did Barda blast Superman with another ďGas station level blastĒ or are we just assuming it was planetary and beyond just because it was Superman. Thatís one of my issues with the arguments for her. Because thatís some faulty scaling I could easily bring up the fact Aquamanís trident pierced through an amped Kryptonian all the same which was Rao.

No one here was arguing Aquaman was peers to Superman. I swear to god you and the other guy like to jump into any and every thread and bring up Superman or lurk in case any potential mention in any way you misinterpret (note misinterpret cause you donít read right) to jump in and start rambling in lengthy as post. No way in hell am I sitting through and reading the other guys postÖ

Future Aquaman overpowered Hunter Prince who overpowered Wonder Woman and was about to kill her.

(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)

Hunter Prince vs Diana

(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)

There's no chance current Aquaman is that strong.

Its like using Catman slicing up Aquaman to argue in a thread. Barda koing Superman means she can knock out Aquaman. Not to mention she staggered Superman when he was beating up entire Justice League.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 05:37 AM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I donít argue lows but Iím not scaling Barda to Superman better showings either.. itís just dumb as hell. Unless thereís a valid reason to scale something in her favor like if the same writer who had her knock out Superman has Superman rank something impressive to validate why Barda knocking him out was impressive.

Thereís Toyman constructs that have knocked out Superman among other rogues who should be fodder to a well written Superman. Not saying Barda is weak I just donít buy into the hype and Iíve yet to see scans of her using the versatility she apparently has

Byrne Superman was still more powerful than any Aquaman we have seen.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 05:41 AM
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Delta1938
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Tank* not rank


If you think I meant typos, I don't criticize over an occasional typo.

I don't care whether scans for phasing were given or not, it's not a justification. Why did you bring up a non canon example of Aquaman countering phasing?

Why after being corrected on Darkseid getting mugged did you ignore it? That and the above makes me think you knew the context.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 05:46 AM
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beatboks
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Hmm ecstatoicgrace says

quote:
Like hell you did. Your clearly incapable of reading if you really think you provided feats for what I asked.

quote:
Show me Barda phasing? Thatís what I asked show feats for what you claim sheíd do in combat with either her mother Box or megarod


He says this in response to posts where I said

quote:
I showed feats for everything I claimed except phasing or things well known like gravity manip on page 1. Which is exactly why I never pushed phasing as an option


And after posts where I said
quote:
Honestly DS, I only recall her phasing twice, maybe 3 times. It's not something she is all that likely to use. It's just another option she has available, another arrow in the quiver as it were. Shes also never to my recall used gravity manip offensively. She's used it to fly and levitate aonthers, but it's there as an option


Yet I have a problem reading??

1. I never said she would use it in a fight only that she could, it was an option. I think it came up when some BS raised about Arthur using the trident to break a force field where I said it was one of the options she would have after several others. Never mind the no limits fallacy of the trident breaking a FF with no feats to support (oh that's right it's me that doesn't show evidence, not ecstaticgrace) because physical durability =/= force fields (one is piecing a hard barrier the other is penetrative a countering force). Ignore the fact that it was an option I listed after BFshifting (as BFR isn't allowed) the trident a few hundred feet away, (the most obvious thing she would do since she often BFRs and of its barred porting within the battlefield would be an obvious tactic she employs in character), and after using gravity manip to deal with it (here it comes all the BS of where are the showings ignoring the fact I've already stated she's never to my knowledge used that offensively but only to fly and to levitate others, well levitating a trident away from its owner is an example of it also and if pushed I'm pretty sure she once levitated Lashina's lash out of her reach a one time only feat) and that IIRC I said she could either phase thru or simply port out of its way. Given it was an option I offered after several others I've offered feats of and the porting one is a common use of the MR. Given that I've stated several times it's not often used and not likely, and that I offered feats for all the often used options that I presented ahead of it. But no I get called out for not supporting what I said, but the only thing I didn't support I've stared a few times isn't likely. I'm totally confused and bewildered. Pot kettle

I also like how the guy who accuses others of false scaling then goes off and false scales. The whole question is Orion >> than Barda is such a joke. Last I checked Orion has a mother box which means he has access to gear with the same capability as Barda. So what differentiates them is their physicals. Since he's stronger, faster and more durable of course he's above her.

Did the fact that I've said from the outset that Arthur wins in a pure hand to hand fight not demonstrate that I agree he'd above her physically? I mean he's stronger and has greater physical durability, speednis arguable but also on his side. The only advantage she has in pure H2H is greater skill and its not enough to compensate for the shortcomings.

Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 10:32 AM
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cdtm
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Darksaint, I believe "Time and Time Again"


When Superman survives being at the center of a collapsing Sun Eater (Thry eat stars and even Validus was scared to be inside one.


Than there's the JLA story where Starbreaker KO's him with a super nova in a bubble.

Or that time the eradicator dragged him to the sun and dropped him in, before sun dipping was a viable amp, and it hurt him like anyone else.



Plenty of examples to choose from in the era well beyond continental level.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 01:27 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Byrne Superman was still more powerful than any Aquaman we have seen.


In every way.

I still like the bloodthirst feat (Or whoever the dime store Apocalypse clone was), where he gets caught in a time dilation ray where days are passing in moments from his perspective, and he keeps ramping up his speed until he can catch him.


I bet he exceeded Wally West speed by miles, I wish there were calcs to how fast he was there.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 01:33 PM
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EcstaticGrace
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Future Aquaman overpowered Hunter Prince who overpowered Wonder Woman and was about to kill her.

(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)

Hunter Prince vs Diana

(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)

There's no chance current Aquaman is that strong.

Its like using Catman slicing up Aquaman to argue in a thread. Barda koing Superman means she can knock out Aquaman. Not to mention she staggered Superman when he was beating up entire Justice League.



You completely lost me nowÖ howíd future Aquaman overpower Hunter when they didnít even grapple? They traded swings and Aquaman was just more skilled. I donít get how you interpret that as Aquaman being physically stronger than Hunter Prince.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/up...a4d5cd1a99.jpeg

I definitely donít understand how you interpreted Hunter being stronger than Wonder Woman when Diana actually was shown to overpower him. Hunter tackled and unsuspected Wonder Woman and then ended up restrained by DianaÖ

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/up...9f38b6d35c.jpeg

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/up...2c213ea085.jpeg


And New52 Aquaman has matched and has also beaten Wonder Woman in grapples as well.. so its really not the best point to bring up.

Here he breaks out of her Headlock
https://m.imgur.com/qsahV1s

And in Throne of Atlantis he charged and expecting Wonder Woman and sent her into a ship. With her retaliating by punching him.

I still donít get how you came to the conclusion That Future Borg Aquaman is physically stronger than the main continuity one. Especially when those ligaments and a lot of stuff on him were added to help him survive not to boost his physical stats. I agree heís more powerful but it isnít by physicals.


Gail Simone doesnít like Aquaman. I take that Catman showing as a lowend by a writer who shouldnít even pen the character. It happens.

Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 02:45 PM
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EcstaticGrace
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Not to mention Diana was fighting back said Darkness while being possessed. We legit see her pages prior overpowering Hunter who wanted to kill her.

Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 02:46 PM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

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Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
You completely lost me nowÖ howíd future Aquaman overpower Hunter when they didnít even grapple? They traded swings and Aquaman was just more skilled. I donít get how you interpret that as Aquaman being physically stronger than Hunter Prince.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/up...a4d5cd1a99.jpeg

I definitely donít understand how you interpreted Hunter being stronger than Wonder Woman when Diana actually was shown to overpower him. Hunter tackled and unsuspected Wonder Woman and then ended up restrained by DianaÖ

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/up...9f38b6d35c.jpeg

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/up...2c213ea085.jpeg


And New52 Aquaman has matched and has also beaten Wonder Woman in grapples as well.. so its really not the best point to bring up.

Here he breaks out of her Headlock
https://m.imgur.com/qsahV1s

And in Throne of Atlantis he charged and expecting Wonder Woman and sent her into a ship. With her retaliating by punching him.

I still donít get how you came to the conclusion That Future Borg Aquaman is physically stronger than the main continuity one. Especially when those ligaments and a lot of stuff on him were added to help him survive not to boost his physical stats. I agree heís more powerful but it isnít by physicals.


Gail Simone doesnít like Aquaman. I take that Catman showing as a lowend by a writer who shouldnít even pen the character. It happens.

Future Aquaman had hunter prince on his knees in one hit, Prince was about to kill Diana.

EcstaticGrace : well, that's just skill innit?

Aquaman isn't strong enough to almost kill Diana. Yeah, because we are removing showings because a writer doesn't likes the character.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 04:57 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Future Aquaman had hunter prince on his knees in one hit, Prince was about to kill Diana.

EcstaticGrace : well, that's just skill innit?

Aquaman isn't strong enough to almost kill Diana. Yeah, because we are removing showings because a writer doesn't likes the character.


A lot of writers have Aquaman hold his own against heavy hitters though.


Ever since Byrne made a point with Aquaman holding off Dreadnaut and Psi Phon with Supermans powers, if not before that.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 05:11 PM
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EcstaticGrace
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Future Aquaman had hunter prince on his knees in one hit, Prince was about to kill Diana.

EcstaticGrace : well, that's just skill innit?

Aquaman isn't strong enough to almost kill Diana. Yeah, because we are removing showings because a writer doesn't likes the character.


Thatís not outmuscling someone though, nothing future Aquaman did physically was out of the capabilities of his present day self.

Prince didnít physically overpower Diana either though and was about to use a weapon to kill her. I donít get how any of that comes off as Hunter being stronger than Diana or Future Borg Aquaman being stronger than Hunter to you. How do you come to the conclusion one character is stronger based off Fisticuffs.

Iím not saying the Catman instance doesnít exist I just take it with a grain of salt. As much as Iíd imagine WW fans do with Christopher Priest having Wonder Woman almost die due to a ricocheted bullet

Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 05:47 PM
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EcstaticGrace
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
A lot of writers have Aquaman hold his own against heavy hitters though.


Ever since Byrne made a point with Aquaman holding off Dreadnaut and Psi Phon with Supermans powers, if not before that.


During Panic in the Sky, Aquaman was claiming he was fighting invaders almost as strong as Superman himself. Could of just been a statement and nothing else but Jurgens put it out there.

Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 05:48 PM
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DarkSaint85
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So was Batman, just saying....


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 06:50 PM
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Delta1938
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
A lot of writers have Aquaman hold his own against heavy hitters though.


Ever since Byrne made a point with Aquaman holding off Dreadnaut and Psi Phon with Supermans powers, if not before that.


For those unfamiliar, we were initially presented with Psi-Phon taking/transfering powers from someone and giving them to Dreadnaught. We later find out it's actually Psi-Phon telepathically disables powers and Dreadnaught duplicates powers.

When Superman faces them again in AOS #469, and resists Psi-Phon's telepathy, well Dreadnaught only accomplishes anything with a sucker punch. After that it was just embarrassing.

Here's the fight with Aquaman.

https://bit.ly/3zkf68e

https://bit.ly/3Ci6hO2

https://bit.ly/3tMsPna

Here's Superman in AOS #469.

https://bit.ly/3ziJSOU

https://bit.ly/3hJFfaC

https://bit.ly/3tRrhYQ. (Stilt is gonna have a field day with that one)

https://bit.ly/3i2wRmT

https://bit.ly/2Za1lfZ

https://bit.ly/3ly5YrD

https://bit.ly/3kkTXGJ

https://bit.ly/2XzyD7P

In addition to this, we have Clark beating up Dreadnaught when he was duplicating his powers plus Elongated Man/Aquaman/Martian Manhunter/Captain Marvel. But it's unclear if the force field belt was the sole reason, was part of it, or just an excuse for why Clark Kent was beating someone with the stacked power of 5 superheros. Plus there's Captain Marvel's fight with Dreadnaught before his powers were disabled and copied. Basically, Dreadnaught doesn't look like he was as powerful as those he copied.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 10:19 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Delta1938
For those unfamiliar, we were initially presented with Psi-Phon taking/transfering powers from someone and giving them to Dreadnaught. We later find out it's actually Psi-Phon telepathically disables powers and Dreadnaught duplicates powers.

When Superman faces them again in AOS #469, and resists Psi-Phon's telepathy, well Dreadnaught only accomplishes anything with a sucker punch. After that it was just embarrassing.

Here's the fight with Aquaman.

https://bit.ly/3zkf68e

https://bit.ly/3Ci6hO2

https://bit.ly/3tMsPna

Here's Superman in AOS #469.

https://bit.ly/3ziJSOU

https://bit.ly/3hJFfaC

https://bit.ly/3tRrhYQ. (Stilt is gonna have a field day with that one)

https://bit.ly/3i2wRmT

https://bit.ly/2Za1lfZ

https://bit.ly/3ly5YrD

https://bit.ly/3kkTXGJ

https://bit.ly/2XzyD7P

In addition to this, we have Clark beating up Dreadnaught when he was duplicating his powers plus Elongated Man/Aquaman/Martian Manhunter/Captain Marvel. But it's unclear if the force field belt was the sole reason, was part of it, or just an excuse for why Clark Kent was beating someone with the stacked power of 5 superheros. Plus there's Captain Marvel's fight with Dreadnaught before his powers were disabled and copied. Basically, Dreadnaught doesn't look like he was as powerful as those he copied.



Yeah, the Clark Kent scene was unclear.


I'd guess it was a combination of force feeding him and his powers shorting out, plus the force field amping him, only explanation that makes sense. And is essentially what Clark explained.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 10:24 PM
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Delta1938
True King of House of El

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, the Clark Kent scene was unclear.


I'd guess it was a combination of force feeding him and his powers shorting out, plus the force field amping him, only explanation that makes sense. And is essentially what Clark explained.


It was Psi-Phon suffering on "overload." At least it didn't seem like Dreadnaught was hurt by it. Psi-Phon was hurting even before disabling Cap's powers.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 10:29 PM
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cdtm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Delta1938
It was Psi-Phon suffering on "overload." At least it didn't seem like Dreadnaught was hurt by it. Psi-Phon was hurting even before disabling Cap's powers.


Yeah, you're right.

Just trying to avoid the inevitable "Non feat for Aquaman because clearly imperfect weak arsed powers" line.


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Old Post Sep 17th, 2021 10:58 PM
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