I think part of the problem here is that in comics, durability and strength usually go hand in hand. It's rare when we have one without the other, and when it does happen the occurrences are pretty extreme (Brit, Butterball), or BS magic is involved (pressure points, like Luke Cage and BP).
So when someone get hurt (as in the case of Hunter Prince or whatever), it's usually the case that the person doing the hurting is stronger and more durable, even if they don't have pure lifting feats for comparison.
You do get the mention of Darkseid was in response to Beatboks saying any version of Superman would beat Aquaman to justify his Barda scaling. Reason I brought up Darkseid and how most would probably claim the same for him so by the same logic muggers should scale above Aquaman… but go whatever direction you want with it, here you go 🥇 congrats man.
In all honestly though I didn’t know the mugger thing wasn’t cannon. But that wasn’t my point regardless.
The issue there is the scaling was used to claim Aquaborg > Wonder Woman. And in turn somehow by Abhi I’m sure this was the intent for it. Superman > Aquaborg > Wonder Woman by Ahbi’s scaling.
Not that I disagree with the idea Superman is stronger than either. But I don’t think there’s any indication Aquaborg was stronger than his present day self. He was more powerful because of the equipment he came by in a more Prometheus/Batman with prep type way. But he was legit using Cyborg’s for parts to survive not to enhance his physicals. I’m not claiming he was physically weaker than main Aquaman either because I don’t think there’s any statement in the arc that inferred that. But it works both ways and logically Aquaman is physically stronger than Cyborg by feats and showings.
Perception based I guess. There could be a difference given there was different factors sure. I’d just argue the fact that the writer made a deal of it for a reason, showed the impact of said attack issues prior for a build up, had the character reference the fact he was planning to destroy Atlantis again because “his dream was dead” and there’s no practical reason for Atlan to reduce his attack given said dream was dead. There’s no suggestion he was physically weaker or stronger either.
It was submerged compared to the original instance which could make a difference, it was a older “undead” Atlan which could make a difference, and it was a smaller Atlantis at this point since it use to be 7 kingdoms and now it’s 1. But again it’s basically arguing what’s shown vs what you believe if you bring up those factors despite the writer not really making a point of them. Personally given it’s the one feat Aquaman has like it I don’t really stress on it too much. I just think it helps validate claims like where he’s being suggested as one of the strongest people on the planet.
Given Mera can do stuff like hold back a global flood and Aquaman survived a outburst from her albeit being unconscious and losing his memory. I don’t think him being somewhere inbetween continental-continental + is outlandish.
I provided 2 feats for the blast of Barda's MR not just one.
You only dismiss the Superman feat because of failed (proven by others shown feat) power equating for Superman's level of the era. You haven't said anything to address the durability level of Matrix supergirl.
As I've shown she has tanked the heat vision of pre crisis Supergirl and has scaled physically to her. Unlike Superman she doesn't have low showings to bring her durability ranking down
Both the Matrix and Superman incident were written by the Sam writter less than a dozen issues apart in Action comics. The fact that Mateix was one shot ans Superman tool 2 shots before falling is clear evidence of where said writer places Superman's durability.
You've hung everything aledgedly invalidating scaling by referencing a single feat of Superman succumbing to a gas station explosion that its already been explained to you by Delta has context and now by PR that it isn't even the era in question.
I could just as easily low ball Arthur by the time he was put down by Hawkman (who at best has 15 ton strength, and 20 ton striking with just his mace and not the claw of Horus), or his hand eaten off by piranha, or him being nested and dropped by bloodsport.
I haven't because I don't lowball. I apply an average of all feats in scaling, and those are all stupid lows that should be ignored.
As I've already said since said writer showed Superman more durable than Matrix the two feats validate the SupermN feat as well above any low. Just continue to fire off the same repeated failed arguments that have been shot to pieces. For someone accusing someone of not offering proof at least mine has been canon and in context
Well what's your interpretation of "any version" of Superman? If he meant that literally(any time Superman was weakened or powerless, other media) I wouldn't agree. I usually think of canon or "main canon" versions. If he meant any era of Post-CRISIS baring being weakened? Yes, I would put Pre-DOS above Aquaman. You citing just one example even taken at face value doesn't outweigh a whole lot more other showings. And I'm only going by comics published before Superman's first power up. Comics published after but take place before have big feats too. Like, I gave an example bigger than continent level and cited others bigger(that I can post if I go looking, don't have on hand).
Not only was Darkseid getting mugged not canon, he lost his powers, or sure seemed to. I mean he's using a crowbar to break into the store just before he got mugged.
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You say you didn't know it was canon. You also obviously didn't know the context. So no, even if it were canon, muggers beating a powerless Darkseid wouldn't beat Aquaman, unless he also was powerless. Or Stilt sucked someone off to write it.
But you saying that wasn't your point.....your point just utterly fails when you don't know what actually happened in the example you're arguing.
You argued Morrison didn't write a weak Orion. I genuinely want you to give examples why you think this, because of your argument of the Starro example with Orion and Aquaman. You argued Orion>Barda, which is true, but then you say Morrison didn't write a weak Orion. Yet if I only knew the New Gods from Morrison's run, but had all the rest of my comic knowledge in tact, I would argue with you that Barda is physically superior. Because that's the only conclusion I could come to in that scenario. And a lot of that is from the Starro example you argue.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
A few other things I hadn't thought of at the time, EG.
Whether it's your intent or not, you pretty much are arguing "only Aquaman can have his good feats, because I've seen/heard if some low showings those characters are questionable at best." For the most part people aren't bringing up poor showings for Aquaman, but you're bringing up poor showings for other characters, not even counting the out of context and non canon Darkseid mugging. Now that Abhi is doing it, are you going to complain?
Your argument against scaling examples is as if people are saying "Barda KOed X so only their highest feats count." Can you quote anybody doing that? If not either this is just dumb, or you're making strawman.
Random Apokolipsian small arms have been shown to hurt Orion and stated able to kill him(although he's avoided those), so why is it so far fetched a better established weapon can hurt Top-Tier bricks? New God tech is pretty hax in general.
And you never actually answered me on Aquaman's durability feats. You only cited the continent level feat, and I strongly suspect it's not from the period I asked for to compare his durability to Orion. Even if it is from that period.....Orion has better. So this is why I say yes, Morrison did write a weak Orion. This is a big part of your argument for Aquaman, saying Orion>Barda.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
The mugging? Or him needing a crowbar to break in the store? Either way, yeah, I brought it up as well as being non canon. But the scan I posted also says he lost them.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
No Orion > Barda was not a big part of my argument my complaint, argument was trying to scale the Mega Rod attack power to Pre-Crisis Kryptonians or Superman. The intent was to obviously have Superman’s better durability feats in mind or to claim Superman > Aquaman which in turn would practically be claiming Barda > Superman > Aquaman.
I’m not suggesting Aquaman can only have his good feats I just think the scaling is a bit sketchy. From a forum I know for a fact would not subscribe to the idea of Big Barda > Superman because she knocked him out with her Megarod.
On top of that Aquaman has counters for energy attacks via his trident which should scale higher since it’s been claimed to be of the same material as Diana’s bracelets and Nabu’s helmet.
KMC Community Forums
Sep 20th, 2021 07:38 AM
Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
