Krillin vs. Goku

This is Krillin from Buu saga, and BASE Goku From Namek saga (when he arrived to fight Frieza).

round 1- Goku cannot use Kaio Ken
round 2- Goku can use Kaio Ken

Goku's base PL was 3m, so Krillin could probably edge him out in round 1. Once Goku starts using the KK multipliers, however, Krillin is pretty much f*cked... His only hope would be Destructo Disc spam.

Krillin whoops Goku's ass.

Krillin as of DBS should be farrrr above full-power Freeza from the Namek Saga, so if we assume that Krillin is anywhere CLOSE to that he should beat Goku even with Kaioken.

Humans don't increase in power as fast as Saiyans do so I'm gonna go ahead and just believe Krillin didn't have some astronomical increase from the beginning of DBS to when he was training with 18 (who is known not to hold back) and Gohan (who he beat.)

Also if he shares parity with Tien in the Buu saga then he is far above a guy (especially if you believe everyone has had massive increases from the Cell Saga to the Buu Saga) who was able to hold Second Form Cell down, who should logically be able to kill Namek Freeza with a casual flick.

All of this together leads me to believe Krillin wins this, though this is really just an educated assumption.

If we're using the anime versions, which we probably aren't, then Krillin should curb Goku due to his showing against First-Form Cell who was solidly above the Androids.

DBZ Krillin ain't DBS Krillin, though.

Boo-era Krillin(DBZ) hadn't really trained at all since the Android saga. He only started training again roughly a month before the 25th WMAT. He was still stated to be the strongest earthling during that arc, but there is really no reason to believe that his PL was ever any higher than the low-millions range in Z(and frankly, even that is a bit of a stretch, tbh.)

That's why I think Krillin might have a shot at beating Goku in round 1 if he fights crafty(because Goku's base PL was 3m w/o KK)... But in round 2, Goku can use KK multipliers to boost his PL as high as 60m if need be, and Krillin isn't touching that. As mentioned, Krillin's only hope is Solar Flaring Goku, then launching wave after wave of Destructo Disc spam and hoping one of them connects before he gets pulverized... But that's a longshot.

Tien's showing against Semi-Perfect Cell is always mentioned, but it doesn't really matter in terms of his overall ranking on the earthling totem pole, because the Kikoho is a one-off, and its potency is not at all indicative of Tien's base PL. Remember, the Kikoho doesn't just channel the user's raw power/ki, like most other energy beams -- it pulls their very lifeforce into the attack as well(which scales it up massively.) That's why repeated Kikohos allowed Tien to step WAY outside of his weight class and stall Semi-Perfect Cell for a few moments... But the effort drained Tien's lifeforce to such an extent that he would have died if Goku hadn't rescued him.

I'd argue that Krillin's Destructo Discs are potentially just as devastating against opponents who are far more powerful than himself. The difference is that the energy Krillin uses to create them is negligible, which is why he can spam them without breaking a sweat. So from that perspective, the DD is a far better "OP technique" to use in battle than the Kikoho, imo... But that's neither here nor there.

So yeah, in terms of just raw/base PL(excluding one-off attacks), Krillin has been above Tien since Namek. But again, there is still no legitimate reason to believe they ever got above the low-millions range in Z.

...Now DBS is obviously a much different story(for Krillin, at least... Tien is an absolute chump in DBS.)

Even though the TriBeam works different then most attacks it is still part of Tiens arsenal and something he could use in a fight against Krillin. And if he did, Krillin would be screwed.

That's why I still don't understand why Krillin is considered the strongest earthling. In Super is makes sense, but in DBZ not so much.

Originally posted by Mendax
Even though the TriBeam works different then most attacks it is still part of Tiens arsenal and something he could use in a fight against Krillin. And if he did, Krillin would be screwed.

That's why I still don't understand why Krillin is considered the strongest earthling. In Super is makes sense, but in DBZ not so much. I could say the exact same thing about Krillin using a Destructo Disc against Tien.

I agree that the Kikoho could drop Krillin IF it hit its mark, but I honestly don't think that Tien would ever get a chance to use it in an all-out forum fight(Krillin would be all over him)... Though even in a quick-draw scenario between the two attacks, I'd still take the DD over the Kikoho every single time, as it requires virtually no charge/setup time at all -- even when spammed.

At any rate, Tien's ability to create a unique one-off attack that also requires extreme usage of his own lifeforce in order to make it as haxx as it is, doesn't mean his raw/base PL is above Krillin's... And in that respect, Krillin has canonically been the strongest earthling since Namek.

Simply put, Tori loves him, so he'll always be at the top of that list... It is what it is. /shrug

Makes sense.

Guess it's just my own head canon, but I just always felt like Tien was stronger.

Originally posted by Mendax
Makes sense.

Guess it's just my own head canon, but I just always felt like Tien was stronger.

Don't worry.

Most of the fandom feels that way

At least it's not just me.

Originally posted by Galan007
DBZ Krillin ain't DBS Krillin, though.

Boo-era Krillin(DBZ) hadn't really trained at all since the Android saga. He only started training again roughly a month before the 25th WMAT. He was still stated to be the strongest earthling during that arc, but there is really no reason to believe that his PL was ever any higher than the low-millions range in Z(and frankly, even that is a bit of a stretch, tbh.)

That's why I think Krillin might have a shot at beating Goku in round 1 if he fights crafty(because Goku's base PL was 3m w/o KK)... But in round 2, Goku can use KK multipliers to boost his PL as high as 60m if need be, and Krillin isn't touching that. As mentioned, Krillin's only hope is Solar Flaring Goku, then launching wave after wave of Destructo Disc spam and hoping one of them connects before he gets pulverized... But that's a longshot.

Tien's showing against Semi-Perfect Cell is always mentioned, but it doesn't really matter in terms of his overall ranking on the earthling totem pole, because the Kikoho is a one-off, and its potency is not at all indicative of Tien's base PL. Remember, the Kikoho doesn't just channel the user's raw power/ki, like most other energy beams -- it pulls their very lifeforce into the attack as well(which scales it up massively.) That's why repeated Kikohos allowed Tien to step WAY outside of his weight class and stall Semi-Perfect Cell for a few moments... But the effort drained Tien's lifeforce to such an extent that he would have died if Goku hadn't rescued him.

I'd argue that Krillin's Destructo Discs are potentially just as devastating against opponents who are far more powerful than himself. The difference is that the energy Krillin uses to create them is negligible, which is why he can spam them without breaking a sweat. So from that perspective, the DD is a far better "OP technique" to use in battle than the Kikoho, imo... But that's neither here nor there.

So yeah, in terms of just raw/base PL(excluding one-off attacks), Krillin has been above Tien since Namek. But again, there is still no legitimate reason to believe they ever got above the low-millions range in Z.

...Now DBS is obviously a much different story(for Krillin, at least... Tien is an absolute chump in DBS.)

I'm basing this off the fact that Krillin is shown not that long after the Buu Saga training with 18 who doesn't seem to be holding back (and it would be out of character of her to do so.)

I don't think it's fair to restrict this version of Krillin to only the Buu Saga if he had this same strength in the early times of Super, because if he's even CLOSE to 18 in the Buu saga, even anywhere remotely close to her, he should absolutely curb Goku. Since both Androids are MUCH, MUCH stronger then Full-Power Freeza.

He is also seen training with 18 even IN the Buu Saga. Who is seen not holding back and Krillin insists for her to calm down and not go so hard against him.

Training in DBZ doesn't automatically mean the character is as powerful or close to as powerful but I'd argue it's not in 18's character to hold back, and it doesn't seem like she even does either.

Originally posted by Mendax
At least it's not just me.

It's definitely not just you

Gotta give Galan some credit, though. He does his research. It's indeed true that Krillin has been described as "the strongest human" in various bios, magazines, rare collectible cards and whatnot.

And let's not forget that Krillin and Yamcha were King Kai's "plan B" when it came to stopping Buu, if Goku and Vegeta failed. Gotta count for something.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I'm basing this off the fact that Krillin is shown not that long after the Buu Saga training with 18 who doesn't seem to be holding back (and it would be out of character of her to do so.)

I don't think it's fair to restrict this version of Krillin to only the Buu Saga if he had this same strength in the early times of Super, because if he's even CLOSE to 18 in the Buu saga, even anywhere remotely close to her, he should absolutely curb Goku. Since both Androids are MUCH, MUCH stronger then Full-Power Freeza.

He is also seen training with 18 even IN the Buu Saga. Who is seen not holding back and Krillin insists for her to calm down and not go so hard against him.

Training in DBZ doesn't automatically mean the character is as powerful or close to as powerful but I'd argue it's not in 18's character to hold back, and it doesn't seem like she even does either. I get what you're saying to a point, but like I said earlier: DBS =/= DBZ.

IOW, the idiotic power-scaling/creeping in DBS is vastly beyond what it ever was in DBZ. Moreover, even Krillin wasn't really given a push in DBS until right around the time of the ToP, which is set some years after the Boo saga... So his overall level around that time wouldn't be applicable to what it was during the Boo-era/DBZ, regardless.

Anyway, I agree that Krillin likely trained with #18 before the 25th WMAT(even though it wasn't directly shown in the manga.) Because it was clear that #18 wanted to win as much prize money as possible, so she would have wanted to Krillin to finish/rank as high as he could in the finals(this way they would have both received prize money) -- so it would make sense for them to have started training together. But again: the implication is that Krillin hadn't really trained much(if at all) in the 7 years between the Android saga and the Boo saga -- and he only started training with #18 about 1 month before the 25th WMAT started. So it's hard to say how powerful he *actually* was during the Tourney. All we know is that he was still regarded as the most powerful earthling at the time... Though I still see no legitimate reason to put his PL any higher than the low-millions back then. /shrug

I'd also add that just because Krillin was training with #18 before the WMAT, certainly doesn't mean she was going all-out(or even remotely close to all-out) against him. For example, Whis also "trains" with Goku and Vegeta, despite being powerful enough to own both of them with a literal finger flick.