Hamas' end game??

While the average Hamas foot soldier is a brainwashed religious zealot, the Hamas leadership knows they can't beat Israel and in the end it's just going to mean more of their soldiers dead, more Palestinians dead as collateral and Israel tightening control around Gaza even more. So what gives in invading on this scale?

Gut instinct tells me this is to raise the price of oil, and it has already. Saudi Arabia and Russia are the top two exporters and are reaping in the benefits right now. This war in Israel helps Putin fund his own war.

My belief is Gaza has 2 sides like Ireland before it. It will get much bloodier.

Isreal and Palestine are practically in the same space. Its going to be interesting to see how this plays out

Originally posted by rudester
Isreal and Palestine are practically in the same space. Its going to be interesting to see how this plays out if I'm honest I find nothing about death over land interesting.

Blow shit up and praise Allah.

I don't think the Hamas top leadership is just about that. It's not going to work out for them in the end, as Israel is the regional powerhouse and when you have videos of Israeli citizens being dragged behind trucks and Israeli children brutalized, the effectiveness of calling yourself the victim when Israel demolishes is greatly diminished.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
if I'm honest I find nothing about death over land interesting.

It has more to do with religion and power. Jews are known to be nomadic people and being persecuted, yet they one of the most powerful nations in the world. Palestine however is not a political game player, but it has nearby allies that could potentially lend a hand.

Nah, this goes back to territory being taken by the uk and us given to the Jews to form, Israel, occupation, Lebanon and the failed 1982 accords, support of Hammas and the PLO by Iran. Expansionism into Gaza, the recent events at the 3rd most holy site to Muslims and also a major site to Jews and Christians. A right wing Israeli government and a million other factors.

If Israel 🇮🇱 can generate knowledge western civilization will prevail.

And Kiss cancel Dubai.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Nah, this goes back to territory being taken by the uk and us given to the Jews to form, Israel, occupation, Lebanon and the failed 1982 accords, support of Hammas and the PLO by Iran. Expansionism into Gaza, the recent events at the 3rd most holy site to Muslims and also a major site to Jews and Christians. A right wing Israeli government and a million other factors.

People like to pretend that the area that is now Israel was nothing before, and while its vastly progressed as Israel, they were people living off that land.

Not that the Two-State solution had much of a chance, after this, it's going to have zero, which is a true shame.

Originally posted by Robtard
People like to pretend that the area that is now Israel was nothing before, and while its vastly progressed as Israel, they were people living off that land.

Not that the Two-State solution had much of a chance, after this, it's going to have zero, which is a true shame. yeah, add Hezbollah to the mix... Remember Iran, the true regional power is in the shadows here for its own reasons which sort of align at present with the arabs or Gaza and other countries of that region. We will see where this goes. In the end it only takes one pipe bomb to cause havoc... Israel may not have the stomach for a thousand solo suicide jackets. We will see.

I hope for no more bloodshed but I think this will get worse as all actors are doubling down.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
yeah, add Hezbollah to the mix... Remember Iran, the true regional power is in the shadows here for its own reasons which sort of align at present with the arabs or Gaza and other countries of that region. We will see where this goes. In the end it only takes one pipe bomb to cause havoc... Israel may not have the stomach for a thousand solo suicide jackets. We will see. Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I hope for no more bloodshed but I think this will get worse as all actors are doubling down.

This level of attack has given Israel carte blanche to demolish and then possibly occupy Gaza city and the Gaza strip.

The body count is going to be extremely high, unfortunately.

Originally posted by Robtard
This level of attack has given Israel carte blanche to demolish and then possibly occupy Gaza city and the Gaza strip.

The body count is going to be extremely high, unfortunately. Yes it is, but as we've seen so often those that remain become more extreme.

For sure, the children who are seeing their homes demolished and losing their loved ones today, will be easy pickings for terrorist groups as they age in in the near future.

Originally posted by Robtard
For sure, the children who are seeing their homes demolished and losing their loved ones today, will be easy pickings for terrorist groups as they age in in the near future. I honestly don't know how this will spread.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
If Israel 🇮🇱 can generate knowledge western civilization will prevail.

You sound Jewish

Don't think they have one.

Honestly they seem to be employing the underwear gnome strategy here.

1. Attack Isreal

2. .......

3. Profit!

Eat lamb, mutton and goat meat with flat bread and hot sauce.

The reason Hamas is endorsed by the Palestinians is because Israel-Palestine is an apartheid state where Palestinians are oppressed. Unreported acts of robbery, looting, and murder by armed Israeli civilians (non-soldiers) of Palestinian are daily occurrences. It's not a peaceful coexistence between Israelis and Palestinians as advertised in U.S. media, and Hamas is a reaction to that.

Of course this doesn't justify Hamas's actions in any capacity. But it's not a surprising reaction. That said, Hamas does not have the personnel or resources to wage a war against Israel.

Originally posted by Astner
The reason Hamas is endorsed by the Palestinians is because Israel-Palestine is an apartheid state where Palestinians are oppressed. Unreported acts of robbery, looting, and murder by armed Israeli civilians (non-soldiers) of Palestinian are daily occurrences. It's not a peaceful coexistence between Israelis and Palestinians as advertised in U.S. media, and Hamas is a reaction to that.

Of course this doesn't justify Hamas's actions in any capacity. But it's not a surprising reaction. That said, Hamas does not have the personnel or resources to wage a war against Israel. Pretty much.

I have never seen governments choose sides so rapidly. And force people to choose one side over the other. If you dont choose Isreal you are antisemitic.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Pretty much.


Israel is telling 1.1million people to evacuate South. Hamas is telling them to stay. It's unreasonable for 1.1million people to just move without roads or supplies, but they're not safe staying.

Leads to the reality that Hamas' endgame here was likely to provoke Israel into piling up a huge body count of Palestinian civilians to use as propaganda.

Egypt has closed borders and said they'd not accept Palestinian refugees that are currently being forced South.

Such a shit situation all around.

Originally posted by rudester
I have never seen governments choose sides so rapidly. And force people to choose one side over the other. If you dont choose Isreal you are antisemitic.

When it comes to Israel-Palestine, it's pretty common for the usual suspects to pick sides and with a quickness.

America has supplied Israel with more funding than any other nation has since the very beginning. In 2016 the US signed another 10yr Israel Defense fund, for 38bil, or about 3.8bil a year. We're going to supply them with more on top of that for this war.

But if you want to criticize the Israeli government for having a too heavy hand here and someone calls you antisemitic, it's just a cowardly and silly silencing move.

Originally posted by Astner
The reason Hamas is endorsed by the Palestinians is because Israel-Palestine is an apartheid state where Palestinians are oppressed. And Israel's government has repeatedly refused to recognize or even meet with non-Hamas Palestinian authority, while continuing to expand into Palestinian land, defying calls from the international community to stop, and otherwise maintaining inhumane conditions throughout Gaza and enforcing a system of unequal mobility rights (ie apartheid).

Seems like many Palestinians do not actually endorse Hamas, but it doesn't matter who they endorse. So a terrorist organization seizes power in the power vacuum.

Originally posted by Smurph
Seems like many Palestinians do not actually endorse Hamas, but it doesn't matter who they endorse.
Most Palestinians do endorse Hamas because they're is the only ones fighting for them. The Israeli government has been slowly but actively displacing Palestinians, most recently in the Gaza and the West Bank, and we in the West (we) have turned a blind eye to it.

So who are they supposed to side with when their house get seized by an Israeli settler? The police isn't going to help them, in fact they're going to arrest them if they don't comply. That's how the game goes.

It's like a kid hitting his bully in the head with a baseball bat. It's not good, but it's also not unexpected.

So Israel is Nelson from the Simpsons?

Originally posted by FalconPaunch!
So Israel is Nelson from the Simpsons?
The average Israeli citizen isn't in support of the apartheid. It's only perpetuated because of the fundamentalist extremists in the government.

The fact that Israeli's current Prime Minister defended Hitler is like something out of Bizarro World.

f9HmkRYlVZw

Originally posted by Robtard
When it comes to Israel-Palestine, it's pretty common for the usual suspects to pick sides and with a quickness.

America has supplied Israel with more funding than any other nation has since the very beginning. In 2016 the US signed another 10yr Israel Defense fund, for 38bil, or about 3.8bil a year. We're going to supply them with more on top of that for this war.

But if you want to criticize the Israeli government for having a too heavy hand here and someone calls you antisemitic, it's just a cowardly and silly silencing move.

I did not know this. Good to know. I already picked my side. One thing isreal is not counting on--that Palestine has a lot of allies just because it is Muslim.

I'm sure there's a movement along the lines of "Jews for Palestine" or something like that.

If the feeling is agreeable the legislation can stimulate and get past the violence.

Originally posted by FalconPaunch!
I'm sure there's a movement along the lines of "Jews for Palestine" or something like that.
Most Israeli are not in support of the operation in Gaza. There's are protests in the country, and even the coalition government is turning on Netanyahu, source.

Originally posted by Astner
The average Israeli citizen isn't in support of the apartheid. It's only perpetuated because of the fundamentalist extremists in the government.

The fact that Israeli's current Prime Minister defended Hitler is like something out of Bizarro World.

f9HmkRYlVZw

This degenerate needs to be expelled from power with an extreme quickness. But his war is only going to bring up his stock, fear always sells.

Originally posted by Robtard
This degenerate needs to be expelled from power with an extreme quickness. But his war is only going to bring up his stock, fear always sells. not so sure, the last three Israeli leaders who made military blunders left quote rapidly.

My friend just sent me a video circulating on tiktok about a Palestinian family coming back to their home, only to find a Jewish family already living there. The Jewish family was not letting them in and the video said that the Palestinian family had lived in that home for generations.

Dey tuk der home!

Tuk der hooo00o00oooooo0oooooooooome!!!!!!!!!

Duka Rome!

Originally posted by FalconPaunch!
Dey tuk der home!

Tuk der hooo00o00oooooo0oooooooooome!!!!!!!!!

Duka Rome!

Get off da crack!

Its caffeine, taurine, guarana and alcohol.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
not so sure, the last three Israeli leaders who made military blunders left quote rapidly.

Fair enough then, lets hope this spells the end for Netanyahu.

Originally posted by rudester
My friend just sent me a video circulating on tiktok about a Palestinian family coming back to their home, only to find a Jewish family already living there. The Jewish family was not letting them in and the video said that the Palestinian family had lived in that home for generations.

Not that displacement hasn't happened, but that sounds like manufactured bullshit.

You never know. You sound like a Jew!

Do I smell like one too?

Well let's see your moheler

Biden, what a dick move to say Hamas was behind the hospital bombing.

I think people know that really happened. The Isreals have now killed more than 100 people in that hospital bombing. Now, they are the bad guys.

Israel is saying the hospital was bombed by Hamas, Hamas is saying it was Israel.

Either could be true, but Israel is saying they have proof it wasn't them.

I think speculation being treated as fact either way is wrong.

Hamas is Palestinian. I do not see that being true. Why would they bomb a hospital? They wouldn't bomb their own people and people who believe that are easily persuaded

Hamas has used the Palestinian population as shields before.

It's why the Palestinian civilian situation is so f**ked.

I'd say the explanation that it was a failed Hamas rocket makes your argument irrelevant to the claim though. They didn't hit the hospital on purpose it would seem

I don't know what happened. But if it was Hamas, it could have been a a misfired rocket or intentional, as they've used dead civilian Palestinians they created to further their cause.

I think Hamas is definitely a bad guy in this situation. I also think there is no such thing as acceptable collateral damage in israel's response. However, it will absolutely be what happens. It's the same as the U.S. in Afghanistan and Iraq. Thousands upon thousands of innocent people died in those "justified" wars as well. It's all wrong.

Governments are too big. In a small village society, no one person could ruin the lives of millions (such as Putin). They simply wouldn't have the power. The existence of the large nations is the cause of a lot of suffering.

If you are taking territory of other people and forcing them out, you are the bad guy. Isreal wants Gaza, Israel will do anything to have Gaza. Just like Russia wanted Ukraine territory, it is the same story.

Hamas are not pro Palestine, they're anti-Israel. Difference.

Originally posted by rudester
If you are taking territory of other people and forcing them out, you are the bad guy. Isreal wants Gaza, Israel will do anything to have Gaza. Just like Russia wanted Ukraine territory, it is the same story.

Yeah, they definitely shouldn't try to make Gaza a part of Israel, but going in and destroying Hamas seems reasonable.

US intelligence is confirming Israel's version of the story, it was a Hamas rocket that hit the hospital. Unsure if intentional or accidental.

Sheikh Yasin created Hamas as the military wing of the Muslim Brotherhood... It was never supposed to win any elections which hilariously it once did.

Originally posted by rudester
If you are taking territory of other people and forcing them out, you are the bad guy. Isreal wants Gaza, Israel will do anything to have Gaza. Just like Russia wanted Ukraine territory, it is the same story.

It's not so cut and dry, as Israel has given back land it has previously captured in other wars.

We'll see what they take (if anything) after they're done destroying Hamas and demolishing the Gaza strip.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's not so cut and dry, as Israel has given back land it has previously captured in other wars.

We'll see what they take (if anything) after they're done destroying Hamas and demolishing the Gaza strip. We'll also see how this affects lone individuals and cells of people in response. Violence begets etc.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
We'll also see how this affects lone individuals and cells of people in response. Violence begets etc. We'll also see how this affects the western world, riots have already started.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
We'll also see how this affects the western world, riots have already started. oh, no doubt.

This whole thing is just horrible whats happening......

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
oh, no doubt. A Illinois man stabbed a 6yo Muslim boy to death and severely insured his mother because of the anti-Islam rhetoric he was hearing on rightist conservative talk radio.

It's almost like words matter, especially when you have an audience...

Sad to see people just kill other people for something that's going on in another part of the world

This war is pissing me off. News paper headlines read, 'Isreal is happy that all the countries believe they did not strike the Gaza Hospital. Next headline, Isreal strikes Gaza to warn Hamas.

How difficult is it for people to put two and two together?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
We'll also see how this affects the western world, riots have already started. Ah good, I'm glad to hear someone here cares about the fact that the western world largely is publicly supporting genocide.

Ive seen a a fair few right wingers going all anti-Israel. Including Ethneos crush Kim Iverson. He must be dying from the betrayal.

This war is getting to me. I rather not read the news. But I did notice something unique. If you haven't kept up with the news, Russia has met up with China this week to discuss the war, what was interesting about this meeting is how America responded indirectly. The US is building a new nuclear gravity bomb - with 24-times more power, if this doesn't send a clear message then nothing will.

Originally posted by rudester
This war is getting to me. I rather not read the news. But I did notice something unique. If you haven't kept up with the news, Russia has met up with China this week to discuss the war, what was interesting about this meeting is how America responded indirectly. The US is building a new nuclear gravity bomb - with 24-times more power, if this doesn't send a clear message then nothing will.

24 times more power... than the ones from the 1940s. By the 1950s that was already surpassed by orders of magnitude.

"Gravity bomb" sounds all sci-fi, but all it means is the payload gets dropped from an airplane instead of strapped to a rocket.

It's also replacing an older design dating back to the early 80s.

Originally posted by FalconPaunch!
Blow shit up and praise Allah. I still stand by this. srug

When you end up killing more civilians than the terrorist, it's not a good look.

eg The US invaded Iraq under a fabricated threat/lie and we ended up killing more Iraqi civilians both directly and indirectly than Saddam did during his dictatorship reign. There's no arguing that Saddam wasn't a piece of shit, but it's not a good look.

Israel has the unconditional backing of the U.S., so they don't have to care about looks.

Originally posted by Robtard
When you end up killing more civilians than the terrorist, it's not a good look.

eg The US invaded Iraq under a fabricated threat/lie and we ended up killing more Iraqi civilians both directly and indirectly than Saddam did during his dictatorship reign. There's no arguing that Saddam wasn't a piece of shit, but it's not a good look. Yes, Saddam tortured civilians with toxic gas. His sons Uday and Qusay were worse. I don't know much about Qusay other than he followed Saddam and stayed close to him whilst Uday raped brides on their honeymoon, girls as young as 12, shot and sawed people, etc. Even Saddam thought he was too evil to inherit the dictatorship. You can't just blame it all on Saddam. The entire regime were evil to the point where they had playing cards with their photos on. That's at least 52 evil people.

Interesting perspective:

400L2VvbNxs

Originally posted by Robtard
When you end up killing more civilians than the terrorist, it's not a good look.

eg The US invaded Iraq under a fabricated threat/lie and we ended up killing more Iraqi civilians both directly and indirectly than Saddam did during his dictatorship reign. There's no arguing that Saddam wasn't a piece of shit, but it's not a good look.

It causes a complete lack of trust in them. So even when there is a complete POS Dictator out there, I'm not gonna support the US to take them out, because I know they only have their own interests at play and don't give a toss about protecting anyone.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Israel has the unconditional backing of the U.S., so they don't have to care about looks.

Yeah exactly. Bassem Yousef joked about that when Piers Morgan asked him what would he do if he was Israel. And he was like "I would keep bombing Gaza because why not when the world is allowing me to?!"

At least Chavez was capable of standing up to the Bush regime.

The Biden admin is asking Israel for a cease fire, to allow civilians to flee. Netanyahu refuses unless hostages are released.

I suspect Netanyahu will likely cave after some dick-waving.

I miss Rabin. Clinton nearly came close to middle east peace until he was assassinated.

Originally posted by FalconPaunch!
I miss Rabin. Clinton nearly came close to middle east peace until he was assassinated.


Another victim of Right-Wing extremist. Murdered for seeking peace and coexistence with Palestinians.

Originally posted by Robtard
The Biden admin is asking Israel for a cease fire, to allow civilians to flee. Netanyahu refuses unless hostages are released.

I suspect Netanyahu will likely cave after some dick-waving.

I read this comment today which made me laugh yet sad but truth really. "Ugh, I dont think there are any hostages left, if there were, Isreal bombed them already.

Russia, China and Iran are now pro Hamas. Looks like world war 3 guys.

Originally posted by rudester
Russia, China and Iran are now pro Hamas. Looks like world war 3 guys.

Expected given the West are pro Israel. Still won't be on par with Western support to Israel though until they aid Hamas's military like $3billion a year.

Darth Thor
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Ass guard
Sexuality: Unknown
hmm

Megiddo is in Israel... never forget that.

Old Man Whirly forgot to mention his first name.

His full name is Dirty Old Man Whirly!

Originally posted by FalconPaunch!
Darth Thor
Senior Member
Gender: Male
Location: Ass guard
Sexuality: Unknown
hmm


I recognise this lame attempt at humour !

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Expected given the West are pro Israel. Still won't be on par with Western support to Israel though until they aid Hamas's military like $3billion a year.

The US should be investing billions in Palestinian infrastructure like schools, farms, textiles etc. as people who are not starving and unemployed are less likely to look towards terrorist as theirsaviors.

Giving money directly to Hamas though? Terrible idea. Hamas would wipe out Israel if if had the capabilities, they've said as much.

Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department officers arrested a terrorist after she drove her car into a building that she thought was a Jewish school. However, the building is used by the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge which is ironically an antisemitic hate group.

Ruba Almaghtheh, 34, was arrested on a preliminary charge of criminal recklessness. Almaghtheh told officers she was watching news coverage of the Israel-Hamas war on television, and decided to plan an attack, because of the "Hebrew Israelite" symbol on the front of the building. Almaghtheh admitted to detectives that she committed the hate crime for "her people back in Palestine," and told officers, "Yes, I did it on purpose."

However, the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge is a sect of the Black Hebrew Israelites, which is an antisemitic hate group. The Black Hebrew Israelites are black supremacists, who believe that people of African descent are the true descendants of the ancient Israelites, and that contemporary Jews are Satanic impostors.

J4HwN6kk5HA

Originally posted by Robtard


Giving money directly to Hamas though? Terrible idea. Hamas would wipe out Israel if if had the capabilities, they've said as much.


Because they don't believe in an Apartheid state? Something wrong with that?

Hamas would actually accept a two state solution (they've agreed to that from many years back). But in reality that wouldn't work either.

The only way for peace is to give all Palestinians the same right of return to that land that Jews have. With the same reparations/funding in place. And with equal rights and representation. But that would no longer be Israel.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department officers arrested a terrorist after she drove her car into a building that she thought was a Jewish school. However, the building is used by the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge which is ironically an antisemitic hate group.

Ruba Almaghtheh, 34, was arrested on a preliminary charge of criminal recklessness. Almaghtheh told officers she was watching news coverage of the Israel-Hamas war on television, and decided to plan an attack, because of the "Hebrew Israelite" symbol on the front of the building. Almaghtheh admitted to detectives that she committed the hate crime for "her people back in Palestine," and told officers, "Yes, I did it on purpose."

However, the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge is a sect of the Black Hebrew Israelites, which is an antisemitic hate group. The Black Hebrew Israelites are black supremacists, who believe that people of African descent are the true descendants of the ancient Israelites, and that contemporary Jews are Satanic impostors.

J4HwN6kk5HA

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because they don't believe in an Apartheid state? Something wrong with that?

Hamas would actually accept a two state solution (they've agreed to that from many years back). But in reality that wouldn't work either.

The only way for peace is to give all Palestinians the same right of return to that land that Jews have. With the same reparations/funding in place. And with equal rights and representation. But that would no longer be Israel.

Israel's apartheid practices are truly shit, but apartheid isn't killing everyone.

Everything I hear from Hamas spokesmen is they're not for the two state solution, they simply want Israel gone. You can't find common ground with that. If there is indeed a more moderate faction in Hamas, great, but they don't seem to be in control.

I disagree, I think the two-state could potentially work, if Palestine is built to the point people are not living in squalor. It's the extremist on both sides that will not allow it to even have breath.

Originally posted by Robtard
Israel's apartheid practices are truly shit, but apartheid isn't killing everyone.

Everything I hear from Hamas spokesmen is they're not for the two state solution, they simply want Israel gone. You can't find common ground with that. If there is indeed a more moderate faction in Hamas, great, but they don't seem to be in control.

I disagree, I think the two-state could potentially work, if Palestine is built to the point people are not living in squalor. It's the extremist on both sides that will not allow it to even have breath.


Ethnic cleansing isn't necessarily killing everyone. It's also forcibly removing them.

Like I said they accepted the 2 state outcome years ago, they're just not entertaining it right now whilst Gaza is being bombarded the way it is.

You seem to think Israel will find common ground with someone else. They won't. They have no interest in a 2 state or 1 state solution. Netanyahu literally went to the UN just a few months ago with a very expanded map of Israel. Does that seem like a side moderate Palestinians can find common ground with?

The International community has to put pressure on them. Only way.

And yeah my personal opinion stands that One State with full right of Return for both Jews and Palestinians would be the most Just. And when you have Peace & Justice, then extremists (on both sides) lose their influence.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ethnic cleansing isn't necessarily killing everyone. It's also forcibly removing them.

Like I said they accepted the 2 state outcome years ago, they're just not entertaining it right now whilst Gaza is being bombarded the way it is.

You seem to think Israel will find common ground with someone else. They won't. They have no interest in a 2 state or 1 state solution. Netanyahu literally went to the UN just a few months ago with a very expanded map of Israel. Does that seem like a side moderate Palestinians can find common ground with?

The International community has to put pressure on them. Only way.

And yeah my personal opinion stands that One State with full right of Return for both Jews and Palestinians would be the most Just. And when you have Peace & Justice, then extremists (on both sides) lose their influence.

Correct, no argument there. But if the choice is expulsion or annihilation, the later is the lesser of two evils.

Honestly was not aware of this. But preaching death to all and the erasure of Israel and all Jews now isn't going to help the cause of moderation and a cease fire. Hamas is just feeding the fire with that kind of rhetoric.

It just feeds into Israel's stance of them needing to permanently set up base in Gaza, which is being pushed now. This is going to become their own personal Vietnam and Afghanistan war dilemma.

I think the majority of the Israeli citizenship would accept a two-state solution if it brought lasting peace and stability to the region.

Netanyahu is a Far-Right piece of garbage, he's literally part of the problem to the ongoing conflict.

Ok, when you put it that way, sure, sounds great on paper, but it's not going to had. The powers on both sides won't do it, the US won't back it, Iran won't back it.

Originally posted by Robtard


Ok, when you put it that way, sure, sounds great on paper, but it's not going to had. The powers on both sides won't do it, the US won't back it, Iran won't back it.


That's true that no country has actually put it forward as a solution. But I've realised it is the only long term solution. Look at it this way, imagine the solution put forward for the South Africa apartheid was a 2 state solution!

Also Israel left Gaza, but then US and Israel embargoed it, and Israel completely controlled it, so I don't see how 2 States would be any different.

Could do a combo though, like a viable Palestinain state combined with right of return to Israel or Palestine for Palestinian refugees.

And yes agree Hamas don't help anything with their rhetoric (or their terror attacks), but come on, they're a backward militant group fighting an occupation, so what would we expect.
These kind of terrorist groups (ones only fighting an occupation) have to be ultimately dealt with diplomatically. You can try assassinating all of them, but that will just make them martyrs to the Palestinians.
And as disturbed as they are, I honestly don't think it's their mission to kill all Jews. Or say to lock them up in the Gaza strip.

They both want Jerusalem. Without it, there is no two state solution.

^ Under International Law East Jerusalem is considered Palestinian territory. But not according the the US or Israel.

Also it's in the Likud's party charter that it's Israel's right to reign from the River to the Sea. IOW they don't accept Palestinians having a state in the area.

So don't fall for the propaganda that it's just one side here that can't be negotiated with. Nothing positive will happen without International Pressure on both sides.

Would Jordan claim it as Jordan? What Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and the Saud say if this is the compromise?

And what about the Gaza Strip?

Biden's got Israel to agree to a daily 4-hour ceasefire to allow aid in and to open a second South corridor for fleeing civilians.

Hamas will obviously use that 4 hours to fortuity, but you have to take the good with the bad.

Biden is a communist like Obama and Clinton!

Let's stack up on bombs and drones sheeple for our freedumb!!!

Originally posted by FalconPaunch!
Would Jordan claim it as Jordan? What Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and the Saud say if this is the compromise?

And what about the Gaza Strip?



Hmm. Yeah too confusing. Best just to keep throwing bombs.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Hmm. Yeah too confusing. Best just to keep throwing bombs. Which has been the policy for about 75 years... Same with George Bush.

More like FalconPunk, tbh

Stop being a bully Roberto. Mind your manners or you will get time out.

Originally posted by Robtard
Biden's got Israel to agree to a daily 4-hour ceasefire to allow aid in and to open a second South corridor for fleeing civilians.

Hamas will obviously use that 4 hours to fortuity, but you have to take the good with the bad.

Guess that was fake news cus Isreal is killing again!

Originally posted by rudester
Guess that was fake news cus Isreal is killing again!


Its not a ceasefire. Its a humanitarian pause. Which sounds very humanitarian but is sick as f*** tbh.

4 hours a day is seriously tight.

Ohh you haven't read the latest headlines---Israel to continue fighting despite US deal for humanitarian pauses.

US gets no say lol

USA bad.

Originally posted by rudester
Guess that was fake news cus Isreal is killing again!

It's a four hour a day ceasefire.

It's not much, but better than noting.

Day ceased arr fire!!!!
Ceased are fire?
Ceased a furrrr!
Creased her fur?
Lady voice: you can crease my fur flirt

Originally posted by Robtard
More like FalconPunk, tbh Forgot to say thank you.

Thank you, Robtard.

We're getting close to 10* the number of Palestinians killed in retribution for Israeli's who were killed on October 7th.

I wish the "civilised" world agree a multiplier you couldn't go past for a retribution mission. Peeps like Ben Shapiro will never agree on a number before it's no longer "justified."

Originally posted by Darth Thor
US gets no say lol
Nonsense, we're the only reason Israel gets away with this behavior. The reason nothing's happening isn't because we have no say, it's because we're only really interested in keeping up appearances here.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
We're getting close to 10* the number of Palestinians killed in retribution for Israeli's who were killed on October 7th.

I wish the "civilised" world agree a multiplier you couldn't go past for a retribution mission. Peeps like Ben Shapiro will never agree on a number before it's no longer "justified." Sir, sir? I have completely agreed upon numbers that are justified so what you're saying is nonsense. I have justified those numbers myself and don't require the opinions of people who think it's wrong to kill all those Hamas supporters when they're supporting a terrorist organisation. Now answer my question, do you think it's right to kill innocent Israelis, yes or no?

I'll answer that. 100 kidnapped Israelis does not justify the killing and bombing of an entire city, killing 10,000 Palestinians. And to accuse Palestinians of being terrorists for protecting Gaza--the west bank and trying to keep Israelis from taking more land.

Isreal is acting like the Nazi's. Now, Israel is saying they are going to keep a permanent base in Gaza to watch over the Palestinians from getting out of line.

Why are they terrorists? Because they want Israelis out of the west bank? Did every Gazian say they were Hamas supporters? How about the other northern Palestinians? Are they Hamas supporters too? Why is it only the people in Gaza? Why is the war being reverted in an area where two sides are disputing for land? Dont you think this war is to convenient for one side?

Originally posted by rudester
I'll answer that.

Thanks

I would have raged at him for his last question to me.

A ceasefire is needed.

Originally posted by rudester
I'll answer that. 100 kidnapped Israelis does not justify the killing and bombing of an entire city, killing 10,000 Palestinians. And to accuse Palestinians of being terrorists for protecting Gaza--the west bank and trying to keep Israelis from taking more land.

Isreal is acting like the Nazi's. Now, Israel is saying they are going to keep a permanent base in Gaza to watch over the Palestinians from getting out of line.

Why are they terrorists? Because they want Israelis out of the west bank? Did every Gazian say they were Hamas supporters? How about the other northern Palestinians? Are they Hamas supporters too? Why is it only the people in Gaza? Why is the war being reverted in an area where two sides are disputing for land? Dont you think this war is to convenient for one side? Originally posted by Darth Thor
Thanks

I would have raged at him for his last question to me. I think you both missed that I was merely doing a Ben Shapiro impression.

Originally posted by FalconPaunch!
I think you both missed that I was merely doing a Ben Shapiro impression.



In that case that was pretty good.

Let me try:

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
A ceasefire is needed.


Hamas-ISIS supporting Anti-Semite right here !!!

Did you know 10,000 Palestinian soldiers fought for the British in WW2?

Macron's ball dropped yesterday! Respect. Sunak's can't drop, he has to grow a pair first.

Originally posted by FalconPaunch!
I think you both missed that I was merely doing a Ben Shapiro impression.

I talked to Ben once. He thinks he is so smart with his criticism and opinions.

Originally posted by rudester
I talked to Ben once. He thinks he is so smart with his criticism and opinions. his sister has spotty titties, Surt posted a picture once.

They're still nice titties.

Even if she is related to a 5'5 manlet who thinks he's tall and domineering.

Also, I'm pretty sure all of you re-read my post in his voice like I did when I typed it. :'D

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because they don't believe in an Apartheid state? Something wrong with that?

Hamas would actually accept a two state solution (they've agreed to that from many years back). But in reality that wouldn't work either.

The only way for peace is to give all Palestinians the same right of return to that land that Jews have. With the same reparations/funding in place. And with equal rights and representation. But that would no longer be Israel.

I don't recall Hamas ever agreeing to it, although there's a wealth of information to shift through to verify such a statement. If anything, their behavior since taking power is the exact opposite of moving towards this solution and they've done nothing but antagonize and make the situation worse. It's telling that polls in Gaza and Israel have been rapidly shifting towards both populations thinking a Two-State solution is impossible or not favorable.

As for peace, good luck. Islamist extremists have been about killing Jews and non-believers since the dark ages. It started with Medina and likely won't stop until the world is purged of them. And when they're done with that, they'll come for the Christians, and the gays and so on. You can't make peace with someone just looking for a chance to kill your people.

Originally posted by Robtard
Israel's apartheid practices are truly shit, but apartheid isn't killing everyone.

Everything I hear from Hamas spokesmen is they're not for the two state solution, they simply want Israel gone. You can't find common ground with that. If there is indeed a more moderate faction in Hamas, great, but they don't seem to be in control.

I disagree, I think the two-state could potentially work, if Palestine is built to the point people are not living in squalor. It's the extremist on both sides that will not allow it to even have breath.

Basically, Hamas hasn't allowed any elections and holds Gaza in its grip, so no meaningful diplomacy can occur. You're right that growing extremist factions in Israel are making things worse, and Hamas won't relinquish control. The Palestinian Authority isn't a great alternative either. The problem is that you have generations of festering, stoked hatred and bad conditions just making a perfect storm for more subsequent hatred and terrorism.

You could stop the war, right now, remove Hamas as if by magic, bring back the hostages and the dead on both sides, and it'd just start up in a few months anyways.

Originally posted by rudester
I'll answer that. 100 kidnapped Israelis does not justify the killing and bombing of an entire city,

True. But Israel hasn't killed an entire city. Bombed it after everyone was gone, sure.

You seem to be glossing over the severity of the initial Hama attack as well here. The brutality of it, the claiming of prisoners, most of which have not been released. Some found dead, paraded around the backs of trucks while citizens spit and hack at the bodies.



I'm not going to step on a landmine and say I condone the deaths of Gazan civilians (because I don't; I actually started getting really bothered by it in the beginning of this war and began looking more and more into the topic because every day it would pop up in the news and upset me), but it has been pointed out that even when the IDF warned Gazans to move, Hamas made them stay. Hamas has a culpability for some civilian deaths because they don't even care about their own people and use them for shields as well.

I'm not sure what you think the alternative is here; war is awful. War should never be the answer. But when extremists who don't think you have a right to exist at all, two state or no, attack and rape, behead, and capture your people on a religious holiday fall back and hide behind hospitals and civilians, what is the proper course of action? Pacifism? Some kind of diplomacy? Strongly worded letters?

Tell me: what should people do in the darkest of times that is ethically correct?

Because I think the whole point about this topic is that there's no happy easy answer. It's extremely difficult, and our views and perspectives may change with time, or evidence, or even personal life experience. But at the same time I refuse to say Israel should take that laying down.



The invasion of Israel wasn't protecting Gaza. It was a war crime which tipped off a war where more war crimes are happening on both sides. What, you think Hamas didn't think for a second attacking Israel, the country providing all of Gaza's utilities, would be a bad move? Or do you think they were just doing their duty?



Not sure how. Arabs are something like 20 percent minority in Israel. The number of Jews in Gaza is something like whatever percent was captured on the 7th and still alive. Hamas fighters brag about killing Jews on social media and on video footage captured during the assault on the 7th. They dragged a hostage's body around, half clothed, for civilians to mutilate and spit on. Israel has gone full hulk on the Gaza Strip, which is bad news for everyone living in it, but they haven't gone in to kill everyone.

I can't imagine if the power of each were reversed, Hamas going into Israel would be anything but actual genocide on the level of the Nazis. Maybe worse, considering there's more Jews in Israel now than Hitler got ahold of.



What should they do instead? Door to door surveys? "Hello, are you feeling jihad-y today sir?"



Look at this rhetoric. "Don't you think this war is to convenient for one side?"

Do I think some factions in Israel would like to just stamp out Gaza and assert absolute control? Sure. They, like most countries, have some extreme factions who have embraced the hate. The difference is that Israel didn't initiate this war; Hamas did in the most atrocious way possible and without consideration for the fallout (or care, if they did). Second, because of how severe things have become, anything short of occupation would be insufficient.

Occupation isn't this morally evil thing every time. The allies occupied Germany after WW2, as the US did Japan. In both cases, both countries had evil governments who committed atrocities and were 'watched' for decades before the culture changed enough to be integrated into the greater global community. Off parole, I should say.

The main difference here is that the Gaza strip being occupied won't be easily given the same treatment. The economy cannot flourish because currently it's a dependent economy. The country doesn't have much autonomy and it has a strong strong religious culture of intolerance which would have to be removed utterly to allow for a peaceful transition into something like a peaceful neighboring state, regardless of where borders lie.

This justification of violence over border disputes is archaic tribalism at its finest. This border this; that border that. It's all squabbling nonsense which justifies nothing. The greater issue here is why can't these two people cooperate peacefully, which would allow for a better compromise? It's really really simple - Hamas wants to kill Jews, and they have a lot of support in Gaza. Ironically, they may somehow get more support out of this war, even if they lose it utterly.

If the Gazans could rebuild, chuck Hamas and fundamentalist Islam, and become a self sufficient economy with the help of others, that would be ideal. But I don't think that will happen. Fundamentalism in the Middle East has simply grown, not shrunk. And all of the powers in the area are invested in both not helping Gaza (either by accepting refugees or helping them economically) and just pushing them into fighting Israel, because they also hate them.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1)I don't recall Hamas ever agreeing to it, although there's a wealth of information to shift through to verify such a statement.

2)If anything, their behavior since taking power is the exact opposite of moving towards this solution and they've done nothing but antagonize and make the situation worse. It's telling that polls in Gaza and Israel have been rapidly shifting towards both populations thinking a Two-State solution is impossible or not favorable.

3)As for peace, good luck. Islamist extremists have been about killing Jews and non-believers since the dark ages. It started with Medina and likely won't stop until the world is purged of them. And when they're done with that, they'll come for the Christians, and the gays and so on. You can't make peace with someone just looking for a chance to kill your people.



Nice Islamophobic rant there.

1) https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=did+hamas+ever+agree+to+a+two+state+solution&sca_esv=583646388&source=hp&ei=rPpYZeyZCK-uhbIP_8-xEA& amp;iflsig=AO6bgOgAAAAAZVkIvCDkNiCj69m_6hgEpl_b56Z
JICbe&oq=did+hamas+ever+agree+& amp;gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IhVkaWQgaGFtYXMgZXZlciBhZ3Jl
ZSAqAggAMgUQABiABDILEAAYgAQYigUYhgMyCxAAGIAEGIoFGI
YDMgsQABiABBiKBRiGA0jRgQFQ9RhY5HZwAXgAkAEAmAG0AaAB
jRGqAQUxMC4xMbgBAcgBAPgBAagCCsICEBAAGAMYjwEY5QIY6g
IYjAPCAhAQLhgDGI8BGOUCGOoCGIwDwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHC
AhEQLhiABBixAxiDARjHARjRA8ICDhAuGIAEGIoFGLEDGIMBwg
IUEC4YgAQYsQMYgwEYxwEY0QMY1ALCAggQABiABBixA8ICBRAu
GIAEwgILEC4YgAQYsQMYgwHCAhEQLhiABBixAxiDARjHARivAc
ICCBAuGIAEGLEDwgILEC4YgAQYxwEYrwHCAg4QABiABBiKBRix
AxiDAcICDhAuGK8BGMcBGLEDGIAEwgIEEAAYA8ICBxAuGIAEGA
rCAgYQABgWGB4&sclient=gws-wiz

"in 2017 Hamas accepted the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, but without recognising the statehood of Israel."

^ Google is your friend.

2) You're talking about Israel not Hamas. The moment Hamas got elected, the U.S. and Israel put an embargo on Gaza. Since then Israel have gone on to have a complete blockade around Gaza, controlling their land borders, air and sea. They're not even allowed an airport. Add that to the continued illegal settlements and killing of Palestinians in the West Bank, it's very crystal clear that it's Israel which has done nothing but antagonize and make the situation worse. It's no wonder the UN Chief said that although October 7th attacks were appauling, they did not happen in a vacuum.

Israel have always made it clear that they're not interested in a One state or a Two state solution. Only in slowly ethnic cleansing the Palestinian majority out of the entirety of what they call Israel.

3) Ah yes can never have peace with muslims (well you can as long as they're not too muslim amirite?). Urm it's Christians who were mostly responsible for persecuting and killing Jews since the dark ages. Christians kicked Jews out of Israel/Palestine in the first place, not Muslims. In fact when Muslims took over under Caliph Umar, he invited Jews back to the Holy Land.

And then on to Christians and Gays lmao. You really are completely brainwashed about Islam/Muslims.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
We're getting close to 10* the number of Palestinians killed in retribution for Israeli's who were killed on October 7th.

I wish the "civilised" world agree a multiplier you couldn't go past for a retribution mission. Peeps like Ben Shapiro will never agree on a number before it's no longer "justified."

I'm always with you over innocents being slaughtered just because they're in the wrong place at the wrong time. especially kids who zero to do with the politics of the sitution, but a "they killed 50, so we get to kill 'X' amount" is just not how war works, Israel's first obligation is to protect her own people from this happening again, and yes, their own actions feed into the problem in the first place.

Been said before, Israel's getting into their own Vietnam, Afghanistan (USSR & US) and Iraq quandary.

The US should have never gone into those with the exception of Afghanistan and only in small units for the sole purpose of hunting down Al-Qaeda, but US weapons manufacturers can't sell mass amounts of weapons in that kind of war.

Afghanistan didn't even have an army until the US intervened in 1979...

Afghanistan was better off. They had royals till someone thought it would be best to take that country apart

Originally posted by rudester
Afghanistan was better off. They had royals till someone thought it would be best to take that country apart They also had the best weed. ermm

Originally posted by Robtard
Israel's first obligation is to protect her own people from this happening again, and yes, their own actions feed into the problem in the first place.


It's supposed to be their first obligation, but Honestly not sure how much they care. I mean they're bombing the crud out of the area where Israeli hostages are being held.

As for if it "should be" their priority or their "right" to defend themselves which we hear a lot of in the media, not sure how much right an Apartheid state has. Like at least stop building illegal settlements before they talk about "our right to defend ourselves".

As I've said before, I have little love for Israeli politics when it comes to how they treat Palestinians; especially for the current Netanyahu government, they're warhawks who want conflict so they can go "look how tough we are, only we can protect you", when the reality of the situation is, the massacre of Israelis that set off this war happened under Netanyahu's watch in the first place.

From what I understand, this war isn't boosting Netanyahu's popularity, oddly enough it's having the opposite effect and more and more Israeli's are calling for his removal. Hopefully that happens, he should be in prison.

Originally posted by Robtard
As I've said before, I have little love for Israeli politics when it comes to how they treat Palestinians; especially for the current Netanyahu government, they're warhawks who want conflict so they can go "look how tough we are, only we can protect you", when the reality of the situation is, the massacre of Israelis that set off this war happened under Netanyahu's watch in the first place.

From what I understand, this war isn't boosting Netanyahu's popularity, oddly enough it's having the opposite effect and more and more Israeli's are calling for his removal. Hopefully that happens, he should be in prison.


^ That'd be great. A government is needed that's serious about stopping the Aparthied, without using the tiresome "but terrorists" excuse.

There will be no terrorism there if the Apartheid stops and Palestinian refugees are taken in with appropriate reparations.

After that, by all means put the terrorists on trial for their crimes. Including Netanyahu as you suggested.

Netanyahu's approval rating in Israeli is tanking hard, some have him under 15%. But he's politically safe as long as this war is ongoing.

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