elrond vs the balrog

I don't imagine who could win this battle. . Is it elrond (the keeper of the most powerful ring of the 3 given to the elves) and the balrog (a powerful maia) ???

Hrrrm I'm gonna go with the Maia. The Elven Rings didn't really have offensive powers and seeing as Elrond could only really be as powerful in combat as say a very powerful Elf lord (say Glorfindel who was near Maia like power levels) then even if Elrond was to defeat the Balrog chances are he would be slain too. There isn't actually a case I know of when a Balrog has been killed without the other person dying as well.

I vote ringwraiths, because they pretty much pwn everyone

nazzy

Except for Aragorn. He took out all nine of them with a burning stick

Lol.

Oh, Saruman would win btw. Lowly ringwraiths are no macth for everyones favourite corrupted wizard

Didn't Saruman hid when the Nazgul came to Isengard?

Either way I doubt Saurman would be able to stand up against the Ringwraiths seeing as he fell so far he woulnd't be as powerful as he was uncorrupted. At least thats how I've read it. And Blax Aragorn only did that in the film in the book its worth noting that all nine were not present Gandalf had drawn I think 4 or 5 of them off and the remainder were the ones that encountered Aragorn and the Hobbits.

Aragorn coulnd't stand up to them. We are informed that all the men of the Dunedain watching the Shire could not bar the entry of the Nazgul and that wouldn't have changed if Aragorn had been present. The only two mentioned in the book who could ride openly against the Nine are Gandalf and Glorfindel.

thought I might get back to the original matter. I think the balrog stands a better chance. there are elves who have killed balrogs in the book, but all of them have died. and I think the balrog stands a better chance of surviving.

Originally posted by Blax X
Except for Aragorn. He took out all nine of them with a burning stick

Pfft, not really. They were all fine and dandy a few scenes later to chase Arwen.

Originally posted by thefallen544
Either way I doubt Saurman would be able to stand up against the Ringwraiths seeing as he fell so far he woulnd't be as powerful as he was uncorrupted. At least thats how I've read it. And Blax Aragorn only did that in the film in the book its worth noting that all nine were not present Gandalf had drawn I think 4 or 5 of them off and the remainder were the ones that encountered Aragorn and the Hobbits.

Aragorn coulnd't stand up to them. We are informed that all the men of the Dunedain watching the Shire could not bar the entry of the Nazgul and that wouldn't have changed if Aragorn had been present. The only two mentioned in the book who could ride openly against the Nine are Gandalf and Glorfindel.

It's also worth noting that in the movie only 5 are there. (Just rewatched the Fellowship)

Ah, so indeed 4 had been drawn away. Thanks for the heads up there

Elrond even with Vilya (which is the Ring of Air, the 2nd most powerful ring of the elves, Gandalf has the most powerful one, Narya the Ring of Fire) Elrond has no chance against a Balrog. Only an Elf-Lord could defeat a Balrog and quite few died trying.

IIRC, in the novel, at Weathertop, the nascent fellowship (Aragorn and the Hobbits) were confronted by 5 Nazgul and not the Witch King. Aragorn drove them off, btw in the novel he had the shards of Narsil with him.

Only Glorfindel, Galadriel and the Maia such as the Wise could confront a Balrog and hope to win or drive off all 9 Nazgul like that.

Originally posted by Council#13
Didn't Saruman hid when the Nazgul came to Isengard?
But wasnt that more shock and surprise than fear though?

Vilya was the most powerful of the Elven rings, not Narya. And I quote from Rotk "The Grey Havens" 'Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his forehead, and a silver hard was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of gold with a great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the Three" Narya was known as "Narya the Great" but Vilya was the most powerful of the three Elven Rings.

balrog would melt his face litrally.

Gandalf on the other hand was a god like wizard and he realisticly couldn't die, i don't think illuvitar would allow it.

Originally posted by thtadthtshldntb
Elrond even with Vilya (which is the Ring of Air, the 2nd most powerful ring of the elves, Gandalf has the most powerful one, Narya the Ring of Fire) Elrond has no chance against a Balrog. Only an Elf-Lord could defeat a Balrog and quite few died trying.

IIRC, in the novel, at Weathertop, the nascent fellowship (Aragorn and the Hobbits) were confronted by 5 Nazgul and not the Witch King. Aragorn drove them off, btw in the novel he had the shards of Narsil with him.

Only Glorfindel, Galadriel and the Maia such as the Wise could confront a Balrog and hope to win or drive off all 9 Nazgul like that.
isn't Elrond an Elf lord? Anyway i thnik the balrog would win.

Elrond is an Elf Lord. But I don't think his combat ability was to the same par as say Glorfindel who was at near Maia like levels of power. As such in a stright out fight I don't personally think Elrond could win. His skills lie more in healing, farsigh and council.

He did have one of the rings of power though, which Glorfindel did not.

Originally posted by thtadthtshldntb
Elrond even with Vilya (which is the Ring of Air, the 2nd most powerful ring of the elves, Gandalf has the most powerful one, Narya the Ring of Fire) Elrond has no chance against a Balrog. Only an Elf-Lord could defeat a Balrog and quite few died trying.

IIRC, in the novel, at Weathertop, the nascent fellowship (Aragorn and the Hobbits) were confronted by 5 Nazgul and not the Witch King. Aragorn drove them off, btw in the novel he had the shards of Narsil with him.

Only Glorfindel, Galadriel and the Maia such as the Wise could confront a Balrog and hope to win or drive off all 9 Nazgul like that.

Did Gandalf ever use that ring? I really dotn remember? And where did he get it? That i dont remember either. Id just like to know abut f he ever had.

The rings of Power were not offensive, they were passive defensive rings. They inspired others, slowed the aging of the world and the realm and/or aided in the healing powers of those that held them. They did not allow the user to WTFOwn a Balrog. The Rings are powerful but it is a different kind of Power.

Gandalf got his ring Narya the Great from Cirdan the Shipwright, when Gandalf and his order arrived at the Grey Havens from the West. Cirdan percieved in him to be the greatest in spirit and the wisest and as such entrusted the Red Ring to him.

Well that explains a lot. Thanks a lot chief.

Originally posted by thefallen544
Elrond is an Elf Lord. But I don't think his combat ability was to the same par as say Glorfindel who was at near Maia like levels of power. As such in a stright out fight I don't personally think Elrond could win. His skills lie more in healing, farsigh and council.
Indeed. In fact, Elrond is actually part Maia being descended from Melian. I believe this contributes to Elrond's wisdom and undoubtedly in his farsight. Elrond is a master of Elvish magic or 'Art' not really a warrior.
Originally posted by thefallen544
The rings of Power were not offensive, they were passive defensive rings. They inspired others, slowed the aging of the world and the realm and/or aided in the healing powers of those that held them. They did not allow the user to WTFOwn a Balrog. The Rings are powerful but it is a different kind of Power.

Gandalf got his ring Narya the Great from Cirdan the Shipwright, when Gandalf and his order arrived at the Grey Havens from the West. Cirdan percieved in him to be the greatest in spirit and the wisest and as such entrusted the Red Ring to him.
It also states that the Ring helped sustain Gandalf and gave him the energy and zest to go about Middle-Earth on his mission. Saruman settled in one spot, but I believe that Gandalf's ring gave him the energy and restlessness to continue his work with vigor.

Elrond is a legend..He slay this one.

Originally posted by Hewkii_Dude
Elrond is a legend..He slay this one.

yea, and robin hood is a legend to. would he destroy a balrog?
.........don't think so..

Elrond would die horribly. There is no question. The balogs were some of the most powerfull Maia, more so in the movies, because PJ made Durin's Bane about 10 times bigger and added wings. Like I said, Elrond would die.

elrond.
cuz he's got the eyebrows

Wasn't the witch king the one who stabbed frodo


balrog wins
as someone mentioned there really have not been instances of a balrog being killed without killing there opponent
Elrond is not on par with a maia

Originally posted by bogen
balrog would melt his face litrally.

Gandalf on the other hand was a god like wizard and he realisticly couldn't die, i don't think illuvitar would allow it.

Realisticly Gandalf could easily die. I think there's this preconception people have that just because Gandalf was a Maiar and a wizard that he is instantly invinsible. Realsiticly he was an old man (with all due respect), that's what he was, no stouter than your grandfather. No I lie, he was physically stronger as he had the aid of Narya but then again he never wore it openly til the War of the Ring was over so it's hard to say whether it aided him. Seems so because when he was contructing the defence of Minas Tirith he gave the men there great courage and hope.

Originally posted by nenarye
The balogs were some of the most powerfull Maia, more so in the movies, because PJ made Durin's Bane about 10 times bigger and added wings. Like I said, Elrond would die.

Peter Jackson didn't make the Balrog in the movie 10 times bigger. Balogs were said to be 3-4 times the height of the average man and he wasn't far from that.

Lupin's points I all agree on.

Ninya was the strongest, as stated in the ROTK. But in saying that, Narya proved to be the most important during the War of the Ring. It helped Gandalf in many ways, in preperation to and during the siege of Minas Tirith.

Oh and Elrond would stand not much of a chance against the Balrog. As other people have already said: the Balrog was a Maiar. It takes someone of equal rank or similar to defeat him. In the movie when Boromir asks "What is this new devilry?" Gandalf replies "A Balrog. A demon of the ancient world. This foe is beyond any of you. Run." The high elves did it back in the first and second ages, but Middle Earth was way way different back then. Back then the world was new and there was a overall higher quality in the elves that made them great warriors, councellers and generally better in every way than the elves in the third age. Even though Elrond WAS from the first age he lived through the second and third and also he was not anymore involved with wars and battles and so his skills were not up to defeating a balrog and as Lupin said he specialised moreso in healing, foresight and council.

Originally posted by Aule
Vilya was the most powerful of the Elven rings, not Narya. And I quote from Rotk "The Grey Havens" 'Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his forehead, and a silver hard was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of gold with a great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the Three" Narya was known as "Narya the Great" but Vilya was the most powerful of the three Elven Rings.

This is very true. It is also worth noting that in the Unfinished Tales, Nenya was described as "chief" of the three. There are obviously numerous contradictions in the unfinished works, but it appears as if Tolkien may have been reconsidering Nenya's position to the other rings, given it's final bearer, Galadriel.

We could also discuss the difference between the mightiest and being chief. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Mightiest seems fairly straightforward, but chief could mean many things.

Gandalf said that the Balrog is beyond any of you (the fellowship). Elrond < all the fellowship.

The balrog also drove out the entire dwarf population in moria. Could Elrond do that?

And Elrond doesn't really have any "magical powers". Sure he has some healing stuff, but have you ever seen him launch fireballs or something? Therefore, he would probably burn to death upon touching the balrog.

Personally, I think the Balrog would win, but I don't think it's nearly as one-sided as everyone thinks. The Elf Ecthelion was able to kill the lord of the Balrogs, Gothmog, in single combat, although he himself was killed. It should also be noted that before that battle, however, Ecthelion killed three other Balrogs.

So, it's possible for a powerful Elf to defeat a Balrog.

Realistically speaking, Elrond would lose only because he's a short-range fighter while the Balerog has long range atttacks.

In that case, a goblin archer could beat Sauron.

Realistically, yeah. Yeah it should. Except, no, no it shouldn't. Your wrong in that Sauron wears a shitload of armor and is a magical being, whereas Aragorn is a regular human who is fighting a being a million times his strength in every way.

So no, you're incorrect.

True, true.

But Balrog pwns.

Wait, didnt Elrond fight in the War of Wrath? I think he was to young but if he did he most certainly killed a balrog then. And who knows, Elrond very could well kill a blarog, as NO ONE has ever actually seen him fight. Elrond, having had around 5000 or more years to perfect his swordsmanship and stuff, could possibly kill a blarog. I give it a good fight with no determined winner. But yes, the Witch King of Angmar WAS at Amon Sul, he just stood in the back, even in the novel. He didnt even try to fight, he just stabbed Frodo. Either him, Khamul, or Morgomir, but Im pretty sure it was him, as in the novel at Minas Morgul "and Frodo cringed at the cry, grabbing his shoulder" I think it said that or something, I just remember that the Witch King WAS there.

Isn't this spite. Elrond is a foot soldier, granted he's an Elf leader. But Balrog is a huge demon. Gandalf the Grey had trouble with him.

Someone moved this thread here from the LOTR Forum.

Yes, this is spite. Closed.