The Flash Family vs these heralds.

The Flash Family

Barry Allen
Wally West
Jay Garrick
Jesse Quick
Bart Allen

Vs

Silver Surfer
Star Dust
Nova
Firelord
Air-Walker

Fight is on a deserted class M planet and no bfr, which team wins?

Also to add that there's 2 scenarios, the first is a random encounter and t b e second both teams have a working knowledge of the other teams abilities.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So Flash #163. Wally is in bed, about to sleep, when he realises there's a bomb in his house. He takes it, runs from Keystone City (which is in Pennsylvania) to the Nevada Desert, and thinks he can get back 'in nanoseconds', as the bomb is about to blow:

https://i.postimg.cc/Vr1Jc7vx/RCO007.jpg

Problem is, as that bomb explodes, simultaneously (this is important) four other bombs will also explode, in Metropolis, Gotham, New York and (most impressively), Atlantis:

https://i.postimg.cc/Wt8ksPMX/RCO008.jpg

No problem. Flash can just track the signal back to its source, back in Kansas. Remember, all this is done in an instant - the bomb was literally about to explode when he took it from his house.

Disaster! The 'source' of the transmissions was just a relay - he needs to find out more info about the targets. But the computer is too slow - so he runs to Silicon Valley from Kansas, takes computer equipment, and amps the original computer to lightspeed:
https://i.postimg.cc/MXqBkGjn/RCO009.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/sv0GZ9HW/RCO010.jpg

Remember, again - the other bombs are exploding simultaneously with the first one, so all five bombs are about to explode when he's doing all this.

He goes to Metropolis:
https://i.postimg.cc/Gp5vBr6f/RCO011.jpg
And takes the bomb from there to Montana, into the deepest levels of an old coalmine:
https://i.postimg.cc/TKzyt26Y/RCO012.jpg

Then runs to Gotham, crisscrossing an entire neighbourhood, to find Batman:
https://i.postimg.cc/wMJ58PfG/RCO013.jpg

Disposes of that bomb 'five miles away' (lol, chump change at this point), then runs to NYC, then disposes of that bomb at the top of Mount Whitney, in California:
https://i.postimg.cc/rKptmYjc/RCO015.jpg

Remember, all this is done in the instant before the bomb explodes (he could feel the initial bomb heating up, and the other bombs are all simultaneously exploding at the same time).

Then he runs out to the Pacific, then swims down to the bottom of the ocean to disarm the next bomb.
https://i.postimg.cc/5XYY5YDR/RCO016.jpg

So to recap:

As 5 bombs are about to explode at the same time, Flash gets out of bed and dressed, runs from Keystone City (in Penn.) to Nevada, then back to Kansas, then to Silicon Valley, collects equipment, then back to Kansas, builds a supercomputer, then to Metropolis, then down a random mine in Montana, then to Gotham, searches (part of) it, then to NYC, then up the highest mountain in the US in California, then out to the Pacific somewhere, then swims down to the bottom to disarm the last bomb.

Note he did all of this in nanoseconds.

any of the flash solos

Notice how Lawest made sure not to include black flash.

Respect

I like how Flash can swim much faster than Aquaman.

Originally posted by basilisk
I like how Flash can swim much faster than Aquaman.

He can do EVERYTHING faster.

Even 1% of light speed (let alone multiples of) is staggeringly fast. People don't realise just how broken the Speed Force is.

Round 2 the heralds bombard the planet from outer space.

Originally posted by basilisk
I like how Flash can swim much faster than Aquaman.

How exactly is that surprising?

From The Lame Unadventures of Aquaman, issue 5:

https://i.ibb.co/tbv0ksz/ediaq.png

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Round 2 the heralds bombard the planet from outer space.

Heralds:"Let-"
Flashes: *speedsteal*

The Heralds win. Flash combat showings are trash tbh.

Originally posted by carver9
The Heralds win. Flash combat showings are trash tbh.

Full capacity rule, troll:


Literally states how Flash's comic showings aren't = forum performance.

I'm not going to say a character would win if he doesn't have wins against characters of this level. Flash sucks in fights. People like Damage and Konvikt stand in one spot and laugh at his attacks. Surfer destroys him and the rest of the Flashes tbh.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not going to say a character would win if he doesn't have wins against characters of this level. Flash sucks in fights. People like Damage and Konvikt stand in one spot and laugh at his attacks. Surfer destroys him and the rest of the Flashes tbh.

Didn't the Flashes destroy the Anti monitor?
Here's Wally:

https://i.postimg.cc/rpHNNVWP/4.jpg

Pretty sure Barry did something to him too...

Surfer defeated 2 Celestial level beings on his own. I don't see anyone holding him to that level. Thor has as well. Hulk. Heck, even Spiderman has withstood abstract level attacks. If we are putting these characters at that tier of power, we need to change the tier thread.

Overall, Flash is garbage.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer defeated 2 Celestial level beings on his own. I don't see anyone holding him to that level. Thor has as well. Hulk. Heck, even Spiderman has withstood abstract level attacks. If we are putting these characters at that tier of power, we need to change the tier thread.

Wait so you're moving the goalposts?

You said he didn't have wins against characters of this level

I showed he does. Far beyond, actually. Anti monitor there was so far beyond herald level it wasn't funny.

Now you say....oh but it doesn't count?

He was recently punching Antimonitor across the multiverse, lol.

Flash had help against Monitor and that's literally Flash best and only combat showing. 99% of the time, hes garbage tbh and does absolutely nothing to help the JLA against serious threats.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash had help against Monitor and that's literally Flash best and only combat showing. 99% of the time, hes garbage tbh and does absolutely nothing to help the JLA against serious threats.

You mean he was helping the others with the AM.

@Juntai good catch:
Originally posted by abhilegend
Barry punches Anti Monitor through universeS at near infinite mass.

https://i.postimg.cc/bsHzpxjq/11.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/0zVPJ9Q3/12.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/3y6hn92F/13.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/R6HB8fR5/14.jpg


And Barry isn't even the fastest one here.

Plus, speedsteal, that would amp the Flashes even more. Imagine how fast Surfer and the other heralds are...now imagine all that speed stolen from them, and then stacked on to the Flashes (remember, Wally can share speed).

That's the real ace in the hole here.

Lmmfao... at least you know the Flashes outside of one showing is basically irrelevant. Imagine us accepting just one showing from Rhino, how uber he would be. Sadly, his consistency has ruined him on KMC. Flash is Rhino. He has that ooonnnneeee showing that makes him looks relevant while the rest of his fights are shit.

Originally posted by carver9
Lmmfao... at least you know the Flashes outside of one showing is basically irrelevant. Imagine us accepting just one showing from Rhino, how uber he would be. Sadly, his consistency has ruined him on KMC. Flash is Rhino. He has that ooonnnneeee showing that makes him looks relevant while the rest of his fights are shit.

Point out the 'Average Consistency' Rule, please.



Mod rulings. If the heralds can't match Flash's speed (Barry/Wally), then they lose. Comics being full of PIS doesn't mean anything. I agree, comics are consistently full of PIS.

Edit: we can twist it around.

Captain Cold consistently does well against Flash, right? All the Rogues do.

So what happens when they get to Marvel? Do they solo the MU?

Walk this through with me:

1. Wally is faster than Death, faster than light, faster than speed, right? Y/N?
2. He consistently doesn't do well against JLA opponents, right? Y/N?
3. Therefore, these JLA opponents are.....faster than Death, faster than light, faster than speed too? Y/N?

Because if your answer to 3 is 'NO', then how do they win? Does Flash let himself get punched? Does he like it? Are all these opponents durable enough to withstand multiple IMPs?

I mean, we have Flash casually soloing WW's Rogues gallery:

https://i.postimg.cc/3kMDv19N/06-1.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/mt1HkJYK/07.jpg

They literally explain that Flash's city is a no-go for supervillains:
https://i.postimg.cc/hjC59s4L/05.jpg

And just last year there was an entire storyline where the entire Earth (yes, including Superman etc) were all too slow to fight - apart from the Flash family.

Who said anything about average consistency? You yourself argued Rhino showings as a consistency for the character. You've done this with a number of characters. Flash is NOT Anti Monitor level. Superboy Prime, Monarch and a number of others who is below Anti Monitor would work Flash.

Anyways, the scans you posted, Flash bfred them. Nice showing but i stand by what I said.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean, we have Flash casually soloing WW's Rogues gallery:

Dude, even I could do that...

Originally posted by carver9
Who said anything about average consistency? You yourself argued Rhino showings as a consistency for the character. You've done this with a number of characters. Flash is NOT Anti Monitor level. Superboy Prime, Monarch and a number of others who is below Anti Monitor would work Flash.

Anyways, the scans you posted, Flash bfred them. Nice showing but i stand by what I said.

Erm, you did, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash had help against Monitor and that's literally Flash best and only combat showing. 99% of the time, hes garbage tbh and does absolutely nothing to help the JLA against serious threats.
So wait a minute.

1. Speedsteal isn't a viable tactic?

2. Hitting a Herald with the mass of a white dwarf isn't a viable tactic?
Could any of the heralds tank (without being at least koed) one punch moving at insane speed combined with the mass of a white dwarf in the small size of a human fist? Let's not even compute the pressure and kinetic energy from such a punch.
If so give me a feat that proves it.

Going intangible isn't a viable tactic (not that flash needs to, read below)

Or most importantly
Seeing all the heralds frozen for hundreds of years is not a viable tactic?


Lastly the rules assumed that flash NEVER clocked anyone in the first millisecond of the comic when it stated that Flash is allowed to because he possesses that level of speed.

So flash possess the level of speed to statue the heralds for years, and increase his mass to a white dwarf star and above.

Originally posted by h1a8
So wait a minute.

1. Speedsteal isn't a viable tactic?

2. Hitting a Herald with the mass of a white dwarf isn't a viable tactic?
Could any of the heralds tank (without being at least koed) one punch moving at insane speed combined with the mass of a white dwarf in the small size of a human fist? Let's not even compute the pressure and kinetic energy from such a punch.
If so give me a feat that proves it.

Going intangible isn't a viable tactic (not that flash needs to, read below)

Or most importantly
Seeing all the heralds frozen for hundreds of years is not a viable tactic?


Lastly the rules assumed that flash NEVER clocked anyone in the first millisecond of the comic when it stated that Flash is allowed to because he possesses that level of speed.

So flash possess the level of speed to statue the heralds for years, and increase his mass to a white dwarf star and above.

Here you go...

https://ibb.co/7pdvRjy
https://ibb.co/QPgLNfW
https://ibb.co/fXRBnzH
https://ibb.co/M7Mbqx3
https://ibb.co/ZgxJt5G
https://ibb.co/TrCBVF0
https://ibb.co/yV6PcFw

No Girder or Grodd?

Shame on you, reported.

Originally posted by carver9
Here you go...

https://ibb.co/7pdvRjy
https://ibb.co/QPgLNfW
https://ibb.co/fXRBnzH
https://ibb.co/M7Mbqx3
https://ibb.co/ZgxJt5G
https://ibb.co/TrCBVF0
https://ibb.co/yV6PcFw

Why troll? You completely ignored what I said, especially about the rules.

Originally posted by h1a8
So wait a minute.

1. Speedsteal isn't a viable tactic?

2. Hitting a Herald with the mass of a white dwarf isn't a viable tactic?
Could any of the heralds tank (without being at least koed) one punch moving at insane speed combined with the mass of a white dwarf in the small size of a human fist? Let's not even compute the pressure and kinetic energy from such a punch.
If so give me a feat that proves it.

Going intangible isn't a viable tactic (not that flash needs to, read below)

Or most importantly
Seeing all the heralds frozen for hundreds of years is not a viable tactic?


Lastly the rules assumed that flash NEVER clocked anyone in the first millisecond of the comic when it stated that Flash is allowed to because he possesses that level of speed.

So flash possess the level of speed to statue the heralds for years, and increase his mass to a white dwarf star and above.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why troll? You completely ignored what I said, especially about the rules.

Dude the scans that both of you posted are equally valid. It shows that both sides are vulnerable. Power Cosmic can shut off a person's ability to even have a power.

Originally posted by Stoic
Dude the scans that both of you posted are equally valid. It shows that both sides are vulnerable. Power Cosmic can shut off a person's ability to even have a power.

His scans are not valid to the rules of FULL Capacity.

Flash using the IMP is a viable tactic. Flash has shown that he can increase his mass up to white dwarf star level and beyond.

Flash perceiving the heralds as frozen statues is a viable tactic. Flash has established attosecond perception. 1 attosecond to a 1 second is like 1 second is to 31 billion years. If the heralds have nanosecond perception (being generous towards them) then 1 nanosecond to them is like 31 years to Flash. So the heralds will be frozen the entire fight.

Flash stealing speed is a viable tactic. Flash has demonstrated this multiple times.


Although the following is irrelevant to the fight due to the above but are you saying that Surfer can shut off Thor's, Thanos, Darkseid, Odins, Elders,Celestial, etc power?

Originally posted by h1a8
His scans are not valid to the rules of FULL Capacity.

Flash using the IMP is a viable tactic. Flash has shown that he can increase his mass up to white dwarf star level and beyond.

Flash perceiving the heralds as frozen statues is a viable tactic. Flash has established attosecond perception. 1 attosecond to a 1 second is like 1 second is to 31 billion years. If the heralds have nanosecond perception (being generous towards them) then 1 nanosecond to them is like 31 years to Flash. So the heralds will be frozen the entire fight.

Flash stealing speed is a viable tactic. Flash has demonstrated this multiple times.


Although the following is irrelevant to the fight due to the above but are you saying that Surfer can shut off Thor's, Thanos, Darkseid, Odins, Elders,Celestial, etc power?

Flash infinite mass punch is overrated. Zoom even withstood it. Who has this punch knocked out?

Originally posted by carver9
Flash infinite mass punch is overrated. Zoom even withstood it. Who has this punch knocked out?

Well if someone withstood the mass of a white dwarf traveling at insane speed in the size of a human fist then that's impressive for that character. They get that feat, no one else does.

Zoom slows time down. So flash is not moving at relativistic speeds to him

It doesn't take away from what I said though.
Flash CAN increase his mass up to a white dwarf star and reserves that option if he needs to. He has 31 years of hitting a frozen statue to figure it out.

Originally posted by h1a8
Well if someone withstood the mass of a white dwarf traveling at insane speed in the size of a human fist then that's impressive for that character. They get that feat, no one else does.

Zoom slows time down. So flash is not moving at relativistic speeds to him

It doesn't take away from what I said though.
Flash CAN increase his mass up to a white dwarf star and reserves that option if he needs to. He has 31 years of hitting a frozen statue to figure it out.

Flash has used it twice and 2 weaklings survived it.

Nothing in the Zoom scene did not mention Zoom not withstanding the full punching power of that attack. Its overrated and I need you to show something proving it working against Surfer.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash has used it twice and 2 weaklings survived it.

Nothing in the Zoom scene did not mention Zoom not withstanding the full punching power of that attack. Its overrated and I need you to show something proving it working against Surfer.

Do you know how it works? It's based off the theory of relativity.
You have to be moving at a certain speed RELATIVE to another. If Zoom is moving near the speed that Flash is moving then Zoom will experience a small effect (or none at all).

Assuming Zoom experienced the total mass of a white dwarf then that would be a durability feat for him.
No one else gets that feat.

So what you are saying is irrelevant.

Originally posted by h1a8
Do you know how it works? It's based off the theory of relativity.
You have to be moving at a certain speed RELATIVE to another. If Zoom is moving near the speed that Flash is moving then Zoom will experience a small effect (or none at all).

Assuming Zoom experienced the total mass of a white dwarf then that would be a durability feat for him.
No one else gets that feat.

So what you are saying is irrelevant.

Zoom has been knocked out before by a number of people, and Zoom isn't the only person to withstand the attack. Also, you're applying real world logic to a comic book when we both know that's not how comics work.

Originally posted by carver9
Zoom has been knocked out before by a number of people, and Zoom isn't the only person to withstand the attack. Also, you're applying real world logic to a comic book when we both know that's not how comics work.

So either Zoom withstood the mass of a white dwarf or he didn't. Either way destroys your argument.

P1. Zoom tanked the force of a white dwarf.
Conclusion: Zoom gets a durability feat. No one else gets his feat unless they achieved the same thing or greater.

P2. Zoom didn't tank the mass of a white dwarf.
Conclusion: Doesnt change the fact that Flash has the ability to increase his mass up to white dwarf level in a forum fight.He will have over 31 years to figure it out.

None of the Heralds have any impressive speed feats sadly, they don't have a chance

Originally posted by h1a8
So either Zoom withstood the mass of a white dwarf or he didn't. Either way destroys your argument.

P1. Zoom tanked the force of a white dwarf.
Conclusion: Zoom gets a durability feat. No one else gets his feat unless they achieved the same thing or greater.

P2. Zoom didn't tank the mass of a white dwarf.
Conclusion: Doesnt change the fact that Flash has the ability to increase his mass up to white dwarf level in a forum fight.He will have over 31 years to figure it out.

He withstood Flash SUPPOSEDLY infinite mass punch and he isn't the only one. A weak white Martian did as well.

You really don't have an argument, H1. Based off showings, Surfer tanks the attack.

Originally posted by carver9
He withstood Flash SUPPOSEDLY infinite mass punch and he isn't the only one. A weak white Martian did as well.

You really don't have an argument, H1. Based off showings, Surfer tanks the attack. It was shown in comics that Flash can increase his mass up to a white dwarf star.
If weak people tank that level of mass moving at those speeds then that's their feat.

Surfer and other heralds don't get other character's feats. That's my 4th time telling you this. So please stop trolling.

Characters don't get other characters feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
It was shown in comics that Flash can increase his mass up to a white dwarf star.
If weak people tank that level of mass moving at those speeds then that's their feat.

Surfer and other heralds don't get other character's feats. That's my 4th time telling you this. So please stop trolling.

Characters don't get other characters feats.

White Martians and Zoom isn't close to being as durable as Surfer. If Zoom is thrown in a black hole or a sun, can he survive? Yes or no.

If a planet explodes on Zoom, will he tank the power from the explosion?

Originally posted by carver9
White Martians and Zoom isn't close to being as durable as Surfer. If Zoom is thrown in a black hole or a sun, can he survive? Yes or no.

If a planet explodes on Zoom, will he tank the power from the explosion? Tanking a punch that has the mass of a white dwarf is greater than anything Surfer has done durability wise. You can claim PIS if you like for the white Martian and zoom or you can claim Flash didn't hit them with the mass of a white dwarf but far less. That's your choice.

Bottomline: Surfer has no feats comparable or greater than being able to tank a punch that has the mass of a white dwarf moving at insane speeds. Therefore, he gets koed or killed by simple forum rules.

Originally posted by h1a8
Tanking a punch that has the mass of a white dwarf is greater than anything Surfer has done durability wise. You can claim PIS if you like for the white Martian and zoom or you can claim Flash didn't hit them with the mass of a white dwarf but far less. That's your choice.

Bottomline: Surfer has no feats comparable or greater than being able to tank a punch that has the mass of a white dwarf moving at insane speeds. Therefore, he gets koed or killed by simple forum rules.

So again, you're saying Zoom can tank a black hole and a planet explosion?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No Girder or Grodd?

Shame on you, reported.
TBF, Grodd is a gorilla. They are incredibly OP in comics for some reasons

Point being
https://ibb.co/2YMxdS5
https://ibb.co/kcZzHYP

Originally posted by carver9
So again, you're saying Zoom can tank a black hole and a planet explosion?

Tanking a punch that is moving at insane speeds carrying the mass of a white dwarf is far above those things.

If Zoom can tank such a punch then he can tank those things you mentioned. If he can't tank those things you mentioned then HE CAN'T tank such a punch.

Basically it boils down to whether you believe zoom can tanked the mass of a white dwarf or he can't.

If you believe he can then he can tank those things you mentioned. If he can't then he can't necessarily tank the things you mentioned

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
TBF, Grodd is a gorilla. They are incredibly OP in comics for some reasons

Point being
https://ibb.co/2YMxdS5
https://ibb.co/kcZzHYP


That's just an example of Aquaman's Omega Fail Aura affecting his allies, Qw.

^ I'm sure this was all in jest but the Flash family seems to have not definitively outspeeded telepathy as it were. Happy to compare the times they've "outrun" telepathy and been "outran" by telepathy so to speak. Might be an interesting avenue to debate. Originally posted by Juntai
He was recently punching Antimonitor across the multiverse, lol. That's BFRing, no? That's banned per the OP rules.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Didn't the Flashes destroy the Anti monitor?
Here's Wally:

https://i.postimg.cc/rpHNNVWP/4.jpg

Pretty sure Barry did something to him too...

Nope Mr. IAmWrong, he freed him from his armor.

Which only made him stronger, Anti-Matter body AM one shot the combined heroes.

Originally posted by carver9
He withstood Flash SUPPOSEDLY infinite mass punch and he isn't the only one. A weak white Martian did as well.

You really don't have an argument, H1. Based off showings, Surfer tanks the attack.

Carv I think Darksaint ran away.


YOU BEAT DARKSAINT.