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I can't wait to see Darth Vader's first appearance in his black armor in Episode III.

I cant wait to see the fight that happens right before he needs armor

I can't wait to see him either. It is gonna be so weird to see a young Darth Vader. It is gonna be even weirder they call him that (or so I heard) with out his armor on.

Me neither. I wonder if he'd be more athletic than the OT one. Even with all his injuries...

Hi, JediKnightess, welcome to the boards. Come on down in the General Discussion Forum and get your free drink at the Cloud Car Bar.

Hmmph! I never recieved that kind of warm hospitality upon my arrival. No one likes me. Sorry Queeq, just kiddin'
The issue with Anakin/Vader is where do you draw the line between the two? Even in TPM, Anakin was afraid and upset, so maybe we've seen a bit of Vader to an extent anyway.The rumoured Tusken slaughter will finish it for me...

people seem to be confussed that vader only becomes vader when he dons the black iron lung. Well surely he becomes vader as soon as he turns to the dark side? I thought (bearing in mind what obi wan says 'i once thought as you did luke' with regards to luke going to save him and turn him back) that the the duel between anakin and obiwan where anakin falls into the pit is done with anakin fully embracing the dark side and hence fighting as vader.

Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader when he completes his Sith training under Darth Sidious (Palpatine), not when he dons his black armor. Do you think Anakin will kill Darth Tyrannus or will Ben kill him?

Hmmm, this could spark much debate. I always considered that when he joined the Sith movement he received his "Darth" name.

This was reaffirmed to me by the fact that Maul was known as Darth, though he was still an apprentice.

Dunno, maybe Yes, maybe no.

Maul was an apprentice in the literal sense; it wasn't a comment on his level of training, which was obviously very high indeed.

You know, it MAY be true that Anakin only becomes Vader when he puts on the armour. We do not know, as RC says.

I always thought Darth was just Vader's first name before TPM. Hence, Ben referring to him as Darth was a display of their previous 'first name terms' friendship. Now I know it means Sith Lord, it makes Ben's lines a lot colder, what was once like "you can't win Bob" has now become like "you can't win, scumbag". If you get my meaning. Darn, I've gone off on one again.

Putting on his armour doesn't seem to be a necessity for becoming a 'Darth'. It's just a life preserver.

Yes, but GL will probably try to put the finishing touches to his change as that emotionless mask is placed over his face.I agree with you though,I think he will be well over the line by the end of Ep2.

I know the armour doesn't HAVE to be the point where he becomes Vader. It's just that it COULD be.

I think that it will be that the donning of the armour is treated as a kind of rebirthing moment and a new name "Vader" is taken at that time. The Darth being added, as correctly pointed out, when he has completed his training..

Just MHO OC.

The putting on of the helmet will probably a very emotional moment: the last time we see his face until the end of ROTJ and probably the last time his face catches any light until ROTJ.

I always felt the meditation chamber was a regular deal for Vader actually.

Yes, the helmet. But if you watched more carefully that EXCLUDED the face mask. That comes off separately, it locked to the neck. Luke had to take it off separately.
Even in de meditation chamber, all that came down was the helmet itself, not the face mask.

Yeah, I noticed that. In the scene you don't see the front, but on watching the unmasking in ROTJ, I can't see how you would not have seen the front plate in the meditation chamber.

Well that's what I'm saying, in ROTG the front plate seems to go up over the forehead but I didn't see it in the ESM shot from the back.

It probably b/c GL didn't know for sure how Darth Vader's mask would come off in ROTJ, but I don't see any huge contradictions.

Well, if the mask design structure changes that is a contradiction surely. I guess it could be that om ESB he's wearing his every day mask and in ROTJ he's wearing his Sunday best.....

Don't know that either. It was for sure not on the helmet and he turned around immediately after the helmet was placed on his head, ergo, the mask was there on his face. The ROTJ scene clearly indicates it had to be done BEFORE the helmet was placed. Didn't see Vader do that either.

Elementary.

Uhm...yes... that....sounds like a very good explanation.

Anyway, it's not much of a contradiction. It's based on what you cannot see properly. Hardly viable as an argument.

Oh I know that, but you can see it a bit and it bugs me. Guess it's back to the VCR again....

Wait for the DVD.

I'd rather find out BEFORE I'm old and wrinkly...

And is that the Empire Stikes Back DVD, the Special edition DVD, the original trilogy box set DVD, the original trilogy SE box set DVD, the full six film box set DVD......

"All of them..."

I thought the face plate was needed for his breathing?..Am I wrong on this? If that's the case then it's alway s on..

Well, that's what I thought.

It seem logical to me.

If you see ROTJ when Luke takes his mask off, there is a continuity error. In one shot the breathing device is on then the next shot over his sholder Vader is missing it. Cut back to the front and its back on.

But ignoring that small mistake, I also figured that it was always on. Maybe not the full face but at least the breathing apparatis.

Hmmm..Now I'm bugged I never noticed that the front part was on the mask in ESB!!

I don't think the faceplate was needed for breathing as such, anatomically (sp) that isn't correct. Breathing is controlled through the chest, not through the mouth, that is merely the opening to the tube that carries the air.

In order to act as a respirator, wouldn't he then need some kind of close fitting mouthpiece over his mouth and nose to force air down? Kinda like the idea when the "bag" someone to assist in breathing?

I think he did..that accounts for the stuff around his mouth. It's a bit like Plo Koon's respirator in a way. Where did you hear that he breath through his chest? I don't think that's right.

Nah, that may have circulated air, but looking at the construction of it I can't see that it was build to force air down his windpipe.

Well, for handicapped people with respirators, a tube is applied in the throat. They cut a hole in the throat, place a tuve with is connected to a breathing apparatus. But I wonder if Vader had such a thing. According to the injuries visible in the ROTJ x-ray shots, all of his neck was replaced by metal. Bet that got pretty beaten up. PLUS the masked was for his vocals as well.

Yeah, the tube idea works, but he had a voice without the mask.

Yes, but very different than with the mask on. Obviously it was modified by something. I think that's what the two little things at the sides of his mouth were for actually.
Bet he could do great impersonations..

Like little boomm mikes or something ala Britney Spears/Janet Jackson/etc?

He'd be a great DJ, but I'm sure he can do South Park, Mickey Mouse or Seinfeld. Just punch a few buttons on that chestplate of his and BINGO: instant entertainment for the entire Imperial Fleet.

I bet he can do GREAT road safety adverts.

Please explain.

I think that's some reference to The Green Cross Man who was played by Dave Prowse.

Actually, he'd probably walk more like the victim of an accident now with his short leg.

If we are talking about how Vader breathes without his mask on, he's probably using an iron lung type device.
This has been used for years on people with breathing difficulties..negative pressures in the suit cause his lungs to expand.
the modern iron lung is a massive affair that one lies in..but who's to say that advanced Starwars technology hasn't found a way for portable devices like these.
has Obi wan states, "He's more machine than man"
The mask may be to cover his scaly fizzog and scare the bejeezuzz out of people.

I guess he could have an iron lung of some type... I'm suprised they've never outlined Vader's anatomy. They outline everything else.

They did outline his anatomy, just not how the suit functions.

Well, maybe they should then. They're already half way there.

I would think that this may come out, in some kind of limitd detail, when Anakin dons the suit.

Perhaps. But explaining how the suit works is also kinda boring.

I agree, that's why I say limited detail, it would only take 30 seconds or so to do it.

The donning itself may take longer, that's a very dramatic scene. Explaining how it works is something they can cut right now, that's more something for the fan pages. IMHO OC.

Well, it could be integral, without explicitly saying it. Such as putting on the iron lung, if that is the correct thing, and removing some other life support feed.

Well, anything at this point would be nice..

Like a proper select pic?

Keep dreaming

I take that back. The last one was pretty good.

Ya think?..I want something full of interesting details...

I would like a selcet pic of Yoda standing by a big board describing exactly what lightsabres are, how they work, how they are spelt and what possible colours there are...

One for the Jedi Temple scenes there, I think!

You seem to like explanations in films, RC.

I think they're boring, IMHO OC.

RC?..don't you mean USh?..

I agree with queeq on this one..I don't want everything explained. I want something to speculate about.

I go either way on this, I think Lightsabers on chalkboards might be a little too much though.

I'm not actually that big on explanations on the screen to be honest.

What I do like is nice background "easter eggs" and stuff. Things that aren't there for the GMGP to enhance the plot, but are fun for the hardcore fans to spot on the re-seeing of the movie. Kinda like all the subtle backgrounds details that were added to the OTSE

Yeah, I was being REALLY serious, wasn't I?

Of course. You don't have a sense of humour, remember?

Damn, I don't do I?

No, you don't. Don't worry.

I'll just stand here and be miserable.

That's the Ush we know.