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Yo people,

I was just reading the latest news from theforce.net and a real feeling of pitty came upon me regarding the character Anakin Skywalker.

George Lucas seems to be commited to giving him a real bad time, and by the comments made there, they mean a really bad time. I really can't remember another film character going for such an ordeal as SKywalker. He begins his life as a slave, a particularly well humored one but a slave nonetheless, he then gets separated from his mother at a particularly vulnerable age to become a Jedi. Before he becomes a Jedi he gets into a space fight, and sees the one who would become his master get killed. Good start right. He then goes with a new master who, despite being well intentioned, doesn't really want to teach him.
In the wake of it all he gets a crush for a Princess, a slave and a princess. Impossible love followed him thru his teenage years, a time when he learns he is "the chosen one". That must really screw uo anyone's head. Then his mother is killed, in a particularly cruel and painfull way followed suit by a batlle where he must have lost a lot of friends and fellow Jedis and loses an arm!
Next he will go against his masters and his wife, must confront his old master in a fight that will have him lose a leg and get burned to a crisp, needing an armor to survive. On top of that he loses his wife, his love and his mental sanity I suppose.

Men, talk about suffering. I'll never mention Darth Vader as a villain again. He is the ultimate victim in Star Wars. The one who must mentally and phisically carry the burden of an entire universe's evil and corruption and, ultimately, make the final sacrifice to end it all. Talk about JC.

Despite talks about how bad the new films are and all that something remains. This is definitely a great story, and despite fictional it has a lot of "real life" feel to it and references to a lot of Human religions to.

the idea of the movie is that he chose voluntairly to become evil, ie start the fight with ob1

I have serious doubts about that. He didn't chose to be bad, he was meant to be bad. Inevitably. His whole life is a series of bad experiences, you must feel what you would do and think in his shoes.
Remember he is not aware of all the things happening around him. He doesn't see the "big picture". He sees bad things happening to him again and again. It is easy for Yoda and Ob1 to say he must fight those feelings when they aren't going thru them. The kid is only human, and I suspect they didn't give him the necessary suport. Even Ob1 recognizes that THEY failed.

whatever happens the choise to go evil is can only be made by the person him/herself.

The point is: Would you make that choice?
Based on what has happened so far in his life.

"I'm a Jedi, I know I'm supposed to be better then this"

if he was a real jedi, he wouldn't go evil at all

a lot of bad hgings have happened to me so far in life, but it hasnt turned me evil yet

So you wouldn't turn evil like Anakin right?

That's a big assumption. I myself have no problem admiting that bad feelings have crossed my mind, and sometimes I feel like "if only I wasn't so soft". But it's not that I'm soft it's just that I am a good person.

But the line dividing justified conflict from evil conflict is very thin indeed.

No I wouldnt turn evil, I can be bad but never evil

in a situation of war I might turn evil

No-one can be forced or obligated to be a had person, Imhotep. Anakin has free will- he makes a choice and millions, or more, suffer for that choice. Nothing excuses the evil he will perpetrate.

It is actually very important for his character development and the story that he is morally culpable for his actions- as GL says, the if the original trilogy was about how a bad man is redeemed by his son, the new one is how an angelic boy turns into an evil man. And that must not be excused else that plot does not work.

I'm not trying to "excuse" him from anything. All I'm saying is that he is led to that "decision" by the events surrounding his life. And my question is, in light of those events, if it hapened to you, how would you react.
I agree however that after sucumbing to the dark side he became really evil, probably mad too. You can already "see" that madness in Ep.II in the aftermath of his vengeance on the Tusken Raiders.

ush and finti are right...ones choices determines ones actions and ones future.....

Although I too agree with finti, Ush & RJ about Anakin "choosing" to become evil, I do see where you're coming from Imhotep.

Anakin is the most tragic of all of the SW characters. He goes through so much and there is such an expectation of him in regards to him being the chosen one. And I did FEEL for him in Ep2, something I never expected. In all of his dealings with Padme, you can see the yearning, the confusion. He does love her even if he can't and just like any teen he's torn, between love and what his elders expect of him. Then when his mother died, my heart just cried out to him, I truly felt sorry for him, even though I know what he will become I now understand WHY he CHOSE to turn.

There were many many terrible things that drove him to the edge but ultimately, Anakin Skywalker made his own decision.

Nice Thread/Post Imhotep

I still remember the first time I saw the Tusken Raiders revenge scene.
I felt like: "Cut those Mother....... heads off!!!"
I don't know about women and children, but you had to be there to feel it and to see how you would react in that situation.

But killing off my mom, using her as a slave, and God knows what else, if that didn't turn me evil, I can't think of anything else that would.

In my view, the Jedi Council, with all due respect, acted foolishly in sending Anakin alone on that mission... They should have known better even with Darth Sidious clouding their use of the force. It wasn't a matter of force, it was a matter of common sense.

Yeah, Obi-Wan thought so too.

I felt so sorry for him when his mother died and that evil glare, *shudders* so very very evil, so very Darth Vader.

And that scene back on Tatooine when he's telling Padme about what he's done, that was so amazing!! That was when I realised how much he had truly gone through before becoming evil, its so sad.

its about time that someone agrees with me that anakin wasnt ready for that mission...thanx....

yes he was, and if they ket their but on Nabbo where they should have been a lot of crap wouldnt have happened.

right finti is my young jedis. decision to be evil is decision made by him/herself

but certain precautions by the higher ups could aid in that decision...such as letting a more experienced master train him.....

there are alot of reasons that the older jedi felt that anakin shouldn't be trained maybe because they felt that he had to much anger in him. but anakin had a choice and he made that choice to become evil.

A lot of things contributed to his turning. Leaving Naboo didn't cause all of them. I mean we all do things and then look back on them and regret them. How was Anakin to know that when he left Naboo and arrived on Tatooine he would find an extended family and have his mother die in his arms?? He made the choice to leave Naboo, so did Padme. They both knew the risks but they went regardless. If my mother was ill I'D want to do anything I could to help her and going to her, to comfort her would be the first thing I would do.
Imagine how hard it must have been for him, feeling/sensing his mother in pain perhaps dying...it would tear me apart.
What was he going to do, ignore it??

an older, more experienced and wiser master could have taught him how to deal with that rage better.....plo koon or mace, for example.

true that wiser master could of taught him but look at what yoda is a master and thought that he shouldn't be trained maybe yoda felt something in the force that told him that anakin was going to turn who knows

Not necesarilly, look at Yoda and Count Dooku, Yoda trained Dooku and he ended up turning Sith.

Anakin has a personality that will lead to his downfall because he makes attachments too easily. Better teaching would have dealt with that. But the final responsibility is still his and I only feel a token sympathy for him. There is no excuse whatsoever for what he does.

Of course there's no excuse Ush, I totally agree there. But now that we've seen Anakin grow up and have all these difficulties we know WHY he is evil. Before he was evil he was good but deeply troubled. THATS why I feel sorry for him.

I would have felt sorry for him if he had NOT turned evil.

my thoughts exactly, ush and lyn.

see, in that japanese magazine where GL commented on the balance in the force he said, that anakin failing as a knight and turning dark, was needed to get the balance

How?

if only I can remember where I found it... gimme a sec; lance

EDIT: can't find it ... can someone help me out here?

I am not sure that is exactly what he said... he said that by turning Dark and then destroying the Emperor he eventually brought balance but I don;t think he said that is how it HAD to happen, just how it DID happen.

So is there an actual prophecy in the movies.?? Like written or something, do you know what I mean?? Like would the Jedi have known HOW Anakin MIGHT have brought the force into balance??

No wait, that's a little stupid. Don't mind me people, I'm just tired.

since this thread is about anakin/vader,i want to say a couple of things

i'm a huge darth vader fan,that being said,for i dont know how long,but i've been wanting to see a whole lot of vader.but the more and more i think about it,it shouldnt be known that anakin is vader.i think the last scene should and will be obie vs anakin and obie kills anakin.

my reason?

well,i feel that if i were to watch the whole trilogy from start to finish(1-6),i would be really disapointed knowing that anakin becomes darth.it would ruin one of the greatest moments in film history...when vader reveals to luke that he is his father.i remember seein that for the first time and being so shocked and exited.what a great plot twist.

now,when somebody watches 1-3,who hasnt seen the movies before,they're gonna know that darth is luke's father before the empire strikes back.that would like ruin a huge moment,and probably "the" most exiting moment in the trilogy(aside from the fight scenes of course)

so,i would rather not know that vader is anakin and lukes father,and be shocked with i see the empire strikes back.

if not,and we do know its vader...well,that spoils everything

what do you guys think??

another thing...

i keep readin that anakin never becomes a jedi or that he never was a jedi because the jedi council never gives him the title...

um,hello...anybody see the same star wars movies i did?the jedi council does not have to make anakin a jedi for him to become a jedi.in return of the jedi,sideous tells luke to join him as his apprentice,and he shall complete his training and make him a jedi.i have no doubt that the same will happen in episode 3,but this time sideous will be telling anakin that.as we've seen,GL does repeat certain things.

so what do u guys think?

I felt the same way, but I think George Lucas may be able to pull it off just right.

They were some great points you made Hater
I can understand what you mean about revealing Vader's identity. It does spoil the twist huh??
This is a little off-topic but relates slightly to your comment on "the" moment.
Recently in Oz, on TV they showed Ep1, Ep4, Ep5 and Ep6 in a period of about a month. When they advertised Ep5 they did this:
<Black Screen-writing comes up>
In 1980, 5 words changed the world...
<Black Screen-scene where Vader reveals the truth to Luke>
"Luke, I AM your Father"
It was SOOOO mad!! That just shows how great a moment that was.

I think people should watch it 4,5,6,1,2,3, that is all. It might be interesting to watch them all in sequence but you simply have to accept that the new trilogy was made with the fact that people had already seen the old trilogy in mind. The new trilogy doesn't even WORK on its own. They haven' explained who the Jedi are and what the Force is- the only reason we know these things is because we have seen the original films. The only reason any of it has any resonance is because we have seen the orignal films. So people will just have to watch them in filming order in future- that is how it was designed.

Incidentally, it is rather obvious that the Jedi have to make someone a Jedi, you have to be admitted to the Jedi Order to become one! Being a Jedi isn' a state of mind, it is being part of the organisation called the Jedi Order! It's like a vigilante claiming to be a policeman- no matter how much crime he fights, he's not a policeman unless he is a member of the police force!

i was going by what GL said himself.he said that the trilogy is to be seen in sequence

watch ROTJ.sideous himself says that he will complete his(luke's) jedi training but i see what you're saying

Completing his training and making him a Jedi are not quite the same thing, really. QGJ says that Maul was 'highly skilled in the Jedi arts' but that doesn't make Maul a Jedi- they just use the term 'Jedi training' to mean 'Force training' presumably because the two are synonomous.

I appreciate that GL says that but the evidence rather points otherwise, doesn't it? That Anakin is obviously Vader being the most important part of it.

I guess completing just means understanding the power of the dark side and be able to use that.

So Ush, are you saying Maul wasn't a Jedi??
Sorry if I took that wrong...

Errr... well, obviously he wasn't...

its obvious that jedi/sith fighting arts are very similar.

I mean I know he wasn't a Jedi, he was a Sith but, oh don't worry about it, being silly AGAIN...

Siths are trained in Jedis way (at least Maul was according to QGJ after his first encounter with himl)though not with the same code......obviously

Yeah, they all have similar styles, but some are just fast paced and more agressive.

because they uses emotion that are forbidden to the jedis

Yes.

Anger
Fear (hardly any, but it's still there)
Aggression

Thanx people
In the future though, just ignore me if I say something stupid

We shall not ignore anyone!

even the stupid!

just teasin lyn.you never sound stupid or close to it

True that.

Thanx guys I think though, sometimes I ask things and then after I've posted it I realise how silly it sounds or that it's already been answered.