EPIII theory

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yerssot
I think that someone asks OB-1 a favor in EpIII, but he refuses because he is still down from the failing of Anakin. So someone asks his help
"Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope."
"Mylady, you're mistaken, I'm Ben Kenobi, my brother died years ago!"

What do you think???

Ratcat
Anakin doesn't fall in II, in fact he may not fall until very late in III, at least completely where everyone knows he has turned.

Rehashing an old line from ANH, Eugh....

As for the Ben Kenobi name, he uses that on Tatooine, not to hide from his friends but to maintain a low profile.

Episode-III takes place 2-3 years after Episode-II, so a line like "He dies years ago" would be out of place.

Anakin ends Episode-II still pretty much on the side of good, with hints of his emerging evilness throughout the movie. Though he may be a few lbs lighter near then end than he was at the beginning. laughing out loud

yerssot
Hey could try,
and I think that being called Ben or Obi-Wan doesn't change alot.
I mean, you're still a Kenobi

Ratcat
But Kenobi could be like Smith or Jones or it could be like Nasasahasalam.

We don't know how common the name is.

yerssot
Why rename than? He comes to Tattooine every episode

Ratcat
YIt's not like he stands in the center of Mos Espa shouting "Who-hooooooo, Obi-Wan is in da house!"

And he hardly goes to Tatooine at all until he settles there.

In Episode-I he never left the ship, he doesn't go to Mos Espa or any where else for that matter.

He doesn't visit Tatooine in Episode-II.

He probably does in Episode-III, but only to deliver Luke to the Lars and possibly to begin his hide out.

The only knowledge of Obi-Wan that the denizens of Tatooine have is over the news, if they ever talked about the great Hero Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Remember, he hides his house far away from anyone esle, on the edges of the Jundland wastes, where people hardly ever visit. I'm sure that any unwanted visitors could just be "convinced" they had never been there.

He is referred to by Owen as a hermit, I would imagine that he spends nearly 20 years on Tatooine with very little contact with anyone.

Dim
If the Empire does hunt down the Jedi then I would think that there would be quite a few greedy people willing to turn a jedi in for profit..and remember..Luke didn't know that Ben was a jedi. So it goes along that feeling that Obi-Wan changed his name for safety reasons. Plus the Jedi come to be ridiculed by the common people..maybe saying you're some big time Jedi Master is just asking for someone to try something.

Ushgarak
Obi-Wan does say that he hasn't used his name since BEFORE Luke was born...

Ratcat
Agreed, but also remember that he does have a talent for exaggeration.

Ushgarak
I'll forgive him that because he has a nice beard.

Be interesting to see whether that statement turns out to be true or not.

yerssot
Probably not, but it would form a great link beween OT and PT

Dim
Well, even though it might not be "technically" true, the idea he dropped Obi-Wan a long time ago is still valid.

yerssot
A while ago I had my questions about OB1 and Ben being the samme person.
But sw.com says that they are the same: Obi-Wan Kenobi (Ben)

They did a lot of effort with Sidious and Palpa but they are the same, (I guess)

Ushgarak
I;m sorry; there was ever a question of them being different people?!

yerssot
No,
I had my doubts, espaccially you had the following thing:
C-3PO: Seethreepio
R2-D2: Artwodeetoo
OB1: Obi-Wan

For that I had my doubts, but it was something stupid, never mind

LanceWindu
I have friends who think that Sidious and Palpy are totally different. What should I tell them so they know the truth?

yerssot
Say nothing,
a lot of people think that they are the same, but it isn't showed in the movies (yet)

LanceWindu
I can't wait to see the looks on their faces when they do find out.

yerssot
I saw a pic on sw.com where you could see under his cape (=Sidi) but it isn't Ian, so is he still the same?

Dim
No, they're the same...that's just there to confuse you. rolling on floor laughing

yerssot
Very nice, very nice indeed confused confused

LanceWindu
Well they used someone else for ESB. Maybe they did the same here except just for a promotional photo.

yerssot
It would be a big shock when Sidi and Palpa wouldn't be the same person.

LanceWindu
But why would they be two different people? Emperor Palpatine and Darth Sidious are the same person, just look at their faces.

yerssot
When?

King Jedi
In every scene. Listen to the voice. I honestly can't believe that people think it's two different people. roll eyes (sarcastic)

yerssot
That pic is bothering me

LanceWindu
Just don't pay any attention to it.

yerssot
But it is on sw.com!

Ushgarak
But in the FILM the two people are both played by Ian McDiarmid! Never mind anything else.

yerssot
BUT in ESB the Emperor was portrayed by a woman and a chimp. So that doesn't say anything.

Ushgarak
Of course it says something! Jeez...

What, you think they ACCIDENTALLY cast Ian in both parts? Don't be so silly. The fact that for TPM Sidious and Palpatine were played by the same person is an amazingly obvious indication of something.

That Clive Revil and a made-up image played the Emperor in ESB is utterly irrelevant.

yerssot
But I want to be silly big grin

GL said that there will be a big surprise in EpII; and I thought that them not being the same person would be a very big surprise.

BTW: I don't think that there will be any surprises left in EpIII because we have AOTC and ANH so we know what has to be changed.

King Jedi
If they are different people then what happened to the other one in the OT?

yerssot
Don't know, maybe killed by Palpa, this is basicly the same with Ben and Obi-Wan.

Didn't someone found it strange that he is called Ben during ANH and ESB but after Yoda died in ROTJ Luke calls him suddenly Obi-Wan. But they ARE the same person.

finti
Well Yerssot, you do agree that The emperor and Palpy are the same right? Assuming you agree, listen to the music played in the bacground when the Viceroy is hologramed by Sidious. The music is the same as what we hear when the emperor is around in ROTJ. To me that would mean that Palpy and Sidious are the same. All characters of SW have their own musical theme, and since Palpetine/Emperor match Sidious theme. ..... smile

yerssot
Let's say that I'm 80% convinced. Still this would be a major surprise

queeq
But not a likely one.

finti
Will a hammer blow to the head make it 100%? big grin laughing out loud

queeq
He's Belgian, try fries instead. big grin

jedi212guy
Yerssot is hopeless. wink

yerssot
Thanx.

What I mean with this all is that in ESB it was a big surprise that Vader was Lukes father. Now for the middelst movie of the PT another big surprise would be welcome, with something nobody would expect.

queeq
Like.... like..... Palpy being Anakin's father... eek!

King Jedi
Shmi being a Sith! roll eyes (sarcastic)

yerssot
Actually, that was said already (both the things)

King Jedi
And there both wrong.

queeq
They were?????? How can you be so sure?

King Jedi
Because Shmi ISN'T a Sith!! It's the most ridicoulus idea ever.
A little old lady by day.
But an Evil Sith lord at night.
Where does she keep her sabre? Where does she keep her ship? laughing out loud Why does she let her son go with the Jedi?

The only thing more crazy is if Jar Jar was made a Senator. mmmm......wait a minute? eek!

queeq
Maybe Watto's Shmi's secret lover and keeps her ship hidden underneath all that junk. And the sabre is easily hidden that little house she has, it's not that anyone searched the place or anything. And she had plenty of clothes on to hid it somewhere.

And she sent her little boy with the Jedi because she has this ingenious plot to overthrow the Jedi: from within. This way he infiltrates the Jedi, learns their secrets and weak spots and then *BANG* he turns bad and kills them all. Shmi has the ultimate revenge.

King Jedi
And maybe 3-PO is re-programmed by Shmi to become an assasin droid!
Or maybe Sio Bibble is planning to overthrow Palpatine and become The Emperor himself!
Or maybe Panaka IS Boba Fett!
Or maybe Qui-Gon's spirit entered Obi-Wan when he died and enabled Obi-Wan to grow a beard! evil face

queeq
I see you're almost as well informed as I am.

King Jedi
laughing out loud There are only the GOOD ideas.

darthyogi
I used to think Palpatie and Sidious were the same person...

Then Lucas put the word 'Clone' in the title of his next movie, so now I'm not so sure.

And yes, I know Clones have always been associated with Star Wars, at least by inference, the Clone Wars and so on - but until now we had no reason to suspect the Clones were more than drone-like troopers. But this Sidious/Palpatine thing leads me to suspect more.

Maybe Sidious had himself Cloned (as Palpatine) to infiltrate the senate. Maybe they are different people, but Sidious is mind-controlling Palpatine from a distance? Maybe the senate is riddled with carefully placed puppet-clones under Sidious' control?

yerssot
I thought distance was a problem?
*looks at Ush*

Ushgarak
Depends what you mean by control. But it's still nonsense.

BTW, Darthyogi... as far as I can remember, all the early clone rumours (Maul, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and yes even Palpy) were about main characters, not massed troopers. People have been doing the Palpy is a clone thing for ages, desperate to try and make Sidious' revalation more of surpirse (which is missing the point).

I can't utterly, utterly rule it out, but it is massively unlikely.

queeq
Very. SW is simple people. Very few "plans within plans".

King Jedi
I'm still having trouble with the TPM plot. roll eyes (sarcastic)

queeq
That's because it wasn't that well made. stick out tongue

King Jedi
No, it's because it was far more complicated than the OT.

yerssot
It's all about Palpa manipulating every one, even if there is a little surprise (annakin). And that Palpa and Sidi are the same would be the surprise in EpII.

queeq
It's not complicated at all. there's just a lot of side stuff and a lot of subtlety that makes it less direct.

King Jedi
That makes it more complicated than the OT doesn't it?

The OT was very direct. Save a Princess, destroy the Death Star, defeat Vader.

TPM was settle a Trade Dispute and other political stuff like this. I'm still not sure why Palpatine wanted Padme to sign a treaty. confused

yerssot
If the tready was signed he could say that the chancelor didn't do a thing about the situation and he would cast a vote of no-confidence, with the symphaty for them and the power of Sidi, he was voted for Chancellor, he could just manipulate his way trough

queeq
You think? If the bureaucrats controlled by the TF control the Senate? I doubt that.

That thing had me puzzled too, KJ. And I wonder if that has to do with complexity and not with weird storyline.

yerssot
In wich other way would Palpa become supreme chancelor?
Otherwhise he had to say:
"I control the TF and it was all my idea."
Wouldn't work I guess

Ushgarak
But the sympathy of the Senate was clearly on the side of Naboo, control or no control.

Palpatine would have become Chancellor while riding on the martyrdom of the dead QUeen, unified th Repuiblic and freed Naboo himself being the hero of the hour.

Instead, he used the Queen's personal appearance to become Chancellor. The Jedi messed up his plans for Naboo and killed Maul, but all in all things could have gone a lot worse for him.

yerssot
With or without the tready, he would still become the chancelor

queeq
So what you're saying, Ush, is that Palpy wanted the treaty signed because that'd be a trap for the queen. The NEimodians would assasinate her?? But Sidious only told them to sign the treaty.

Ushgarak
I rather trust Qui-Gon on that one.

'They will kill you if you stay'.

queeq
Yes, but QGJ also thought Maul was after the queen.

Ushgarak
Which he was.

queeq
Was he? He seemed to me to be the guy to take out the Jedi so they couldn't interfere with the Neimodians' plot. Which means he was after the Jedi and not after the queen.

yerssot
Nah, the only reason that Maul was sent was because the ship was out of the TF's range.
So Mauls appearance wasn't that planned.

Ushgarak
queeq, Sidious specifically ordered Maul to kill the Jedi because then there would be nothing to stop him taking the Queen.

yerssot
Let it be clear for everyone: Maul WON'T return in epII

King Jedi
He isn't?

yerssot
GL saying: he's done, he's history, that's why he is cut in two, didn't gave it away

Ushgarak
Yes, they have left us in no doubt that there is no Maul ever again.

Jameous Woodshire
Yep, he's gone.

But I did like the theory that he would be back on some sort of bionic ball he could roll around on!

Now that is so outragous I had to laugh first time I saw it. laughing out loud

queeq
He's gone???? That's not what I've heard. evil face

Ushgarak
I thought the idea of him floating around on a grav belt was funnier.

queeq
THAT's what I heard. big grin

King Jedi
I know he's not coming back, I was just kidding.

queeq
Now, be honest now, KJ.

King Jedi
Okay I had a little doubt. big grin

queeq
When you look deep into your heart you know he's coming back. big grin

yerssot
The theory of Maul coming back is just from the idea that Maw (name is similar...) is also cut in half but still lifes and fight (see Dark Forces II)

King Jedi
Queeeeeqqqqq what have you done! roll eyes (sarcastic) smile

queeq
Tell me. evil face

King Jedi
You've started the "Is Maul coming back?" thing again! rolling on floor laughing We're doomed!

I suppose it gives us something to talk about since there is NO info anymore. TFN and JediNet haven't updated with anything decent for weeks.

Ushgarak
Maw had to be the stupidest thing ever...

From a story point of view bringing back Maul would be so utterly redundant, of course. It would nullify the point of his existence which was to look cool, feel evil and then die.

queeq
Oh no, he's getting serious again *makes sign of the cross*.

Hey, KJ, I don;t have my title for nothing. evil face

yerssot
Are there any theories of EpIII?

queeq
My theory is that it's going to be the third movie of a six part series.

Ushgarak
Oooh, anger growing at queeq's silly reply...

yerssot
Well, at least we know that Annakin and Vader are in the movie

King Jedi
How do we know that? *runs and hides* wink


My only hope for Ep3 is that we see Padme die.

yerssot
You're cruel

queeq
Nah, she shouldn't die. She should die in between movies I think.

yerssot
And then no-one would know for sure

queeq
We do. "She died when I was very young" - Princess Leia.

yerssot
Than I ask the question: WHEN?

queeq
When Leia was very young.

yerssot
roll eyes (sarcastic)
At wich age was that??? When EXACTLY?

ToMacco
I'm telling you guys, Anakin is going to kill her in III.

How can you have a darker ending than that?

Ushgarak
This isn't Blake's 7, you know. It won't be THAT dark, it's just a relative thing.

How can Anakin possibly kill Amidala and not learn of his kids?

queeq
Indeed. I doubt that we'll see the twins grow a little older. I think we'll see the birth, Luke taken off to Tatooine and Palpy in full control of the galaxy and that's it.

As for Leia's age, if we can apply what we know from real life, we know that people don't remember anything (or hardly anything) from before the age of four. So my guess is that Leia was somewhere between 3 and 5 when her mother died.

yerssot
We don't know if in SW that's still the same

Ushgarak
But why assume otherwise? Leia is human, after all. No need to overcomplicate.

yerssot
humanOID

Ushgarak
No, human. We can certainly assume that all those human-looking people are human.

yerssot
If you say so...

Ushgarak
Why assume otherwise? Again, that is over-complication. They look, sound and act human and are clearly presented as human.

King Jedi
She's definately human but she's also strong in the force and is the daughter of the chosen one. And Jedi kids are trained very young so she might be able to remember things from when she is a very young baby.

yerssot
In startrek there are other species that look like humans but are all from different planets

King Jedi
Leia is definatley human. Her mother and father are both human.

yerssot
What I'm trying to say is that they look like humans, act like humans and do like humans but chimps can do that also

Ushgarak
But AGAIN, yerssot, you are assuming too much. Most of the people in SW are presented as being human. You have absolutely NO basis whatsoever to say that they aren't. Nothing at all. Hence trying to say that they might not be human and so work on different rules cuts no ice whatsoever.

queeq
Who says Leia was ever trained as a Jedi, KJ? That is mere assumption and I doubt that she was.

Yerssot, you're just in the humanoid game to piss Ush off. And you're succeeding.

Dim
I think people who get wrapped up in EU assume that lot..

sand person no. 10
is there not some quote from c3po about him not understanding human behaviour or something like that, case closed.

queeq
confused

yerssot
He means that 3PO said human behavior and not humanoid behavior.

I'm not sure about them being human, because you have some of Alderaan and Correlia who look the same, so they aren't human, that is bound to one planet (namely earth), so they are humanoid

queeq
People from Africa looke diferrent from the Europeans and so do Chinese, Asians, Aboriginals.... you'd call them humanoid as well?

yerssot
Humans are from earth.
Humanoids are looking like humans, but they aren't from earth

sand person no. 10
anakin also saysin tpm that he's the only human who can do podracing.

Ushgarak
Ok, yerssot, they are a species that is identical in every way to humans and use English on their tractor beam controls.

So why treat them as anything different from human?

sand person no. 10
what makes you think that the original "humanoids" came from earth, maybe were the humanoids and another species were the original humans, it is impossible to say. Perhaps Dr Spock was one of the original humanoids. big grin

yerssot
I'm saying that GL misplaced the word human, strictly a human is someone from the planet Earth and not Corrilia or Alderaan.

Ushgarak
If he wants to make them human in his world they can be, and we don;t have much ground to say otherwise.

yerssot
What will happen to Mace Windu?
Will he fight Annakin?

LaurenE147
A humanoid is not human it just has a form similar to that of humans. Spock was a humanoid the only difference was the ears.

yerssot
ok ok, they're all human (djee!)
What I'm wondering:
how will Mace Windu die? Not of age I hope

Ushgarak
Interesting question. Well, I guess we can kick around with the following ideas:

1. Killed by Anakin on his rise to the top
2. Killed by Dooku and/or Sidious when they make their final move
3. Dies in a last stand at the Clone Wars
4. Sacrifices himself to the Force in some weird way making the whole Ghost Trick possible... (bit of an outsider, that one)

yerssot
What I hope is that Annakin kills him,
that's the master of the JC against the Chosen One.
That with his battle against OB1 would be a great action sequence

queeq
Yup, I'd like to see Anakin carve him up, after being such a jerk in the Jedi Council in TPM. big grin

King Jedi
I think Mace will join Sidious and Dooku. Not as a Sith, just a Dark Jedi. Lucas said that in TPM one member of the JC already knew what was happening with the Sith. It has to be Mace.



Because she has NO clue about the force. "you have a power I don't even understand.......I could never have" - ROTJ.
Plus millions of other reasons.

queeq
Mace a dark Jedi???? Hmmmm, nice. But I wouldn't mind an evil Anakin slicing a good Jedi council member....

King Jedi
Or a bad one. When Palpatine is finished with Mace, Anakin might get rid of him. evil face

queeq
It would still seem like sort of a good deed. We don't need that. evil face

yerssot
Why Mace, it could well be Plo Koon or someone else.
Don't know if it makes a difference. But Mace, I don't think that.

queeq
Plo Koon? Na, too obvious.

finti
I dont think it will be Mace, GL has been criticized for "racism" before and I dont think he let the Afro American be a baddie.
Maybe a bit naive from my part.

queeq
No. Good point really.

yerssot
well, there isn't a white human on the council, Gallia and Windu are black... so IF there is a spy, GL would be a rasicst again

Ushgarak
Racism is the language of relativism; it is impossible for GL to be racist towards whites because that is the default via which his racism would be judged by.

Hardly as if we can accuse of of under-representation of whites, anyway.

queeq
All the heroes are white. I guess the PT needs one black hero as well. Mace as the Lando of the PT. big grin

Dim
Lucas isn't racist... he simply see's the world through a white man's perspective. (deal with it, everyone has a racial perspective) That's how things are.

queeq
We are? *SHOCKED*

But she's right, we look at things from our own perpective, from the way the world looks like in our daily lives.

yerssot
But will there be a traiter in the council? and who???
I don't think it's yoda, mace or mundi, they're too big. More yaddle or Even something; the ones you don't know...

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