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does anyone think that vader/anakin becomes less powerfull as he becomes more machine than man...?

His mechanical parts (most of his body) don't contain any midi chlorians....

we may see anakin peak as a dark jedi first, then become a little less powerfull as a mechanical sith lord....

ok, maybe not......

Well that was one of the excuses as to why the lightsaber duels are slower in the OT. Because Darth Vader is mainly made of machine he can't focus the Force as much on his body and so he has slower control.

Either that, or the actors were just too old

That and the poor special effects of that time.{not that they were all that bad}

I can't understand why they were so slow. I don't think it was the old age, because then they wouldn't be using Christopher Lee in Episode 2, otherwise he would make the duel in TPM look amzing compared to Episode 2, whereas they obviously want to do vice-versa.

I think the sword fight in ANH was a minor element at the time with the explosion of the death star being the "big finale" I think the emphasis was almost more on the "elegance" of the swordsmanship, particularly on the part of Obi-Wan, being the older, distinguished "good guy" vs. bad guy Darth Vader. At the time, at least in my 14 year old mind, the action was with our heroes, trying to get back aboard the Falcon, get the droids, and get the heck out of there, all of which was accomplished by, and only by, Obi-Wan a) deactivating the tractor and b) occupying Vader's attention (and most of his troops hanging around the docking bay). By the time TPM was released, we were all salavating for not only a BIG swordfight but MORE swordfights period. Thus the ANH swordfight was a only an element in a series of events that brought us to the climax of the deathstar battle and its ultimate destruction.

Hmmm, if Vader is supposed to be worse with old age

(in the book Shadows of the Empire he would take on like 2 or 3 of the best dueling droids at their hardest settings, custom made for him by whoever desgined them, and just totally waste them)

I can't wait to see him in action in Episode 2 (which BTW I reckon should be called "The Clone Wars"

Yes,but having "Wars" in the title twice doesn't sound to good.

I agree. Also, I heard that Lucas makes his titles refer from the Dark Side and then to the Light Side. What I mean is that:

Episode 1 was called "The Phantom Menace" referring to Sidious, a member of the DARK side.

Episode 4 was called "A New Hope" referring to Luke and Leia, members of the LIGHT side.

Episode 5 was called "The Empire Strikes Back" referring to the Empire led by the Sith, members of the DARK side.

Episode 6 was called "Return of the Jedi," reffering to Luke a member of the LIGHT side.

Therefore I doubt Episode 2 would be called "The Clone Wars," as Clones are made by the bad guys, whereas the title should be pointed to the Light Side. "Fate of the Republic" or something like that.

I agree DD, EP 2 will have a "nice" name. Something like "The Rise of a Hero" or something like that. You know the 3rd one will be call either "Fall of the a) Republic b) Jedi, or maybe Rise of the Empire or the Revenge of the Sith.

Rise of the Empire/Sith would sound best, I think.

Darth Vader was more powerful as a cyborg versus when he was human. Think about it. Superior reflexes due to machine parts coupled with his (near) mastery of the Dark Side (in addition to being angrier than the ever). Darth Vader IS much more dangerous as a cyborg.

I'm not so sure. Isn't Vader meant to be worse with his mechanical body parts? They are not really part of his body and therefore he has difficulty using the Force to control them as well as he would with his real limbs.

Perhaps. I've that also.

And it was also Nick Gillard's excuse as to why the lightsabre duels are faster in the PT. Anakin is a strong Jedi Knight, but after his fall into the lava he looses much of his strength and power.

this means that anakin in Ep2 twice as strong as he is when he's vader

That makes for a rather scary thought. Do you think he will have
attained a level of power great than other Jedi?

His
line in ANH seems to point to him not having attained full Jedi
status when he left.

"When I left you I was but
the learner, Now I am the Master!" or something like that.

Good point RC. If Anakin is the Choosen One you'd think he'd
be able to defeat Obi-Wan. Ben does say in ANH that Anakin was
a Jedi Knight, so I'm assuming that he make it, perhaps towards
the end of EP2? I guess there is something Obi-Wan does to show
Anakin why he is the master. Or maybe Anakin spares OB1 "
I still feel the good in him..." but OB1 knows what Anakin
has become and won't let him, and somehow OB1 knocks him into
the lava pit.

That was my next point, will Anakin become a Jedi Knight, he
could still be a learner and be a knight. Just on a different
level, ie from Knight to Master.

Anther question as
well, will OB1 become a master, I know that Luke refers to him
as such but was he really a Jedi Master ot just a Jedi Knight?

In the EU(I know its not cannon)it says a Jedi declares themselves
a Master when they feel they reach that "higher level"
In one of the books, I forget which one, Luke tells someone Obi-
Wan never declared himself a master because of what happened
to Anakin. The way I think it works though is if your apprentice
becomes a Knight you become a Master, based on that Obi-Wan would
become a Jedi Master.

I was wondering if that might be the case (the last bit). It
would seem a presumptious for any Jedi to be proclaiming themselves
a master though.Kind of illfitting with the rest of the known
Jedi culture.

The strange thing I heard a while back (I'm not sure if this
is false) is that Rick McCallum said, "During the course
of the next film we will see Anakin become a Jedi Knight and
then a Jedi Master."
How could Anakin become a Master
at such a young age and without training a pupil of his own?
I can't remember where I read that, but it was certainly
on an episode 2-based website.

Ani doesn't even finish his training before he goes to the dark side

"ONLY A MASTER OF EVIL DARTH...."

XC!! huh?...(I'm lost) but yeah I agree that Anakin couldn't be a master at such a young age...

Didn't someone say that to become a master you need to have trained a padawan to Knight status? I certaily doubt Anakin will have the opportunity to do that. Although there is a Jedi hopeful in the film played by a little Chinese girl (Phoebe something, I can't remember).

Hey Dim! how are ya?!....sorry, that was just a quote and reference to Darth Darft's jedi master comment(anakin being jedi master)....ya know, the OB1 line from ANH....

I don't think anakin ever becomes a master...It just does not fit into the story.

"when I left you I was a learner, now I am the master"...He obviously turns to the dark side prior to the completion of the jedi training...I'm not even sure he becomes a full fledge jedi knight...

from padawan to sith lord...

You've got a point with that learner line XC...it would seem to me that Anakin would turn right before he's ready to take the trials if you look at it from a timeline perspective...EP3 should take place when he's around 22 right? (okay, that's not RIGHT before but you get the point, most of his training is completed)

Perhaps McCallum didn't mean Jedi Master in the usual meaning of the word. Perhaps he just meant that Anakin will become such a powerful Jedi that he would practically be considered a master Jedi.

I think people just get confused, and no, you don't have to have a pupil to be a master

Really? I actually thought that might be the case if Obi-Wan doesn't manage to train Anakin to Jedi Knight status, as Obi-Wan is reffered to as a Jedi Master in all source books.

so, he is, what's your point??

Erm, I'm just saying that if Obi-Wan doesn't manage to train Anakin to Jedi Knight status and yet Obi-Wan is a Jedi Master then that would mean that you don't need to fully train a pupil to become a Jedi Master. I was agreeing with what you were saying, not arguing.

Getting back to the original question raised I don't think Vader's powers would be any weeker because he is in his machine-like form as opposed to when he was still Anakin. I could easily be wrong but I don't remember any mention of midi-chlorians in the OT. besides I think the main goal Lucas had in making Vader mostly machine was symbolic. I think Lucas was trying to show that when Anakin turned to the dark side and became Vader he became just another "machine of the state" carrying out all of the state's wishes. He wasn't his own person anymore he was a tool of the Empire. I think this is shown even further that it is more for symbolism in the ending scene in RotJ when Luke unmasks his father. It's almost as though when Luke unmasks his father he's taking off the machine role that Anakin has played.

I agree. The whole "Empire" and the Emperor w very much based on Hitlers Nazi Germany. (Please this is a reference and no one wants ot debate the rights or wrongs of Adolf Hitler)

Anyway, the Emperors dislike of non-humans, the structure of regional governors, even the officers uniforms and the name Stormtroopers.

I wonder if Lucas ever suffered racial hatred in his youth that influenced the feel of the Empire?

I think it was probably in the media alot in his youth..He was born in 44' so I'm sure he heard alot of discussion of the Nazi regime when he was young. Probably when you put this with his teen/young adult years when the Civil Rights movement you can see a bit where his view of the Empire might have orginated.

Sorry to go back to what I was saying earlier, I just wanted to say that it was on theforce.net where it said that Rick MacCalum stated that Anakin would be a Jedi Master.

Just wanted to clear it up.

Yeah....but you know, that's Rick...I don't think he always pays attention to what he says..He calls people by the wrong names ya know..

He's the producer after all. His main concern is with the viability of the product to make money. Actual plot and fans comes second to that.

Strange how fans can know more than the crew. I reckon there's a hell of a lotta things that we know about Star Wars that GL doesn't. He probably doesn't read any of the EU, and even with the films themselves, I bet he doesn't know that the thermal detonator that Leia holds is worth 20,000 credits.

I agree, DD...besides George doesn't have to time to read books or surf the web reading every SW site there is.

re darth daft.

who said the clone wars refer to the baddies? If there is a war started and clones are involved who said they have to fight for the baddies. Droids can be made straight away so if an army of droids invades you would need to make your own big army anf if you are say naboo and dont fancy your chances with jar jar again why noyt use cloning? Isn't there a rumour that naboo is the only planet that can clone or something ?

I guess you have a point. I suppose the fact that it is believed that all Stormtroopers are clones has made us assume that clones are the domain of the baddies.

what if one of the key points for the next film is the stealing of this cloning technology by the dark forces or the trade of it in return for something such as anakin.

OK, now see here! You have far many good ideas to be a newbie at this....

I like that idea, that could be a fantastic plot line.

I could see the stealing of the technology but the trading for Anakin just doesn't make sense. Anakin is a person, do you think he is just lying around saying please trade me for that valuable information, No, he is a jedi, why would you trade a jedi for info, and if you did, could you see the Jedi going along with it?