Why couldn't Qui Gon , and Obi-Wan sence Palpatine

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Starstione
I was watching Phantom Menace, and they did not to me sense he was evil! Any input will be greatly appreciated!

Mace23
Yoda said it best. "Hard to see the darkside is" I think that about covers it. Maybe it's one of the reason's he becomes so powerful. If the Jedi can't detect him then he has the time to develop his power to the fullest. Or maybe because he is so powerful he can hide it.

UnknownBountyHunter
Good point Mace.

Darth Heinous
Darth Sidious/Paplatine had a Sith amulet that masks the Darkside which made him undetectable to the Jedi Knights.

Ratcat
Where'd that come from, the info not the amulet?

queeq
Now hold on. That amulet doesn't sound very canon to me. And furthermore, Sith can be sensed somehow. OB1 does ("I have a bad feeling about this. Elsewhere, elusive"wink and os does the Council. How else did they manage to find out that the "queen's attacker" was a Sith? I doubt they slid down that generator chute to pick up the pieces. So Sith CAN be sensed, but very hard.

It is still strange though that they cannot even sense it while being in the same room with Palpy.

queeq out

Darth Heinous
You asked. I gave you an answer (not THE answer) from a book about the Sith.

queeq
OK, makes sense now. I call that EU and not canon. Would you mind very much if I dismiss that argument then?

queeq out

Ratcat
As queeg points out they were times when the Sith presences was hinted at in the force but was "elusive".

I would say that in general, if you don't know what your looking for and it is being concealed then it is hard to find it, even from a few yards away.

Once the Jedi have ideantified the palpatine is the focal point I think you will find that they can track him with greater ease because they know hwta to search for and can therefore link a remenant in the force to it's source.

Unfortunately, buy the time that happens I think Palpatine will have all his piece in play and it will be to late.

We have to remember that the ultimate outcome has already been decied and that is kind off where EpII&III are lead to.

Darth Daft
The amulet. Was it that brooch on Sidious' cloak that you can see in the VD?

Ratcat
Nah, it's an EU think so it isn't in the canon.

Darth Daft
On this "sensing" topic, I believe that members of the Lightside can't sense the Darkside very well and vice-versa. This could have something to do with "the Balance of the Force," which hasn't been properly explained yet and it might also explain why Palpy and Vader couldn't sense Obi-Wan or Yoda.

Jedi Mercenary
they can't sense him

queeq
Now, hold on again. Vader DID sense Ob1's presence in ANH. "I sense something, something I've felt not since..." and "A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master."

So there is a way of sensing tremors in the Force both up close (Vader in ANH) and at a distance (OB1 in TPM).

That balance in the Force thing might indeed be the clue to unravel this mystery.

queeq out

Ratcat
Remember that OB1 and Ani will have a close working relationship
during the 10 year can from TMP to EpII. It is likely that a
master and padawan become "attuned" to each other,
hence vaders ability to detect OB1 on the death star.

This is similar, though also different to Vaders ability to
detect Luke in ANH whilst Palpatine did not.

"Strange
that I do not sence his presences, I woder Lord Vader if your
feelings are completely clear on this matter?"

Whilst the Padawan/Master link may not be so well defined, the
link between Luke and Vader had little time to develop but was
still strong.

queeq
Good point RC. Maybe it's closeness that will improve 'sensing'
each other. Vader also sensed Luke during the trench run in ANH.

But then again, there is the Jedi Council figuring
out that the Sith had returned. And based on what? A report of
a dark warrior well trained in the Jedi arts.

queeq
out

Ratcat
Very true, once the JC know that the Sith arre potentailly out
there they could hope to try and hunt him down.

But
it's a big Galaxy, and they're probably not gonna look right
on their own doorstep. Plus "Hard to see, the dark side
is."

queeq
Probably, even with a big nose like that. Go figure...

queeq out

Ratcat
Huh? What big nose?

Darth Daft
I think the reason Vader could sense Obi-Wan was because he still
had a little bit of good in him. Like I said before, it may be
that the Dark Side cannot sense the Light Side and vice-versa.
Vader was slightly part of the Light Side and so he could sense
Obi-Wan when he got close, but obviously not when Obi-Wan was
on Tatooine.

Ratcat
Are you trying to say "There is still good in him!"

queeq
RC, don't you think Palpy has a big nose?

And I doubt that sensing OB1 has anything to do with goodness. The Sith somehow traced the queen and the Jedi in TPM. That may have something to do with "sensing", I don't know how else they could have traced them to Tatooine if all the technology of the Neimodians couldn't do a thing like that. Not even the Imperials in the OT could trace a ship who makes the jump to lightspeed except by calculating their last known trajectories.

queeq out

Ratcat
I'm not the best person to ask, having a prize hooter myself. laughing out loud

queeq
How long is it?
(that's avery personal question... LOL)

queeq out

Ratcat
It's not length, just pure volume.

I've posted enough pics of myself here for you to see for yourself. There are some in my folrida report and my editorials at my website. If you really feel you need to know.... smile

Jedi Mercenary
maybe Ben is obi-wans clone

Dim
There's no indication that Obi-Wan will be cloned by anyone...so lets not bring that old rumor up again.

queeq
Oooh, I hope Ep2 kills all that random clone speculation. Using a clone is not the answer to every question.

queeq out

Darth Daft
We only suspect clones because of the title of the Clone Wars. Perhaps they are called that for some other reason.

Dim
Don't you think we're jumping the gun a little to say that the new title is The Clone Wars?...

queeq
I agree with Dim. There is absolutely no certainty the title will be Clone Wars. I personally doubt any of the upcoming titles will be called the Clone Wars. In the OT none of the films was called "The Rebellion" or "The Imperial Wars" or anything like that. The titel always refers somehow to the main characters: A new hope, the Empire strikes back, Return of the Jedi, the Phantom Menace (and not the Naboo Conspiracy).

And I am also sure there will be clones in one form or another, but I doubt this cloning will have anything to do with copying individual persons.

queeq out

Darth Daft
There's been a little misunderstanding. Sorry but I didn't mean it like that. I don't believe Episode 2 will be called "The Clone Wars" either. In my last post I just meant that the reason everyone thinks there will be clones in the PT is because the fact that the Clone Wars was mentioned in ANH. If that hadn't been mentioned then we would have no idea and none of the source books would have even mentioned it either.

Jedi Mercenary
It can't be called clone wars

Dim
Well...it COULD be called The Clone Wars...but like I've been saying all along...IT DOESN'T FIT THE LIST!!! *waves the Phantom Dective titles list around*

Jedi Mercenary
there can't be two "'wars" in a title

queeq
Star Wars: the Clone Wars. That's at least four wars!!!

It's NOT going to be the Clone Wars since these wars will span both Ep2 and Ep3. That says it all. I guess...

queeq out

Darth Heinous
"I reconized your foul stench when I was brought on board!" - Leia Organa Solo

queeq
Sorry, I'll take a bath...

queeq out

Ratcat
Actually she was on Leia Organa at that time - Sorry!!!

Dim
What did that quote have to do with anything?...roll eyes (sarcastic)

Darth Heinous
Nothing much. I was just clowning around. I know Leia Organa Solo wasn't married back then.

Darth Daft
Why has everyone made a big thing of this Clone War thing? That wasn't even what I meant. I didn't say "the title the CLone Wars", I said "the title OF the Clone Wars," which didn't mean I was calling Episode 2 the Clone Wars.
And like many of you have said, it will NOT be called that because that is the most lamest unoriginal title GL could ever come up with, except maybe, "Anakin Strikes Back" or something silly like that.

Ratcat
Oooooooooooooooooooooooo, get him! As one of my collugues at work loves to say.

Seriously though, there just beating you down DD before they attach enmasse

Darth Daft
This is a battle I do not think I can win. But anyway. where were we?

Ratcat
I have totally lost the plot on this one, and about 20 others around here to...

Darth Daft
Has it been wrapped up then or do you think people will still want to comment on Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan sensing Palpatine as the title suggests?

Ratcat
Time to do that Dim thang.....

queeq
Yeah, baby, bring it on!

Too bad really, I was enjoying this thread.

queeq out

Ratcat
I would think, judging on what we know from the Original Trilogy, that Palpatines power is much greater that Obi Wan or Qui Gonn, therefore he found it easier to disguise his true seft and his intentions to the Jedi Knights.

Was Yoda on Naboo for the arrival of Palpatine? If so why did he not sence it?

queeq
He was even in the same room with Palpy when Qui-Gon was incinerated. I think we will find out in either Ep2 or 3. I hope...

queeq

Dim
Yoda actually came to Naboo on the same transport as Palpatine...

(And I don't see a point to closing this topic...)

queeq
You are far too lenient. But thanks anyway. I like to see fun threads to continue for ever, but hey, Mods have to have something to do as well.

queeq out

Ratcat
Therefore I sould suggest that Palpatine is powerful enough to hide from even the great Yoda. However, Yoda was not actively searching for evil in Palpatine which would aid him in his efforts to hide his true self.

Dim, it was just ba thought as this thing, like many otehrs, had wandered so far off topic it was getting scary.

queeq
That sounds very clever. However, OB1 senses something elusive while being lightyears away. Strange that Yoda and Mace together couldn't sense a disturbance in the Force, while being alerted to the return of the Sith. Strange, strange, strange.

queeq out

Dim
YEah...I wonder if that's because they're older and set in their ways....maybe not as with the force as they'd like to believe..

Ratcat
But OB1 was entering into a new and pottentially volatile situation and was actively looking for any signs of trouble whilst Yoda/Mace/etc were heading for a celerbration where they did not expect to find any real trouble.

queeq
Hmmmm, I don't really buy that. If the Sith return after a thousand years, you better be alert. Especially if the Sith are being connected to the entire Naboo crisis. They were even discussing it while being ON Naboo. Weird, weird, weird.

queeq out

Ratcat
True, but at rest, at peace they were with themselves... Blah, blah, blah.

Though within my mind the risings of doubt are appearing.

queeq
That sounds interesting. Tell me, what are you doubtful about?

queeq out

Ratcat
Well you have a point. They are faced with possibly the biggest threat during their lifetimes and they do not sence it when it's standing just yards from them.

Have the Jedi become complacent, is this the drop in defences that the Sith need to make their move?

queeq
I think so. There must be some kind of solution to this, which may tie in with the fact that the Jedi never knew about the return of the Sith in the first place. But honestly, I don't know. So far it's just strange but it may be the cause of the Jedi purge eventually.

queeq out

Darth Daft
You're ideas could be right. Perhaps the Jedi have become so relaxed and used to life that they don't sense anything on the Dark Side. Yoda said the Dark Side is hard to see, so perhaps a Jedi needs to be a actually looking for something if they are to find it. In other words, since the Sith were wiped out so long ago, the Jedi may never use caution and try to focus their minds to sense anything relating to the Sith, so even when a Sith is nearby they can't sense him/her unless they really try to.

queeq
Lack of vigilance, eh? Maybe. It would make sense, considering the little bit we know now. Who knows what the Great Flanelled One has in store for us. But I do hope he shows us why the Sith could emerge so easily.

queeq out

Darth Daft
Do we have any knowledge of who Darth Sidious' master was? How did he start the Sith again? Was he once a normal Jedi Knight or had he been brought up as a Dark Side member all his life?
Have any of these been answered yet?

queeq
No, not as far as we know. Personally, I hope GL does not go into that in the movies. That kind of explaining how everything works is very boring and will affect the movie in a bad way. IMHO OC.

queeq out

Darth Daft
I agree. But still, I wonder if the Sith have just been hiding all that time before TPM or if Sidious just revives the religon without a master of his own or a master before that and so on.

Ratcat
I think the Master/Apprentice thing has been ongoing since it was invoked. The Sith were biding their time, awaiting the right time to make their move.#

Palpatine just happened to be the man to do the job.

queeq
I don't know. I kinda like Daft's point of view. Who knows? Maybe Palpy found the Sith Temple or some Sith holy books and applied the knowledge he found thus reviving the ancient cult. Maybe he is a rejected Jedi. Lots of possibilities I think.

queeq out

Ratcat
But on the Official Site they said that the Sith had been active, but "underground" for a millenia.

queeq
Really? Hmmmm, well it would tie in with Maul's statement: "At least we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we'll have revenge." Either he is very imparient or the Sith have been working towards this moment for a long time.

queeq out

Jedi Mercenary
you kidding?? the Jedi took out the sense 1000 years before TPM they want revenge for they're extinct bretherin

Darth Daft
Perhaps this will show Palpatine's weakness in comparison to other Sith. Throughout all those years the master Sith above him were prepared to raise more apprentices and let newer generations take over the Galaxy after they had died. But as soon as Palpy/Sidous becomes the master Sith he is more impatient and just decides to attempt to take over the Galaxy. Just like Luke said, his over-confidence may be his weakness.

Ratcat
The Sith were never destroyed, they just went into hiding.

After bitter infighting amongst the Sith they basically wiped most of there number about 1000 years before TPM. However Darth Bane then invoked the Master/Apprentice rule and then order went into hiding to plan their eventual revenge on the Jedi.

The Jedi considered the Sith extinct for a millenia, until the revelation of Darth Maul and the realsiation that the Sith had returned.

queeq
The order? We are talking about one Sith or two at most. Quite easy to go into hiding, I'd say. The Sith are no longer what they once were. But obviously they did not lose their power. It just took some time to find an appropriate time. Now that the Republic is crumbling and maybe even the Jedi Council with it, it seems like a good time. If taking over the universe was not the Sith plan, what was? Just sit in the dark and be evil?

queeq out

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