Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

how the hell does sidios aka palpatine aka the emperor hide his powers from the jedi?! no one senses it in episode I, and they obviously dont sense it in 10 YEARS b/w Episode I and episode II. luke was barely trained and he could sense the dark side. and lucas wants us to beleive that a sith master can hide from the freaking jedi council and be in the same room?!?!! what is the explaination of this? will it be explained in episode II?

"Hard to see the darkside is"-Yoda in TPM

I got the feeing that luke could sence Vader because he was his son......the cave thing in ESB was kind of a test......

The sith lords(especially sidious) consider masking their identity almost an art form.......

you are correct JO

one thing i considered is that in TPM, palpatine doesnt use the force at all. they could sense maul because he was USING the dark side, but if palpatine doesnt actively use it, theres nothing for the council to sense.

I don't think they ever sensed Maul in a Dark Side sense.

I think Sidious does stuff all the time. Just his activities are ALWAYS hard to detect. Still, it;s quite a feat no matter which way you look at it.

they said it was impossible when QGJ said that his attacker was a Sith

Well, only Mundi actively said it was impossible. Considering that by the end of the day Windu was saying' This is the clue we need to unravel the mystery of the Sith' I would imagine that they were at least willing to consider the possibility.

QGJ said that "his guess was" that his attacker was a Sith. Just poiting that out. So that may have been mere deduction (dark warrior well trained in the Jedi arts - who could that be??? D'oh, maybe a Sith?)

Luke didn't sense Palpy either, despite the fact that he was flying right past him or being on the moon below him. THe dark side is hard to see indeed.

Palpatine is the man. Kill 'em all, Palpy!!!

well, Mundi also said "But the Sith has been destroyed for over a millenia"
so they were all unsure,
and QGJ said "My guess is..." because Maul didn't said:
"Hey, there, my name is Maul and I'm a Sith"

What I said.

show-off!

Just plain fact.

sure thing

Maul could have been holding the force close to him. That way noone could tell he was a force user.

what do you mean?

yeah! what the bold guy said!

I read somewhere....sorry prob non-canonical EU or something.....that a jedi could hold the force in around themselves so that no other force-sensitive being could sense their presence. Kind of like withdrawling into one's self.

Hmm.

In any case, I still say there is absolutely no evidence at all that you can sense someone because they use the Force. All we have seen so far is people sensing minds that they have sensed before. NEVER have we seen anyone use the Force to sense someone else using the Force, let alone sense him just because he is strong in the Force.

huh?

We have never seen anyone use the Force to sense someone in either of these two situations:

1. Because the person being sensed was using the Force.

2. Because the person being sensed was strong in the Force.

you know, when i think about it, ush is right. the only times where either of those two things ush mentioned happened, was in EU. theres nothing in cannon that states jedi can sense eachother because of the other persons force ability. they only sense others whose presence they are personally familiar with.

Indeed, I very much agree. I believe Jedi recognise minds they have sensed before the same way they would recognise a face.

Those who disagree with me use Vader's line 'The Force is Strong with this one' in ANH to say that Vader was sensing Luke's force strength. I MASSIVELY disagree with that interpretation; I believe that Vader was simply commenting on the luck/skill of his target, as the term 'May the Force be with you' and so on is often used to signify luck. I believe that if Vader really had thought he had found someone powerful with the Force he would have had a far more surprised reaction.

And his tone of voice was very much along the lines of expressing surprise at this target's skill, rather than the astonishmnet Vader would have shown if it was a Force adept he thought he was chasing.

So, I maintain we have no evidence that you can sense someone using the Force. Which makes Palpatine's cover far easier to believe.

And I still think Vader's way too serious about the Force to use it only symbollically, as a term for luck. It's clear that the rebels use it as such without being Force users themselves. In the talk with the military commanders Vader SUDDENLY brings up the Force in a military and political debate. It feels kind of awkward how he brings that up. Much like saying that it is not the will of God in Parliament while talking about abortion or euthanasia. It will feel awkward, you only do that when you really believe it. But generally people will consider such a person a "religious freak", and it's clear from his reponse that this commander (forgot his name) considered Vader as a "religious freak" as well. So for me, Vader's way too serious about that.

And what about "The Force is with him"when he refers to OB1 being on the DS? Is that just experience or that he sensed OB1 was still strong in the Force.
Palpy says the same about Luke in ESB: "The Force is strong with him." Palpy sensed Luke ("There is a great disturbance in the Force. We have a new enemy: Luke Skywalker." even though he never met him, no familiar mind therefore...

So your theory's not entirely waterproof, Ush, IMHO OC.

btw: the name you are searching queeq, is Motti

I thought it was Tagge

I think Tagge is the otherone who was discussing things with Motti, sorry but I have CD-ROM problems again, so I can't check it right now

Well, I never understood, queeq, why you think Vader's seriousness would prevent him saying that line. That argument makes no sense at all, he is in no way trivialising things. I repeat, as the pupil of someone who does not beleive in luck, what else WOULD Vader say of someone he thought was having a good day? 'The Force is strong with him', of course.

Meanwhile, when he said 'the Force is with him' about Obi-Wan, this was a remark on his competence, and on how Tarkin's cronies certainly wouldn't be able to deal with him.

When talking about Luke, they are simply talking about how powerful he actually is with the Force. They don't ALWAYS have to mean it figuratively! Stop being so literal, queeq, it's all on context. ALways seemed pretty clear to me.

So your opinoin is very humble indeed, queeq, because you have- again- said nothing that fundamentally negates any of my points.

You could try a little humbleness for size, Ush. After all, we don;t know anything for CERTAIN. You are so CERTAIN Vader only uses that line figuratively speaking (Stop taking everything so figuratively, Ush! ). You did not bring any new points in, just the same opinion as before with the same arguments. There are other people here who have not heard this debate. You put your views forward and so do I. No need to patronise.

I just expect you to back a comment like 'it's not entirely waterproof' with something more substantial.

All I was trying to say is that there are other clues to it. It seems there is more to just sensing minds. And since you believe that's the ONLY way it can happen, I tend to disagree. Your analysis is OK, it seems to make sense, but there are other things in SW that show there may be a bit more to it. Hence, not waterproof. Water resistant, maybe.

Well, I wasn't stating a certainty. I was saying that it was all we had seen so far. And that if it were so it would explain the Palpatine problem.

If.. then.... if... then....

I know a few like those.

i must say again that i wholeheartedly agree with ush on the matter. it is the "best-fit"explaination. queeq has a valid point about vaders comments, however, i dont think vader had to sense that luke had a strong force ability to realize he was strong in the force. did you SEE the way he was weaving around in the trench! vader had two options: either the pilot was strong in the force or he was drunk!

I'm not going to start with that, but I'm sure Ush will give the explanation why Vader said that ...
or was that already said?

Luke drunk??? Hmmm, good thing he didn't get arrested.

In police voice:

This is the intergalactic police, eject your R2 unit and stop your X-wing, we have surrounded you!

Yeah, just said it above, yerss.

shoot!

*takes phone*
*phones brain-company*
- I'm sorry sir, al our rental brains are momentarely away, they are all with some guy named queeq, he needed them!
*opens head*
*puts new batteries in it*

Much better!

Glad to have you back to normal, Yerssot.

I know this is a tangent but o-well...deal with it....what would Luke get drunk on???

Bacta?

blue milk?

you noticed that aunt beru poors in some and when Luke is seated he takes some more, then he drinks and looks at the blue milk again!

Maybe it was off.

what off???

Gone bad. (I hate explaining jokes)

and I hate your so called jokes

That's because you don't get them.

that's a joke right?
I get it!
I always get jokes!

Nope, you just proved my point.... again.

what? what proof?

hey! that's my smilie!

You don't own anything around here. It all belongs to Raz.

All hail the Admin!

Finally he gets it.

woohoo!

And so on. Time for second grade for yerssot..... of Kindergarten.

Are you two done bickering yet?

nope
at least I went to school!

Yes, school is a good thing.....you should stick with it

NO!!!

Yerss seems to prefer dumbness...

dumbness? what's that?

Case in point

point?

Yerssot, you keep talking and you'll make me more right every second*evil grin*

She's learning fast.

well, at least one of you two is capable of learning

ohhh...that hurt

No, it didn't. Sticks and stones...