Venom Ghostrider VS Hulk Juggernaut

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SuperNova
Once Again I decided to make a topic about Venom and Ghostrider, because they seem to be the most... Evil heores. Venom kills when he has too, Ghostrider kills when he has too, and they both look super evil. so, anyways, Heres another with them. Venom has already taken out Juggy, so I think it wouldnt take long for him to do it again, Especially if Ghostrider helped, Once they were done with Juggy, they would prolly go for the hulk, I think Ghost would wrap his chain around the hulk and keep him occupied, after all, with his motorcycle the hulk can not mess with him. Hed be going around in circles and crap, and hulky would be going after him, then Venom would send out some symbiote and make it wrap around hulks head, and he would supphocate and crap... And hed faint. Alright, now what do you think??? Happy Dance

Linkalicious
Now i'm not here to downplay Venom's abilities or anything, because he's my fav comic character. But i don't really see how those 2 could take out Juggy and the Hulk. Actually Juggy and the Hulk could probably combine to do a killer tag team move. I'll go with Juggernaut and the Hulk on this because neither Venom or Ghostrider are known for their intelligence, so i don't know what advantages they might have...

venomfan
well a tag team situation isnt good for venom and ghostrider, venom may have beat juggy and ghostrider vs hulk is question able but at the same time is too much, i hate to say it but its kinda immpossible to beat both no matter who ya are.

SuperNova
Well Venom would definatly take down Juggernaut, And since Ghostrider has a motorcycle, the hulk would have some running competition, and ghostrider would zoom around real fast while hulk would try to hit. Juggy would be beaten by Venom, And then theyd both go on Hulk, And with the symbiote's ability to put itself on another, it wraps around his head... and they both run... Hulk is done for.

SuperNova
Oh, and the advantages they have Linkalicious, is that there not both huge slow brutes, Hulk isnt that slow, but Juggernaut can be many times slow, And ghostrider has a really fast motorcycle FROM HELL, so thats a big advantage, Plus Venom can minipulate his Costume so that it can be like all these helper slime dudes with huge teeth to tear into the Hulk, You saw what those huge three dogs did to him in the movie! Im sorry, but I think Ghostrider is too fast and skilled, and I think Venom can do to much with his costume, and he can like Websling and stuff, so I really think theyd be at a big vantage, plus, theyre smaller!

Asian Hulk
Will you Shut up SuperNova!!!!if you want to insulting me!!!just shut your ---------- up!!!!!!and don't call me stupid!!!!you understand?and don't insult my comment!!!! OK!!!!

H A P P Y
C H I N E S E
N E W
Y E A R

K O N G
H U A Y
F E T
C H U A Y

venomfan
one on one with both id say venom all the way, but nobody is takin both at once. if say venom is grabbed buy hulk and juggy,hes dead. like i said venom one on one with either id say him all the way. but this is impossible

Metroplex
As much as i like Ghost rider and Venom, They wont stand a chance against Juggy and Hulk. Number one reason: Jugernaut is invincible. Nothing can hurt him not even adamantium. The only way that anyone can actually stop jugernaut is by removing his helmet and telepathically shut his mind down. Secondly, Hulk gets stronger everytime he gets mad. When the X-men, Fantastic four, and the avengers fought Onslaught(They got their asses kicked), it was the Hulk who beated him in single combat. When he got so mad that he blew the shit out of onslaught's armor.

venomfan
venom beat juggy down in the madness, just wanted to remind everybody how badass the Venom dude is....but still both at once there screwed

SuperNova
Will you Shut up SuperNova!!!!if you want to insulting me!!!just shut your ---------- up!!!!!!and don't call me stupid!!!!you understand?and don't insult my comment!!!! OK!!!!
ASIAN HULK, The correct way to have typed that would be-
"Supernova! Why the heck would you insult me like that? Just shut your mouth up! And dont call me stupid! You understand? And never insult my comments! OK?!?!" That would be the correct way. Anyways Asian hulk, I just think that your threads are dumb, I mean, Spider-girl sucks.

Eidolon
Venom and Ghost would have no problem beating Juggy right off. I don't know that much about Ghost, but isn't he really really hard to hurt? How do you kill him? From what I know about Ghost physical combat like what Juggy uses wouldn't be able to destroy Ghost rider, and Venom's Symbiote pertty much make him immune to physical attacks.

As far as I'm concerened Venom could use his Symbiote to get into Juggy's armnor and take away Juggy's invincible gem stone thing. Or Ghost could use his stare to turn Juggy in to a crying remorsing baby.

The Hulk I think would be another matter all togather, how would Venom or Ghost beat him I don't know.

venomfan
well venom has faced hulk befor it was a one shot and i didnt read it, i think both have equal chance of winning that fight, but juggy may be his teams downfall

Never
Pass me what you all are smoking, please?

Hulk and Juggernaut would completely and utterly destroy Venom and Ghostrider.

Ghostrider is "immune" to "most forms of conventional injury." Ha!

Venom vs. Juggernaut? Juggernaut easily. Not sure why this blind loyalty runs so rampant, but are you guys kidding me? Have you all forgotten that Juggernaut can also project a forcefield that Venom could never hope to penetrate? You do know that Juggernaut does not have to breathe, eat, drink? Not to mention that he is 10 times stronger than Venom could ever hope to be - and he is, for all intents and purposes, invulnerable?

Venom could never ever EVER hope to beat The Hulk either.

Hulk and Juggernaut stomp mudholes in this team with ease.

venomfan
hey read the comic were venom fought juggy and BEAT HIM!, i said before venom and ghost rider vs both i say team hulk wins, but having ridiculous strenght does not garantee a win.

LeAtHerRFace
Venom and Ghost Ryda wud kick their @$$e$

venomfan
here is the series where venom fights juggernuat

Never
I know you love Venom (as indicated by your name); however, I guarantee you that 99% of comic book writers will tell you that Venom could never EVER kill Juggernaut (assuming both are at optimal levels). You forgot about his forcefield? I bet that particular writer did also roll eyes (sarcastic)

Dude...entire teams come out to defeat Juggernaut (X-Men, Avengers) and Hulk - one member alone could defeat both Venom and Ghost Rider. You do realize that Juggernaut could literally swat Venom into the upper atmosphere?

venomfan
writers aside, i know venom could not really beat juggy like you said it takes a team to beat him, and hulk can stand up to juggernaut alone. but i will say he could fight it out with hulk, hulk dosent have any filed and venom is fast enuf to take it too hulk. and i did post earlier that i know venom and ghost rider would lose. but i still say he has as much a chance as anyone to beat hulk.

venomfan
but i think a lot of people down play his skill, he may not be much stronger than spidey, but he has a few extra abilities that come in very handy, and strengh is not every thing, in the marvel dc crossover venom took it to superman and almost killed him. i know venoms limits and these two are definetly too much for the knights of vengence(venom and ghost rider)

Linkalicious
i have those comics! *ahhh memories*

venomfan
wait start over, venom can beat juggernaut,in the first issue venom went at him head on and basically got the crap beat out of him.in the second issue his suit combined with the mercury element(i have no idea what this did) and then he started hitting juggernaut with stuff like logs and cars, and eventually knocked him somewere...yes juggernaut could swat venom into the atmosphere, but what are his chance's of getting past the spider sense? slim to none.yes juggernaut is insanley durable but the juggernauts forced field only works when hes running. other wise he can be hit.

Hulkster
ok did marvel publish those comics? yep it did so apparently venom can take juggernuat...

Never
Venom is not nearly as quick, as agile, or as fast as Spiderman, and his "spider sense" is not nearly as effective as Spiderman's. Venom takes much longer to react to his "spider sense" considering his reflexes are NOT on par with Spiderman's. That being said, again, Venom cannot necessarily defeat Juggernaut because a comic book published it - Lobo was defeated by Wolverine in **one** comic book also, but is that cannon? No, it is not. Lobo would mop the floor with Wolvie.

Let's get real, here - it was a mini-series FOR Venom. In any other published comic book, Juggernaut would STOMP Venom. Venom, at best, could POSSIBLY incapacitate Juggernaut - he could never defeat him.

Juggernaut's forcefield does not work when he is only running - recall that he is virtually unstoppable when moving forward? Why would he need a forcefield to work only when he is running? Redundant, right?

And Venom has the best shot at defeating Hulk? LMAO, which one? Grey Hulk? Never. The Professor? Never. Mindless Hulk? Never. Recall it took the ENTIRE Avengers (the line-up at the time was Thor, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Human Torch, Starfox, Dr. Strange - and Spiderman, Iron Fist, and Powerman all chipped in to help. Hulk WALKED through all of them) to dispel Hulk (Dr. Strange)? How many Avengers do you think it would take to neutralize Venom? Let's see, who could do it by themselves? Thor, Iron Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Goliath, Wonder Man, Moondragon, Thing, Submariner, Hercules - get the picture? Black Panther would probably gut Venom.

Venom, defeat Hulk? Er...no. You need names such as Thor (on his BEST day he MIGHT stalemate Hulk), Superman, Juggernaut.

Linkalicious
i like this guy. If i had to say anything...maybe, and i mean MAYBE Venom is faster than Spidey, but i dont' think he's quicker or more agile.

venomfan
like i said venom has a better shot at betting hulk, over ghostrider. Venoms spider sense is on par with spideys and he can react just as quick, the only thing is he isnt as gracefull if thats what you would like to call it. no its not redundant he is a unstopable force, hence the field only works when hes running. and remember super heros have diminished quit a bit. hulk fought venom in a hulk comic and the fight was not one sided. venom could trash iron man he is far to slow, this was juggernauts problem. i know venom is a average marvel hero, but that dosent mean anybody can trash him

Hulkster
What about Sephiroth?...... oh wait you are a Venomfan!!!

venomfan
any how

Hulkster
Good Save

venomfan
no doubt

venomfan
any how back to the subject, hulk and juggernuat are a unbeatable team,(dont mention god like characters they dont count) i know this every one should but, there is a differnece between saying who can beat who blabla, or useing forums as a chance to blast characters you dont like. Never i dont know whether or not you hate hate venom, but i know you know more about marvel than me, but i will stick up for venom againand again when i have reason. yes it can take entire teams to beat hulk and juggernaut but what does this matter if you question the writers? like you said lobo lost to wolverine and that was impossible, just like venom beating juggernuat. but it happend. maybe you dont like the outcome but it happend. i herd punisher whopped venom and that blew my mind, punisher is friggin rad but id say venom could waste him. see a outcome i could argue with over and over but it happend.

Never

venomfan
"Also the Marvel Directory is in no way connect to Marvel Entertainment"
but these comics are.
anyhow thats quite the site, but you said non marvel affiliated didnt matter. so agian i say at least check out www.spiderfan.com there is every apperance of every spider hero or villian ever. and reviews for almost all of them. better bios too. same info just more pertanent info.
like extra familie members and such

venomfan
yep but let me guess that never happend and he never beat juggernuat either.... im not doing this cuase my name is venom fan im doing this becuase it already happend

venomfan
here is the thing on spider sense, it said brock does have time to react to most situations but it is debatable on wheter or not he could doge a bullet, he cant. but he dosent need to venom sustians small and meduim round gun fire in spider man-venom returns

Never
No, they are not affiliated with Marvel Comics but er um did you notice this part?

"The database will be designed just like the comic book series "The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe." I have the support of the Marvel Fan Site program, this allows me to bring you graphics >>>>and Marvel material<<<< that they provide and support."

The webmaster uses *Marvel* bios while constructing his database. He did not edit or embellish them in any way. Come on venomfan, I do my homework wink

Won't debate you on this subject anymore sad

venomfan
wow same as spider fan but you called it a crappy fan site(no not the venomsite this is a legit site) and i didnt say that your site blew. you asumed i was taking a shot at its credibilty, im glad you posted that it had a lot of info. again check out www.spiderfan.com its worth a visit

Eidolon
Venom never really got his butt kicked by Punisher I have the comic series of that. What happened was Venom was on a mission to extract a undercover reporter in a gang, which at the time Punisher was in the process of eliminating. When they ran into eachother Venom asked for Punishers cooperation to help extract the reporter, which the punisher refused saying anyone in a gang deserves to die regardless. Venom beat up the Punisher then left him alive to get on with his mission, then Punisher came back and ambushed Venom with a sonic or heat gun, which Venom got out of. In the end they just took off without finishing their fight.

As for the Venom and Ghost vs Juggy and Hulk, Juggy is a wuss. I don't mean he isn't strong or hard to hurt but in the big sceme of things he's to stupid and not quite as powerful as is often clamied. Otherwise how is it he's been beaten up or defeated in so many battles? In know Spidy ended up trapping him in a huge cement foundation for quite some time, and Venom ran the Juggernaught off after a fist fight. I don't know that much about the Juggernaught but as far as I know his force feild isn't immune or a perfect defense. I remember hearing that there are limitations as to when he can or can't use it or when he uses it lowers some of his other abilities or something to that effect.

As for Venom he's able to control his Symbiote on the molecular level so much that he is able to send it through a computer screen change some how and have it come out another computer screen someplace else. I've seen it happen in a Venom comic in which he is fighting Carnage and in the Spiderman Venom comic in which the Symbiotes invade earth. So what I'm saying is it may be possible for the symbiote to enter through Juggy's force feild.

As for Ghost rider if he can't be hurt by punches and stuff what would Juggy do to kill him? Juggy to stupid to figure out a way so Ghost could do his "Stare" thing to incapacitate Juggy in a fight.

The real problem for Ghost and Venom would be Hulk.

venomfan
thank you for the punisher info. but your right about juggy i knew it was hulk that was the prob

Eidolon
Yeah Juggy is way to overated. I know when he first appeared in the Marvel Universe he was really powerful (kinda like Superman when Supes fist came out he was basically undefeatable), but recent comics show that Juggy isn't much of a problem.

To beat Hulk I would think Venom would have to get right up close and use his Symbiote to tie Hulk up a bit (I know he wouldn't be able to keep Hulk from moving or anything, but he could slow Hulk down. While Venom does that Ghost could try his demon Stare on Hulk too since Hulk has done some bad things before.

Also I wonder if Venom could Chameleon camoflauge himself to get right up on Hulk and use his Symbiote to take control of hulk by partially going on him and messing with Hulk's mind. I know Hulk isn't stupid anymore, but I remeber other comics in which the Symbiote was used to at least take physical control of an opponent, I know Carnage once used his Symbiote to take control of Silver Surfer once.

If Venom could take partiall control of Hulk he may get Hulk to turn to Bruce Banner and then he and Ghost could beat him that way. I don't know if Venom would just get part of his Symbiote into Hulks Skull to his brain and just release Hormones to calm Huld down or what.

It'd really be a cool fight to see though.

Eidolon
Hey Venomfan I've heard they're restarting the Venom mini-series, is that true?

venomfan
yep, its pretty good first series was shiver, now there on run and its pretty badass. its about what happend after finale, the symbiote is running to or from somthing and eddie brock is missing. wolverine gets trown into the mix too. heres the shiver series

venomfan
here is a page, you get the idea

Eidolon
Thanks, it looks sweet. I'm really sorry to say I haven't seen much of Venom since his Comic in which he goes on trial. After that comic I couldn't find any more so I stopped collecting comics for awhile till Ult X-men came out and Ult Spidy (since I'd figure Venom would resuface if they're doing Ult Spidy, which he did, but I'm not sure I'm really happy with that Venom).

venomfan
yeah the same thing happend with me, now i have to find a new comic shop, but you can read reviews for most series at the spiderfan site.
and i was right venom s strengh has been enhanced i contact'ed the site and here is the reply

From : Henrique Ferreira <[email protected]>
Sent : Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:29 PM
To : <[email protected]>
Subject : RE: SpiderFan.Org - venom bio

You're right, Venom has been shown once to rival Iron Man in strength.
That's probably his best achievement.

An update on the strength value is now on our (very long) "To do" list.
We'll get there eventually.

Thanks for your input,

Never
If you admittedly know little to nothing about Juggernaut, why are you even commenting? His forcefield would protect him from *anything* Venom could throw at him.



Incorrect.



Are "punches and stuff" all that Cain Marko has at his disposal? Juggernaut, "overrated?" LoL, might try finding story arcs that full explore his powers and not some garbage Venom Mini-Series roll eyes (sarcastic)



Hulk would absolutely shred Venom's symbiote. Ghostrider's "stare" traumatizes human souls. Mindless Hulk operates purely on animal instinct. Ghost Rider gets tossed into a volcano. Hulk grabs Venom, rips him limb from limb. End of story.



He cannot. "Mindless Hulk." No mind.



Release hormones to calm Hulk down? LoL, this is Venom, not Starfox. Mindless Hulk HAS no Bruce Banner to turn into. Venom gets curbstomped, and BADLY.

Again, Venom has zero zero zero place in the same sentence with Hulk and Juggernaut. Venom would get CRUSHED by Batman with prep time, same with Black Panther with prep time. Venom is NO world-class fighter.



Um, wrong. Iron Man powers up to 85-95 tons. Venom is nowhere near. He must have meant an OLD Iron Man - and I do mean OLD.

venomfan
you do realize that your bassing your OPINOIN all on what you think would happen. dont you understand that everything that you say about juggernuat beating up venom is only your view. yes Iam a fan of venom. but HE beat juggy like it or not. you are not going to say that in a comic were juggernuat lose'es is a thrashy series now are you? he lose'es all the time becuase he is a idoit. im not going to reciet the whole 3 part series becuase its not worth my time. did you see the infinty war? hulk was taken by the symbiote and LIKED IT! hulk loved the extra power!
dont say profesor hulk wouldnt let this happen, becuase the carnage symbiote took silver surffer. when the symbiote cant find a way to win it takes the enemy as a host. this has happend plenty of times.

venomfan
maybe this will shut you up about the great juggernuat. the first issue juggernuat kicked venoms ass. Venom only hit him three times then juggy slammed him threw the pavement, venom was about to get up but couldnt. then he bonded to the mercury element(i dont know what that did) issue two not much happend. issue three they fight again, venom hops aroun a finaly hits juggernuat with a log and pop off comes the helmet. end story like it or not he lost

Never
"Shut me up?" How mature is that big grin

Point is you are an opinionated fanboy who thinks that Venom is the greatest thing since the second chopstick. Venom sucks as a fighter and Batman/Captain America would give him FITS.

Venom uses a LOG and knocks of Juggernaut's helmet? Brilliant writing! Bravo! The helmet prevents him from being susceptible to a PSIONIC attack, the helmet is NOT his source of POWER. The GEM powers Juggernaut.

Why are you telling me he knocked his helmet off confused

Ask a CREDIBLE writer (Busiek, Morrison, Ennis, Ellis, J. Michael, Byrne, Claremont, Lobdell, Moore, et al) who would win between Juggernaut and Venom.

All would reply "Juggernaut." Venom is not in his league, and that is FACT, not opinion.

LMAO @ Carnage "taking over Silver Surfer." More idiotic writing akin to Wolverine slashing open Silver Surfer with his claws roll eyes (sarcastic) Because it was written, that makes it ***realistic?*** NO! Juggernaut losing to Venom is NOT realistic, dude. Juggernaut fights THOR!! Thor would DESTROY Venom!

Thor, Juggernaut, Hulk, VENOM. Which name does not belong? embarrasment

venomfan
wow, you got to be kidding me. so what are you gonna write comics now? its pretty lame becuase i have shown you venom beat juggernuat, and your argument is that the writers dont know what there doing. last i checked you werent in charge of marvel.

Never
Will say it again - do you know any writers? Browse any writer messageboards? Why don't you go to your local comic shop and ask one of the OWNERS if Venom could dream of beating Juggernaut - and then when they tell you "HELL NO" (which they WILL) point out that "well dudes, Venom beat Juggernaut in his own mini-series" then come back and tell us what they tell you.

venomfan
look i also said this before venom did not (beat up) Juggernuat, and instead of argueing the same thing over and over again i suggest you rethink your point. i dont think venom could beat juggernuat up in a strait fight but thats not what the series was about.

Eidolon
If Juggy's force sheild is so strong why could Onslaught go right through it and rip out the Gem from Juggernaught? Why has Juggy been beat up or defeated so many times if he's "invincible"? Why was his helment removed when fighting the X-man which allowed for telepathic attacks on him if his sheild is so invincible? I'll tell you, cause he's stupid and despite what he says he's not unstopable.

All of which has been pertty much clearly pointed at in most comics he's in. I don't know on what level his sheild works (how powerful it is or how it's made) but neither do you, all you say is it's unbreakable but with no real proof. As for Comic game shops and their employees, they don't have any more say as to what would happen hypothetically than any other person not in Marvel.

Both Venom and Ghost are fast enough and smart enought to stay out of Juggy's why till they can come up with a plan to defeat Juggy, which usually is all that is needed to end up defeating Juggy time to think and execute a plan.

Like I said before I don't know how Juggys sheild opperates, it's limitations ect..., but Venom can and has controlled his Symbiote on the molecualar level to travel through data streams. (he's put his computer through a computer screen, used the network connection to go to another computer screen in a different building and come out (his Symbiote not all of him)) all I'm asking is it may be possible to go through Juggy's sheild the same way, after all light can get through what else can?

As for Hulk I was thinking of the Smart Hulk as Venom and Ghost's opponent. You know the Hulk with a mind, the one who fought Onslaught. But if you want to make it Dumb hulk go right a head cause Dumb Hulk is easier to defeat by lesser strength opponets as been proven in the past. Given Venom's speed and camo abilities he and Ghost could have plenty of time to figure out how to defeat Hulk.

Eidolon
The fact is the only Marvel info you can really go off of for Venom and Juggy is their fights in the Venom mini-series in which Venom of courst won.

Also Venomfan when Carnage takes over Silver Surfer was that a Silver Surfer comic or Spidy? I think it was Spidy right.

venomfan
yeah

venomfan
and this one

Eidolon
Sweet I'll have to get those some time

Never
Just who do you think ONSLAUGHT is? The combined might of the earth's super heroes could not put a dent in Onslaught's armor. Onslaught is clearly no fluff boy.



Same reason GALACTUS has been snuffed several times when clearly he is supposed to be one of the fundamental forces of the Marvel Universe. Depends on the writer and story arc. Juggernaut has been cast as INCREDIBLY powerful, and he has also been cast as a sniveling bully. Read more.



I know that it is MORE than powerful enough to thwart anything Venom could toss at him. Duh, it depends on the writer. A writer could have Juggernaut suffer from a HEADACHE, thus breaking his concentration and his forcefield THEN Venom could get inside. Again, all things being REGULAR, Juggernaut would utterly DESTROY Venom.



I guarantee you that MOST comic shop owners know a hell of a lot more about characters than YOU do. I am willing to bet my house that I know a hell of a lot more than you do as well. Have been reading/collecting comics for some 22 years, and have thousands. And thousands. And THOUSANDS of comic books.



Venom is STUPID. Ex-felon. DUMB. He is no tactician. If this were BATMAN or BLACK Panther, then they could come up with the means to defeat Juggernaut. Venom? Not on your life. And um, what would Hulk be doing while Venom and Ghostrider sit and draw diagrams in the sand?



And light is the ONLY thing that does. Juggernaut does not need to breathe. Venom cannot penetrate it. Simple.



Again, you do not read your comic books. "Venom's speed?" LMAO, he is Barry Allen? Wally West? Pietro? Give me a break. GREY HULK could stomp a hole in Venom. "Smart Hulk?" Sir, that would be The Professor with the genius level intellect AND Class 100 strength. He'd scatter Venom AND his symbiote all over Lake Michigan with a particle cannon. Better choose the weakest - GREY Hulk, who would STILL own Venom. And EASILY.

"Dumb Hulk?" Do you read comics? Go reread Hulk #299 and Hulk #300 and show me how the entire AVENGERS could not defeat this "Dumb Hulk" and how on earth Venom would stand a chance. Do you know how they "defeated" Hulk? Dr. Strange had to teleport him to another DIMENSION because Thor, Starfox, Vision, Scarlett Witch, The Human Torch, and Captain Marvel could not do DIDDLY SQUAT with "Dumb Hulk." Hulk could literally backhand Venom AND Ghostrider into the upper atmosphere. "Dumb Hulk" lifted 150 BILLION TONS in Secret Wars #4. "Dumb Hulk" clapped his hands together and snuffed Johhny's flame, knocking him unconscious. "Dumb Hulk" knocked Vision on the top of his head (and Vision would DESTROY Venom) like a nail into wood. Get it into your head, Venom could nevereverevereverever defeat Hulk.

Why you and Fan swear that Venom is "badass" is beyond me. A whole host of characters would STOMP him. The entire Uncanny X-Men have been called upon to deal with Juggernaut - CYCLOPS, GAMBIT, BISHOP, ROGUE, COLLOSUS, and STORM could take out Venom ALONE.

venomfan
dude your arguments are lame, Eidilon agrees with me becuase it happend, do i really care what a couple of comic book shop owners think? NO! i care about what MARVEL COMICS RELEASSED! you have no basis for a argument, why? becuase juggernuat never beat venom, in fact nowadays he is a friggin clown who loses all the time. and please Cyclops and bishop are goons, Storm and wolverine are the only X-men who gave venom any trouble. you even said gambit proves how little you know. VENOM BONDED TO GAMBIT LOL your are clueless

venomfan
venoms symbiot can break down to a molecular level, thus it can easily get threw his shield, next yousless fact please

Never
What is Juggernaut's shield made of, dork? Exactly, you don't KNOW - so you were saying?

Ever heard of Full Potential Gambit? I didn't think so, so again - you were saying?

Marvel released a comic book where Wolverine's claws slashed open Silver Surfer's armor - does that mean that it is LIKELY? Yeah, I thought not - you were saying?

DC Comics released a comic book when Wolverine defeated Lobo - does that mean it is LIKELY? You were saying?

DC Comics released a crossover wherein Silver Surfer damn near killed Orion - does that mean it is LIKELY? Orion is a NEW GOD, Silver Surfer is a HERALD - you were SAYING? I thought not.

LoL @ Cyclops and Bishop being goons, how old are you? 12?

Happy Dance

venomfan
IM A DORK! LOL that was good, no really when you think about how you and your co-workers at the comic book shop must be the hippest dudes around, i PROVEDy point end disscusion move on you lost

Never
Marvel Comics released a comic book entitled "What If The Punisher Killed The Marvel Universe?"

Inside, The Punisher (who you say is WEAK) killed all the Marvel Universe - could VENOM do that? No. LoL

Does that mean that it is in CONTINUITY? According to your warped logic, "WELL THEY RELEASED IT SO OMG DUDES IT HAPPENED!!!!"

Lol, you know ZERO about comic books.

venomfan
i say what happend in comics is the outcome, yeah i dont know anything. do you realize how pitifull your argument is? you should go back to your cheetoos and hary potter

venomfan
i never siad punisher was weak. any how you are not going to convince anyone just becuase you think you know everything(except what actually happens in marvel apparently) so go ahead say what you want, but know one cares

why do you even care anyway? you dont like to read about say wolverine slashing sufer, so why read them? you should just stop readin becuase you dont like what happens.

actually all vs threads are sort of unnescacary any time its a vs between people who already fought you have your answer unless they fought more than once and both sides have one

Never
Lol, MY argument? Let's look at yours:







Your entire fayboy argument centers around your one "point" - MARVEL COMICS RELEASSED IT SO IT MEANS IT REALLY HAPPEND !!!!111

Which I countered with:

1. It was NOT in continuity.
2. Marvel releases hash jobs often - for example, Wolverine slashing Silver Surfer's armor (impossible); the entire "What If" series
3. Mini-series are often NOT in continuity
4. Lots of crossovers are NOT in continuity
5. Ask ANY reputable comicbook writer/editor and they will tell you Juggernaut will stomp a hole in Venom (can even ask www.comixfan.com - but don't go there if you don't want your witty feewings hurt)
6. Juggernaut is invulnerable, can lift 100 tons, and can take more damage than most characters in Marvel Comics (think Venom could survive being backhanded from Canada to New York by Onslaught? LoL)

Again - how old are you, 12 Happy Dance Venom could never stand a chance with Juggernaut OR Hulk. I'll let you have the last word though since your feelings are hurt big grin

venomfan
im a fanboy? and im 12? yeah im the one who is hurting for an argument, look geek im 18 years old and attending college and have applied for a job at marvel. you on the other hand seem to be hanging out with a bunch of fat guys talking to cardboard cut outs of chewbacca. the venom juggernuat battle was 3 issues marvel/dc all access was 4 any more bright ideas?

Never
How long was the KINGDOM COME Marvel DC Crossover where Venom kicked Superman's ass? Have any pictures of THAT one, son?

Yes you're a FANBOY because if anyone says anything negative about your little VENOM you get upset and start hurling insults.

And by the way...your name is VENOMFAN, or didn't you notice? laughing out loud

venomfan
you are a total dushe but you dont notice that
read a review of marvel/dc all access before you say anymore stupid sh1t

Never
Nice cover. Where is the cover for this one?



I mean, you DID say "do you know(i doubt it) that during the marvel DC crossover that superman kicked just about every bodys ass, EXCEPT venom. YES IT HAPPEND IN KINGDOME COME."

Since you doubt that I know - show me the cover, please?

venomfan
wow good job i was wrong about a title, and your wrong on just about this entire dispute thanks for making that more obvious

Never
How did you "prove" that I was wrong, Venomfan? You said "well Marvel releassed it so it happened!!!!111"

Did I say that it did NOT happen? Where did I say that? Quote for me where I said that, Venomfan?

Notice how your argument is slowly falling apart? sick

venomfan
no i notice your getting desperate and vague. you havent made a worthwhile statement yet all you post is your idea of what would happen

venomfan
this is a review of all access get your tissues ready

From Paul
I was searching the net and saw your page on All Access where Venom almost kills Spider-Man and Superman if Access hadn't arrived on time with the sonic gun. The reason The Hulk couldn't handle Superman and Venom could is because Venom could kick The Hulks behind and anybody else in any comic book. The only person that could put up a fight with Venom is Wolverine but he couldn't even do it. I ain't saying that Superman is a wuss because he is pretty tough, but he couldn't beat Venom. The only way Spider-Man ever beat Venom was with trickery, getting someone else like the Fantstic Four to help him, or that Sonic Gun. Spider-Man is tough too, but like I said, he couldn't beat Venom. Now if Superman and Spider-Man got in a fight, I don't know who would win. I just wanted to get things straight about your outlook on Venom.

before you whine about hulk just focus on the actual info on all access

venomfan
not enuf? go to www.supermantv.com and seach venom vs superman, read the review on a SUPERMAN site it will state the same thing

Never
Is www.supermantv.com associated with DC Comics? Why would I give an air biscuit about a site that is not affiliated with DC Comics? Remember you told me that www.marveldirectory.com "is not affiliated with Marvel Comics?"

But I'm supposed to go by what is said on that site? LoL roll eyes (sarcastic)

By the way, I stopped reading when I saw this:



No WONDER you like what he is saying; he's as clueless as you are! laughing

Oops I'm supposed to be letting you have the last word. I forgot. I sorry confused

You da man now, dawg!

venomfan
jesus your lame. it happend you can piss and moan all you want but to bad.


DAWG wink by the way that aint clever

Never
Clearly you've never seen "Finding Forrester."

18 years old...LoL. I was collecting comic books before you were born roll eyes (sarcastic)

venomfan
finding forrester? you gotta be joking. if you are older than me id hope you were mature enuf to know how lame argueing over the internet is

Myth
Sorry for not reading all of these so this may have been pretty much brought up already.

Venom could defeat Juggy while Ghost Rider steers clear of Hulk. Then Venoms spikes could do some damage on Hulk but if its not just that easy, his suit could go onto Ghost Rider. Imagine how cool that'd be, Venom-Ghost-Rider! YES!

venomfan
yeah this was a lenghty dispute, but you brought up a good point Venom-GhostRider could probably do some damage

Eidolon
Never are you even looking at this logically? Juggy has been defreated many times, it doesn't matter how or when the fact remains that despite his powers there were and still are ways to beat him. The whole deal with many comic characters is them overcoming high odds for failure ending up with the bad guy loseing (in most cases).

Unless there is a more recent comic in which Venom and Juggy battle the only factual MARVEL evidence as to how a battle would go is with Venom winning. Sure the possibility of Juggy wasting Venom is there, but so is that of Venom winning Juggy, as both characters have undergone substantial power boosts since their battle.

Next I've never made the claim that Venom could get through Juggy's shield by hitting him I merely suggested the possiblility of the symbiote entering through the shield on a molecular level. You say the only thing that can get through is light, but you're wrong so can sound I wonder how much else you don't know hmm... for starters Juggy's shield is only mantained at the cost of energy. The longer he keeps it up the more exhausted he gets.

I'm sure most comic book store employees know more info on characters but it doesn't mean THEY DICTATE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF 2 FOUGHT without any Marvel comic to back them up. Additionally your collecting comics for 22 + years doesn't mean you could dictate what would happen in a fight between Marvel characters without Marvel backing.

Next Venom isn't Dumb if you read any of those thousands of comics you have on Venom you'd know that. Eddie was a top student at school, granted it doesn't mean he's smart, but does prove he can learn and focus on problems. While Venom is no Reed Richards there have been plenty of comics in which Venom has understood tech enough to use it against his opponents, where he's set elaborate traps, and where he's quickly adopted new fighting styles to match his opponents. So yes with his agility and camo abilites he could hide or avoid Juggy long enough to defeat him.

As for Hulk I admit I've underated him so far, but he is still defeatable. I think the possibility of Venom using his camo to avoid Hulk untill Hulk calms down thus weaker and then suprise attacking him to knock him out may work (don't give me any crap about that not working cause I've seen that tactic used before on Hulk and work). If not that I still hold on to the POSSIBLIITY of Venom's Symbiote partially controlling or calming Hulk down (and don't give me any "Hulk has no mind" crap either. To get mad one needs emotions, which means thinking which means a mind). I admit the odds are still in Hulk's favor, but he isn't unbeatable to Venom and Ghost.

Ghost could pull Hulk off, keeping out of reach while Venom deals with Juggy, and once Juggy is dealt with then focus on Hulk.

Eidolon
Also Never you say that what Marvel releases isn't true, but what you say, cause you've collected comics for 22+ yr, is true? I guess you should just send a letter to Marvel telling them how stupid it was of them to do a comic of Venom defeating Juggy because you say so, don't forget to include that they do a lot of hash job comics (cause I suppose you can do them so much better).

As for the comic you brought up regarding what if the Punisher killed everyone in the Marvel universe...well if means just that...WHAT IF the Punisher killed everyone. Since you say Marvel wrote it as a comic that didn't happen but rather a comic of what if it did, sure you could argue as to whether or not Punisher could do it. However Venom did defeat Juggy so really there is no what if.

Never
Eidolon, are you viewing this logically? Galactus has been defeated many times, would VENOM defeat him?

If Juggernaut has been boosted dramatically that means simply that his already Class 100 strength (the uppermost limits of which is NOT known) just went through the roof. He was already INVULNERABLE (Venom is NOT), his MUTANT ability is that, once moving forward, he CANNOT BE STOPPED. Get it through your head - or are you another clueless fanboy? confused

No, the symbiote cannot enter Juggernaut's field on a "molecular level." Period.



PROVE sound can. And um, JUGGERNAUT does not have to EAT. He does not have to BREATHE. He does not have to DRINK WATER. If there is no AIR in the forcefield, there is no SOUND (or do you not know that sound is nothing more than vibrations in the AIR). The GEM can power him INDEFINITELY - what else is it that you do not know about Juggernaut? From his OFFICIAL bio from the Handbook of the Marvel Universe:

"The Juggernaut can shield himself even further from injury by mentally surrounding himself with a force field. Enveloped by his force field, the Juggernaut has survived the fiery explosion of a truck transporting a huge quantity of oil without any injury whatsoever.

>>>>>The Juggernaut can survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen. He is sustained by his mystical energies alone."<<<<<<<<<<<

Venom is DUMB as compared to SPIDERMAN, SUPERMAN and PUNISHER. This is what I MEANT. His ability from a tactical perspective negligible at BEST.

Venom is not even as agile or quick as Spiderman is. Hush.

Again, your comments about Hulk underscores your ignorance in general. "Powers down?" The WEAKEST version of Hulk can lift SEVENTY TONS while calm - so um, how weak do you think Hulk gets? Like to see the info for yourself?

"All the incarnations of the Hulk, except for the Grey Hulk, can lift approximately 100 tons when calm. The Grey Hulk starts off at approximately 75 tons. There has never been a limit shown as to the highest strength the Hulk can reach thus it is assumed it is limitless. The Hulk has shown many incredible feats of the years, including holding up a 150 billion ton mountain during the Secret Wars and breaking open Onslaught's armor when the combined might of the rest of the world's heroes couldn't even make a scratch in it."

Why are you even MENTIONING Venom's sorry name in the same sentence with Hulk and Juggernaut? Hush it up. Seriously. Neither Venom or Ghost Rider could do a THING with Hulk except get out of the way. I have said before (you MUST not know your comic books) that the ENTIRE AVENGERS could not do a thing with Hulk - but VENOM and GHOSTRIDER could? laughing Need I even touch on HULK'S HEALING FACTOR which is better than Wolverine's? Whoops oops you forgot about that hunh?

My God, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING about who WROTE "What If Punisher Could Kill The Marvel Universe?" GARTH Ennis did, who HATES SUPERHEROES! Helllllllo??? It was SATIRE. NO, Punisher could never kill the Marvel Universe.

Clueless you two are, I tell you.

Eidolon
If Juggy can still hear with his force field up then sound can enter. I know Juggy is unstoppable moving foward, but I never said Venom or Ghost would even attempt to stand infront of him and try to stop him that way. Venom's symbiote may not be able to get through Juggy's force field, but you've no proof it can't. Juggy is isn't well protected against mystical attacks which is what Ghost Riders Hell fire is, thus PROBABLY making Ghost Riders Hell fire attack and stare effective against Juggy. Also Juggy was once neutralized by a Robot form the future, which used something like sound/radio waves to knock Juggy out. It was then said that even Juggys force field may have not protected against that attack.

Juggy can't keep up his force field for ever other wise why would he ever take it down. The force field physically taxi's Cains energy.

As for Hulk, if you say no physical attack done on him would have any noticable affect that's fine by me I could see that, but my main argument for taking him down is by taking control of him with the symbiote and getting him to convert back to Banner and then killing him. I know Leader and Onslaught have been able to mind control Hulk (and probably others). Neither Venom nor Ghost have telepathic abilities but the Symbiote is said to need emotion to survie and communicates in a similar fashion to that of telepathy once on a host. I'm just saying it's a possibility.

Finally, you've mistaken what I said about the Punisher comic in which he kills everyone. First of all if it was released by Marvel all it says is WHAT IF meaning punisher killed/s all the Marvel heros and what would then happen. Not to say it could happen since it hasn't unlike Venom's and Juggy's fight.

Eidolon
Venom sticks to walls controlling the flux of inter-atomic attraction between molecular boundary layers. Thus maby he may be able to sneak his Symbiote in through Juggy's force field, cause of the symbiote's ability to convert to data streams (allowing to converse cyber space) and the limited ability on control on molecular boundary layers upon contact. If it can get through I could take control of Juggy. After all Juggy doesn't need food, water, oxygen, ect... but it doesn't say what all exactly can go through his force field.

venomfan
this is how easy juggernuat can be beatin, dont gimme that immpenetrable force field crap becuase if it was as "perfect" as you belive it is then not even onsluaght could have harmend him.

one move and juggys toast, venom is deffinetly fast and agile enuf to shoot webbing threw juggernuats eye holes, he would have to take of his own helmet to clear the webbing, and he gets worked when it comes off.
YOU yourself said Ghostrider cannot be harmend by physical means alone, and what can either juggernuat, or hulk do to ghostrider(this is if professor hulk had no prep time and was not armed with any of his weapons).

there you go, i just yoused your own argument. and even if you dont like it TOO BAD JUGGERNUAT LOST!!

Never
Are you certain that you know what Ghost Rider's attack does? It traumatizes the human soul. Mmmkay...then what? Exactly. That's just it. Mindless Hulk HAS no human soul...mmmkay?

Venom's symbiote cannot penetrate Juggernaut's forcefield, period - and hell, Juggernaut would not NEED his forcefield to defeat Venom. Do not take my word for it (as apparently you are not); contact someone affiliated with Marvel Comics. Hell, ANYONE with sufficient knowledge of Venom AND Juggernaut. THEY'LL tell you. I point out AGAIN that entire SQUADS are called upon to deal with Juggernaut. WHO is Venom? He simply does not register on the "superhero radar." He is a JOKE! He MIGHT be able to trash a neighborhood on a GOOD day.

Juggernaut's forcefield does NOT tax Cain's energy. YOU read it. Juggernaut can be sustained on the gem's energy alone; furthermore, Juggernaut does not use his forcefield often. That is solely up to the WRITER. Thor, for example, has TONS of abilities that are not often used in story arcs. WHY? The writer.

I keep saying MINDLESS Hulk. Dude, do you know who MINDLESS Hulk is? No? Another quote, then.

"First Appearance:The Incredible Hulk #299

Identity Basis: The body of the Savage Hulk with all personas supressed.

Strength: This incarnation can lift in excess of 100 tons. This incarnation's strength increased as his anger increased.
Intelligence: Animal level intelligence, basic survival instinct

Transformation: This incarnation did not transform."

Pay very, very close attention to the very last line. Close attention. Here, I'll type it again:

Transformation: THIS INCARNATION DID NOT TRANSFORM." This means...um...NO BRUCE BANNER?

The Professor. NO BRUCE BANNER? Wait now, don't take MY word for it (since, according to YOU and Venomfan, I know little):

"First Appearance:The Incredible Hulk #377

Identity Basis: This is the idealized version of Bruce where he has all the strength of the Savage Hulk and the intelligence of Bruce Banner but none of the emotional baggage, awkwardness or shyness.

Strength: This incarnation can lift over 100 tons.
Intelligence: Genius

Transformation: This version does not transform."

Whoa now. WAIT! Hoooold up. Read that last line again? One more time:

Transformation: This version does not transform."

Ack! Wait a minute - again, NO BRUCE BANNER to turn into? Hello?

I DID mention three versions, correct? Mindless, Professor, and - GREY HULK:

"First Appearance: The Incredible Hulk #1

Also Known As: Joe Fixit

Identity Basis: This incarnation represents the personality that can do all the not so nice things that Bruce was to unsure of to do himself. Tricky, manipulative, shows little thought of others make up some of his traits.

Strength: This incarnation can lift approximately 75 tons. This incarnation does possess the "madder he gets, the stronger he gets" ability but at a much slower rate since this incarnation has some level of intelligence and reasoning and would not "lose control" as easy as the Savage Hulk incarnation.
Intelligence: Normal

Transformation: Initially, Bruce would transform into the Grey Hulk at night and then back at dawn. This was subconscious due to the fact that Bruce was ashamed of the dark, not very nice thoughts the Grey Hulk represented and would only let him out at night, in the dark, where he wouldn't be seen. >>>>>Later, the change was due to will power."<<<<<

Um, notice the last line with the nice and neat little arrows? HE CHANGES ACCORDING TO WHIMSY. If he does NOT want to revert to Bruce Banner, he does NOT. Did I now TOTALLY - and LOGICALLY - refute your assertation that Venom could "force Hulk to calm down and turn back into Bruce Banner?"

Since I do not debate logically and all. And, um, AGAIN, just what would Hulk be doing while Venom attempts to "bond" with him? Playing pattycake? Apparently YOU do not know how quick Hulk is. Hulk would EASILY backhand Venom from Virginia to Iraq. Hulk beat THOR UNCONSCIOUS. *sigh* You don't get it. LoL @ even mentioning Venom in the same breath.

Re: The Punisher - once AGAIN, it was written by Garth Ennis as a PARODY because he HATES SUPERHEROES. Get it now? "Oh what the hell, I will write a WHAT IF PUNISHER KILLED THE MARVEL UNIVERSE." They DO have realistic takes on alternate realities as caused by a "what if" in Marvel - for example, "What If Phoenix Had Lived." Am I making myself perfectly clear?

LoL @ Venom's symbiote "converting to data streams." Someone has been watching waaaay too much Fear.com laughing

Venomfan, shut up. I said Ghostrider cannot be harmed by CONVENTIONAL means. Being the aspiring Marvel writer that you are, look up the term and get back to me. Squirting webbing into Juggernaut's eyes... laughing out loud

venomfan
CONTACT SOMEONE FROM MARVEL!!! you dont deserve those luaghing pics. go ahead and contact them they say...........didnt you READ the issue?

you would say somthin like no but my buddies at the comic book shop*

then MARVEL says maybe you should read the comics instead of mkaing up your own little senarios

Never
LoL, you are 12, aren't you? wink

venomfan
oh here we go again, you have no argument so you make stupid comments. good one DAWG

Never
Hmm, this was not a "stupid comment" - DAWG?



"Because Marvel printed it so it means it HAPPENED!!" isn't a stupid comment, DAWG - considering both Marvel AND DC have admitted to making mistakes (Grant Morrison on Orion, John Byrne on Darkseid, DC Comics on the Blue Superman, Marvel Comics on The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe)?

Have you not heard of casting a comic book character OUT OF CHARACTER?

You are 12, aren't you? wink And WAY out of your league too, I might add.

Juggernaut = way more powerful than Venom could ever dream of being. End of story.

venomfan
not to mention im going to a art college,that would imply that i aspire to be one of the many artist working for marvel, not a writer.
unlike you i enjoy the marvel comics and dont blast them when somthing happens that"is immposible".
i would like to be a writer but i would rather start my own series if i wrote the comics it would kill the intreset for the character(i know not all writers feel this way but i would) you on the other hand only seem to want three people dominating marvel, of course Juggernuat seems invincible like Edilion said the whole point is seeing heros triumph.

so to end this all ready meaningless discusion i have said Venom could not beat Juggernuat in a fight, if you locked them in a box venom and ghostrider would lose. but in the open juggernuat would let down hulk

venomfan
for the last time you find ANY proof that marvel comics made a mistake on Venom:the madness and i will say you have room for a argument, until then you are not even in a league all you can do is whine about me being 12(wich is very lame by the way, good job). YOU HAVE YET TO PROVE EITHER CAN "DEFEAT" venom we all know there stronger thanks for pointing it out a million times

venomfan
here it is strait from the marvel website, the OFFICIAL MARVEL BIO PAGE
venom(i rounded down both venom and juggernuat if it was over half)
on a scale of 0-7
intelligence 2.5
strength 4.5
speed 4
durability 1
agility 4
reflexes 4
fighting skills 2.5
overall 22.5
Juggernuat
intellegence 2.5
strength 7
speed 1
durability 7
agility 1
reflexes 1
fighting skills 2.5
overall 22
see, statisticly better, and he won in the comics END DISSCUSION

Hulkster
Well lets see venom won in the comics, his stats are better, two people agree with venomfan. It looks to me like never is wrong, but hulk could still kick his ass.....j/k i think that would be an awsome fight.

Drizzle
unless it's Onslaught and Galactus or something.... no one is gonna be able to take out Hulk and Juggernaut at the same time.

guyverjay
Are you on crack?

Venom never took out juggy. Infact venom got beaten up the entire issue . In the end juggy got bored of beating seven shades of crap out of venom and left.

Linkalicious
I love how everyone tea bags on the idea that Galacticus is anything more than a chump. I've never read a comic where he did anything other than lose. He has great power, but never uses it in a fight. Besides the fact that he dwarfs the planet earth, his only real attribute is that he bestows the power cosmic on his heralds...who ultimately leave him because he's a loser in purple armor and an ugly helmet. And i'm completely convinced that Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic) could take out Hulk and Juggy because he can do anything in the marvel universe. He'd just make sum bull sh*t gun that would be able to immobilize them or incapacitate them (though i know that's extremely difficult to do). Not saying Reed is a great fighter, but he's a brilliant scientist.

Eidolon
I'll concede that Venom and Ghost wouldn't be able to defeat untransformable Hulk, but I don't think it'd take much for Venom and Ghost to just get Hulk to just leave, out of Boardem, by manuvering out of his way and staying hidden then.

It would then give Venom and Ghost all the time in the world to beat up on Juggy. Ghosts Hell fire (a mystical fire, which means the capbabliity to affect Juggy) can KILL OR INSTILL FEAR, PAIN, AND REMORSE to anyone Ghost hits them with granted they have a human soul, which Juggy qualifies at.

Venom's ability to control the Symbiote on a molecular level and transporting it through data streams has more realism to it than Juggy's Gem which magically gives him "invincibility".

As I said earlier it was considered a good possibility that using the correct sound and/or radio frequencies have the possibilty of passing through Juggy's force field (coming from a comic with Juggy being knocked out from a Furtistic Robot employing that attack). I'm not saying it's a sure thing that Venom could enter through Juggy's force field, but the evidence point to things being able to get through, and on the molecular level.

If Juggy's Force field does not drain Juggy's energy it simply means he's too stupid to keep it up constently during battle which means Venom and Ghost would just have to make their surgical strikes at the right time. It is stated in Juggy's bio that he doesn't use his powers effectivly.

guyverjay
Pppfffffttt Juggy would waste venom and GR with ease. The PENANCE stare isn't going to work. Juggy had the sheer mental strength to fight off cytorrak himself in the 8th day. So what if Nimrod effeted juggy with his sonic attack. Juggy has whupped venom ass and would easily whup GR's ass. GR couldn't even fight off the brood

venomfan
HAS whooped venoms ass? did you even read the MARVEL statistics and the fact venom beat him in the SERIES! it was more than one issue. i used to like juggernuat but this argument has made me realize he is a idiot who gets canned all the time. did you see where superman flew up and smacked juggy like th slow moron he is, then venom came to the DC universe and almost killed superman and spiderman.

guyverjay
Wow you're using the crossovers as reference, what a surpriseroll eyes (sarcastic)

venomfan
what a suprise? what else do i need to say? the unstopable Juggernuat is a myth nowadays, how long has it been since he has throtteld anyone worth mentioning? like i posted before cry all you want Venom is overall the better character 22.5 to 22, he won in the comics, and he beats people that juggernuat cant. its over VENOM WINS.

Linkalicious
Venom may win vs Juggy, but he ultimately loses for the stupidest of all reasons.

So after this great fight Venom and GR go out for a couple of beers to celebrate. Well about 6-7 pitchers into the night Ghost Rider (who doesn't handle his alchy very well) feels his stomach shift. Venom looks at him like the freak he is, what with a flaming skull and all. And then outta no where Ghost Rider lets out this Hellacious burp that sends Hell Fire scortching across then table and right into Venoms face. Well needless to say "Mr. Symbiote" doesn't like hell fire that much so it moves outta the way leaving eddie brock exposed while this flame thrower of a burp chars Venom to death....the end.

(obviously this is a joke so nobody better get butt hurt and rant on about "that never happening" because well......no sh*t obviously this didn't happen)

Never
Where did you get this from? According to the ***official*** Handbook of the Marvel Universe (have you ever seen one?), it - quote - "traumatizes the human soul."



What???? They are both comic books, one; two, Venom has a symbiotic relationship with a nigh-sentient alien costume. That is "REALISTIC?" Ookay then.



As I said earlier, that is ENTIRELY up to the WRITER. For EXAMPLE, I hope you are aware of who EMMA FROST is. Have you EVER seen her turn into a diamond before? NO. Grant Morrison, in the New X-Men, granted her this ability to turn into a DIAMOND. ONE writer might allow sound to penetrate Juggernaut's forcefield. ANOTHER writer might not. Do you now see what I said that it depends on the WRITER? I mean, seriously, does this not make sense?



You, like venomfan, resort to copouts when presented with information that successfully defends my points and subsequently refutes yours. Notice that it is "also stated" in Juggernaut's bio his durability threshhold? Juggernaut is capable of taking more punishment than damn near anyone in the entire Marvel Universe.

Let me show you further evidence that I know what I am talking about and...well...frankly, you need further schooling.

Recall my saying Juggernaut is not bright? Recall my saying that Venom is also not bright (you said he is not "dumb" but said Juggernaut is "dumb"wink?

Well it says RIGHT HERE:

Juggernuat
intellegence 2.5

Venom
intelligence 2.5

Whoa. WHOA? *sigh* But you don't want to listen. Exhibit number two?

I just stated that Juggernaut is capable of taking more punishment than damn near anyone. Although I do not AGREE with this rating, it in SOME way underscores my point:

durability 7 <<<<<<

Venom's durability?

durability 1 <<<<<<

Hello? Earth to Houston?

This means that, according to that website (notice Venomfan did not give the URL? LMAO), Juggernaut is roughly SEVEN TIMES more durable than Venom. SEVEN TIMES.

They are EQUALLY DUMB.

Venom is faster, more agile, and has quicker reflexes. That should have been UNDERSTOOD.

Juggernaut is FAR STRONGER (stronger than indicated here) than Venom, and FAR MORE DURABLE.

So, bucko, in a LONG, DRAG OUT FIGHT (which it WOULD BE), Venom would land more hits (little DINKS) while Juggernaut would probably land ONE.

And lordy, when that ONE LANDS...

"Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today..."

Linkalicious
"kids hurry you'll be late for school"........

"Yes mom"

venomfan
HAHAHA! that is the weakest suace i have ever seen, you didnt go over everything did you? no you didnt becuase you wanna belive your own hype. you did intellegence and durability and strengh a tie and two for juggy. were as venom is superior in agility,speed and reflexes. hmm 2 to 3? oh yeah im still right. not to mention the total statistic wich put venom over by .5 that means MARVEL itself has shown venom to be able too beat juggernuat in
A:comics
B:statistics
C:defeating charaters juggernuat cant

why waste your time with stupid arguments.
ONLY POST MARVEL COMICS REFERENCES THAT WOULD AID YOUR ARGUMENT!! not your ideal world were you dont have to read comics you can make up what happens

by the way yes juggernuats durability actauly surpass'es the 7, but to portray those stats here i rounded them down. just so you dont painc and say OMG you coped out! i rounded down 3 of venoms stats.Strength,Fighting, ability, and intellegence

to refine my point. with hulk and ghostrider out of the picture i know Venom could not beat juggernuat in a fight. but i do belive he could "DEFEAT" him(wich he did). realy thats the only way anyone beats juggernuat.

Never
LoL - just turned 13 today? smile

Notice I pointed out that Venom is superior is reflexes, agility, and speed? If you missed it, I will quote it for you:



See it now? Does that not say the EXACT same thing that you said by posting these "statistics?" Hmmmm?

That being said, SPIDERMAN is faster, more agile, and has quicker reflexes. He is also MORE intelligent. So he outgrades Juggernaut too, correct? Juggernaut is only stronger and more durable.

So...according to YOUR logic...because Spiderman "beats" Juggernaut in statistics, he would win in an actual battle? LMAO!

Notice that Superman is faster, quicker, more agile, has better reflexes, and is more durable than Batman? Batman only has Superman in the smarts department.

Also notice that Batman thumped Superman's ass in DKR and in DKSB? Hmmm?

So exactly what do those statistics mean in an actual fight?

Squat.

Magneto stronger and smarter than Venom. Venom has more fighting skills, is more durable, is more agile, has better reflexes.

Magneto would utterly DESTROY Venom. Simply manipulate the iron in his BLOOD.

Next argument you would like me to pick apart?

venomfan
logic? you actually have none
MARVEL itself has shown venom to be able too beat juggernuat in
A:comics
B:statistics
C:defeating charaters juggernuat cant
i said that once I will say it again. I unlike you have a POINT
is magneto even in this disscusion? no, you bring a lot of other characters into this becuase you have no basis for Juggernuat.
i won this argument a long time ago. move on

venomfan
"Mindless Hulk HAS no human soul...mmmkay?" no soul? ever heard of DEVIL HULK? oh yeah probably not cuase you dont read comics

Never
LMAO, Magneto = an example of one who has less "statistics" but would own Venom's ASS.

You say "Venom wins in STATISTICS!!" Whoop de doo. Art College, you say? Or Art High School? smile

Devil Hulk first appeared in Hulk #12. Hulk is one of my favorite characters, with Spiderman and Daredevil. LoL, clearly you forgot to whom you are talking.

Go Venomfan, it's your birthday! Happy Dance

venomfan
LMAO hulk fan? you said he didnt have a soul, i point out devil hulk you say im 13

GO NEVER, GO NEVER! {Cuagh} loser {Cuagh}

Hulkster
Hey Never... though you say you have knowledge about the subject, your imature arguing says otherwise. You need to just grow up and face the facts that you are wrong and grow up a bit alright. Oh ya.... Don't Cry after you read this. Thanks

venomfan
nice sig

Eidolon
Never you brought the issue of Venom's powers being unreal while saying nothing about the unrealness of Juggy's.

Next you say, the ability of Venom's Symbiote making it's way past Juggy's force shield is up to the writer. Congratulations that's pertty much what I've been refering to, "THE POSSIBLITY OF VENOM GETTING THROUGH JUGGY'S FORCE FEILD" I never said it was for sure, however unless the fight takes place in an enclosed area Juggy would never really be able to hit Venom IF Venom tried to avoid Juggy or stay out of range while using a camoflauged tendrel of Symbiote to enter Juggy's armor (if it's possible).

CHANCES are IF this fight WAS made into a Comic AND my idea for Venom's attack was used, I WOULD THINK it would work since Juggy IS MORE of a Bad Guy then Venom (Venom being a vigialanti now).

venomfan
totally, this argument will never end becuase we are all looking at it from differnt views. what it boils down to is what type of fight are we talking about.
if we are looking at this as a battle of abilities
a good guy bad guy fight
a what if
or a _____ comic series(hulk series for example)
how they have evolved, or have fought in the past

Eidolon
Fair enough

Linkalicious
Never doesn't need to cry...i'll do the crying for him. First off who the hell r u? where do u see flaw in Never's logic? As never pointed out...stats mean squat. Venom beating Juggy means squat because it's in Venom's own comic series. I see Never providing a very rigorous argument...

venomfan
stats dont mean squat, if you go to the actual marvel site it lists venom to be overall better than juggernuat. the point i was trying to prove is that there are pleanty of valid arguments showing that venom can beat juggernuat, but no referances that show juggernuat could win(i dont doubt he could). but never says its downright impossible,that Venom could defeat juggernuat. thats the only reason im still even posting
im im not going to stop tell he admits it

Linkalicious
fair nuff Veny...i dun like arguing with u n e way. I just still don't think stats mean crap. Reed Richards could beat either of them and his stats suck other than his intelligence. (note i said beat...not beat up)

venomfan
exactly, that is my whole point. this team thing venom and ghosty would lose, and i know juggernuat could beat venom, but i do belive venom can defeat juggernuat.

Hulkster
Who the Hell am I? Well I know one thing, I am not Hulkalicious...Gay(cough). Oh ya I forgot just because its Venoms Comic means he has to win. Why the Hell are there Stats If they don't even matter. You are a Moron.

Never
Of COURSE they are both "unreal" - they are COMIC BOOK CHARACTERS.



Um, let me say this one more time. Venom cannot beat Juggernaut by default; HOWEVER, a WRITER can pen a story arc in which Venom can win. Does that make sense now?

Um do you REALLY think Batman can beat Superman? If Superman so desired, Batman could not. Get it? But Batman has "won" twice already pursuant to the STORY ARC.

Sheesh. Sorry it hurts your feelings that Juggernaut is way way way WAY more powerful than Venom will ever be. Fact, period.



Thank God you do not write.



Yes, and Juggernaut is far superior in the stats that MATTER - strength and durability. Duh.



Point out **one** "fact" that I am wrong about - if you can smile

venomfan
review by justin anderson

the plot: Venom is going insane thanks to a virus. He's almost lost it. In the realm of insanity visited by so many, the Necromancer taunts him. This Necromancer is a murderer, and apparently admired Ghost Rider so much, took his form. Venom is now left to face the entity of Paranoia. In San Francisco, Juggernaut guards his hostage, waiting silently as his bosses tell him to sit still. He hates it. His hostage, Beck Underwood (who happens to be Venom's current girlfriend), sympathized with Juggernaut.

Venom, however, is being torn apart by bats and snakes. Only to find he can now grow claws, and defeats Paranoia, now that he no longer feels it. Necromancer attacks, only for Venom to destroy him. Finally, he faces Dusk, an entity that knows all heroes and villains are insane, and lives off it. Especially Wolverine and Spider-Man. Venom still defeats his madness, realizing that even if heroes are sometimes mad, they're right. The virus dies, leaving Venom back in reality.

The virus was the result of company experimentation. Experimentation which has led to kidnapping, and lies. Not to mention the death of an innocent, as Venom was inadvertently sent against the head of the company, only to kill a janitor by mistake.

Cops surround the apartment, but no one wants to move against Juggernaut. Except for Venom, who will gladly kill him. Back stops the fight, unwilling to see Venom kill again because of her. Juggernaut runs, leaving the two behind. After a quick discussion, Venom returns to the sewers to return the virus to where he found it, as his way to pay respect to it for what it showed him.

It's a revelation for Venom. He learns his two halves must work together, but Eddie must stay in control. He defeats his personal demons, and while he loses his lover, he gains a friend. We also see that Venom has a sense of honor, both against the virus, and his demons. He even lets Juggernaut live (and Venom could probably take him out).

the review: I love how Venom is drawn. The artistic style breaks from the old McFarlane design, taking more of a Sam Kieth approach. Which is why Venom, in this issue, reminds me of the Maxx. Venom has larger muscles, a bigger torso, and his face changes constantly, from his teeth disappearing, to his eyes taking new shapes, as opposed to the single face he often has.

They also add a bit of comedic scenery to the book, from Venom remarking on Wolverine's insanity, to the small rain cloud above his head as he hears his lover can no longer be his lover (not to mention, the sad, depressed look he's given in this panel is probably one we'll never see on his face again).

venomfan
He even lets Juggernaut live (and Venom could probably take him out).
yes that part was biased but dont disregard the review ONLY becuase of that

and go here its not really related to this and any fan should enjoy the library of marvel characters going nuts!
www.comicheroes.co.uk/movies.htm

Never
*yawn* confused

venomfan
please, like i said you have no argument so you try to quote or post little smileys
you do need to grow up and admit you were wrong

Linkalicious
Stats are there for comic book fan boys who have original names like "hulkster" so they can go spouting off about how great their favorite comic book hero is. Like I said earlier.....i don't give a rats ass how high the stats are on Juggernaut or Venom, a person with lower stats like Reed Richards would be able to beat both of them (not at once.) And the fact that Venom beat Juggernaut in a Venom Series of comic books makes all the difference in the world. I guarentee that if it were a Spidey Comic...Venom woulda got the sh.it kicked out of him until Spidey came to help.

venomfan
this Venom won cuase its his series crap is geting old, so every time a badguy loses its becuase it wasnt his series? have you seen all of the people Juggernaut fights one on one and loses too? he has basically fallin threw the cracks and became a guy everybody likes to see get pounded. did you know he joined the X-men?
yeah real headstrong badass
why dosent someone post a occurance were juggernuat acctualy defeated someone powerfull? and try to make it recent
GOOD LUCK

Never
LMAO. You're asking for a recent Juggernaut fight when the Venom: The Madness comic book was written in 1993?

How ironic is that?

Like taking candy from a baby, I tell ya...oh wait, you're how old again? Happy Dance

venomfan
so that means couldnt find any huh? what a suprise...

venomfan
laughing out loud laughing look i can use smileys too, i just like adding some kinda relevance to my posts

Never
He stomped a mudhole in Venom. Editorial:

"Editorial: Frankly, there is no way in Hell Venom takes this throttling conscious throughout the duration. Unless his durability was augmented 30-fold before this story,he should have been a motionless heap of alien symbiote and bitter reporter by only the second page. It should have been over long before the beating went from harsh to midieval. Despite Venom's apparent nigh-invulnerability though it is revealed in the next issue that The Juggernaut's pounding had in fact nearly killed him. But still..."

Apparently we aren't the ONLY ones who realize how ridiculous the story was laughing out loud

You also have Juggernaut battling Hulk numerous times, D'Spayre, and Thor after the Onslaught Saga.

He stomped the living hell out of Thor as well.

I think you were saying something about Juggernaut beating someone "recently...?"

venomfan
guess what i know were you got that, ive read the site it was a serious fanboy tear jerker about how his hero lost.at least my reviews arnt from venom fan sites. AS YOU WERE SAYINGHappy Dance Happy Dance

you clearly dont know, Juggernuat lost so much self confiedence he wined until pro. X let him join the X-men

and i mean RECENT, 2004 recent you have no idea whats going on in marvel do you?

has juggernuat ever been a global threat? not likely

venomfan
review by justin anderson

the plot: Venom is going insane thanks to a virus. He's almost lost it. In the realm of insanity visited by so many, the Necromancer taunts him. This Necromancer is a murderer, and apparently admired Ghost Rider so much, took his form. Venom is now left to face the entity of Paranoia. In San Francisco, Juggernaut guards his hostage, waiting silently as his bosses tell him to sit still. He hates it. His hostage, Beck Underwood (who happens to be Venom's current girlfriend), sympathized with Juggernaut.

Venom, however, is being torn apart by bats and snakes. Only to find he can now grow claws, and defeats Paranoia, now that he no longer feels it. Necromancer attacks, only for Venom to destroy him. Finally, he faces Dusk, an entity that knows all heroes and villains are insane, and lives off it. Especially Wolverine and Spider-Man. Venom still defeats his madness, realizing that even if heroes are sometimes mad, they're right. The virus dies, leaving Venom back in reality.

The virus was the result of company experimentation. Experimentation which has led to kidnapping, and lies. Not to mention the death of an innocent, as Venom was inadvertently sent against the head of the company, only to kill a janitor by mistake.

Cops surround the apartment, but no one wants to move against Juggernaut. Except for Venom, who will gladly kill him. Back stops the fight, unwilling to see Venom kill again because of her. Juggernaut runs, leaving the two behind. After a quick discussion, Venom returns to the sewers to return the virus to where he found it, as his way to pay respect to it for what it showed him.

It's a revelation for Venom. He learns his two halves must work together, but Eddie must stay in control. He defeats his personal demons, and while he loses his lover, he gains a friend. We also see that Venom has a sense of honor, both against the virus, and his demons. He even lets Juggernaut live (and Venom could probably take him out).

the review: I love how Venom is drawn. The artistic style breaks from the old McFarlane design, taking more of a Sam Kieth approach. Which is why Venom, in this issue, reminds me of the Maxx. Venom has larger muscles, a bigger torso, and his face changes constantly, from his teeth disappearing, to his eyes taking new shapes, as opposed to the single face he often has.

They also add a bit of comedic scenery to the book, from Venom remarking on Wolverine's insanity, to the small rain cloud above his head as he hears his lover can no longer be his lover (not to mention, the sad, depressed look he's given in this panel is probably one we'll never see on his face again).

what do you know, the review i posted goes into detail......

are you sure you have been collecting comics for 22 years?
cuase those things in the middle of the sunday paper arnt Marvel comics.
So it looks like you got some catching up to do....

Never
One, he was on point, "fanboy" or not. Juggernaut = 30 times more durable than Venom.

Two, what was that garbage that you posted? Who the hell is Justin Anderson? LoL @ "Venom will gladly kill him."

Juggernaut stomped the living hell out of Thor and Venom is supposedly stronger? LoL rolling on floor laughing

Has Venom ever been a neighborhood threat? Not likely~

Who gives a crap if Juggernaut lost self-confidence? And um, you BETTER mean Uncanny (which I don't read) and not NEW X-Men, because Juggernaut damn sure isn't with the NEW X-Men.

After all of your whining, Juggernaut is still 10x stronger, 30x more durable, and 10x more dangerous than wimpy Venom.

Pound sand~

venomfan
pound sand? thats sad buddy no im convinced your some middle school jerk off.

Juggernaut stomped the living hell out of Thor and Venom is supposedly stronger? that matters why?

no im pretty sure you dont read comics altogether
so post another smiley and grab your funions, you got a lot of reading to do

Eidolon
Venomfan the editorial Never Posted, I found on a Juggernaught web site and only referes to the fist comic in which Venom is distracted by the virus talking to him in the sewers. In the next 2 comics both engagments end with Venom having the upper hand. Also Juggy never stomped Thor, Thor was the winner in both of their fights. In one fight Thor removed Juggy's force field with his magic hammer and then proceeded to pound the crap out of Juggy.

Never you only read New X-men, out of curosity what does that do to your sense of In or Out of countunity for Juggy then?

venomfan
yeah saw that site a while ago, it was a serious fanboy attempt to cover up juggernuat geting his as kicked AGAIN, I think he dosent read comics all together, and just looks at him marvel directory, i havent even gone into how the CURRENT 2004 Venom would absolutley mop the floor with juggernuat.
and yes he is a GLOBAL threat wether you like it or not
the symbiote changed into a self reliable "Venom" now it kills at will and is basically immune to physical harm(wolverine torn it to shreds and it luaghs at him)

Never
My "sense" of in and out of continuity, Eidolon? What exactly do you mean?

For example, Venom vs. Juggernaut was OUT of continuity.

JLA vs. Avengers = IN continuity.

Elektra: Assassin = IN continuity.

Dark Knight Returns = OUT of continuity.

Umm, Juggernaut never stomped Thor? Do you HAVE the comic book? If so, QUOTE for me a few of their exchanges and tell me EXACTLY what page it is on - stop paraphrasing websites.

Do you even know how many times they have met? Without researching the internet, Eidolon. No, you do not.

Venomfan you don't even know what a "global threat" is roll eyes (sarcastic)

Surtur = "global threat."

Magneto = "global threat."

Juggernaut = "global threat."

Venom = local threat. LoL, you take fanboyism to unprecedented heights.

venomfan
NEVER maybe the name fits you becuase you NEVER read comics you belive you know everything but you dont even know when to shut up
MAGNETO IS DEAD! how is that a global threat?
go ahead and call me a fanboy, at least I know what im talking about

you may know a lot about marvel,but you know jack about venom. his bio on marvel directory is not all there is too him.

THE CURRENT 2004 VENOM would murder juggernuat, but since you dont know what to say you talk about magneto AGAIN and call me a fanboy

Oh whats that? i think your dungeons and dragons buddies are calling run along little boy

Never
Who cares if Magneto JUST DIED in New X-Men - you know, when Wolverine slashed his head off after he gave Phoenix a GLOBAL (there's that word again) scale stroke? Right after Magneto, while under the influence of Kick (the DRUG that enhances one's mutant abilities by a factor of ~10), switched the earth's north and south poles, tearing the very fabric of the space-time continuum.

You know, the one with the cover that says "Special 150th Issue?" With Wolverine on his knees and Jean Greay in the background? Right before the issue that Marc Silvestri (you know, the one that used to pen The Darkness) penciled?

But I would not know any of that because I NEVER read comics...right?

I also would not know about Spiderman bouncing around the X-Men in Secret Wars before Xavier mindwiped him because I NEVER read comics...right?

Has Juggernaut even APPEARED in a comic in 2004? So how would you know what his abilities are?

Say it with me: "My name is Venomfan, and I'm a recovering fanboy..."

venomfan
wow, here we go with the fanboy crap.
the funny thing is you said in the spiderman vs xmen thread that spidey beat up wolvie and xaiver in the secret wars, but how can that be true becuase it wasnt a X-men comic? apparently thats the only way someone can lose
look you dont know jack about the venom series and juggernuat lost so why dont you say it with me,
"the things in the middle of the sunday paper are not marvel comics"
why dont you educate yourself on this topic

Linkalicious
I haven't seen ALL of the people Juggy has fought 1 on 1 because i truly don't follow the guy that much, he's of no interest to me. But i will say that IF JUGGERNAUT HAD HIS OWN COMIC SERIES, he would be beating people instead of getting his butt whipped by the comic book protagonist. But he doesn't have his own series, and he's not affiliated with a protag team like the x-men (maybe recently) otherwise the number of asswhoopings that he dishes out would be far greater. So it may get old...but it's still 100% true. Sh.it I got a comic where Dark Hawk...yes Dark Hawk ends up on an island damn near dead...and Venom ends up losing to him. I'll have to check the collection to give you a number, but it WAS A DARKHAWK comic, hence the reason Venom lost.

Hulkster
Moron...

Hulkster
Damn your good

venomfan
well thanks for the support, but im pretty much done anyhow, VS threads get old real quick

Never
Took your dumbass 12 hours to conjure forth that witty rejoinder, did it? laughing out loud

Hulkster
I realized I had to lower myself down to an imature computer dazed nerd that wears braces and laughs threw his nose with a little hiss for you to understand what you call "wity" I hope that wasn't to advanced for you.... I get to the point unlike you who blabbs on with paragraphs of bulshit and little DANCING BANANNAS.... LMAO

Linkalicious
hey my arguement isn't with u n e more Hulkster...but don't go dissing the nanaz.
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