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As we know both Yoda and Obi-wan when they dies disappeared. However in Episode I, Qui-Gon did not. Will this be answered in Episode III, or not. If anybody has an answer as to why. It would be appreciated.

we will find out, and according to rick mccallum, the reasoning will piss of every fan of the EU

there has already been a thread about this.

i know why. its because qui gon didnt accept his death, because when we see obi wan die, he waited to be killed look at him he is just standing there with his eyes shut not moving, when qui gon got killed unexpectedly they disappear if they accept there deaths and stay there if they dont


i thought thats why

The Ones... that means that it's a KNOWN "trick", look at ANH, it's clear that it is something new

and Darth Jello, he didn't say it would piss off EU fans, he said it would give them a headache
and Pablo, the hyperspace guy, did also say that we will find out

huh.....?

that your theory to why they disappear is wrong

if it's about being ready to die, it shows that disappearing is just a common thing to do for jedi.

But in ANH when OB1 does it, Vader is surprised by it and even goes to check the clothes to see if it's not a visual trick.

Therefor, it is something Vader doesn't know, and since he was a jedi, he knows the "tricks". So it's something new, something that they didn't tell him and quite possibly prophecy related.

Yup sorry Ones, that idea doesn't even approach the truth.

oh it boggles my mind... LET ME OF THIS SITE...

*points to the log-out button*

my theory is that yoda and obi wan were at one with the force when they died. yoda died while telling luke about vader and the other skywalker. obi wan sacrificed himself. plus, they were masters. qui gon was in the heat of battle. he was fighting then was like "dammit...is that a red blade in my chest?" he died suddenly and unexpectedly. as for anakin/vader, he was a jedi KNIGHT not a MASTER according to obi wan in ep.4. obi wan told luke this. i am guessing it is a trick known by experienced jedi masters, not knights or sith lords.
this is my best guess, and i am sticking to it until next year when the movie comes out.....

No, afraid not, suffers from the same problem, RJ.

As has been made clear, it is notrhing to do with how powerful, skilled or prepared you are. Jedi have never done it before. It is a plot point specific to the storyline of the prequel films.

well, gimmee a better theory and convince me then.

the propohecy is my best shot...

they don't know many things about it ... ("You believe it's this ... boy???" )

Anakin is the Chosen One... OB1 trained him, Yoda trained the one that had to redeem him and Anakin ...well, he's the exception cause he's the chosen one.
QGJ only recognised him, he never trained him

its too much...all too much.

the terrible pain

send the pain below.

I hope we will find out.I have no theroies as to why he didn't dissapear.

EXCELLENT

the first option sounds best

I thought that was a little weird... Clearly it's something Jedi had never done before the OT... Or Vader would've known about it

And if it had ANYTHING to do with experience, Qui-Gon would've most certainly been able to do it. If memory serves me right, he was even asked to be on the Jedi Council once or twice...

well. i am betting that a master jedi will do it in ep. 3...if one does, your theory is shot to shit.

GL states on the episode II DVD that no existence beyond death has been previously known by the Jedi.

well, if GL says so, then i guess we have to go with that. he is the man. we will see next year. i am still betting that at least one jedi will do it in part 3, probably mace windu. if you guys disagree with me, fine. think about it like this. GL is being very secretive about what will happen and/or revealed in part 3. this "secret" could be revealed. i said "could" not "will".

Mace Windu may, though that seems unlikely as there is no direct useful reason for him to do so, but the point is that anyone doing it in episode III would be doing it BECAUSE of that plot reason! QGJ is the link.

hmmm, I know someone commented if a jedi will disappear or not... but I forgot the outcome, hang on I'll check

can't find it, sorry

I'll try again

no u idiots. it's bcuz ob1 and yoda bcame 1 with the force and qui-gon just died. obi1 had a clean record, yoda trained practically all the jedi and qui-gon kept defying the council

before calling everyone an idiot you should have thought first before posting this ulitimate piece of crap

if that was even remotely true, it would have been a common trick, it would have happened in the past already
and it is clear it is something NEW cause Vader doesn't know it in ANH, he goes to double check if OB1 died or not

so, ... next time, don't call people names and be sure that you post something based on common sense

I really hope Lucas will clear this up for us in Episode 3 it is strange that Vader does not know what happened to Obi Wan but in ROTJ when he dies Anakin appears as a ghost next to Yoda and Obi Wan.....oh and Gecko bird...your taxi is here

Yes, that Anakin could do it despite not really knowing what it is reinforces the idea that this plot point revolves around Anakin.

Just wondering why everyone is so sure Vader didnt know about this ability? It seems to me that he knew of it because he himself used it. maybe i missed something though ... let me know

Maybe he just forgot.

As he dies in front of Luke he suddenly remembers "Oh man, I SO forgot about this neato trick, oh wow now I can give it a try - here I come - wheeee!" *dies*

OB1 disappears and instead of immediatly rushing over to stop Luke and the others from fleeing, he goes to Ben's clothes and double checks if he really did vanish after THAT he wanted to stop the others, which was too late

so, if it's a common trick, that means Vader who was once a knight would have known how to do it and wouldn't be surprised

Remember Anakin's line in Ep2 about learning how to stop people from dying? Well maybe this life after death as a Jedi Spirit has something to do with it? Just an idea... I know Anakin was having a moment but for some reason I think Lucas really wanted us to remember Anakin saying that.

Far from impossible indeed- but that makes it look somewhat conscious from Anakin, which would be odd.

I thought there must be some significance to that line also, the whole idea about Anakin promising his mother that he'd never let it happen again.

Errr... I repeat what I said.

i think it was just annie feeling the power of the dark side, which he fell briefly over to while slaughtering the tuskens.

Hang on a mo...

When Anakin kills the Tuskans, Yoda hears Qui Gon Shout "Anakin - NO!" does that mean that he was a ghost but just didn't dissapear?

Was that Qui Gon or OB1 who shouted? And how would that bridge the disappearance mystery?

it was qui gon.

the jedi use a new technique. the jedi code forbids flatulence. at the moment of death the jedi release all of their "force fart in one burst, eradicating their mortal frames.

Jello, you've got quite a mind!!

It was Qui Gon's voice in episode 2. Rick even said they recycled Liam's audio. And when Qui Gon says "No," Yoda is surprised. As of the beginning of the clone wars, no Jedi knows how to maintain their "spirit" after death. It is a Sith trick. The Sith have been doing it for thousands of years. They even know how to transfer their spirit in other bodies, as Palpatine does. I guess after the extinction of the jedi, Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin some how learn the trick through something related to Palpatine. A holocron or something.

it's not a sith trick, please read the sticky thread about using EU as a fact

I'm not going to say this is correct, but i have always thought, because i heard it somewhere, that the dissapearing corpse trick was a special technique taught only to certain Jedi...which is why Vader didn't know about it, and why Qui-gon didn't do it...maybe i just made it up when i was little, and have taken it as fact ever since, but that is what i thought it was...

Nope, GL says that QGJ's voice that Yoda heard was the first ever clue that anything beyond death was possible.

I think Anakin kept that promise by doing for Luke what he couldn't do for Shmi. (i.e. saving Luke)

good observation.

what if in order to dissapper you have to make peace with the force before you die.
that is why ob1 stood focusing his mind before darth killed him.
also thats why yoda calmed his mind before he slipped away into the "forever sleep" and only jedi masters are able to focus their mind enough to do it.

as said a million times or even more to others DA:

no.
if that was the truth it would have been common knowledge amonst jedi, padawans, and "normal" people.
It was clearly not, because Vader double checked in ANH if OB1 really was gone.

it's something totally new

but vader never achieved the rank of jedi master. maybe it is known to masters only.

OB1 never became a master either
he's still a jedi knight (but has a padawan)

If the old thinking holds true, then when Anakin becomes a Knight in III then OB1 automaticly becomes a Master.

no, he never becomes a master, that's what they said on sw.c on a JC question

but he was far more experienced than annie.

it cant be that new coz vader knew how to do it...he did it in rotj

you're clearly not awake I think... in ANH he double checked if OB1 was dead, if he knew it, he wouldn't have done it

Maybe Obi-Wan was a nudist. As soon as the saber got closed he zipped away with force-induced speed, leaving his clothes there to confuzzle DV.

Seriously, no. I think the prophecy theory is the best idea so far.

he did not. when he died, luke still saw him.

Actually, it is very likely that Vader did indeed disappear in ROTJ.

he had to of dissappeared......at the end when luke caught up with han and leai and and they were partying on the ewok planet look looked in the sky and he saw the ghosts of yoda obi wan and anakin..well it was suppose to be anakiin but he was like obi wans age

exactly. if vader/anakin, at the end of rotj, is a ghost, along with yoda and obi wan, why didn't he disappear? is it necessary for the viewer to see him disappear in order for him to actually disappear? although, i would like to see this "disappearing act" as a star wars fan, and not to mention it would show some continuity on the part of lucas, but it may not be absolutely necessary. i suppose we will all find out shortly.

madsci
i still have my skywalker bespin fatigue jacket

another thing is how do know if qui gon already doenst know the trick?...we heard him when yoda was meditating but how do we know that he didnt appear as a ghost and said NOOOO to anakin when anakin was killin all the tuskens

Did Vader not dissapear? When he's being burnt, he's got the full uniform on. Is it possible he may have faded away when he was being brought from the Death Star to Endor when Luke was flying the lamb? I dunno.

but Ush, did we see him disappear? no. therefore he did not disappear. you told me last year that it is canon ONLY if the movies show it.

Maybe just because one is a ghost, they didn't have to have disapeared. I know there is a followed pattern like Obi-Wan and Yoda, but maybe something is missing and will be explained in Episode 3, or at least it's supposed to be explained.

SMX

The reason I say very likely as opposed to certain is precisely because we did not see it on screen, although there is good grounds to saying that being as he turned up in ghost form it makes the disappearing canon.

The reason it is very likely is because the official site stated as much when specifically asked the question. This isn't canon but it is a phenomenally good lead and it is the default way to think.

its a good lead, but it wasnt in the movie.

That seemed to be pointless repetition, RJ.

all i am saying is if you and the other mods are gonna enforce rules here, you should follow them yourselves. lead by example. you and i had a similar conversation last year about...what was it? qui gon waiting for obi wan during the darth maul duel, i think. anyway, i wasnt familiar with the whole CANON thing, so you pointed it out for me.
dont get me wrong, you are a cool guy and i like you, but...well, never mind.
how was it pointless repetition? if anything, your response was pointless repetition. you said maybe he disappeared. i said it wasnt in the movie. you said it was a good lead. i agreed, but the fact that it wasnt in the movie makes it an unreliable lead at best. whats the problem?

wow....good one! omg_smilie

No, the repetition was yours. I said it looked very likely that Vader disappeared. When that was queried, I said that the reason it is not certain is precisely because it was not on film. However, every official response from Lucasfilm said he did. If you would trouble yourself to check the canon thread, it is clearly stated that common sense dictates that we need VERY good reason to disbelieve something so officially stated. I did not say it was an undeniable fact. I said it was very likely.

And then you simply repeated some of the information I just gave, as if I had not given it. Pointless repetition.

funnily enough it was mister Hamill himself who asked once "What happend to Vader? Did he disappear?", which made Lucas go and film the burning pile...

Really? Hmm...that kinda makes me lose faith in GL

take it easy on him or he gets a new stroke

well, you bit my head off last year when i said "maybe if this happened" and "maybe if that happened." i told you it was just a guess, or a "theory" and you said this: WELL, IT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY. IF IT IS NOT IN THE FILM, IT IS NOT CANON, THEREFORE IT CANNOT BE DISCUSSED HERE. those were not your exact words, but it was pretty much the message you and finti gave me. I have had a couple of threads moved to the EU section because it was said that the subject was not CANON.
just forget i said anything. from now on, i will just go with the flow. i dont want to become simk68 part 2....

Well said RJ.

SMX

No, not well said at all.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I have always made it clear from the start that the only prohibition is against saying things CERTAINLY happened if not canon, or saying that things maybe happened when they are canonically CONTRADICTED. I never said anything which conveys the message you just stated- that is entirely misleading. Never did I say that only canon stuff could be submitted- that is ridiculous, it would rule out speculation. All that has been said is that only canonical stuff can be seen as undeniable fact. And again, these points are made very clear in the thread on canon, which I again urge people to read before making tiresome, needlessly aggravating and ill-thought out complaints like these. Official sources talking of the film's plot must be given good reason to be reasonably denied, even if not canon. Any guess or theory of yours was not even remotely official, and had no business being stated as anything even approaching fact or contradicting what is on-screen, and if you think I criticised it for neither of those I would be interested in seeing proof of that. When just about everyone important at Lucasfilm, and the official site itself, says Vader disappearred, then I have EVERY right saying that this is very likely, and unless you can canonically contradict it, no-one has any real call disputing that likelihood. So anyone who has the idea I am not playing by my own rules or applying a double standard is entirely mistaken.

Please do keep informed of clearly posted rules in future, and please do the courtesy of not mis-quoting me or mis-reading what I say, and please now return this thread to topic.

Fact is, Lucasfilm says Vader disappeared, and so that is very likely to be the truth of things. So we can either carry on this discussion from there, and bear in mind that any theory involving Vader not disappearing has to be seen as far less likely in light of that, or the point about legitimacy of sources can continue to be argued in which case I will have to close, as such rules are clearly posted already and debating them is not the point of the thread.

Incidentally, Pablo Hidalgo reported that George Lucas has also personally confirmed this.

people strayed offtopic here I see
sounds more and more otf with the bickering... only now I'm not involved in it

With that post, you now are

yeah, but I always love a good fight

Ok Ush, I'm tired of our pointless arguments about everything. Truce?

SMX

thanx for proving my point.

hello everybody.
Its my first post here, so plz be gentle lol.
My post is a little off topic from the original question, but it does have some important relevance to the ghost errr POWER of the force.

In ANH Obi says,
"If you kill me now I will come back MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE" to me this is a bold statement for Obi to make to Vader (the most powerful of all the Jedi) but answers the question that Vader didn't now about this new disappearing act since he probably would have told Obi to STFU & take it like a man, but, also raises the question
So what new sh!t can you do dead-obi ?.
In ESB lukes about to rush off to bespin when ghost-obi says
"If you face Vader now, I cannot interfere" errr WHY-NOT & WHAT can ghost-obi do to interfere usually?

all misquotes, typos & grammar errors are entirely my own lazy-ass fault

this will draw a lot of different opinions.

didn't Palps says this to anakin in AOTC ?

he tried to do some seriously sucking up to him

if he said "dude, you suck balls. how the hell did you ever become a jedi???"
would anakin have said yes to him when he asked to join the dark side?

well, thats just like, his opinion, man.....

Exactly. lol What Palpy told Anakin in AOTC was some foreshadowing of what Palpy plans to do. He's trying to get Anakin on his side, to like him and be a strong supporter of him so when the great day of betrayel arrives, Anakin will fall to Sidious and the dark side.

SMX

it gets showed also with Anakin saying "The chancelor doesn't appear to be corrupt"
with OB1 proving him wrong

how else can you convince Anakin? saying
"hey, sign up for the dark side and you get your own private super star destroyer later on after wooping some jedi ass"?

opinion or fore-sight?
remember Palps said he was going to pay special attention to Anakins career in TPM.

Hmm...fore-sight would be my guess.

SMX

I think that it's too early in TPM to say it's fore-sight, but than again, the jedi already know he has a huge midichlorian count and he blew up a droidcontrol ship, has to mean something

he aslo cant interfere because its lukes destiny to challenge vader....he can guide luke towards that destiny like tellin him to go to odegabah and train with yoda

I can't believe how badly you people spell

I suggest you take a map... think you'll be shocked to find out that there are OTHER countries besides the USA and the UK

ah spele reel goud.

Save it, Mike. I'm all over the bad spelling on this site.




corn

I think you will find that UK people know how to read maps. The benefit of never being more than 20 miles from our borders no matter what direction you go in LOL

ah, y'know I just included them cause they speak some sort of english too

Could just be typos too...my keyboard used to stick ALL the time...

that's what good waffles do

Good waffles??

sticking together

Topic, folks...

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Anakin / Vader didn't know or perform the dissappearing trick. Luke dragged him back to his ship after removing his helmet and then burned him on a funeral pyre.

OB1 and Yoda are the only ones to dissappear once dead.

but anakin did become a ghost, whether he disappeared at the time of being cremated or not, he did join the hollow jedi clan

Oh yeah, I know. I wasn't disputing that. It was the 'dissappearing on death' trick I was referring to.

The only common thing that all 3 have is that their death was of their own choosing. QGJ died in the heat of battle and definitley didn't decide to go that way.

I'm sure the answer is stupidly easy and we'll all kick ourselves when we see Episode III.

Well, we just went through all that, Puppet. Whilst it is not canon, just about everyone associated with the thing, including many official responses (including answering this specific question on the website), have said that Vader did indeed disappear when he died.

How QGJ died has nothing to do with it.

Yup just read all the old posts. By the way what's canon?

yoda learn of this in ep3 i think it's somthing he reads i cant remember clearly.


but yoda and ob1 will learn to disapear and in ep4 when vader slices ob1 he disapears.


anakin will not know it.

"The works of a writer that have been accepted as authentic"

for star wars that's : ONLY the movies as full canon and the novels and radio dramas as semi

Do you guys not think that it might have todo with the jedi's midichlorian count?

I read in this forum that Darth Vader never became a MASTER?

In EP4 Darth tell's OB1 before killing him that - 'Now i am the Master'
Does that not mean that he is a master and not a knight?

hmmmmmmmmm am not sure

Anakin will achieve the rank of Knight, but will never become master, it will be shown in Ep III

and no DK, that means it's a common trick

vader is a master but really considered the dark lord.


obiwan says only a master of evil.

And just what exactly is a "master"?

Will we find out why Qui-Gon Didn't Disappear? - Same reason as why the other dead jedi's at geonosis did not dissapear? Because it never happend before - It's something new.

finally someone got it

I heard that QGJ is suppose to be EP III - I'm not so sure about that. Will have to see.

his voice, tops I think

argh......still no answer to my query. They say that Anakin never becomes a Jedi Master. Just what exactly is the definition of a Jedi Master? anyone...anyone?

Ive always thought a Jedi Master is one who has his apprentice become a Jedi Knight. But the thing is..they called OB1 master Kenobi in Ep2 before Anakin become a Jedi Knight. So im not really sure.

up to this point, we don't know how you achieve the rank of master yet... well, not 100%

I found this on shampoopoo.com 's forums. It appears to be posted by someone who is close to Lucas.

There is a scene that talks about the whole blue ghost thing, and why Qui-Gon doesn't have one. It'll be explained some what. I'm not sure you'll be happy with the answer though.

As for Hyden in ROTJ... we can't figure that one out. I'm going to ask George about it. I'm sure he'll have some bullshit answer, and won't really care that we don't like the idea.

I guess this should answer the question.


corn

thats the kind of SS.com BS

i think when ones completes padawan training, they become a knight. when they take on a padawan, they become a master.

but OB1 never became a master

really? I thought it was Vader that never became a master?

Well in Episode 3, Obi-Wan is supposed to be a Jedi Master I believe.

SMX

no, still a knight if I remember correctly

I thought it was Anakin who becomes the Knight, and now Obi-Wan a Master?? Oh well, nothing worth getting to worried about.

SMX

nope, Anakin is a knight, but complains that he wants to be a master

Oh ok. Well thanks for clearing that up then.

SMX

anakin a knight and still complaining!!!!this kid is never happy

he feels he should be a master

"when I left you I was but the learner, now I AM the master!!"

Its all coming together :P

that annoying little brat!

Yeah and in Episode 2, Anakin believes he is ahead of Obi-Wan.

SMX

possibly OB1's senses are more attuned

I think it was just Lucas killing off a loved character in ANH to make the story more emotional and then keep him as a central character for the next 2 films. I don't think he was even thinking of it at the time and when he did the TPM well the only reason I can tell you is because Liam Neeson didn't sign up to do any of the sequels. So instead of using a new actor that would destroy the character he decided not to make him a ghost in AOTC and ROTS.

But as for Yoda and Obi-Wan, saying they became spirits because their bodies disappeared doesn't go with the facts. Remember Anakin too appeared next to Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end of ROTJ and his body did not disappear either, just like Qui-Gon Luke burned his fathers body.

It's just movie mistakes, it's bound to happen when you make prequels 20 years later... All the information that was setup for the original films has to be found and used and played to work with the old films, however there are many inconsistencies that don't make sense from TPM and AOTC that don't or won't ever add up because he changed something in the plot than made it go in a new direction.

My biggest complaint is with the whole droid debacle. Okay so the droids memory banks are wiped. I can believe that. But why doesn't Anakin remember C-3PO and that he made him, his best friend or why doesn't Obi-Wan remember R2-D2? I mean come on, how many times has Obi-Wan and R2 crossed paths in TPM and AOTC, yet in ANH he says, strange I never remember owning a droid...

It's just one more thing Lucas screwed up on, over 20 years ago... lol

Official word still is that Anakin's body did disappear, hence the empty suit being burned.

Obi-Wan never did own a driod, and Anakin doesn't care about C3-P0. That kind of thing is looking far too hard for error.

But he's trying...

actually yerssot, obi wan is a master in episode 3. in fact after him and anakin save palpatine he is given a position on the jedi council, which adds to anakin's jealousy.

He is? Where'd you get that info?

That is indeed apparently true, to be fair on yerssot, he said that before Lucasfilm revealed it.

But yes indeed, queeq, it seems that Lucasfilm are saying Kenobi is a Mastered-up Council member in III.

So they say....

As ever, nothing is certain beyond certain until we see it but that is the heavy vibe.

will mace windu dissapear do you think in ep 3