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The Master Of Masters against The Master Assasin.
My bet is on Shiva.
http://www.geocities.com/area51/shadowlands/4733/Shivapage_graphics/shiva_nightwing.jpg

From what I know, Elektra wins this because I think she is a killer pure and simple and can kill in many(inlcuding non fancy martial arts ) ways.Lady Shiva is technically the better martial artist. But to further my point about Eastern Martial arts not always being the best way; imagine a Green Beret soldier angainst the worlds foremost martial artist, the soldier would stick his fingers in the other guys eyes then walk away. Lady Shiva is second to none in technical skill, but something more is required.For the same reason I think Bullseye or the Punisher could kill them both!

You say this as a fact; personally, I doubt that it is true. It seems to me that a more likely scenario might be, the soldier would try to stick his fingers in the other guys eyes and get his wrist broken for his efforts.

assuming he isn't fast enough you mean, which he would be. But I get your point.What I'm saying isn't fact but my opinion.I said not always(not never) and in this case, Elektra knows enough martial arts to go at it with Shiva IMO and has more Killer instinct. What you're saying is not at all a more likely scenario.You say this as a fact. I could be thinking that a soldier is a more efficient killer and therefore assuming that means he'd defeat a martial artist for that reason(which WOULD be wrong of me to assume) but when martial artists fight for real they rarely end up looking like the rehearsed choreographers you see in the Matrix! Real fighting rarely favours the more graceful and fanciest but the most functional and most efficient. I gotta be honest though, the more I think about it, the more I'm now favouring Shiva. but I stick with my Soldier V 'Jet Li' assumption. You can't sit on the fence all the time!

No, I said "It seems to me." That is, "My perception is." But even if you're right, Lady Shiva is a professional killer. I'm sure she's used to fighting non-martial artists.

yeah, thats what I remembered when starting to favour Shiva. thus I have no argument becasue I agree.

just read up on Shiva whom I know less about and was wrong in my first post. She too is a mercenary and would be a good match for Elektra IMO. I'm sure someone posted that Elektra has beat Shiva in a crossover before

You both make a very good point about practical killing/maiming skills compared to martial arts knowledge. Personally, I would say Elektra is better on both counts. From what I saw of Shiva, her fighting expertise was no-where near as good as Elektra's.

Plus, Shiva was originally just a burgler and a sneak-thief. She didn't move to killing until much later. Elektra has been a professional assasin for much longer.

So I'd definately say Elektra.

Might want to get your vision checked

Shiva wins, more often than not. She edges Elektra, but barely.

And I am a hardcore Elektra fan.

And...Elektra has been a professional assassin for how long...? They never fought in a crossover to my knowledge.

Well I didnt see someone post that they fought in crossover in that case coz I thought it was you never. No that's it!when you put your martial arts ratings down, you put Elektra higher than shiva.that right?

No sir, on a scale of 1-10 I had Shiva a 10; Elektra, a 9.25.

This was the original scale (1-10):

Daredevil: 8.5
Elektra: 9.25
Bullseye: 9.5
Stick: 10
Stone: 9.5
Iron Fist: 9
Batman: 8
Karate Kid: 15
Shang Chi: 10
Batgirl: 9.95

Never: Watch the episode again. At the start, Shiva loses to Batgirl, later on, Huntress beats her and finally Barbara Gordon (in a wheelchair) beats her.

Are you sure she wins "more often than not?"

I don't know the other girl but I say Elektra!!!

"Watch" the episode? As in...cartoon? I hope that is not what you mean.

In the comic book, Batgirl and Shiva went at it. Batgirl took that one...but you saw what happened to Batgirl, correct? That is why those who participated in that thread on the other messageboard rated Batgirl as a 9.95. They are damn near even.

Catgirl knocked Shiva out. But she snuck her.

In my opinion, Shiva would probably pull 5.5 "rounds" to 4.5 for Elektra in a 10 "round" battle.

Elektra is my favorite female character ever, but if you are familiar with Lady Shiva at ALL as a martial artist, you know she is the best in the DC Universe.

That is pretty damn impressive. Elektra is not the best in the MU, but she is up at the very top.

Huntress is not even on Shiva's level in h2h. That's laughable.

DarkCrawler: Yes I was refering to 'Birds of Prey'. That is where I first heard about Shiva.

Never: 'Birds of Prey' was a live-action show that was cancelled. DarkCrawler knows what I mean. If you are unable to watch it, you should be able to find the scripts on-line. If you watch or read the script for 'Lady Shiva', you'll see that Shiva was indeed bested by Huntress. I'm not making that up; read the script for yourself.

I think we all believe you; the point is that Birds of Prey is not an accurate depiction of their relative skill; Lady Shiva would wipe the ground with Huntress.

Out of curiousity, where does the Champion of the Universe fall in that scale. Isn't he considered the best martial artist in the Marvel Universe?

And how is Karate Kid rated at 15, you'd think Stick, Batgirl, or Stone would kill Howdy-Doody.

Well said.



He does not reside on earth, hence his not being included.

How is Karate Kid rated a 15? Hmm.

Val's training in the martial arts has allowed him to:

1) Increase the effect of his attacks to the point that physical blows can shatter high-tech 30th century metals (Legion of Superheroes #103), knock incredibly dense and heavy superhumans straight up into the air (Legion Worlds #5), affect beings in powered armor (Legionnaires #26) and when combined with other techniques, harm beings of incredible durability (Legionnaires Annual #2, Legion of Superheroes #103, Legion Worlds #5).

2) Be able to sense weak points in all things, from the weakest and most vulnerable points in force fields (Legionnaires #22), super-advanced 30th century metals, even on a microscopic level (Legion of Superheroes #125), as well as being able to instincitvely detect the most vulnerable points in living beings, such as pressure points and nerve clusters, even if he's never seen that species of alien before (Legion of Superheroes Secret Files #2, Legion Worlds #5). Using this abilitiy, it's even possible to destroy entire starships (Titans/Legion of Superheroes: Universe a Blaze #4).

3) Enhanced durability that can withstand great punishment, including allowing him to survive one or two lethal attacks from people strong enough to damage nearly indestructible metals (Legion Worlds #5) to not being harmed after having several tons of metal dropped on top of him (Legionnaires #39).

4) An enhanced awareness of his surroundings, from being able to tell that an opponent is wearing in total darkness without making contact with said being (Legionnaires #39), to being able to detect an avoid a heat vision blast that tore through the ship he was in before the ship's sensors detected the attack (Legion of Superheroes #111), to being able to detect a stealthy super-assassin from over a kilometer away by hearing her heart-beat (Legion of Superheroes #121), to being able to detect an alien teleporting silently behind him and invisible opponents (The Legion #22), being able to be aware of multiple projectiles coming at him from different directions, even when blindfolded (Legion of Superheroes #111).

5) Enhanced dodging skills that allows him to avoid energy attacks, even ones that arc along the entire floor (Legion of Superheroes #83), fired rapidly by a being with superspeed (Legion of Superheroes #111), and rapid burst fire from a powerful lazer cannon (Legion Worlds #5).

6) Enhanced reflexes, skill and cordination that allow him to redirect in mid-flight arrows and beings that are moving at speeds in excess of escape velocity, in addition to redirecting the attacks of superhumanly powerful opponents, no matter their strength or weight (Legion of Superheroes #111). These also allow him to spar successfully with being using superspeed (Titans/Legion of Superheroes: Universe a Blaze #2-3).

7) A knowledge of esoteric bio-manipulation philosophies that allow him to inflict incredible pain on a species he has just met with a light tap, as well as heal and revive hurt and unconcious allies ( Legion of Superheroes Secret Files #2). This also grants him a body-language reading ability that allows him to tell if someone is under outside control based solely on how they move (Legion of Superheroes #111).

8) A general increase in overal combat ability that allows him to take on a small army of the most dangerous criminals in the galaxy (Legionnaires #22), a large group of superhuman were-creatures (Legion of Superheroes Secret Files #2), and defeat the greatest assassin in the galaxy with one attack ( Legion of Superheroes #121), opponents in power-armor (Legionnaires #26), a super-strong gorrila and a trio of guards, all with the equivalent of one move a piece (Legion of Superheroes #103), three mind-linked highly trained martial artists, a hyper-strong superhuman, a shape shifter and a teleporter (The Legion #22), and superhumanly strong and durable opponents, including Daxamites (beings that are stronger and just as durable as Superman) (Legionnaires Annual #2, Legion of Superheroes #111, Titans/Legion of Superheroes: Universe a Blaze #2-3, Legion Worlds #5).

That's how. Post-crisis, he is a 12 or so.

ah, that was it.I was actually looking through all the threads but alas did not find it. Dunno why I thought the otherway round.

would you guys post please a Lady Shiva pic?

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/hyperion2000/UniversDC/LadyShiva.JPG

http://www.unstable.com/whoswho/images/ladysh37.jpg

I thik lady shiva has a very larg chanc at defeating electra in a battel. I see her defeating electra more than I see electra defeating lady shiva.

any woman with a sai deserves my respect and admiration.

thanx Never, wherever you are

Here's a few Lady Shiva bios if that'll help any:

http://www.unstable.com/whoswho/ladyshiva.htm

http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/RapSheetMain/Character.asp?UniqueId=100

http://www.dccomics.com/secret_files/dc_character.html?sc_dc_itemCode=ladyshiva

People grow and their skills develop, during their rematch, Elektra beat and severly traumatized bullseye. Both she and DD are currently on top of all but shang chi,and the heads of the Hand and Chaste in terms of Martial arts skills. she takes this one.

I like Never's rankings

shiva, definitely.

Shiva!

elektra

Loses.

wins....just as skilled, telepath, faster, stronger ect.

Shiva has faced worse. Even killing stronger opponents as in world masters.

so has elektra...........

shiva however has not face an opponet with all the attributes that elektra posses.

Agree to disagree. I see Shiva more skilled.

Originally posted by cloud102
Agree to disagree. I see Shiva more skilled.
cool with me.

I don't due to the fact elektra has defeated and down rigth embaressed top tier h2h fighters before

Elektra will win methinks. Shiva is more skilled in my opinion. She has on panel stated she learns something like 12 new arts a year and has demonstrated a ridiculous knowledge of nerve strikes/deathmoves over the years. Prometheus also stated she was the third best H2H combatant in all of DC.

However Elektra is also highly skilled and is also a top tier. She has demonstrated better speed feats and better durability. She is physically better with a really good level of skill and that is why she wins.It will be a tough fight though.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
cool with me.

I don't due to the fact elektra has defeated and down rigth embaressed top tier h2h fighters before

Hasn't Shiva embarrassed Batman? And she has been killing Grand Masters, so she can be the only one.

Elektra no question. I mean come on this girl came back from the dead

Shiva is death!

Originally posted by cloud102
Shiva is death!

and Elektra conquered death. So what is your point?

It was a joke, but this isn't a fight to the death. A simple KO would suffice.

Originally posted by cloud102
It was a joke, but this isn't a fight to the death. A simple KO would suffice.

yea I know. I was just playing. In all honesty if these two ever fought it would be so cool and probably a toss up. However, I would lean towards Elektra though b/c she is more popular.

Yeah, I can see a toss up. Both have taken down A list fighters in their universe, both are extremely fast, and both are extremely HOT!

Lady Shiva.

Good fight.

Really good fight. Shiva's dialogue pwns Elektra.

elektra ftw.. her killer instinct sais and telepathy should help her win here. she really doesnt fool around she goes right in for the kill.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=502532&pagenumber=1

Elektra wins.

Still Shiva.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=502532&pagenumber=1

Elektra wins. Good thread i think her skill is near Shiva
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t502245.html

Yeah, Shiva practically owned Shadowdragon, someone who can fool and even move faster than Superman. Shiva did not care.

Originally posted by cloud102
Yeah, Shiva practically owned Shadowdragon, someone who can fool and even move faster than Superman. Shiva did not care. She never does

Elektra beat Wolverine noobs

meh so did Shi. Wolverine can be all over the place. One moment he's going toe to toe with Hulk or team bashers, the next he can't take Elektra.

Elektra is just that good.

Who is Shi?

Shishio from Rurouni Kenshin?

Elektra IS good. If someone is more skilled than Wolverine and exploits that, they'd take him. Just like Iron Fist and Sabretooth.

This Shi. I believe when they teamed up, she kicked his ass. He got up later, of course, but it was convincing.

http://www.crusadefinearts.com/images/comics/shi/shikaidon.jpg

Shishio would beat her, so would Kenshin, why did you even bring her up?

Cause she took it to Wolverine too.

Wolverine isn't in this fight.

This is Shishio vs. kenshin

Stay on topic

Make me.........whore!

That's what...he said

Shiva.

Elektra can throw a sai so fast she can rip somebodies hand off.

Still Elektra, IMO.

Split.

Elektra. Slightly better in every way with the added benefit of telepathy. She takes it soundly.

add in her inconsistent magical abilities and Elektra all the way.

subtract them and Shiva FTW