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Wolverine has always had trouble with surgons. I think Doc Ock may be one of the toughest wtih those 8 adamantium legs he is connected to metaphysiclly. He could grab Wolverine and make minced meat out of him.

but then wolverine would heal himself and make mince meat out of Doc Ock. if wolvie didn't have a healing factor this one would go to the man with 8 arms but he does so..... wolverine

Difficult one. Dock Ock once beat up the Hulk, and that's saying a lot. He can definitely hurt Wolverine big time !

But he's not the greatest fighter ever, and acts overconfident sometimes. I can see Dock Ock win, but not when he makes a mistake, even a little one. But if he's smart, he'll use his extra arms to beat up Logan from a distance.

So Dock Ock might win, but I'm not sure. When Wolvie gets real angry, anything can happen.

Doc Ock

doc ock is octupus?

you mean Doctor Octopus? yeah he also goes by Doc Ock

ok thanks.

i vote on wolverine, i think he can do it, cuting all the mechanical arms and in the end cutting is head off.

Doc ock beat the hulk?????? HOW???

i dunno his arms are adamantium

probably threw brains, and I dont belive Wolverine could cut Doc's tenticels they are not adamantium to my best knowledge but they are stong enuf that above human strength cant beak or cut them.

Wolvie would have to aim at just getting Doc quick, my theory is how well does Wolverine fair against Omega Red? now add two more tenticels

Doc Ock's arms are indeed adamantium-based (now; used to be titanium or some other metal), so nothing Wolverine could do can damage them. His best option is to get in close. If he cannot get in close Doc Ock would destroy him. Do recall just how strong those arms are.

I only remember two Omega Red vs. Wolverine battles. First battle Omega Red beat his ass and knocked him out. Second battle was a stalemate after 18 hours or so.

ah titanium I thought it was somthing like that, but now there adamantium based? Wolverine win or lose is gonna be very VERY sore.

lol I cant belive i found this heres some info if it matters to this fight

http://www.spiderfan.org/characters/images/doctor_octopus1/arms_diagram.jpg

I think wolverine would take the win his fighting skill would be the upset

Yes. He has two (or more) sets. He knocked out Hulk with the adamantium arms.

dam he nocked out hulk that pritty nice

I don't think this would be a close fight, Doc Ock could keep Wolverine at a distance until he knocks him out. His healing factor might keep him in the fight for a little bit, but after getting beat around for a while he'd be screwed.

And Doc Ock knocked out the Hulk in either the Return of the Sinister Six or the Revenge of the Sinister Six. That fight wasn't even close, the Hulk got wrecked. He was able to keep him at bay, so I think he'll be able to do the same to Wolverine.

Doc Ock only has four admantium legs. Yes, he whipped the Hulk pretty bad before, but the Hulk beat him in about four panels as Mr. Fixit in a Vegas casino also. I guess it depends on the writier.

I'd give the nod to Doc Ock over Wolverine. Wolverines fast, but I dont think he's as fast as Spiderman. If the legs could be cut or damaged, i'd easily go with Wolverine.

yeah but wolvie cant cut em, he either uses adamantium based or titanium. and tho adamantium is more durable than titanium, Wolverine isnt strong enuf to cut it. and if he were then Ock could throw on the Adamantium based set

Wolverine is heading to the intensive care unit if he messed with Ock.

Red Omega im pretty sure can beat Doc Ock.
And Wolverine would beat Red Omega.
So it'll be a close match, but Id go with Wolverine.

Finally a fair Wolverine vs. whoever thread. Let me first say that this would be a very good close fight. Wolverine definitly shines with his healing ability, quickness, and agility. Where as Doc Oct also posses adamantium arms, 4 in total, plenty to keep Wolverine busy by fighting him at range and tagging him repeatdly. Hard to say who will win this, I'am thinking that Wolverine may get worn down after fighting 4 adamantium grapplers for a few hours, he's bound to slip up. Even further, Doc Oct could be scaling walls, throws vehicles like we all see in the new Spiderman trailors. Look If he was bad azz enough to knock out the Hulk. Thats amazing! My mind is now made up, Doc oct wins this fight all the way!

i think your forgetting somthing, wolverines adamantium claws would tear through doc ocks tenticales. The only type of metal adamantium can't destroy is adamantium or metals from other worlds, or metals enhanced by the emkraan crystal. Wolverines beserker barrage would leave doc ock as a fleeting memory. It would make spiderman look like a pussy due to the swiftness that woverine would dispose of doc ock

Er um Doc Ock's tentacles are made of adamantium...so Wolverine's claws can not cut through them. Doc Ock could very likely grab Wolverine and bludgeon him into unconsciousness from a safe distance. Wolverine does NOT win without getting in close, and with four arms flailing about, I really do not see him dodging them to get in close. As someone else pointed out, if they are in a city environment, Doc Ock could pull down the side of a building, grab a dumpster, grab a car, grab a lightpost - anything and smack Wolverine.

Not trying to be mean or anything, but did you bother to read any of this thread? It was made pretty clear earlier in this thread that Wolverine cannot cut Doc Ocks admantium arms.

I think Doc Ock who i didnt'' know was a.k.a. octupus would rip Wolverine up with his clippers on the end of his arms all while he is smashing him into anything within reach. He would peal the flesh from his body and tear the organs form their cavities.
One prob., Wolverine forgetting gives him the perfect conscience. Nevermind about why, he's gonna settle it if it takes a lifetime.
Anyhow that said, Wolverines bones are intermeshed and bonded to the adamantium so that to destroy them you must destroy the adamantium.
Therefore any amount of bodydamage would only leave The Wolverine in wait untill his bones started to heal a new set of organs and skin.
In a one on one slug fest Ock would win, but Wolverine would ace him in an ally, the following weekend.
Venomfan you rock. A schmatic, huh.

wolverine all the way

Yup had to do a little bit O' diggin to find that

Maelstrom....if ock ripped out wolvie's heart...he would die....end of story

bruce lee kicks there @$$es both

Ock wins. Wolvie's fighting skills don't mean squat if he can't get close enough to use them. And for some small reason I doubt the good doctor is going to suggest a fist fight with Logan

So you think that a man can survive basicly having no bones but if he loses an organ its history. I think the procdure that was done to him not only didn't hit the limit of wolverines healing ability, i'll conjecture that as long as a cell is alive of wolverines body, his healing factor will begin not to regenerate but to heal himself new parts over those beautifull bones. Remember its comics where these guys have superpowers. You can't just kill the guy you have to kill his power too. The diff. between regeneration and healing is subtle but important. A healer is not reliant on organs or conditions. It works in invigorating ways to strengthen what is there.
Regeneration, like deadpool is awesome because it replaces existing parts.

Dock Ock would invent a time machine and kill Sarah Conner, preventing Wolverine from ever being born.

>.>

<.<

*runs, and trips on rock*

wrong! WRONG! WRONNNNNGGGGGG! If wolverines organs are torn out of his body, they regenerate! And Deadpools Regernation no longer can do that, it was taken out! Ask assasin! Wolverin,e however, can regenerate all of his body, if his head and upperbody are in tact! Even if your tore out his heart, it would regenerate! Deadpool, doesnt have that factor anymore, he cant regenerate lost organs or lost limbs!
But... all that doesnt change the fact that doc ock would kick wolvs ass... If wolverine got hit by a car in his neck, hes dead.
Wolverine isnt much of a match for those 4 huge arms, three would restain him, one would kill him.

WRONG!!!! Wolvie's heart would NOT regenerate. He'd die if you got past his adamantium chest and got to that heart. His limbs wouldn't regenerate. In fact, it would suck ass for Wolvie because he'd lose the adamantium in his skin too.

LMAO, Shaggy Man regenerates as his cellular tissue is salamander based. Wolverine does NOT regenerate limbs, and will DIE if he loses a sufficient amount of flesh, muscle and tissue. Why on earth do you think Phoenix had to save him in New X-Men #150?

i love when he sites specific examples!!!

just to tell u wolverien can regenrate limbs if u read uncanny x-men when they go to hell the devil who is nigth crawler fasher says he will heal his arm back in matter of minuts so put metal over it so it wont heal. also I might add never when u stated electra beat wolverine well u should also tell thata wolverine was feral he had no memorie and she was trying to bring the man back so wolverine wasent even a man he was fighting as a beast not with fighting skill so that prove nuthign about wolverine fighting skill and I own the fight so please use other stuff to prove pionts because electra dident beat the true wolverine she beat the beast. so NEVER us other facts other then that please because u always seem to use it.

what the hell are you talking about?

They go to hell? The devil is Night Crawler's father? What limb of Wolvie's got cut off and regenerated?

Damn you are a fool aren't you?

his arm did not get cut off first off second the devil is night crawler father if u read uncanny x-men ever month u would know that also the devil stated wolverine can grow back his limbs in matter of minuts so cover them with metal when u cut them off wich of coarse they never got a chance to do. any ways I nto a fool also i think wolverine would take thsi fight because he a far better fighter then doc. oh if u read venom on the run he was incencrated but only his bones were left because there industructable and he was back on his feet in like minut or so

super nova is right infact saber tooth had wolverien claws go throu his head and ripped his brain in haft and it heal right abck and he lived

Well actually Wolverine can die here read this:
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/w/wolverine.htm

dude that not a even a offical site and that was wolverine right when he came out lol. dident u hear what I wrote he got incecrated that site like from 1982 lol he been hit with a nuke and got back up he been machine gun and laughed it off I sorry thats site should not ever bee used for prove. also he been hit in the head with a shot gun from piont blank range I don't feel I ahve to go on.

I like to add braking wolverine neck wont kill him lol

Uncanny X-Men Annual #11. "This Claremont-penned tale was infamous for showing what Wolverine's healing factor can do-regenerate from a drop of blood!"

not my words, note the quotation marks.

that dude thought Wolverine could regenerate from a drop of blood?

good god what a putz

wait.... Chris Claremont is a putz?

well it a quote from a derrect comic book that the wrighter of marvel amde lol the guy can't be a putz

made

Christ Wolverine8888, correcting you is like having bad sex over and over and over again...

One, Wolverine was NOT feral in Elektra vs. Wolverine. Period.

Two, Nightcrawler's father is NOT Belasco. Period.

Three, Wolverine canNOT regenerate limbs. Period.

Four, Wolverine canNOT recover from a drop of blood. To hell what Claremont wrote in the Annuals (which are more often than not OUT of continuity).

ok first off if u read unccany x-men u would know that night crawler dad is the devil. second Bever she did fight wolverien was he was feral I dont know what the hell u read but the only time she ever fougth him was when he was feral and trying to come back and she was tryign to bring the real wolverien out and amke him man again. never u just blatenly state shit she faught wolverine during a onslaught comic that it. NER JUST ADMET IT ELCTRA NEVER EBAT THE REAL WOLVERIEN JUST THE FERAL ONE SHOW ME SOME PROVE SHE FOUGHT HIM NON FERAL. she deffently only fought him to get abck his memorie in teh onslaught sagan in fact she sorta trained him to get him abck to normal because her master had instructed her too

NEVER TRY READING UNCANNY X-MEN REALY IF U DID U WOULD KNOW WOLVERIEN EHALIGN POWERS ABILITIES BUT U DONT SO U WOULDENT

Never, would you consider making this your avatar? this is not meant as an insult. He is my favorite Simpsons character of all time, and you remind me of him. im sure some others would agree. http://cbg.nohomers.net/images/cbgcomputer.gif

lol I agree

comic book guy owns!

anyhow I know writers should be the most beliveable sources but somtimes they can be a tad biased.

Wolverine regenerating from a blood drop? Id say hes a putz.

that is like Todd Mcfarelane saying Venom can fire projectile webbing from his ass. Id say Todd is a putz as well if he said that.

tho Im not being to derogatory, the guy may know his stuff. putz to me isnt a serious insult if I were actually seriously questioning this guy Id use much stronger words.

Simpleton...have you even SEEN this comic book?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0785109110.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Wolverine was NEVER feral EVER in this comic book. Do you see the MIDDLE IMAGE? That is where she STABBED HIM THROUGH HIS CHEST. Dumbass.

Onslaught was NEVER in this comic book. Dumbass. By the way, I NEVER "just state shit" - you have patented that technique, sir. I back my comments up.

I have read Uncanny off and on since Uncanny #164 - you cannot POSSIBLY be talking to me. Wait...have I called you a dumbass yet?

Arachnoid, I hope you do not consider my ignoring your attempt at humor as an insult.

i wasnt really going for humor... but ok. the comic book guy is not for everyone. if you dont want the avatar, ill use it later.

lol never u dont seem realy like u read uncanny x-men then u would know the devil is night crawler father. also I enevr even seen them comic u posted there it look stupid I would not take it serous just liek teh 6 hours fight wolverien vs hulk they look so stupid that they shouldent bee taken serous. and yes in onslaught saga wolverien and elctra fought as him in feral form I own the comic. u got to be joking that look liek the stupidest comic ever u should take comic that look that dumb serous i woldent in the wolverine when he fought electra feral he almsot beat her and he was feral lol but they stop fighting but she explain if he was the real wolverine be much diffrent fight. and stabbing wolverine wouldent stop him lol why even take that comic serous it a joke

yes I spelled a shit load of stuff wrong I clearly dident care u can figure otu what it says

But wait, DUMBASS - did you not just tell me, quote:



Are those NOT your words, Wolverine? LoL, now you have the comic book I posted but you FORGOT they fought in there?

Or you got caught out there with your foot in your mouth AGAIN and are trying to cover your ass?

Didn't you also tell me that Dark Phoenix never killed Wolverine in "What If Phoenix Lived?"

You must practice reaaally hard to be this clueless and annoying.

I do like Never that u backed it up but still what u backed it up with is'nt some thing worth abcking shit up with

thought I thought u ment a real comic not the what if lol that tiem but any ways they did fight with him in feral form no i dotn read comic that look retarded and take hem serous that just stupid like i said comic like that are retarded and shouldent be takens erous like the 6 hour fight. also stabbign wolverien stops him come on u have to be kidden i seen him have like 4 sword in him serouly dont take comic like that as prove

hmmm Wolverine looks perfectly fine but is absolutley screwed.

yup collapsed lung will put him down, broken trachia, I bet lots of internall injuries will put him down like a rock.

LoL, "it doesn't count" because I proved your dumbass wrong yet AGAIN.

Nightcrawler's father is not the damn devil. Shut up.

ok how does that pic haave any thing to do with any thing and that not the 6 hour fight there some like ****ing drug lord kid in it and the drawing are ****ed. in the six hour fight he is'nt wearing his suit. ok i sorry but lung wont put him down i seen sword throu his neck and chest and he just heals right away. getting shot every wear on his body and being hit with a nuke dident stop him from getting back up. oh also oen tiem after not having his matal in him any mroe eh got nail bye a car and broke every bone in his body and it healed right up and he was fine

night crawler dad is dam it read uncanny x-men and u would know and he also has 2 brothers. that doesent prove I am dumb ur using a comic that looks like some one on druggs amde to prove a piont.

LMAO wtf?

ok if you realized that fight was NOT from the "6 hour" crossover.

why did you bring it up? that was a completley differnt encounter that as you can see had the same outcome.

and again DONT bring up that stupid nuke theory. hello I own the Venom:Run series and Im saying how INSANLEY far fecthed it was. lol
Marvel tsunami project is friggin anime on heroin.

I can find more pics of Wolverine from all sorts of comics being portrayed realisticlly.

even if u dont use that wolverien still ahad taken machine gun and shot gun hit from piont blank and laugh them off. he has been hit with a grenade also. That picture ddient show the end of the fight thou I have read 6 hour but only a little cuz it looked so serously retarded I couldent take it serous like drawing looked like some one on crack and why would a little kid be fallowing them throu there fight

yes I knew that wasent the six hour fight

ARGH! why are you still going on about "6 hour"

ok ok ill make this simple

Elektra
is a superior hand to hand fighter than DareDevil GOT IT?

Sabretooth
>>>>>tho most fans dont agree or do not want to belive<<<<<<<<<
is a better fighter than Wolverine OK?

DareDevil kicked the shit outa Sabretooth during a encounter.

NOW cant you see the huge gap here? healing will not save Wolverine as you can see DareDevil made Sabretooth forget about his REALLY quick.

ok just to tell u wolverine has beaten saber tooth ever time except for the flash backs wolverine is superior in fighting skill sapertooth figths with feral he just keep swinging. dare devil would clearly lose to wolverine and wolverine is tthe better fighter it even says it in the card game the sight and in the x-men hand book wolverine stated to eb the best fighter in skill. venom do not state what u do not know. can dare devil fight against spiderman hell no wolverine fougt against spiderman and spiderman thought he might be as fast as he or faster

havent u read the new wolverine marvel ngith comic sabertooth even admitted wolverien was better and the person who ruin sabertooth he wanted logan to fight and tehn after they tired out kill wolverine and capture the basicly girl wolverine

also state the comic were dare devil ruin saber tooth lol i highly dought that ever happen

lol OK champ!

Spiderman would slap Wolverine around like a *****. If you dont belive that then you are probably the reason the comic was written like that.

so fans dont piss and moan cuase there hero got the piss beat out of them.

before you go on and on about god only knows answer me this.

Batman was able to take Carnage out with his fist's. why? cuase obviously Batman cant be killed like that. fans would go nuts.
also in that issue Carnage gets scared cuase he thinks he is going to die.
BUT Carnage has a self destructive personality meaning HE WANTS TO DIE. he just cant do it himself. huh wow thats odd huh?

that is a example of BAD WRITTING.

much like WOLVERINE

a)Surviving a nuclear blast
b)actually beating up guys like Sabretooth and Cyber
c)holding his own against guys like Spiderman, Hulk, Venom

all of those things would not happen if the fans reaction were not involved with the story. this is how I look a vs threads.
I dont see good guy/bad guy
I see what can they do and how well would it work.

as I hope you realize a LOT of of character's would be dead by now if they fought there arch enimies who are almost always bigger stronger and much dealier in a fight

Lol, he said "it even says it in the card game!"

well I ment stats in the card game not that they actauly said it. also venomvan u take stuff tos erous and littral if it happen in comic it happen so dont right that never happen in real life it aint real life dude and he is clearly better then dare devil or sapertooth and just as good as venom or spiderman or the hulk or better so don't bother sayign liek that all fan based dude it a comic rember. I sorry spiderman fougth wolverien twice first tie second one wolverien with out his claws was winning lol but they stopped fighting. oh and if u bother to read the fight carnage and batman had the reason batman was winnign was because of a device that the joker had that made carnage the strength of a human and had human speed and was weaken in every way so it was like batman vs a normal human and batman a better fighter then carnage in skill so that why he was winning.

Really? uh? dont you mean the connection to his Symbiote was interferred with? please dont lecture me about Symbiotes YOU will not prove me wrong.

and yes Sabretooth has fought DareDevil. give me a minute and I will give you a link.

I don't know it was some type of music joker was playing but if u read it it cleary said he was weaken that why batman could fight him. any ways I bet dare devil fought saber tooth but I bet it was a good fight and if dare devil win witch i dought he barly pulled it off

weaken may be the term you use, but it is not what happend. Kassidy couldnt comunicate with his Symbiote, thus he couldnt fight back. neither were truly weaker.

and I give up, the post must have been too long agao.

if Darth Jello posted here Im positive he could re-tell the fight punch for punch.

from what I remember DareDevil was losing only due to bystanders getting in his way the second the left DareDevil literally berated Sabretooth with his insane skill

Never, how can you use a "What If..." comic to back up your arguments which is obviously not in continuity with the rest of the Marvel Universe, then basically tell wolverine8888 that the annuals dont count because they arent in continuity? "to hell with Claremont and what he wrote in the Annuals(most of them arent in continuity anyway)" {i know the quote is off, but i have posted the real one}

Claremont wrote both stories. if your going to use what he wrote to back up your argument, then let someone else use what he wrote to back up theirs.

also, the entire phoenix story you just descibed(out of order i might add), i found in Uncanny X-Men 135-137, and the original ending to the dark phoenix saga that was not printed due to controversy(by the way, nice job on picking that up) not a "what if" comic. im staring at them now. i have both "What If Phoenix Had Not Died"(#32) and "What If Phoenix Rose Again"(#33) This would mean that you were in fact NOT using "What If" comics to back your argument(it would also mean that you were wrong for once), but the simple fact that you TRIED using a "what if" comic to prove your point just strengthens my point. dont make me scan and post every issue of the dark phoenix saga that i own to prove that i am right.

well it took some digging too find this but here is the Sabretooth/DareDevil reference.

I thought Darth Jello posted this but actually Never posted it back in the Batman vs Wolverine thread. anyhow......

Wolverine cannot even beat SABRETOOTH. They stalemate most of the time. Sabretooth HAS beaten Wolverine. It HAS been said that Sabretooth is BIGGER, STRONGER, and FASTER.

Daredevil, for example, beat the SHIT out of Sabretooth. Daredevil #228 was it? With Sabretooth on the cover. Part of the Mutant Massacre crossover. The ONLY reason Sabretooth got a few slashes in is because Daredevil was initially trying to protect some innocent bystanders. After the area cleared, Sabretooth did not land ANOTHER punch. Daredevil beat his ass until he ran and jumped into the sewers.

Daredevil #238
Title: "It Comes With The Claws"
Writer: Ann Nocenti
Penciler: Sal Buscema
Inker: Steve Leialoha
Cover: Art Adams/Klaus Janson
Colours: Christie 'Max' Scheele
Letters: Joe Rosen
Editor: Ralph Macchio
Assistant Editor: Craig Anderson (uncredited)
Date: Jan. 1987
Cover Price: 0.75,0.95

Characters
Bob
Butch (Fatboys)
Daredevil
Darla (Fatboys)
Jake
Raphael
Sabretooth

i didnt realize exactly how many What If comics there were...wow. http://www.milehighcomics.com/mcgi-bin/search.cgi i especially want http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=enlarge&issue=95078701518%2079

cool I wonder how the fight went. any ways ya there are a lot of what if comics

wolverien is deffently better then saber tooth liek i said msot of the tiem wolverine winns the fight or they end up stop fighting also i liek to add that only time saber tooth ever beat wolverien was in a flash back. dare devil I ebt barly beat saber tooth if he even beat him also wolverine woudl ruin daredevil can daredevil fight spiderman no. wolverine ahs fought spiderman twice once he straight out tied second tiem it was wolverine winning with just his hand but then they stopped fighting. aslo can daredevil fight hulk nope can dare devil fight thing nope and wolverien ebaten the thing almost ever time they fought.

man there a lto of typo sorry if u wont me to re wright it cuz u can't read it tell me I wrote in hurry cuz I am off to bed it like 1:30 here I got school

You too will learn, Arachnoid.

Chris Claremont wrote both stories, sir?

27 1981/06 What if Phoenix had not died? >>>Mary Jo Duffy<<< - Jerry Bingham - John Stuart X-Men

That looks like it says "Mary Jo Duffy." Does that look like Chris Claremont to you, sir? Mary Jo Duffy wrote it. You were saying? If you HAVE both comics like you say you do please open the front cover and look on the bottom right of the 1st page - you know, where it says "written by Mary Jo Duffy" in italics in the little box?

When I used the "What If?" issue regarding Phoenix I used it to demonstrate the scope of her powers and then **backed it up*** with other references to her abilities. What she accomplished in THAT comic book is consistent with nigh every other characterization of Phoenix. You DO see the part where I said "Other quotes," do you not? You have NEVER EVER seen anyone EVER in ANY comic book have Wolverine regenerate from one drop of blood. There is a HUGE difference between the two.

No shit I quoted the story out of order as I was doing it from memory. Shall I cut and paste for YOU when I reposted it after I FOUND the comic book? I also posted the wrong title - again, from memory. Fluck it, I WILL post it. Be right back.

Sir.

Here you are.

"Found the issue. It is "What If Phoenix Had Not Died," Issue #27.

Arachnoid, Dark Phoenix (and Jean Grey actually) could manipulate molecular matter. On page 17 she created a spacesuit for Kitty Pryde out of nothing when she burst out of her spaceship.

"Phoenix gestures...and a protective spacesuit encases the child!"

She consumed the sun I referenced on page 31.

"Surely no one will mind if I consume a very small star, with no inhabited planets. Who'll miss it? Who'll ever know?" -- she did not know that the star was a sun and had inhabited planets orbiting it.

Page 32 she kills Kitty Pryde (forgot about that one). Page 33 Professor X says "I...could destroy your entire mind....and rob you of intelligence...forever!" Dark Phoenix responds, "You could try."

Page 34 -- "Too late, Charles Xavier realizes that she is only toying with him." She turned him into a vegetable actually. Slams Angel into a wall and kills him on page 35; buries Storm alive on page 35; drops a building on Iceman on page 35; "Enjoy your taste of hellfire!" -- Nightcrawler, page 35; reverses Colossus and Wolverine's fastball special and kills Colossus, page 37; drags Wolverine into Nightcrawler's pyre, page 37; kills Polaris, page 37; Havoc THEN hit her with all of his power, staggering her - she sent the blast through HIS chest, not Scott's: page 38; Cyclops THEN hit her full blast also but she did not even budge, just returned a blast and killed him. She then realized she killed Scott, and...

"In Jean Grey's moment of anguish, the Phoenix Power engulfs her, and continues to spread and grow until it engulfs the entire city...and the earth itself. And still it does not stop, but continues to grow...expanding ever outward, across the universe...destroying everything in its path." -- page 39."

Now. Tell me THAT is out of sequence, sir? Since you have it sitting right in front of you - and brilliant how you posted the last comment in the thread where I SAID I found the comic book and reposted the information in the interest of clarification? You know, where you said "Thanks for the info?"

Pffft.

And oh, sir - "What If Phoenix Had Not Died" was #32? I thought you HAD the issue, sir? Notice I cut and pasted what the issue number was above? Here it is again, since you HAVE IT, you know:

27<<<< 1981/06 What if Phoenix had not died? Mary Jo Duffy - Jerry Bingham - John Stuart X-Men

See the arrows? Number #27. But wait, I DO have #32 for you (even though you have it already):

32 1982/04 What if the Avengers had become the pawns of Korvac? Mark Gruenwald - Greg LaRocque Avengers

Does THAT look like "What If Phoenix Had Not Died?" Looks more like "What If...Pawns of Korvac" to me.

And wait - "What If Phoenix Rose Again?" is #33? Lo and behold - look what I have!

33<<< 1982/06 What if the Dazzler had become the herald of Galactus? Danny Fingeroth - Mike Vosburg - Jon D'Agostino Dazzler

#33 looks like "What If...Herald of Galactus?" to me, sir - but again, don't you have these sitting in FRONT OF YOU?

LoL Wolverine8888, the only time Sabretooth beat Wolverine was in a flashback? Oh, what about the time when he BROKE WOLVERINE'S BONE CLAWS in his OWN COMIC BOOK?

Don't tell me you know less about your favorite character than you let on - that COULD NOT be, now could it?

Sabertooth has beaten Wolverine before.....I can't really think of too many times Wolverine has beaten Sabretooth...didn't he beat him to become the Horseman of Death? Other than that, nothing springs to mind.

Sabretooth toys with wolverine and is the clear superior....adamantium sabretooth owns wolverine

Just to bring this back to topic could some one explain to me how Wolvierine could close enough to the doctor to win? I mean those tentacles move fast enough to deflect bullets, and have caught spiderman which is pretty damm hard to do.

Ock would tear out his heart and wolvie would die....wolvie's only chance would be to sneak up....although Ock now keeps a personla forcefield around his body....so wolvie would have no chance

My thoughts exactly, and before any comes in biching about how Wolvie's got an adamantium skeleton I'll give out a free biology lesson. Put your hand against your chest and push, feel that. That's your rib cage protecting vital organs. Now because Logan's rib cage is made out of a practicly indestructible metal it should be impossible to reach his heart. But wait you cry, you think that Ock's going to tear out Wolvie's heart. How can this be. Simple place your hand a little lower down across your stomach and push. Feel that it's pushing in, know why? Beacause there are no bones there so there's nothing to stop Ock from shoving a tentacle in there and removing said stomach. In fact since the rib cage doesn't protect the underside of the chest Ock can take out Wolvies' heart, lungs, liver and kidneys and something tells me that Logan's healing factor will not be able to repair that.

wolverine (without the adamantium) beat the living crap out of sabretooth (with adamantium) to become the horsmen of death

Nightcrawlers fathers name is Azazel. You are idiot. Period.

*AHEM* 1989 "What if Phoenix Had Not Died?" #32 Written by Chris Claremont and George Carragonne. http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=enlarge&issue=95078701518%2032
There must be 2 comics with the same name.

no, wait theres more! http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=enlarge&issue=95078701518%2033 1989 #33 Written by George Caragonne. dont give me stats from a different f*cking volume of what if comics. i was reffering to the run in 1989, while you where referring to the run in 1981. obviously there was some sort of misunderstanding.

Wolverine...you've never stated 1 resource. Telling never to "check uncanny x-men" doesn't mean shit. You check it....tell us a comic # and then we'll go check it. It's not our job to hunt through hundreds of comics to prove your point.

You are completely wrong here. Spiderman would beat the day lights out of Wolverine. Wolvie is NOWHERE near as fast, strong, agile, or quick as Spiderman...that's a fact. Check your "card games."

And don't go stating that they only fought 2x. Spiderman single handedly kicked the crap out of all the X-men in Secret Wars...when they were a "neutral" group. Wolvie, Cyclops, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler...all beaten DOWN by Spiderman. And that was BEFORE he got the alien symbiote. With it...he'd rape them all and put them in pink dresses.

Lmfao.

Once again Wolverine8888 prooves his stupidity, gets his misinformed statements corrected; and still preaches on like they weren't.

What a ****ing loser, honestly. Regenerate from a drop of blood? Rofl..

Anyway, I think this arguement has been settled. It's more than likely Doc Ock would annihilate Wolverine, whether the gimp accepts it or not.

By the way, nice post Link. Everytime I felt like commenting on something in this topic one of three guys just pounced on it! Good to see.

had to mention it....i just read the comic last night. I haven't picked up my comics in...ummm...maybe 8 years.

I went and picked up some new Venom comics...the art is getting a little too crazy to follow. What happened to guys looking all buff and pissed off? now they look like a poorly drawn Samurai Jack cartoon.

well actually, i was thinking he'd rip wolvie's heart out through his ass....but stomach works too i guess

Yeah if those were the Venom tsunami comics the art is shit, the only exception was Run witch was amazing but the story was ridiculous. Id say try to find some of the old mini-series that are genuine Marvel.

i forgot Venom: on Trail. it was awsome and even Spidey and DareDevil get involved

I own spiderman vs wolverine he clearly tied that amtch and in the end wolverine was on top of spiderman. spiderman " he fast is he faster then me". spiderman again " No no one faster then me no one". "He messing with my head making me slow". wolverine was on top of spiderman and could of pop he claws strait throu spiderman throught. so dont tell me he no match for spiderman. also they fougth in new york wolverine was beating him with his bare hands but I do not own the comic so i can nto quote it. just to tell u wolverine beat saber tooth with the metal in saber tooth not wolverine to win horse men of death. next mavel knights new wolverine series. saber tooth gets his as kicked from a girl version of wolverine he goes down ins econds wolverien fights here and is winning then theys top and basicly **** don't ask me why. "you'r still the best person for the job victor". saber tooth "Nah I can find some body better". oh and u know who he finds he finds wolverine to do it. oh and also if u care to say omga red beat wolverine he beat him barly and wolverien was havily drug wich omga red states. also I sorry but wolverine not going to sit there and let doc ripp out a organ and that still wont kill wolverine any ways wlverine just heal it in seconds. so wolverien will take thsi one wolverine can tie or beat a person that beaten doc and wolverine brobly wont mind killing doc so hill get the job done twice as fast

which comic # is that in which comic book series?

if it's an X-men or Wolvie comic then it's pretty much because it's a series that he is involved in. In a Spiderman series I would expect no less than Spidey to whoop him down.

Really it need to be either a best of...like best of 3, 5, or 7. Or it should atleast be in a neutral comic like a crossover or some other persons comic. Like if those 2 fought in a DareDevil comic.

Whatever the reason...it's a KNOWN FACT that Spidey is much quicker than Wolverine. Read the back of you comic cards to get that info.

oh I not sayign he isent but wolverine is maxed out in fighting skill spiderman no were near being any were enar max. wolverine is a enchance human so he mighty fast but deffently not as fast as spiderman but his fighting skill played a roll in making him seem so fast. the comci name is soiderman vs wolverine but this is the book version in the comic version it the same name and actually I think it was a spiderman comic or a cross over diffently wasent a wolverine comic or a x-men. my quess I spiuderman comic because spiderman face was on the bottum u know the thing that tells u it a spiderman comic.

that picture of Spidey's face in the alien costume?

alien costume wtf?

u mean his suit the red on i think it was might be the black thou I dont know since I own the book version not the comic the comic version like 4 comics long

alien costume aka Venom's Symbiote.

I noticed that i have that in a lot of my old comics. I think it means it's a re-print and not an original.

maby in the book I have actaully when he first gets his red suit I quess he use to have the black suit that looks like venom he left it at home and begg some dude to give him the red suit wich he far over pay the guy for it was quite funny actaully

no no no.

In the original Secret Wars, Spidey gets beat up and his red and blue costume gets ruined. Then he goes to this machine and it kicks out this little black ball that turns into his costume. It gives him more strength, speed, agility...and he doesn't need web shooters anymore.

It's infinity wars #8. I think the one where Hulk lifts the mountain is #5.

ya i ment he use to use a black suit be for he ever got the red suit

black suit idea was bitching...too bad it drove him nuts and he had to rid himself of it.

hey just outta curiosity...do you EVER re-read what you type or correct it? reading your posts requires a codebreaker from a box of cracker jacks...

no I should re read it but I get lazy cuz I doign like 5 things at once

Uh, NO. You have Volume TWO - you know, the REPRINTS? Just like the OTHERS you posted. If you are going to call me out, have your shit correct please. I posted the ORIGINALS. Not to mention that you called yourself telling me that my recollection of the events as WELL as my authors was wrong. Pfft.

As Capleton would say, "From yuh see ah carbon, then yuh can know one different from de original one..."

Yes, WOLVERINE8888, which ISSUE number was this in the series please?

Since you HAVE the book?

I dont know like I said I have the book version wich is just says spiderman vs wolverine I do not no the series it doesent give it but the wrighter is James C. Owsley

Is this it?

http://www.spiderfan.org/cgi-bin/cover.pl?10293,spiderman_one_shots,wolverine.jpg

ya but mine the book version it has be for the fight too

quess it realy was a cross over

ok I have a summary, I havent changed anything

>>> In Detail...
# Spider-Man vs. Wolverine
Editor: Ann Nocenti
Writer: Jim Owsley
Pencils: Mark Bright
Inker: Al Williamson


Feb 1987 : Spider-Man One Shots Title Index

"High Tide"

Our story begins with Spider-Man failing to prevent a series of murders. Peter becomes very depressed and decides to quit being Spider-Man. He decides to take a vacation. Just as he is about to leave, J. Jonah Jameson calls him with an assignment. It turns out all the murder victims were KGB agents and the killer is a rogue agent named Charlemagne. Ned Leeds has pulled in heavy favors to get this information and he and Peter go to West Berlin in pursuit of the story.

Peter's mood doesn't improve in Berlin, particularly when Wolverine shows up at his hotel room knowing Peter is Spider-Man. Wolverine tells Peter that he is involved in something much worse than he realizes. He tells Peter to leave Germany. Peter doesn't want to be there anyway. When he goes to tell Ned that he is returning home, he finds Ned has been murdered.

Peter is in a daze as he prepares to leave Berlin. He can't help but think that if he had been in his room, Ned Leeds would not have died. He can't help but remember his Uncle Ben's words: With great power comes great responsibility.

Spider-Man follows Wolverine into East Berlin. He finds Wolverine with Charlemagne: a woman Wolverine calls "Charley". Charley disappears in a gun fight and Spider-Man and Wolverine scour Berlin looking for her. When Spider-Man finds Wolverine at a cemetery about to kill Charley, he loses it. Not knowing Charley wants to die, he fights Wolverine. The battle is furious. When Charley sneaks up on Spider-Man, he wheels and hits her in the head. He had thought she was Wolverine and the force of his blow is fatal. Peter is horrified. It was as Charley had planned, but for the whole trip back to New York, Peter keeps replaying it in his mind.

ya that the one

THAT should be the comic in which Spiderman knocked Wolverine out and Wolverine's head cracked the tombstone. THAT is the one-shot I have been talking about all this time. I no longer have the issue, however.

well shit that didnt work out the way I thought it would...I was under the usumption it would have a play by play hit by hit..........

Well more diggin to do,whoopee

lol u havent read that then he never nocked wolverine out lol he pound wolverine in to a tomb stone but wolverine let him do it and kept smileing and then spiderman let wolverien tackle him then wolverine was on top with his first to spiderman throught and could kill him and spiderman had wolverien bye the neck. wolverine through that whole comic was neevr nocked out at all lol u have been talken abotu some thing that never happen

i can give u the play bye play if u want

ok first spiderman tackles wolverine but wolverien and spider man roll over and spiderman barly misses wolverine claws which wolverine swings and spiderman flipps over it. spiderman barly misses another claw and he in his mind says "HE'S Fast... FASTER THAT ME?" then he goes to kcik wolverien but wolverine jump up in the air and spiderman misses. "No...Nobody'S FASTER... NOBODY." wolverine lands on the ground and cracks it with his fist spiderman is be hind him there back and back. wolverien slashes again and cuts spiderman face spiderman kicks wolverine. then goes to punch wolverine ducks and spiderman misses. wolverine and spiderman punch eachother in the face. spiderman jumps from another swing of wolverien claws. wolverien knows a punch is coming he even says it coming he let it hit him. spiderman gives wolverien his all and wolverien just smiles at him the tomb stone he punching wolverine in t is breaking. he let wolverine tackle him over cuz he knows he must break wolverine neck wolverien punchs spiderman spiderman on the ground wolverien on top with his fist to spiderman throught spiderman got wolverine neck then wolverine laugh tells him don't kid ur self u ahve to use all ur strength and u wont I could easly kill u right now then they get up then that the end of there fight but not the comic

that just a summery of the fight

Well from my digging I have found a entire message board about this fight. I could post their responses and their versions of the fights....but should I? well here is a few take note of how they decribe one side winning. btw If you dont care about these then ignore them. just trying to bring somthing new into this thread to end this debate

BlackWing
Well i will admit that if it were in Spiderman comics then Spidey would win or in X-men, Wolverine, etc...then Logan would win. But if they were to do a special one where it was fair, not a certain title but a one even..then Wolverine would kick Spidey's *****

Icer
Spider-Man would kick his ass in a fair fight, that's a fact.
And trust me, I'm not biased. My favorite Marvel character is Wolverine.

randomguy
I can tell you who would be the victor, and despite what Matt Wilson might say, it sure as hell wouldn't be the reader.
Inbetween his webbing, increased strength, and really kickass vertical leap, I doubt Wolverine could even lay a hand on Spidey, much less beat him. Yeah, one swipe of the claws would be all that was necessary, but I doubt he could get close enough to use them.

MCJ
There was that Spidey vs. Wolverine comic a while back, nobody really won. What it really comes down to is...
1. Spidey will have a hard time hurting Wolverine.
2. Wolverine will have a hard time landing hits on Spidey.

Ace the Bathound
Howdy,

Spoiler-ish review/plot synopsis for Spider-Man vs. Wolverine. Written by Christopher Priest (under his "Jim Owlsley" pseudonym) with art by Mark Bright & Al Williamson. Truly great stuff all around, from the characterizations of the major players, the gleefully tangled plot, the really bad jokes from Spidey (without which it's not Spidey, really), and some genuinely emotional moments.
The story culminates in a fight between Spidey & Wolvie. Result:

Spidey cuts loose and pounds on Wolvie until "any normal man would be wonder Jello," but Wolvie still won't give up. Spidey realizes the only way he'll win the fight is to kill Wolverine, but he can't bring himself to do it.

Based on that, and knowing what I know about Wolvie and the boundaries he's willing to cross (or at least used to be), I say it goes to Wolverine.

Can't remember if this is out of print or not, but it's terrific and worth seeking out for any fans of either character.

Chosen Raven
In any normal fight, Spidey would win easily. Remember Secret Wars? All the X-men together weren't able to lay a finger on Spidey. When Wolverine came after him, Spidey simply swatted him away. To quote Spidey, "Those pig stickers may scare the bar room bullies, but to me your a joke!". Now to quote Wolverine,"He made us look like fools! Like Amateurs". The only reason Wolvie ever became a challenge for Spidey, was because he got popular.

Im not posting more, I think the conscience speaks for itself.
popularity blurs the lines of outcomes

ok u could also so the same for spiderman he was so popular that why he was able to do that thou I woudent take secret war to heart but any ways spiderman the same way cuz he was so popular but I like to add wolverien and spiderman about the same now in popularity right in the fight I own they tied and in the battle to in enw york wolverine was kicken his ass so either way realy deosent matter there both the same in popularity now so the fights would be on who realy would win

any one know when tehsecret war came out I pritty sure it like right when wolverien came out lol and right then spiderman was the best selling series bye far

the secret war came out I mean

any ways I think he can take doc if they fought I feel wolverine would deffently win ever time thou a ahrd fight it would be he would beat doc every time

Spiderman is not like Wolverine popularity wise. plain and simple

>>>Spiderman does not win becuase of fans<<< thats why his story's are always rated so high. becuase they are realistic.
he lose's quite often, and to characters he should lose too.

like this.

Spiderman is first class popularity.
Venom is second class popularity.

Venom can dominate Spiderman in Spiderman AND Venom titles just becuase he is supposed to be able too.

Carnage can beat both, Spiderman and Venom TRY to fight Carnage but either Carnage beats them ((Very quickly I might add)) or they trick him.
Hell that Venom vs Carnage has Carnage strangling Venom like a chew toy in under two pages!

Carnage can beat Spiderman and Venom in ANY title. that is realistic

So logically thinking, "IF" Spiderman and Wolverine went at it in a comic not spotlighting either hero who should win?

I still say Spiderman, I dont even need to mention how Spiderman made the Xmen look like fools, just like he ((to some extent or the other)) the Avengers, and Sinister 6.

notice he is confounding entire groups? he might not be beating them but he is easily evading them and getting a few cracks in. when has Wolverine done this?

wolverien took hits from the whole group when they thought rider death wasent him and they weren't holing abck u know what he did he laughed at them. wolevrien lose to people he should lose to like onslaught magneto( for paln reason he can ripp out his matal and use it against him) other too. if u notice when guys first coem otu they are down graded because from experience the wrighter have elarn not to have them what they want to because if there not popular then they want tog et ridd of them that why wlverine started off human strenth just in case people dident like him then they moved him to what they wanted him to be enchanced human so that is why

they actaully also did a simulation when some of the x-men went bad to see if they fought them what would happen wolverien was one of the bad ones and he beat the shit out of the good x-men he nocked collussus down in liked seconds. then then nailed storm wich took even less time

also spiderman is just like wolverine popularity wise

again Never, due to me being fairly new to comic book collecting(yes, and young and naive) i know when to quit and come back to squabble another day. being 16 and currently jobless impairs my collecting abilities. but i will win an argument with you...someday. i feel like spiderman when he got his ass handed to him by Doc Ock in Ult. Spiderman 57. seriously, the more posts from you that i read, the more you remind me of Comic Book guy. damn reprints...

relayd eosent matter cuz if it happen in a normal comic nto one of those gay lookign ones then it happened doesent matter what u think should happen it happens it happens. no change who can tie who who can take to it all marvel world

Hardly, Spiderman dosent have enimies job to him Wolverine does.

I mean you understand Magneto could have killed Wolverine in a SECOND right? and he has fought the X-men how many times?
during any of those encounters he could have looked at Wolverine and killed him.

but he didnt not becuase Wolverine has anything other than a healing ability and a unbreakable Skeleton and ABOVE AVERAGE fighting ability, but becuase fans have to see Wolverine keep up with characters who could easily trash him.

I actually like Wolverine, but am I going to think he can beliveably hang with guys like DareDevil and Spiderman?

NO. every time somebody loses to Wolverine its either becuase he COULD actually beat them or becuase the >>BADGUY<< or even >>SUPERIOR HERO<< jobbed to him and that kinda story is hardly beliveable.

trust me if this was a thread for say......Wolverine vs Punisher or vs Mystique I would be supporting Wolverine obviosly there are more he can beat but they are never mentioned.

dude it takes a lot of energy to amgnetize wolverine metal liek i said comic a comic

first off wolverien is better fighter then dare devil he is a echance human a whole leave over peak he ahs foughten hulk spiderman and has tied or beaten them he beats the thing he fought and tied venom. dare devil would be thrashed u relay under estmate wolverine. first he a echanced haman with the top healing out of any one fighting skill he is consider the best in marvel shown in stats. he is also super keen senses of hearing, smelling. he more durable then spiderman. please tell em how he can't conapre with people he fights all the tiem do comic a comic liek i said and dare deviol is clearly not a amtch for wolverine

if he tied them beat them he can do it simple as that u can't change comics and say no he can't ebat or even fight them what happen in comic is what the comic is no changing it.

i have to agree with VENOMfan. Magneto could have used Wolverine as a weapon to beat the f*ck out of the rest of the X-Men and then tear him to shreds from the inside out. can Magneto control Colossus's organic metal? i would assume that he can, but i have never seen Magneto toss Colossus around like he should. i also have to add, if we did a comic book like you say Wolverine8888, comic books fans would be confused shitless. i dont think they'd be able to understand what the crap they are trying to read. cant you use spellcheck? please?

that depends wolverine emtal harder then normal to magnetize takes him a lot more control so that brobly why and he did one ripp wolverien in sides out rember when he tore it out. they always fought magneto as a groupe that why the final battle with magneto killed like 500 people and wolverine killed him in the end doesent explain how brobly form be hind

sorry for the spelling mistakes lol

its ok. i do see it all the time in chatrooms and whatnot, but when there is a spellcheck available, people should use it.

sorry i playing a game and typing it hard to do. I ment that comic books are the way they are u can;t change them so what happens in a comic book what would happen in a fight with the characters. ecpt for the gay wierd comic that look like some one on crack made u know like the 6 hour fight and sme wolverien comic that are ****ign wierd looking there a couple more

Wolverine is not a better fighter than DareDevil that is bullshit. YOU underestimate plenty of character's.

Venom vs Wolverine? dont get me started

how can you say if it happens in a comic thats how the fight goes but then back track about the 6 hour fight? IF your going to dis alow 1 comic you better disalow them all referencing those characters.

first Id say you need a realistic view of what Wolverine can do and THEN try to argue that point.