The Balance of the Force

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Nim Nom
What does that exactly mean? Does it mean that the Dark side should be equal to the Light side of the Force?
If not, how does killing all the Sith bring balance to the Force?

Ratcat
That is actually one of the most intelligent questions I have ever seen posted here or anywhere else.

Balance does inply equel, by wiping out the dark side they do create a new inequality in ROTJ.

Dim
The only thing I can think it that the force doesn't need to stay balanced...I haven't a clue though.

Ratcat
The Jedi are seeking balance, but what is their definition of balance???

Last Post before my holiday - MAYBE smile

Xantos Clone
WOW! this really is a great post! not bad for your fist one nim nom...

at first I thought it meant to give the jedi absolute power and control ....but now I have not a clue what their idea of balance could mean....

it' almost as if they know they have to thin the head or something...

on the other hand, at the end of ROTJ.......how can they be balanced if there are no Sith at all??...or when they thought the sith did not exist in TPM, why would they want to mess with it at all??...it's only a prophecy or urban legend referece mentioned by mace....

hmmmm....I think we have a large post topic folks....

nice work nim nom!!!! (I say we make nim a jedi)

Dim
Are we sure that it's not just a point in time thing?...

OH...or maybe it's because there's is good and evil in every man...Both Luke and Vader had reached that balance and Palpatine who was totally evil was dead so there was no imbalance there.....okay, that's my theory smile

tainted one
i've argued before that the force was out of balance because of the sith. don't think of the force in terms of yin and yang. there doesn't have to be an equal amount of bad to balance the good. i like to think of it in terms of balance meaning all good. any amount of bad will unbalance the force.

of course, if you follow this train of thought, other questions arise. did anakin bring balance to the force? well maybe because it was him that killed the emperor. it just took him half a decade or more to fulfill that destiny.

but i still think that the son of the sun, the one to bring balance to the force, the prophecy child, is luke. because anakin burns like the sun inside (greg bear, rogue planet), and luke is his son, and luke is the #1 major factor in bringing balance to the force (according to my definition above). i don't think vader would have had enough strength on his own to kill palpatine without his son there.

of course there are a lot of "if's" in this. this is just the way i look at it.

Nim Nom
Or do you think Anakin brought balance to the force by joining the Dark side? and not destroying the Dark side.
But then why would QuiGon tell ObiWan to train the boy, as he will bring balance to the force.

On another note, why would they wanted to bring balance to the force, when they didn't know a sith existed?

Xantos Clone
nim, that's what I was saying too...

I have made comments about Luke being the real prophecy and the real chosen one...."the son of the sun" idea...

it gives meaning to qui gon saying "he will BRING balance...." almost like saying "I don't know how....but he will give way to something big"

his offspring of course...

Dim
Actuall it's the Son of Suns...I think it's refering to the twin suns of Tatooine..And Vader was the one who brought balance because he's the one who killed Palpatine...IMHO.

Gundark
Qui-Gon was only one generation off when he told Obi-Wan that "the boy will bring balance to the force". It is obviously Luke and not Anakin that brought balance in that Luke brought Vader back from the dark side and then Vader chucked the Emporer off lovers leap. In episodes 4-6 there was obviously an imbalance as the Empire was running amok around the universe like Godzilla causing a good deal of general unpleasantness. The imbalance that Qui-Gon spoke of in TPM seemed to be only felt by him. I don't recall Obi-Wan or anybody on the Jedi council pissing and moaning about the bad guys having more points on the scoreboard. I agree that the balance isn't a *** for tat thing (kill one jedi, kill one sith, kill one jedi, kill one sith). It can probably interpreted in many ways, but lets face it, true believers, George (what he says goes) Lucas is the only one who knows for sure.

theEviljedi
Watch that language new person.smile

King Jedi
He didn't swear. Welcome anyway.

Jedimaster3838
I agree with Gundark on this one. I also believe that Luke, not Anakin the "choosen one." I think that EP3 could end with Yoda and Ben talking about Luke and saying that he, not his father, is the one who will bring balance. Luke always has been my favorite character so I may be a little bias. But none the less I think we will find out that the Son of Vader is the ULTIMATE Jedi Knight.

Xantos Clone
Yes!...it would also explain why the emperor in ESB says"we have a new enemy...Luke Skywalker"

"He could destroy us".."the son of skywalker must not become a jedi"

after wiping out almost all of the jedi...how could just one "boy" destroy the entire empire?...I think the emperor and vader believe that Luke could very well be the actual chosen one...

"he would make a powerfull asset"

King Jedi
I think the Emperor just meant that Luke could destroy them because Vader had feelings towards him. Remember the Emperor asked Vader is his feelings were clear on this matter.

Gundark, if you are one of the people I E-mailed could you please E-mail me back so I don't keep bothering you asking you to come here. JM3838 could you do the same please.smile

Great Master Brit Hunt
I agree with KJ.

Darth Daft
George Lucas once said somewhere that the balance is just when things are right or wrong with the Force I think. So the Sith and the Dark Side unbalance, whereas when there is no Dark Side, only Light Side, there is balance.
I think that's it.

theEviljedi
But there were no Sith to there acknowledge in Epi.I.

Xizor
I agree that to have balance all the bad has to be destroyed. Lucas himself reiterated recently that Vader is the chosen one. He brings balance by killing the Emperor.

Darth Daft
Yes and by sacrificing his life to save Luke.

johndillinger19
to bring balance to the force one must embrace the entire force, both light and dark side...i guess you all missed it in jedi when Luke strikes Vader out of ANGER when Vader threatens to turn Leia...Luke is the first jedi to have balanced in himself the light and dark side..this really isnt that had to comprehend

queeq
Wrong... Lucas has said lt many times: balance of the Force is when there is no dark side.

Can't believe we're still having this debate. Every once in a while people come back with a yin-yang concept of the balance of the Force. It doesn't work taht way... Lucas is boos and he says it's light only.

Sith Master X
OMG...this thread was 10 years old...I was only 12 when the last post was made up until today. lol

queeq
laughing out loud

Who dug up this okld fossil then?

DarthGalbatorix
Originally posted by Nim Nom
What does that exactly mean? Does it mean that the Dark side should be equal to the Light side of the Force?
If not, how does killing all the Sith bring balance to the Force? ok this is my first post and i want to do it with it i think the balance of the force is rubbish because in TPM they say they don't believe the sith still exist so.... at that time there was balance (in their minds) so why the hell would they believe in the prophecy and after TROTJ if u read stuff like star wars legacy there of coarse are more sith so no there is not balance of the force and if there is they must be billions of prophecy's of people that will kill the sith and besides there will always be more sith

queeq
OMG... this has been talked to death for no reason at all. Lucas has explained this enough: balance=light side only. The end.

JuicyJ
Again I'm late, but here I am.

IMO balance very well means equal. It does everywhere else in life; why not the force. Let's not forget the part of the prophecy where they mention the "chosen one" being born of midichlorians, which (as much as I too love Luke) means he is not the chosen one.

To DarthGalbatorix: if QuiGon never pursued Anakin as the chosen one then there would be no Star Wars. Anakin wouldn't have met Padme, so no Luke or Leia....you get the picture. In life everything happens for a reason. But you had me thinking and I like that!

After Anakin balances the force, 2 Sith Lords (Darth Sidious + Darth Vader) = 2 Jedi Masters (Master Yoda + Master Obi Wan Kenobi); Luke then maintains the balance. Thank you johndillinger19 for explaining this. But in the books yes there were 2 young apprentices of Darth Vader; not considered Sith when Darth Sidious and Vader were still living, but after death we again have 2 Sith = 2 Jedi Twin Skywalkers.

Bottom line as long as there are Jedi there will be Sith simply because of HUMAN NATURE.

I would love to have your thoughts.

General G
Oh my. I just read this whole page and can't stop laughing laughing out loud

queeq
I can't stop crying.

Originally posted by JuicyJ
Again I'm late, but here I am.

IMO balance very well means equal. It does everywhere else in life; why not the force. Let's not forget the part of the prophecy where they mention the "chosen one" being born of midichlorians, which (as much as I too love Luke) means he is not the chosen one.

To DarthGalbatorix: if QuiGon never pursued Anakin as the chosen one then there would be no Star Wars. Anakin wouldn't have met Padme, so no Luke or Leia....you get the picture. In life everything happens for a reason. But you had me thinking and I like that!

After Anakin balances the force, 2 Sith Lords (Darth Sidious + Darth Vader) = 2 Jedi Masters (Master Yoda + Master Obi Wan Kenobi); Luke then maintains the balance. Thank you johndillinger19 for explaining this. But in the books yes there were 2 young apprentices of Darth Vader; not considered Sith when Darth Sidious and Vader were still living, but after death we again have 2 Sith = 2 Jedi Twin Skywalkers.

Bottom line as long as there are Jedi there will be Sith simply because of HUMAN NATURE.

I would love to have your thoughts.

Balance=light side only. That's the only thought that counts.

darthmaul1
Originally posted by queeq
I can't stop crying.



Balance=light side only. That's the only thought that counts.

so if it's light side only (and i apoligize if this has been said before)
but what do they have in TPM as far as they know there are no sith, no darkside so wouldn't they have balance?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by darthmaul1
so if it's light side only (and i apoligize if this has been said before)
but what do they have in TPM as far as they know there are no sith, no darkside so wouldn't they have balance?

Doesn't mean it would remain that way indefinetely.

The fact that the Sith were discovered to still be alive in that movie would give the prophecy more meaning.

queeq
But OB1 already sensed it, something elusive.

focus4chumps
don't think of 'balance' as a scale. its 'balance' as in 'at an equilibrium'. in nature, oil spills dont account for some constant necessary yin/yang struggle. its just a big man-made mess and nothing more, which causes imbalance/death of ecosystems.

queeq
Good one. And true.

Charlie512
Originally posted by queeq
OMG... this has been talked to death for no reason at all. Lucas has explained this enough: balance=light side only. The end.

Well there is this argument: Death of the Author

queeq
Well... that is true up to a point. But Lucas has always clearly explained what his balance was and how that was part of his narrative structure. And I do think there is a difference between a non-fictional world as backdrop and a purely fictional world. We are all part of the non-fictional world and we can study it from our own perspective. That is only possible in a much more limited way in a purely fictional world. On which we have to rely on its creator.

Plus I think it also depends to what extend an author of a purely fictional world has explained things. Where explanation is missing, imagination takes over. The Balance thing has been explained to death, so all you can do in that matter to disagree is say Lucas is wrong about his own creation.

And I didn't see Lucas in the list of authors there. wink

darthmaul1
Or does the bringing balance mean to be both light and dark in one, at the same time. so this is what Anakin did and the prophecy was misread?

focus4chumps
wrong

queeq
Lucas explained it numerous times: the selfish approach of the Sith dirupts things, it therefore creates unbalance.... the selfless approach of the Jedi brings balance.

Charlie512
Originally posted by queeq
Well... that is true up to a point. But Lucas has always clearly explained what his balance was and how that was part of his narrative structure. And I do think there is a difference between a non-fictional world as backdrop and a purely fictional world. We are all part of the non-fictional world and we can study it from our own perspective. That is only possible in a much more limited way in a purely fictional world. On which we have to rely on its creator.

Plus I think it also depends to what extend an author of a purely fictional world has explained things. Where explanation is missing, imagination takes over. The Balance thing has been explained to death, so all you can do in that matter to disagree is say Lucas is wrong about his own creation.

And I didn't see Lucas in the list of authors there. wink
But think about it queeq. Lucas says that the Dark Side and therefore the Sith are an imbalance to the force. So naturally destroying them would according to Lucas bring balance back to the force. But think about how things were in Revenge of the Sith. Let's say that Anakin hadn't turned and he or Mace found a way to kill Palpatine in his office once and for all ending the threat of the Sith. Would balance have been restored? According to Lucas yes, but let's look at the situation. The Republic is massively corrupt and the Jedi are loyal to them in every way. This loyalty to the Republic has caused the Jedi to do horrible things that are against their code. They have become soldiers and generals (when Mace said they weren't soldiers). They agreed to use genetically modified humans as slave labor to fight a war (the clones). They had child soldiers (Ahsoka anybody?). These are highly unethical things if we think about it.

Furthermore, They suppressed any kind of emotion, they were almost like robots. They had grown arrogant. They were the exact opposite of the Sith, whereas the Sith would show hate they could also show love (Plagueis stopping the people he loved from dying). The Jedi didn't show anything, no love, no hate no compassion nothing. What are humans beings without emotion? Are they even humans anymore?

Yoda in Dagoba in all his wisdom discovered that "Wars do not make on great". If Palpatine died in ROTS would that Jedi have learned this lesson.

And by the way this is why I think the new Clone Wars series is so offensive. They turned what was supposed to an order of pacifists into warriors and glorify war. Lucas!!mad

Now tell me queeq, that after all this, you can continue saying that all it would take for the balance of the force to be restored would be the death of one Sith Lord. Really? Palps dies and everything is ok.
I honestly do not think so. And that is where I believe Lucas is wrong.

And his name doesn't have to be up there, the whole nature of that trope is that its up to the fans to analyze and decide. wink

queeq
Good post, Charlie... still, what you're saying does kinda support Lucas' view that the dark side creates unbalance.

The clone army and the clone war were all set in motion by the Sith Lord. Obviously the PT Jedi suck because they can't see it happening and they all go along with it, unknowingly that the Sith Lord is manipulating the universe. Everyone starts making unethical choices.

Maybe if Palps had died in ROTS, the War would be over, the clone production would have been stopped and things would have gone back to normal. Not fighting wars was normal for Jedi before the rise of the Sith lord. Remember what Qui-Gon said: "I can only protect you, I will not fight a war for you." That was the situation before the dark times: Jedi protect and defend... they do not fight wars.

The whole concept that Jedi need the Dark Side to be balanced is something Lucas at least strongly rejects. Dark Side is selfish, self centered and focussed on greed and satisfaction... That creates the unbalance... And maybe that was what Lucas was trying to tell: dark side unbalances everything just like it clouds everything...

Even with Yoda's great lesson on Dagobah, nothing really would have happened with him exile...

Charlie512
However, the Sith existed before the Clone Wars. Was the force unbalanced the whole time?? What gives. Lucas says that the existance of the Sith creates imbalance not their actions.
And to blame the Sith for the Jedi's decisions is cheap. Yes the Sith set it up for the Jedi to do these things but in the end it was the Jedi themselves that committed the crimes. Not only this but the OT later shows us that their way of life and philosophy towards life was all wrong. In the end of Rotj it was Vader's compassion towards his son that saved him. And Luke had attachments to his friends and this never caused him to go to the Dark Side. In fact, he proved that Yoda and Ben were wrong about Vader and this is what ultimately destroyed the Sith. In the PT, the Jedi show no hate, but they also show no love.

Dealing in what if's, isn't going to cut it. What if Sidious had died in Rots? Anything could have happened. We don't know.

Except the Sith were powerful in the OT. The Emperor was as powerful as ever. The force should have been imbalanced the whole time, yet we see that it is changing back. Luke has no problem using the force in ROTJ. The Sith are strong in the OT, up untill Vader starts being conflicted and losing his committment to the Dark Side. Then the force starts to shift. Maybe the force corresponds to Anakin. Wait a minute maybe i'm onto something.

Theory of the Force:

The balance of the force corresponds with Anakin Skywalker's position in the force.

Through out the PT, Anakin becomes increasingly closer and closer to the Dark Side. At the same time the Dark Side is becoming more present in the Galaxy. The Jedi can't use the force as well. Plus when Anakin slaughters the Tuskin Village, Yoda feels darkness in the force. Then in ROTS, with Anakin in the Dark, Obi-Wan says the galaxy is in darkness. Later in the OT, when Vader is conflicted and loses committment to the DS we can see it starts to fail the Emperor. If imbalance depends in the existance of the Sith (Palpatine) and it helped Palps all thought out the PT, why is it not working anymore. Is this not an indicator that Anakin was directly responsible for the balance of the force?

That's my theory anyway, and I think it makes way more sense than Lucas. Lucas CAN be wrong about his own work you know.

And queeq, after all this if you still disagree than answer me this.

Why did Obi-Wan claim Anakin left the galaxy 'in darkness'? What had he done right before their encounter at Mustafar? If balance of the force depends solely on the Sith, why would killing a bunch of Jedi do anything??

He left the galaxy in Darkness by becoming a Sith and embracing the Dark Side. wink

Ushgarak
The Sith might have existed earlier but they were weak. Lucas tends to look at this in cosmic terms- the Dark Side was growing strong in the PT era, but the Light Side was back on its game by the OT time (I think he uses very similar words to that in one of his commentaries; I cannot recall which). The Dark Side tends to destroy itself, of course, so I suspect GL intended to show that it was inevitable that the opportunity to destroy it would come. He also seems to have the idea that the Jedi don't just represent the Light Side- they embody it. Killing them was rather important, and that Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke and Leia were around is what meant the Sith had not finished the job. Yes, this does mean that GL is looking at things both cosmically and literally, and if you want to expand on how he tends to confuse the heck out of viewers then by all means go ahead.

Incidentally. whilst of course you are free to come up with whatever alternate interpretation on Star Wars that you like, or how much you like or dislike GL's vision, if it comes to debates about events in the film (which I know this is currently not- this is a just-in-case thing), we have a canon policy here that assumes GL is the Word of God on his own creation. It saves time with people arguing the terms of the argument more than the argument itself.

queeq
Originally posted by Charlie512
He left the galaxy in Darkness by becoming a Sith and embracing the Dark Side. wink

You're overstating his individual power. Anakin assisted in destroying the jedi (i.e. Light Side) and helped the Sith (i.e. Dark Side) to come to power...

And Ush is right, nice to see you again dude.

Lucas explains it like this: Sith are only focussed on personal gain and self satisfaction. Because they are selfish they will always fight each other (hence the rule of two, apprentice takes over master, takes on new apprentice who will then destroy master etc). Lucas's point is: a balanced society is one whether people look after one another selflessly. A society where people are selfish is out of balance and will ultimately destroy itself. So there.

Charlie512
This still doesn't explain the Balance of the Force in OT. In ANH, onwards, the Sith are as powerful as ever. The Emperor is as evil and as powerful as ever. Vader is also very evil at this time. The Sith are alive and well, yet the balance of the force already starts to shift. If the Sith still exist AND are powerful why is it that the balance of the force is changing? Heck by Rotj, the Dark Side all but fails the Emperor.

But the OT shows that more is needed than just emotionless selfless service (that service often being violent) towards others. The big lesson in Rotj is that compassion and caring for others is the key to destroying the Dark Side. You can say one of Anakin's biggest virtues (and flaws) is that he cares deeply for others in a very emotional way. If, the Jedi were indeed right in their ways and all that is required for a balanced society is to be selfless, even if it cuts out all emotion. Then, why would the force create someone with Anakin's character (which completely foils the Jedi at the time) specifically for the purpose of bringing balance to the force?

Ushgarak
They may both be powerful but they are also starting to fall out.

The Jedi do not cut out emotion- they just don't let it override their judgement.

Sadly, of course, we know nothing of the Prophecy, really, so that last point will always be vague.

queeq
Yup...

DARTH POWER
I know the Sith had to be destroyed to restore balance.

I just don't think it was solely about doing that in a Lightsaber fight. If it was then it just makes no sense. Why would we need a chosen one when we've already seen Mace Windu win a Lightsaber fight against the Emporer?? Plus there was Yoda who was more powerful than Windu.

So thats why I think destroying the Sith comes down to more than just swinging a lightsaber well enough to cut Sidious down.

Might just be me, but in a world of Star Destroyers and Death Stars that interpretation makes little sense to me.

Ushgarak
Well, this ties into us having no real idea what balance or imbalance in the Force actually does, and tied to your point why, for example, the Rebel fleet iis not destroyed by the entire Imperial fleet that was present at Endor, which in turn made it seem that they may as well have just attacked Coruscant from the start, if the rbeels were that strong. And never mind lightsabres- the Emperor would have died anyway when the Death Star blew up.

Which in turn leads to the point that ROTJ was originally episode IX rather than VI and would have had time to build things up, and the rushed and haphazard construction of ROTJ's plotline, and the overall "GL never rally explained anything about the cosmology' issue.

All we know is that imbalance is a bad thing; destroying the Sith removed the problem, and GL said plainly that this was literally a matter of killing the Sith.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, this ties into us having no real idea what balance or imbalance in the Force actually does, and tied to your point why, for example, the Rebel fleet iis not destroyed by the entire Imperial fleet that was present at Endor, which in turn made it seem that they may as well have just attacked Coruscant from the start, if the rbeels were that strong. And never mind lightsabres- the Emperor would have died anyway when the Death Star blew up.



This was my point in that what difference do lightsaber fights really make? Lightsaber fights do seem kind of pointless in the middle of that whole ROTJ battle like you've just pointed out.

That's what makes me think Destroying the Sith did not necessarily have to be in a Lightsaber duel.

End of the day how could Luke even get any where close to Palpatine for a sword fight if Palpatine didn't want to fight him??

On the other hand Luke using his Force powers to be the best pilot on the Rebel fleet(using that to destroy the Death Star for instance) would be much more of a threat imo.

Ushgarak
I think you'll find the point here is that they kinda forgot the Emperor would have died anyway- in the early ROT drafts, Luke had to go to confront the Emperor on the Imperial homeworld (named Had Abaddon at the time). They moved him to the Death Star later in development and I think they plain forgot abut the consequences of that.

So we get all of this 'the Emperor must be personally confronted' vibe that doesn't seem to make any sense. But that it had to be in person was still the thematic intent.

DARTH POWER
Hmm. Strange. Just don't see why the Jedi were relying on The Chosen One to do that then, when there was already Yoda and Mace(as per the prequels) who could have done the same job.

Ushgarak
Well that's getting into the nature of Prophecy, from essential to guideline to self-fulfilling. But they didn't get into it in the films so we can only speculate.

Fair play to Matrix, they did at least explain their Chosen One prophecy. Though they did it in a way that made a lot of people hate it.

queeq
Indeed. But who likes the SW prophecy then? I don't like the entire idea, especially since we don't know what it is.

darthmaul1
As yoda said "a prophecy that miss read may of been"
IMO the prophecy means that anakin will bring balance to the force but for himself? cause he was good then went bad and then good again.

queeq
As Ush said: we haven't got a clue.

DARTH POWER
We do! It was explained really well.. The Chosen One is he who was born without father, who turns to the dark side and becomes murderous for the next 20+years so he can get so close to the Emporer that he would never suspect a betrayal and attack him off guard the second he turns back to the Light Side, thereby destroying the Sith and Restoring balance to the Force.

I know it would have been much simpler and saved a lot of lives if the chosen one just helped Mace kill the Emporer in the first place, but the ways of the chosen one are beyond mortal understanding.

queeq
We have not read the prophecy, all we know what people read into it... The whole murderous bit is not there I think, OB1 said he was to bring balance not leave the universe in darkness... So there we go: we haven't got a clue.

Arhael
The Jedi use Force for guidance. They follow the will of the Force, therefore they do not distort natural balance. The SIth on the other hand use the Force merely as a tool for their own benefit. They do things against the will of the Force, therefore they distort balance.
The balance in the Force is, when both good and bad beings leave in harmony, some of them are happy, some - suffer but generally there is stability and everyone lives more or less normal life. The darkside, however, makes both good and bad beings suffer. The whole galaxy was suffering because of Palpatine. Darkside is a cancer that makes suffer everyone.
Although balance was restored with death of Palpatin and Vader, there was still darkside luring deep in the galaxy. That is why Luke is there, to maintain the balance and prevent any other darksiders to put galaxy in chaos again.

queeq
Well, yes and no.

Balance is light side only!!!!!!! How many times do we have to say this, this is the Law of Lucas.

Arhael
Originally posted by queeq
Well, yes and no.

Balance is light side only!!!!!!! How many times do we have to say this, this is the Law of Lucas.
That was my point that balance is lightside only. ) I did mention "darkside luring deep in the galaxy" but, if they just live on a remote planet and harmlessly watch holotv at home, they won't distort any balance. wink

DARTH POWER
^ Perhaps possible but not as far as we know. Any villains post ROTJ should be non-force sensitives.

This is where the EU directly contradicts Lucas.

queeq
But we don't discuss EU here, so you have no point.

DARTH POWER
The eu part i just added as a "btw". Because it seems to me that's whats influencing Archael's theories of balancing the force.

focus4chumps
no, he totally has a point. george lucas was wrong about his own story. thank god we have EU readers to set him straight.

queeq
So discuss that in the EU forum.

focus4chumps
eww no. its creepy there.

queeq
It is .... it's EU. And I like to keep this forum non-creepy.

DARTH POWER
^ Do you count CW Series as EU?

Ushgarak
Difficult area. Effectively yes, especially as it has become more and more contradictory to the films, though we discuss it in the tv series area.

queeq
That's what it's for.

Darth Luminous
Balance is light side only!!!!!!! How many times do we have to say this, this is the Law of Lucas.

No, it isn't. It's the Law of Some People on the Internet. Lucas never agreed to it or backed it up anywhere.

All of one thing and none of the other is not what balance means.

Lucas says that the Dark Side and therefore the Sith are an imbalance to the force. So naturally destroying them would according to Lucas bring balance back to the force.

Lucas never said that the very existence of the dark side itself was imbalance, nor did he or any of his characters say that the dark side could or should be destroyed.

focus4chumps
which brings up the age-old question:

if george lucas says a thing and you cram your fingers in your ears and go "LA LA LA LA", does that mean he never said that thing?

the quote was posted and cited several times and you are just ignoring it to support your utterly incorrect hypothesis.


again:

"...Which brings us up to the films 4, 5, and 6, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..." -George Lucas

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chosen_One

Robtard
I'm not reading the entire thread, but in case someone else sensible hasn't already pointed it out, Obi-Wan says this in Ep1:

"With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

ergo, that Darth Luminous doesn't know his own ******* from a Sarlacc.

Sadako of Girth
In fairness, he does say "and bring balance"...

If he said "to bring balance" then people may have gotten less confused.

But im not a fan of spoonfed style stuff when it comes to these sorts of things and think overall that the results spoke for themselves.

Ushgarak
Actually, I do agree on that last point in general- but defining what 'balance' meant on-screen, even if not literally explained verbally, needed to be done better than it was. There was not enough symbolic representation of his idea. For example, he talks of the Naboo and the Gungans being in a symbiotic relationship, but those are just words. The concept is never shown. They seem entirely separate from what we get to look at.

focus4chumps
well at least we have midichlorians.

http://i.qkme.me/35nhl4.jpg

Ushgarak
Which could have been a great example of symbiosis, but were clumsily explained so people thought he was saying they were the source of the Force.

Sadako of Girth
Agreed. The midichloreans as a feature of the process, rather than the origin sits much better with me. IE: That a higher midichlorean count just shows how receptive you are to the symbiotic thing, rather than it being a power ranking type thing.

focus4chumps
...or he could have just left it at "life creates it...makes it grow", because it was a perfect explanation which maintained a spiritual mysticism and didnt shoehorn a ficional biology lesson into an action adventure...just sayin...

Ushgarak
Yes, but he was trying to make his thematic point about symbiosis. He failed, sure, but it was valid to try and put it in. Just a different take on it and it would have worked just fine, made his point and enhanced his mythology. 'Life creates it' is only the first stage of the process on which he was trying to expand on. He wasn't invalidating any of that.

queeq
Nope, just making it boring.

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