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Some users think Captain America is stronger, faster and a better warrior than Batman. The term "Super-Soldier Serum" is kind of a misnomer. That serum just upgraded Steve Rogers' body and reflexes to the peak of human physical perfection. Bruce Wayne upgraded his body to this same peak of perfection through long, intense, consistent training. Both men have mastered all known forms of human combat. Mentally, Batman has the edge for,unlike Cap, Batman is a realist while Cap is a dreamer. Captain America represents the American Dream while Batman represents the American Reality.

Very nicely put

Very Deep man

yeah, batman is much smarter and has a lot more toys then a shield. if u read any batman novel (best: batman knightfall novel) u really will see how far more superior batman is. and personally i think that he is better physically too, in the way how he was trainded to never give up and if he has to he will stay awake for 14 nights he will, without even showing a small bit of tiredness. mentally he is far more superior, using his enviorment or weapons or even if he is left handed or right handed, he will use these things and what ever he can think of to his advantage

All i can say is read Avengers/JLA crossover #2 in which Batman and Captain America square off and BM admits to CAp that Cap can beat him but that it would take him a long while to do so

obviously the author didnt know batman well, batman isnt suppose to admit weakness over another, he knows that if the other new that he is a lesser person then the other person would use it as an advantage. i dont want it to sound like captain america sux, i know that he would put up an excelent fight, just that batman is better. and remember that i wont argue in a vs forum without knowing both characters inside and out.

yeah I really liked that one, I have part 2 and 3, I read 1 but never bought it. I think DK returns is better

Well BatmanRules to his defense Kurt Busiek has plenty experience in the comic book industry as a writer to simply NOT know abot BM plus the artist George Perez worked in JLA with Batman in it for quiet a while for him NOT to know about BM. But also im no defending Cap since its my belief that given time BM can beat anyone.

i choose brain over brawn, bats rulz!!!

o i didnt know that he wrote it, sorry i take back what i said

I don't know, I can't pick cuz Shadejford has a good point. Maybe Captain A. on a long run, but still I think even Batsie could pull it off.

I could see Batman telling Cap that he could be him for a couple of reasons: 1st Batman could be trying to use phycology on Cap to make him overconfident (unlikly it'd work on someone as experience as Cap) or 2nd reason Batman discovers enough about Cap to know Cap wouldn't really gain much in knowing it.

As far as brains goes Bats superior scientic brain wouldn't have that much of an effect during the fight. It would come down to fighting skill, physical power (strength, endurance, speed, ect...), and reasourcfulness. And to go against what most or you are saying I think Cap would win cause all he has in fights in his skills, shield, and ability to use the enviorment better than Bats cause Bats is more reliant on Gadgets in a fight than Cap is.

Think about it Cap has probably fought more opponets just as powerful as Batman's with just his physical skills, shield, tactics, and using whats around him.
Batman has fought his own share of powerful villians and relies heavily on his physical skills, tactics, and his surroundings, however he also relies on having gadgets, which probably means he's not quite as reasourceful as Cap.

i dont know man, batman has had his belt taken away alot, whenever he has he relies on alot more. example, when riddler took his belt away in the comic and stuck him in that inexcapeable flooding room, bats found away. not that this would help him in a fight, its just that he doesnt rely on his belt that much.

brains: batman
endurance: batman, but cap will come close
brawn: captain america

batman has an advantage... he thinks while he fights... he notices everything... before the fist fight starts, bats already started working on the psychological part... he makes it a point to know who he is fighting...

Yeah Batman is still incrediable reasourceful even without his belt and/or other gadgets, but the thing is Batman made the gadgets to take with him to fights with the intent that he'll use them. If he's ever without his gadgets it's cause they were taken from him or he's caught in a situation where he doesn't have them at hand (which by the way shows he's not prepared for everything and has been outmanuvared).

In the case of him not having his gadgets he resorts to total use of his surroundings like you all say (and he does well), but what I'm saying is that that is pertty much how Cap fights all the time, besides his sheild. Also Batman may be much smarter book wise, but Cap is probably more intelligent in combate situations and I think more experienced in fights.

It'd definetly be a close fight cause they're pertty much equal physically, in combate situations I think Caps got a slight lead for making tactical desisions, but Bats has more weapons at his disposal. So the only way to say who'd win would be whatever the outcome of the Cap vs Bats comic had for their fight (I never saw/read it) since both are comic heros only a comic of their fight would solve it.

I agree, very deep

Well i prefer the Amalgam comic version where Batman defeats Cap

I really do like Cap but I think Batman would be the more resourceful combatant. I have some great pics of Bats and Cap battling/teaming up but i'm not at home right now so i'll post them later.

Yeah, that was the old superfriends days where B&R didn't have a clue when they lost their belts. The show just made that equivelant to Superman's kryptonite. The Belt does not make the Bat

I like the animated series when Ras Al Ghul's henchmen take Batman's belt and they thought it rendered him powerless but man were they wrong.

isn't batman older than the cap? so, that means he has more battle experience. also, caps mutation killed him in the end since his body couldn't take it. from what i saw in x-evo "operation rebirth".

If i'm not mistaken, Cap is from the WWII era and he's been cryogenically frozen so that makes him older than bats but I think his time thawed out and Bat's age are roughly equal. Anyone feel free to correct me, i'm not the authority on Cap.

So i know batman could use his little grappling hook to save him from the fall, but how dead is Cap in the picture right above me? Or let me guess, he'll slide down the Statue of Liberty's dress on his shield and miraculously live...

LOL, if Cap can't find something to hold onto, i'm sure Batman would still save him.

lol saved by your enemy how embarassing, i'd rather plummit to my death than ask Bats for help after chuckin my shield at him.

LOL, sometimes a hero has to suck up his pride

I pick captain america because i want to and i don't need a reason behind it so there.

I will not stand in the way of your decision but I still say Bats has more going for him

Linkalicious, I told you Bats would save him, lol

I don't know why but i just don't like Batman. I know you love him Daywalker and i'm sorry but i don't like him for some unknown reason.

It's cool. Like I said before, I think people dislike Batman because he's a human doing a superbeing's job. That's what I think it boils down to.

So there is one comic in which Bats wins and one in which Cap wins? Which is the latest to come out? I would think Cap has more (barley) tactical fighting skills than Bats cause he is/was a super soilder and was specificaly trained for soildering. And like I've said before he fights with just his shield (usually) against opponets equal in power as Bats, which would sudjest a better use of his surroudings.

Jla/Avengers is the latest. Guess you could say it was Caps redemption but that doesn't change my mind. Cap may be a supersoldier/strategist but so is Bane. Batman has faced way more fierce opponents than Cap and Batman is also a brilliant strategist.

Don't take anything away from Bats because he carries more items, he's just more of a realist as it was mentioned earlier and i can't see that shield getting the captain out of every tight situation.

AHHHHH. Bane broke the Bat, so there is a chance for the Cap. Just as an FYI, i'm a Marvel fan, but Bat would still rock Cap.

I knew I left myself out there with that comment but that's true. I'm not like everyone else in these "vs" discussions that'll say one guy will crush the other, i'm just saying Batman will win and it will be a great fight.

The shield not getting Cap out of tight spots is why I think he's a better tactical user, or more reasourcful. I'm assuming when Bats won it was done mostly by Bats fans or the DC comic universe where when Cap was considered to have the upper hand it was done by pro Marvel Comic writers.

Cause both have comics in which the other wins/winning I guess I'll just say in my opinion they'd come to a draw neither winning or losine offically.

Batman is just more prepared. Even without his weaponry, he'll find what he needs. Batman is very resourceful and can "Mcguyver" his way out of any situation.

Given the choice, i'd rather have the batsuit with all of its devices rather than have a bright suit with my only weapon painted as a bullseye But seriously, I haven't seen Cap prove himself as more prepared or resourceful than Batman but I have seen the opposite.

Let's see, if i saw a guy run out into battle only wearing a pair of shorts and carrying a slingshot, I wouldn't say "wow, he must really be resourceful" I'd just think he was crazy. Would you expect a marine to go to war with just an M-16? No, they're going to have alot of gear and they're well trained.

Carrying less gear doesn't automatically make Cap more resourceful(doesn't really make him crazy either).

Batman probably won the battle because more people like him but the bat character makes more sense anyway from a realistic point of view

actually it was only after batman was awake for over 14 nights, and ate almost nothing that bane confronted batman and broke his back.

Yeah Bats is better prepared and equiped with a cooler costume. I still think now that it'd end up being a draw, but to respond to you Daywalker, if I saw someone run out into a fight with heavily armed men with just a sling shot I would think him crazy or overconfident or stupid, BUT if he came out of that fight the winner, and wins many more fights against tough opponents I would consider him a great fighter, and/or very tactiful/reasourcful, and/or under the personal protection of God .

None of it says Bats couldn't do the same thing, but it doesn't say he could either since he generally goes into combat better armed.

Again I've decided it'd be a draw.

I don't know about u guys but I don't like Cap's costume that much and him either. Batsie has more charisma in his pinky toe then cap all together. I'm sorry I never had the chance to read some of Cap's comics, but still I had the chance to buy some and I never did. That outfit looks gay and I never liked the idea of his name. I like characters that actually made the comic world as it is today. Batman is one of them.
That is why I have mucho respect for Batsie.

One question: Dark Claw as a comic did it make any impression at all? Cuz I liked the drawing but I think the comic wasn't too popular.

I was only overexagerating to make a point but you know what i'm sayin' I think Batman is a more practical character having been through all of the training that he has but as I said earlier, just because Bats has a device for every ocassion doesn't mean that he couldn't do without. I don't think Bats would use it against him (Because he wouldn't have to)but I don't even think Cap would have a good defense against knockout gas.

Both are very formidable but I still think Batman has the edge.

This pic has nthing to do with the topic, I just think it's cool because Bats is a bad guy in it.

I never minded Cap's costume, I just thought he blended in with Supes and Spidey although their fashion choices wouldn't be my first. I always liked Cap because he was a fearless bold fighter but I never saw him as much more beyond that. I grew up with him though and used to love the old cartoons.

Overall, the comics made a pretty good mark in comicbook history but it was just an arrangement between Marvel and DC so of course it had to end sometime Dark Claw was probably the most memorable character and I even saw a guy dressed as him at a convention.

What struck me as odd is that they thought right away to merge Bats and Wolvie but they've never fought,teamed up or even met. Hmmmmmm, that gives me an idea.

Dark Claw animated below

Wow, I never knew that Dark Claw made so much impact. Even a toon? Wow! I think my first Dark Claw issue got left back in the States. So it was an interesting Comic? At first I thought of it as a bit too much but the design wasn't that bad. Oh, and yes, I remembered now, the character design worked fine on the cover and in big close ups, but the whole thing deteriorated when he had to be drawn in smaller cells. There is so much detail on the costume that he looks kinda funny done in small proportion. Tell me more about the story.

There wasn't a cartoon, just an animated version of the comic book. There were two different versions, a regular comic and an animated series style.

In the regular comic Dark Claw gets into it with, yes you guessed it, a joker/Sabertooth combination called Jackal or Hyena. Picture Sabertooth clawing away at you and shooing poisonous acids and gases at you. It came to a climax and left you hanging

The animated version pits him against a Talia(Al Ghul's daughter)/Lady Deathstrike combo. Both comics are fun reads but they both really leave you wanting more and now Amalgam comics is no more

I guess it was a pretty good idea but alltogether maybe too much to handle and go on as a long run storyline.
Marvel is all about teasing, and Image is slowly becoming that way also. I'm not liking the slow pace Spawn is going, but now and then Mcfarlane puts in a really interesting story so it's all good for a while lol.
That is the way Marvel is been doing business for decades. I had to buy like 4 or 5 issues of Wolverine just to be satisfied with the story. That's why I do my reading in a cumulative fashion. I wait some tome and then I collect the fruits and read something substantial. I just can't get the satisfaction just from one issue. ANd that my friends is never going to change.
In Japan the Mangaka (the one that draws up the manga comic) is only one. One man for one comic (not for all comics is like that) he does it all, and he has outstanding deadlines, cuz some comics go out weekly. They have comic books that r 1000 pages thik (it's a collection of comics) and it goes out twice a month. That is why the manga style is so simple and quick to draw. Sometimes u see the deadline frustration reflect on the comic too(funny stuff).

Cap is stronger, faster and doesn't get tired, his body doesn't produce the toxin(lactic acid for you other geeks) that gives you fatigue. He can lift 800 pounds which is the most a human could lift if they were born with all the right genes and had all the right training. Same goes for his speed and agility. His condition can't be attained through training alone. He's a soldier and soldiers are the toughest people on earth. Cap wins.

I say cap becuase what he represents.

I like what Cap represents, but I prefere Bats attitude (not saying one or the other would win). I think I've told you before I like the Darker Heros. Any ways I've looked at some of the new Ulitmate Avenger comics and Cap seems to have a more down to earth attitude in them (not quite as idealistic like Superman). I've also noticed in one comic Cap used gas gernades and gas mask in combat (as well as being armed with gernades and such on his costume now).

yeah eidolon, I like dark comics. In the Ultimates cap is kickarse. uses guns and grenades and shit!like a modern soldier. He leads them into battle saying stuff like 'lets go kick their faces in'-ultimate war.

Sounds good, I may have to start reading the Ultimates now.

in dc vs. marvel #3 they fought each other to a standstill, I do think that cap would have eventually won, simply due to age and experience.

btw, my fave amalgam title was Assassins, featuring: Dare (deathstroke/Daredevil), Catsai (catwoman/Elektra), Big Question (Riddler/Kingpin), and of course, Deadeye (Deadshot/Bullseye). The first page was the best scene as Catsai impales Deadeye on her sai and says "I don't know why, but that just felt SO right!" (any fan of daredevil would laugh)

Batman and Captain America are pretty much evenly matched. Cap has a physical advantage because of his metabolism, but I believe that even though Cap is a brilliant and learned individual, Batman has more knowledge he can use in a fight. Batman knows everything, apparently. In Marvel vs. DC, they were evenly matched, but Cap slipped in the sewer or wherever and Batman rescued him. A default victory for the Bat.

yeah that amalgam book rocks!!!
in the crossover they just block the shit out of eachothers punches kicks and chops until they both figure eachother out but batman says to himself 'we're matching eachother stroke for stroke but he has a slight edge', or sommin like that.

Captain America would win i am fan of both comics and i would have to say the captin would win.

Batman did defeat Cap in the DC vs Marvel comics, though they aren't the best written books in the universe.

This would be an even fight, they're both incredibly incredibly well trained fighters who can take on any super powered baddies even without super powers of their own. I like both characters, but Batman always has enough tricks up his sleeves to take down anyone and I think Cap would be no exception.

I think cap takes it. He's been everywhere and done everything! I prefer bats as a character but he wouldn't use anything but his fists and feet against cap coz he's very macho and would want to see if he could beat him.He'd use batarangs at most to counter the shield(in someway) but toe to toe just fighting, the super soldier takes it. believe it or not, cap IS stronger and faster.Cap lifts 8oolbs and bats prob only lifts about 500lbs absolute max. regardless of anything else, thats a huge strength advantage.

Batman is smart enough to trick cap. On making him over confident. But Batman would beat the krap outta Cap.

Bats may win, but it'd be far from a crap kicking on either one's part.

^ i agree. good fight, almost a stalemate, but there'd be 1 winner in the end.

cap wins through his attitude too. He will never stop until he makes America the country he knows it can be. Bats has a negative attitude and doesn't have as much all-american never say die spirit as cap. All this from a Brit!!

I figured I would get some interesting ,provocative posts on this thread after I started it last fall. My heart is still with Batman. Batman is a soldier but he's not the same kind of soldier as Cap. Bats is an urban soldier. // There was a time when Cap clearly had a physical advantage over Batman. That was during the early '70s when Cap achieved super-strength via a serum injected into him by The Viper. Other than that, his physical abilities have been on the same level as Bats' talents. Both soldiers have lifted heavy loads at good power-lifter levels. // Like Cap, Batman wants to see America get better. Yet , Bruce Wayne has experienced something that Steve Rogers never experienced--losing both parents to criminal violence at an early age. Bruce actually saw that and that experience made him destined to become the living symbol of the American Reality.

i agree with you on this one. cap's condition isn't attainable on training alone. so cap is a somewhat mutated human with some of the best training in mortal combat skills. take away cap's sheild and all of batman's arsenal and i think cap would eventually kick his ass coz although bats had experience fighting without his weapons, caps still has a lot more experience fighting with less weapons.

First of all, Captain America does not beat Batman in the latest crossover; they're evenly matched.

You folks might not know this (in fact, I assume that you don't, since none of you brought it up), but Batman and Captain America fight on at least one occasion other than the two crossovers that have been mentioned. It's elseworld, but the only difference I saw was the time period--it was set in the WWII era. You can take it for whatever it's worth.

The result of the battle? A draw. They were so evenly matched that Batman actually declaired the battle to be "pointless." However, they were fighting in their civilian garb--no utility belt and no shield--and neither of them knew the other's identity. The battle ended when Batman deduced that the man he was fighting was Captain America.

The problem with the fight is that Captain America is to much of a nice guy. Batman seems to be meaner and will go to any means to win. If Cap got pissed and fought ruthlessly, I think he wins. Especially if there were no weapons involved.

It was mentioned before that Batman has fought deadlier villians,,,,,I dont agree with that comment. I dont want to list a bunch of villians but the Red Skull, Dr. Doom, Zemo, Thanos with the infinity gems, etc,,,all seem to be fairly deadly in my opinion.

As for Batman being more prepared than Cap,,,,i've never seen any hero more physically or mentally ready than Cap. Batman would also fit into this category. Both heros have the mentallity that they refuse to lose. It would be a great brawl.

WOW!great analytic skill!!!2 thumbs way way up!

The whole point of Cap being the perfect human specimen is that he is unnattainably perfect. not even through all the training in the world can anyone, anywhere reach the peak of human potential, not even Batman. Cap is as perfect as he can be,otherwise there'd be no point in inventing super-soldier serum would there?!They could just make some people work out for a few years. He IS faster, stronger and more agile than bats and is just as good a fighter. He's also just as savvy and tough willed. Bats physical strength is closer to Daredevils(dont argue with this, its been discussed on another bats forum and thery're the same strength) which is prob about 500lbs maybe 600lbs given that I've seen DD lift 400lbs easily and bats is prob the same, I've never seen bats actually do anything as strong as the stuff I've seen DD do(like tip a car over on its side) but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Cap is stronger than these two and much beefier(DD 200lbs,bats 210lbs,Cap 240lbs!), and can lift about 800lbs. Cap IMO would win but the crossovers never portray cap's edge over bats for some reason.Although in the recent JLA/Avengers crossover, they blocked a few shots from eachother (but cap landed slightly more) and then bats deduced that ' it's conceivable you could beat me captain America but it would take a very long time, would you rather do that or find out who the real bad guys are?'Of course cap had thought the same thing.
Both great fighters and great detectives!

Was capttain americas super soldier programe orchestrated by Weapon Plus??

And this scenario was, of course, sans prep time.

And do not get it twisted. He did say that "it is CONCEIVABLE you could beat me." That is not to be interpreted as "Captain America, you WOULD DEFINITELY beat me."

They are, however, very evenly matched in many areas.

yes, Captain america was the ultimate success of Weapon I

In a fight between Cap and Bats, would result in a tie. Because of the fact that this battle has already happened. They are evenly matched

I absolutely agree with this. why would weapon x invent a serum that would just be the equivalent of working out a lot. besides, batman had a lot of training and a lot of working out... caps had a lot of training, a lot of working out, plus he got that serrum. don't tell me that batman had better training unless you can prove it. remember that caps was a soldier and probably had the best mentors they could find.

True about the prep time( I assume you are counting in Bats' favour) but remember Cap could prepare a pretty good battle plan too. He's a super-soldier!

I DO interperate Bat's saying that Cap(or anybody) could conceivably beat him as him really thinking that they will(IMO).He NEVER says anything remotely like that. He's too proud stubborn, confident.

As a rule, he never wants to end a fight without defeating his opponent. What do you think he should have said? "It's obvious I'm going to kick your ass anyway, so why don't you just cut it out and we can work together"?

Even Batman is more diplomatic than that.

Yes but my point is, he is never that charitable in comparing a rival to himself. He didn't have to say anything like that at all - but he did, because IMO, he was gobsmacked. You've read the said comic by the way?

I've read it, althoughI don't own it. Honestly, I skimmed through most of it; I don't know much about Marvel, so it was sort of pointless for me.

just making sure you saw that short 'non-fight' between the 2 men in question. It was well done I thought. As for the whole comic.It was only worth a skim anyway mate.

This is no end-all. Black Panther has less "formal training" and would kick the Sunny Delight out of Cap's ass. Training? Yes, soldier training. Some martial arts as well - yet Batman was trained by ***the best*** martial artist in the DCU. This means nothing...?

"Perfect human specimen." Mmm, with "super serum." Kind of diminishes his stature as the "perfect human specimen," no? Batman is Cap's equal (or superior, depending) with **no serum.** Hmmm.

>>I DO interperate Bat's saying that Cap(or anybody) could conceivably beat him as him really thinking that they will(IMO).<<

Not worth either of our time to stubbornly argue semantics, so I will settle by saying that I did not read it that way. Sounds as if Cap has a 50/50 chance of beating Batman, in my opinion.

And Batman has been "that charitable" before. Now perhaps it would be a bit of a stretch to say that is the norm; however, have you read the "Prometheus Unbound" story arc wherein Prometheus literally beat Batman's ass?

Fair points Never. I did read it that way but I'm sure I could be wrong.I'll go 50/50 too.

Now back to the Panther. I have a comic called 'contest of champions 2' I think! it's a tournament between Marvel characters. Cap beats T'challa but only coz t'challa was not as professional as cap and couldn't get over the fact that he was fighting his friend. It intrigues me. Black Panther could own all these peak human fighters(cap, bats, DD) possibly. Doesn't he have enhanced strength,speed, reflexes,stamina?as in beyond human? Educate me guys!Go!

Never, I love to read your inputs and I know your way ahead of me when it comes to up to date things, but I have to disagree on this one. Black Panther is one of my favorite characters and I have alot of his older series and such but I dont see him whipping Caps even with the enhanced strenght and reflexes of a cat. I love the character, but I feel that Cap has taught him a tons (leadership skills with the Avengers, although T'Challa commands Wakanda, prepeartion for a battle and probably fighting skills). I dont know. In my opinion, the Cap is superior. I just couldnt see him losing to BP. I need your intake because I havent followed the new series.

+++I also think that the whole technology aspect is a cop out. Throw away the shield and get it on. Just fists.+++

Mmm, let me ask this - have either of you read Black Panther lately? Christopher Priest's Black Panther. He was wicked back then, but now? Whew.

No, thats why I asked. What did they do to the Panther that made him so bad now? From the sounds of things, they "Wonder Woman'd" him and made him powerful enough now that he cant be ignored. I can understand a book that is well written and allows you really understand the character, but please dont tell me they have T'Challa throwing cars around with one arm now.

Tee hee... Kal-El, you said "gobsmacked."

Man, you crack me up.

Mate, gobsmacked is an excellent term.

Stomps Batman giving Batman prep time,,,,,,,,I never thought i'd hear this.

I remember a limited series (contest of champions) where Marvels heros were broken up into teams and each team had to retrieve an item before the other. In one of the books Wolverine had Black Panther pretty much at his mercy in a matter of seconds (the Thing threatened Wolverine and BP flipped him off of him while he was distracted). Hmmm,,,,,besides poor writing, something doesnt sound kosher here.

No argument here. That's why it's so excellent-- it cracks me up!

As for Wolverine putting Black Panther on the ropes, is there any confusion that that's how it would work? Black Panther may kick ass, but Wolverine is the original ass-kicking machine. In a no-holds-barred throw-down, Wolvie takes the trophy.

Agreed deffo!But can someone give a rundown of current blackpanthers abilities?

I guess its me. I think that Captain America could scrap with Wolverine even. I dont want to go into the whole who would beat who thing, Maybe i'm giving the good Captain too much credit. (I have a large run of Captain America and I think it caused me to be biased. He might not be the baddest, but i've never seen him afraid to throw down with anybody.)

True Cap is plenty brave!He has fear but he's always brave enough. He actually started on superman in the JLA/Avengers #3 this month.He said ' I'm not afraid of you, you're just another over-muscled fool, you know how many like you I've beaten in my time?' then they both stepped up to eachother and the reality changed.

Cap is no man without fear, but he is a man without too much fear!

Captain America shoulda slapped supe's and ran, hell i would have........then he would have cought me and I and woulda been like "It was wasnt me,it was Ralph Macchio the Karate kid!"
ok now im just babbiling..................

Captain America is a better fighter than Wolverine. Period. Batman is a better fighter than Wolverine. Period. BatGIRL is a better fighter than Wolverine. Period. DAREDEVIL is a better fighter than Wolverine. Period. IRON FIST is a better fighter than Wolverine. Period. I can keep going if you like...?

Re: Black Panther losing to Wolverine, that is simply a very misguided opinion.

Black Panther wears a suit made of VIBRANIUM. Know what the properties of this metal are? Research them. He also has claws made of "anti-metal" Vibranium. Guess what they do? Break down OTHER alloys - for example, ADAMANTIUM? His claws LIQUIFY metals.

Guess nobody knew that Black Panther defeated the entire Fantastic Four all by his lonesome?

WITH prep time ANY Black Panther vs. Wolverine fight would be very ugly, very short, and very convincing...with Wolverine out COLD on his back, like he has been on so many different occasions already - or flat out DEAD. Black Panther could EASILY poison, flash-bomb, sonic, blind, pressure-point attack Wolverine - EASILY. He is simply the better fighter, and has TONS more resources at his disposal.

If anti-metal could liquefy type 1 adamantium, it would have been done already by Advanced Idea Mechanics or any other high-tech criminal organization. Before you grace me with another supercilious, puerile "LoL," try to allow for the possibility that even ignoramuses can stumble upon websites containing information on adamantium, vibranium, and anti-metal.
If Wolverine wanted to kill the Black Panther, a vibranium suit wouldn't protect him. Luckily, Wolverine isn't the type to kill other superheroes, or benevolent world leaders.
I don't know T'Challa's full history. If he's a better fighter than Wolverine, then that's impressive. Maybe someday he'll get some recognition and respect from all us ignoramuses with insufficient knowledge of comic book martial artists.

yeah Character's can get smacked around by people you would never expect........Darkhawk...........i mean wtf


wait arnt we talking about Batman vs Captain America? if there is a unanimos victor let me know, and maybe we should start a new thread about say fighting skill vs abilities.
example

Spiderman vs Batman thread, witch i belive should be moved or re-created here

>>This may be so, but you'll never see any of these characters smacking Wolverine around in any comic.<<

Characters of equal or lesser fighting ability have. The only reason one **might** not is they are either allies or are in other universes. Sabretooth has stomped Wolverine. And Cyber, iirc. And Omega Red. And Elektra. Black Panther would mop the floor with Elektra. Lady Deathstrike has sliced, diced, and buttered Wolvie's ass thrice. Black Panther would smoke Lady Deathstrike. Whether or not you agree is fine - Black Panther is simply on another level strategically. I am telling you what I **know** about Panther.

>>Misguided or not, all i'm saying is that the Black Panther was about three seconds away from catching six claws to the adams apple. He was done. Period.<<

That writing was about as shoddy as Wolverine catching Spidey off-guard - and probably just as old.

>>This didnt seem to be working when Wolverine almost killed him.<<

See above. It is no secret that characters are tweaked constantly - for example, Emma Frost's diamond skin. Contest of Champions is old...like, mid 80's I think it was.

Would you like a tale of the tape?

Wolverine strength: ~800lbs.
Black Panther strength: ~750lbs.

Intelligence? No comparison. Black Panther (scientist, degree in physics)

Tracking ability? Equal.

Agility/speed/reflexes? Black Panther.

Technology? Black Panther.

*shrug* Only thing Wolverine has an advantage in is healing factor (can be overcome and has been, especially via poison) and adamantium skele. Both of these "advantages" are able to be voided.


>>Possibly, but again, I think the resources and technology aspect is a copout. Heros that have all of this technology that cause a battle to sway in one direction usually use it for a purpose,,,,,,,they need it.<<

Not sure what you are saying here - seems as if you are at first disagreeing, then validating it. Yes, Tony Starks sans his Iron Man suit is...Tony Starks. And...? Not understanding what you are saying. Point is Black Panther is on another level strategically than Wolverine is. Batman would definitely lose against Flash sans prep time. With prep? Different story. That is my point - Black Panther has resources at his disposal which would incontrovertibly turn the tide of a whole host of battles in his favor.

LoL @ Wolverine killing Black Panther. Goodness, site is being overrun by fanboys? How the hell would AIM be able to appropriate enough VIBRANIUM which breaks down metal alloys considering it exists solely on WAKANDA (the kind that HE uses)? Duh, idiot savant? Ever considered keeping your mouth shut until you actually encounter a subject that you are knowledgeable of? Guess I will hear another peep on this forum in oh, 2008?

Whoops, forget about my inconquerable aversion to dumbasses.

LoL @ "I don't know T'Challa's full history" but I'm going to tell YOU about the new *Wakandan Vibranium composite that his talons are dipped in. LoL even more at relying solely on antiquated website information!

Thank God stupidity breeds antibodies.

*Pay attention.

Well, you just shot down any judgement of character that I had for you. Never, you are truly an @sshole. And to think that you made yourself look like a fuking moron over a conversation about the Black Panther of all things. Idiot savant indeed!

Whether it was me, you, Shakespeare, etc,,,,the shoddy writing your refering to was WRITTEN. It was written by a comic book writer too. Imagine that. I'm sorry that whoever wrote the series isnt the living defenition of "Mr. Know-it-all about comics" like yourself (man, that makes you cool), but i'm sure hes worried about your opinion.

One other thing,,,,if I were to ever meet you in person, you would need all the "prep time" that you could get. 'Nuff Said!

OOOOOOOOOOOOh sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-it!

how bout this thread:

tkitna vs. never

there is simply no such thing as better when it comes to superheroes.never~they all sacrifice dearest to them,wat is it that one has and the other doesn't that can make one seem "better"?

Fool. Captian has the whole american people behing him. Batman has alfred.

I'm sorry. I think I must have missed the part where we were asked who would win if Captain America and everyone who respected him faught Batman and everyone who respected him. How careless of me. And despite reading Batman every month, I also must have missed reading the comics where Batman loses the support of Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, all the other heroes who respect Batman (Katana comes to mind), the JLA, and the Gotham Police Force. Maybe I'm going senile or something. And at such a young age.

Still, captian america could kick his ass. people are always like "if batman had enough time to plan he could beat cap." bullshit. hell, gimme 5 years and bats money and i could beat batman. nuff said.

If I gave you five years, I don't think you'd have time to master even one martial arts discipline; Batman has mastered many, many forms of martial arts, and blended them together into his own discipline. And unless you're a born genius, you wouldn't have a prayer of ever becoming the type of stratagest Batman is. Not to mention being the detective he is. And Batman is one of the greatest escape artists in the DC universe, perhapse second to Scott Free. I wonder how long it would take you to master that particular area? Not to mention Batman's knowledge of chemistry, which is extreme. I could go on, but perhaps I've made my point?

I'd nuke the batcave.

You have access to nuclear weapons? I'm not not sure whether that's impressive or scary. And how many people know where the Batcave is?

Anyway, you could nuke Captain America's hide-out with the same effect, so it's not like this is some weakness unique to Batman.

Ohkay, if i had the money and reasources either cap or bats did, which i would need to be in this fight, i'd buy a nuke and that would be that, beotch.

That still relies on you knowing where the Batcave is. And it relies on you being willing to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent Gothamites. Are you some sort of psychopath?

Hello, my name is MADcap.

There's a difference between being mad and being murderously insane. And you still haven't told me how you're going to find the Batcave. And you've said you'd buy a nuclear weapon, but being rich and having the sort of connections you'd need in the arms industry to by a nuclear weapon aren't the same thing. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.

So? Okay, mr. nay-say, here's the lay out. Some higher being pulls Captian america and batman from thier repsective unvieses right as thier stooping some bad guys, right? both are totally unaware anf have absolutly no time to plan. they are told to fight, and they feel and urge come over them as though they want to kill the other. batmans moves are flashy and fun to look at, but no more that usless. sure, he has fighting traing and immense knowlege, but cap has delat like poeple much worse than bats, aka Dr. Doom, and won. batman wouyld use his batarang, gasbombs, ect, but cap has reflesxes way beyond that of batman. cap is fast enough to respond to bullets. and thier is no way batman can throw somthing hard enough to equal the speed of a bullet. so after he's done with his bat 'toys', cap throws his shield, batman is smart enough to duck this, rushes cap and they start fighting. eventually the shiled comes back, and batman is tangling ith cap, cap cathces it, and bops old brucey, making the K.O.

Batman has faught worse than Captain America and won.

You think Captain America is much faster and has much better reflexes, but that's just your opinion, and it has never been proven, at least as far as I've read. The editors of Marvel and DC obviously believe that they are almost exactly even, since both the fights between them that weren't decided by the fans ended in draws. Why should I take your word over theirs?

And Batman's moves are "worthless"? I'm sorry, but have you ever read a Batman comic in your life?

Incidently, Batman can catch arrows with his back turned. What makes you think he won't notice the shield coming back?

no, because he will be to busy getting his ass kicked by cap. And the ediotrs only made them even so the fans wouldn't get pissed off. and cap has dealt with far, far far worse than anything batsy has ever dealt with. And how do i know that cap has enhcanced skills? Pick up the marvel rpg, made by the editors of marvel. cap is clearly capacble of doging and blocking bullets, and is a much more capable fighter, being at maxium superhuman potential. *****. i gots my sources directly form marvel.

No. Batman loses to Judge Dredd. All sorts of people lose to each other in the recent crossover. If they're so worried about upsetting fans, why don't all the fights end in draws?

I get my information directly from Marvel, too. Or don't actual comics published by Marvel count?

Do you really have an acurrate protrayle of his powers in those comics, becuase i have his actuals limits and ablities right here in front of me. and you know why batman lost to judge dreed? becuase he has guns. and lots of 'em.

And the Marvel directory claims that Captain America has the abilities of an Olympic level athlete. Nothing about catching bullets there.

Batman lost to Dredd in a hand to hand fight that lasted for almost the entire comic. No guns involved.

HA! i never said anything about cathing bullets! just dodging and blocking via shield! suckaduck, and batman dosn't use guns.so it don't matter anyway. anyway, captian america can beat batman in a striaght on fight.

Well, Batman dodges bullets too.

I'm not saying that Batman would win, but I think it would be closer than you're making it out to be.

And in a sense, I don't think it even matters who would win in a "fair fight." Batman has never lost a fight because he was concerned about being fair...

Originally posted by Gregory
And the Marvel directory claims that Captain America has the abilities of an Olympic level athlete. Nothing about catching bullets there.

I must correct you there Greg. Batman and others like Daredevil, Black-widow other non-powered(not including senses) are Olympic level athletes and gymnasts/acrobats but Cap(as I keep saying) is and I quote Marvel Encyclopedia ' stronger, more agile and has quicker reactions than the best Olympic athlete', and I as I also keep saying has a level of physical conditioning unattainable by training alone(but with super-soldier serum and bombardment of 'vita-rays' followed by vigorous physical training and strategic martial training).

My mistake. But how do you know that Batman is only Olympic level? Is it published anywhere?

big thanks to Spider-dan for this info.....

http://www.dcuguide.com/Who/Batman_Bio.htm

and here is cap's.......

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/c/captainamerica.htm

That's a fair point actually.Not too sure. Even if not as fast as the fastest sprinters or as strong as the strongest lifters or agile as the best gymnast/acrobats, Batman and probably Daredevil are certainly better at all than anyone else could be(except cap IMO). They'd be better decathlete's than any certainly. Sorry for being os technical, I'm a sports enthuseast too.

Well there's certainly one thing cap definitley has over bats looking at the directory link(thanks Venomfan via Spider-dan) is stamina given that his body doesnt produce lactic acid, which basically means his muscles will never ache so fatigue won't set in at all. Given that they are so evenly matched, and neither has an obvious edge, Cap would def win IMO because bats won't be able to take him down early and Caps slight edge in Strength,speed, agility and of course weight(240lbs to 210lbs is alot for two guys the same height and prob confirms caps strength advantage given they are both as strong as they can be for their size: it says cap can press 800lbs so bats can theoretically lift 120lbs less than that coz cap is 15% heavier than bats and 15% of 800 is 120 meaning bats can press 680lbs on a damn good day!This assuming they are as strong as they can be for their weight and I believe cap is stronger for his weight as well anyway). That clears up my opinion of who is a better athlete-the Captain! The edge in fighting skills needs to be far more than it is in Batman's favour to compensate for the disadvantage in size and strength and IMO it isn't.Bats is the best crimefighteradn detective the world has ever known and ever will know but he can't beat up Captain America

batman just cant win he give a good fight but peak human stenth just wins it. also they ahve foughten be for captain won

batman

Actually, Batman and Cap fought in DC VS Marvel and Batman kinda won.

that was van voted. they ahev foughten in the realy comic and batman him self stated that captain america had the edge and would soon win if they kept fighting

That was in Avengers Vs. JLA.

They did that cause they did not want any clear cut winner.

No, Batman did not "kind of win" because he basically said "it is CONCEIVABLE that you can defeat me after a very long fight."

There WAS no fan vote for that crossover.

captain will win in the end.

Batman vs. Captain America

here this is quite good and only 3 votes in ithttp://www.electricferret.com/fights/capbat.htm

captain wins thsi one batman has already stated that in the end captain woudl beat him

I dont normally like that site, but thats the way the fight should have ended.

Dude, Captain America has been genetically altered, enhanced with the super-surum. Batman is a tough dude that worked his way up to the pinnacle of physical strength. Bruce Wayne is self taught right? Captain America was trained by the best the military has to offer. I think Captain America would edge out this fight, his acrobatic, fighting skills are a littler better fine tuned then Batmans, just because it comes more natural to him from the super-surum. Thats my opinion on Bats vs. Caps.Caps winner

ok, could we all agree on whether or not to include the arsenal or not? becoz if we're including all the gadgets, your talking about gazillions of hardware against one,uno,unary,solitary,single,lonely shield. i don't think its fair coz caps doesn't have the kind of money bruce wayne does. so im gonna base my vote on just an all mortal hand to hand combat. batman's genious iq don't mean jack sh*t during the fight coz you don't really solve equations in a real fight. tactical skills don't really count if your opponent won't give you enuf time to think. the main components to winning a real street fight is physical condition (caps), instinct (both), fighting skill (both), experience (caps), aggression (?), and control (batman?). so im putting my bet on caps.

Not forgetting anything, just trying to match the heros for what they are. Batman has a bunch of gadgets yes. Captain America has a sheild, obviously with all Batmans gizmos, he can win the fight. Batman could get in his batmobile and run him over. Their thats one way. But anyway the point is, you put Batman and Captain America in a room, and have them fight each other like Neo was fighting Morpheous. Who is going to win. I believe Captain America will come out on top. That is in a hand to hand combat deal without weapons of mass destruction...lol

superdarrly just dislike wolverine that all. batman and captain is a close fight but like batman has admitted in the end captain will win

the hulk was a fan vote and it was very very stupid It was amde bye dc righters it was brobly one of the stupest things I ever read

made I mean

Emm im sure cap and bats are on the same physical level as that serum only enhances the human body to its peak physical condition wich is exactly wat bats has done over the years with fighting styles and basicaly pushing his body as far as it can go.
The only difference between them physicaly is that cap got it done in like a minute with the serum where as it took batman a lot of years training.

well the syrum makes it so Cap'in doesnt get tired, his muscels dont produce that enzime anymore. so if the fought for 4 hours straight Cap's is still top form.

but then again bat's has his toys..................

yea ok.
Do u mean that acid stuff u get if u dont stretch before u do extreme execise?? And the best way to get rid of it is to have a freezing shower. Or after people to marathons they sit in baths of ice!!

Dude I don't dislike Wolverine, I really liked him before I began chatting on this forum. As soon as I joined I saw Wolverine vs. Living Tribunal and I laughed, snickered, and giggled. I like to see Wolverine in fair matchs thats all. But, anytime you put Wolverine vs. Galactus, Wolverine vs. Superman, Juggernaut, anyone that over powers him, I"am going to make him look foolish in the fight. And clown him becuause of how outclassed he is. But, with all that having been said I still like Wolverine.

Now about this Batman vs. Captain America chat. Batman with all this gadgets and toys, he could just run over Captain America with his Batmobile. Batman without all his gadgets, Captain America is superior genetically, because of outside enhancments.

Fight could go both ways depending on who wrote the story and with what weapons were involved or not involved. I call it a tie.

I like that, run him over in the Batmobile....lol Or with a Batcycle, or with a Batplain. Batman has to many high tech cool gadgets. Smart guy Bruce Wayne is.

Batman needs to go twisted metal style on Cap's.

to the BatMoped?!

Dun Dun Duuuuun!!!!
http://www.mach-flyg.com/eaaflyin2003/fullsize/moped.gif

Twisted metal!! i loved that game on the ps1, dont like the new ones lol

juggy mgth be abelt o ebat wolverien but it far from a easy fight for him if u seen the new noval for x-men uncaany wolverine and juggy have a huge fight and there abotu equal in it. any ways like batman has said captain would win in the end