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Coz you know it was gonna happen. So who is it?

State reasons. None of this "but one blow from Mjolnir and it's lights out" BS. We are talking about Doom here.

-AC

thor would win

thor is a god for one. he is stronger he is faster he has an awesome weapon. he is the same in durability and energy. he is smart but that asset is to often used in fights but it has little to do with combat.

Doom, because he wouldn't lose to someone who only brings fighting ability and pure power to the table.

Forget Thor, bring on all of the Avengers, Dr. Doom would still come out on top.

hahahahahahahaah whatever

ok Iron fist he would win

Forget the Avengers, bring on LIVING TRIBUNAL!! WOOOT!

"Forget the Avengers, bring on LIVING TRIBUNAL!! WOOOT!"

Let's not go too far...

He actually would beat Thor. Think about it.

This is what I mean about Doom man. He has WAYS to combat everyone. He would never fight the same. Thor would come in swinging and Doom would manipulate and out think him.

As for the Avengers, can anyone give me the name of the man who stole and hijacked their impenetrable mansion?

3 guesses...

-AC

how would he think with his brians on the from thors hammer.

thor is not dumb

thor is smart in battle not in books.

If you can tell me why or how Thor would get close enough to Doom to do that then I'll answer your question.

If you can tell me how the hammer would smash his head in when a blast from Thanos WITH the gauntlet didn't even get through the armour, I'll answer your question AND give you a digi-cookie.

-AC

have you ever smacked a bell? that is what will happen to doom.

I hope everyone realizes my last couple posts in this thread were jokes...

Thor would give Doom problems, but Doom has defeated GALACTUS, turned his ship into energy absorbed it, and beat his ASS. Thor is troublesome, but nothing Doom can't handle.

As for the entire Avengers thing, Doom would just be overwhelmed, considering the Avengers have like 300+ members.

L.T. could just blink Doom out of existence...unless Doom got his hands on T.H.O.T.U. which I believe Doom can be capable of doing.

"have you ever smacked a bell? that is what will happen to doom."

I doubt it severely. Again, answer my first and second questions.

-AC

doom was trying to get his hands on the heart of the universe, but failed to do so.

i also think thor could win this battle. he isn't as dumb as people might think of. he can do many things with his hammer. doom is smart no doubt, but there is no blast, or plan that doesn't have a flaw or that can't be absorbed.

doom is to big headed thats his flaw and thor would exploit it

"i also think thor could win this battle. he isn't as dumb as people might think of. he can do many things with his hammer. doom is smart no doubt, but there is no blast, or plan that doesn't have a flaw or that can't be absorbed."

Thor is smart but this is Doom. Could Thor be consider on intellectual par or above, to Reed Richards? No. So I again ask you, how could Thor get close enough to Doom, who prepares for anyone and everyone, to do damage. As that is the only way he could do so.

As for Doom's actions in "The End", he went about it on his own and came closer to succeeding than all of them. In the end Thanos ended it himself, he wasn't defeated. Doom came close to not even giving Thanos the chance. Granted he was defeated but only by an Egyptian Phenom with The Heart in his power. Thor is toast.

Doom is justifiably big headed. Tell me who has hijacked the Avengers mansion, Stolen Galactus' ship, Surfer's powers and board and also the Beyonder's powers? No one, that's who. And this is the man you claim Magneto and Thor can beat? Never.

-AC

Question: Couldn't Thor use his hammer to teleport right next to Doom and smack him?

i think it would be a stale mate

Regardless of that bit of Thor based hyperbole, he is nothing compared to the power levels exhibited by the Beyonder, indeed Thor was present during that whole thing.

Hyperbole ? Where exactly did I exaggerate ? Please enlighten me. Everything I said about Thor is true.

I wouldn't go so far by saying Doom defeated Beyonder, because in the end, he lost. Plain and simple, he lost. Do not argue about this.

Doom was very lucky during the whole Secret Wars thing : not only he had amazing technology at his disposal (technology NOT built by him, he only used it), he also was lucky that he could use Claw to try to attack the Beyonder. Thanks to the energy he stole from Galactus he could transform his armor in something that could absorb the energy of the Beyonder.

And still he got his ass kicked. And when he was more dead than alive, he surprised the Beyonder with his willpower, and obtained his powers.

And even with the powers of the Beyonder, he eventually lost, because Beyonder was no dumb ass either. He used Claw, stole back his powers and sent Doom into oblivion.

Now who defeated who ?

"I wouldn't go so far by saying Doom defeated Beyonder, because in the end, he lost. Plain and simple, he lost. Do not argue about this.........Now who defeated who?"

Doom defeated The Beyonder. Beyonder won in the long run but Doom overcame him. Again let me point out that Doom, when you break it down, is just a normal man. Most superhumans and psychics out there couldn't do that to The Beyonder.

"Doom was very lucky during the whole Secret Wars thing : not only he had amazing technology at his disposal (technology NOT built by him, he only used it), he also was lucky that he could use Claw to try to attack the Beyonder. Thanks to the energy he stole from Galactus he could transform his armor in something that could absorb the energy of the Beyonder.

And still he got his ass kicked. And when he was more dead than alive, he surprised the Beyonder with his willpower, and obtained his powers.

And even with the powers of the Beyonder, he eventually lost, because Beyonder was no dumb ass either. He used Claw, stole back his powers and sent Doom into oblivion."

He stole the energy from Galactus. Because he can. He is smart enough to think up a way to do so. He manipulated someone into attacking Beyonder, because he can. He surprised someone who is supposedly omnipotent. That goes in the Guinness Book Of Amazing Feats if you ask me.

This is why I vote for Doom. Because noble or not, honour wont get you to the finish line in most cases. Doom is a sly, tricky, intelligent man. He doesn't NEED to brawl. Coz he can outsmart Beyonder and Galactus. He can manipulate. Thor is smart but he cannot outsmart Doom and if it came down to brawling....well......how would it come down to brawling? Doom knows of Thor and Thor knows of Doom. Doom likely has a book written on him, his powers and his weaknesses. Thor on the other hand probably doesn't know the extend of Doom's actual power.

-AC

By implying he is above or equal to the Beyonder as an opponent to Doom, which is not even nearly true.

basically if thor could get semi close to doom the fights over, but i wouldnt be suprised if doom outsmarts thor, and doesnt allow a close battle to take place.

I believe he would just keep distance and find a way to fight without getting hit.

-AC

i think thor has enough battle experience to get close

I don't think battle exp alone is capable of getting past whatever Doom would use to block him. Coz Doom wouldn't use it if he thought Thor could possibly get through.

-AC

this is like that batman vs. superman crap. dr. doom wins with preptime... damn that preptime. if doom knew who thor was in advance before their fight thor would be in a lot of trouble. but what if thor also knew what doom was capable of? thor is not stupid you know. but with preptime id still give the fight to doom. but if we're talking about a random fight in the street i don't think doom has much of a freakin chance against thor.

the battle goes to thor. doom wins the war.

"if doom knew who thor was in advance before their fight thor would be in a lot of trouble. but what if thor also knew what doom was capable of?"

Who actually knows what he is fully capable of though? Nobody. And Doom knows who Thor is and Thor knows Doom. I believe and am willing to bet Doom knows more on his opponent though.

"thor is not stupid you know. but with preptime id still give the fight to doom. but if we're talking about a random fight in the street i don't think doom has much of a freakin chance against thor."

Random fight in the street, Doom has no chance? Do you people think Doom walks around in his sweats and Nikes or something? Damn man.

Doom is ready all the time. There'd never ever be a random meeting with Doom coz he always knows where he's gonna be and why.

-AC

i think doom is overrated. he always seems to have the exact gadgets for the exact events at the exact times. everyone expects doom to be ready for anything... that's crap. above all else he is still human. and my 'walking in the street' statement was not to be taken literally.

doom is ready all the time??? damn, you make it sound like he's a freakin telepath. like i said, without prep time doom has no chance in hell to defeat thor. yes with proper planning and everything i agree that doom has a pretty good CHANCE on defeating thor. but please... do not tell me that crap about doom being ready all the time... coz if that was the case then the fantastic 4 would never have been able to thwart mr. victor von doom.

"i think doom is overrated. he always seems to have the exact gadgets for the exact events at the exact times. everyone expects doom to be ready for anything... that's crap. above all else he is still human. and my 'walking in the street' statement was not to be taken literally."

Overrating and him actually being THAT good to the point of having everything he needs at the right time are two vastly different worlds. You not LIKING that he is always armed and equipped is another also. He is still Human which is one thing I always use as a PLUS. He whoops and outsmarts all these people and he's just human. The street thing might as well be literal coz in his suit is all he needs and he always wears it.

"doom is ready all the time??? damn, you make it sound like he's a freakin telepath. like i said, without prep time doom has no chance in hell to defeat thor. yes with proper planning and everything i agree that doom has a pretty good CHANCE on defeating thor. but please... do not tell me that crap about doom being ready all the time... coz if that was the case then the fantastic 4 would never have been able to thwart mr. victor von doom."

Like I said, why would you need preptime when you know about your opponents before you meet them and have everything in your suit to deal with them? Doom being ready all the time and his ability to FINISH plans are again two different issues. Doom is always ready with anything, he was ready to take the Beyonder's powers. He did so. He was ready to take Galactus energy and ship. He did. The fact that Doom's only scientific rival (who also leads a team of exceptional superheroes save for Invisible Woman) can thwart his plans, isn't a shameful fact. They don't even thwart them really. Doom is never really thwarted, he is the epitome of retreat to fight another day. Which he does, to success.

-AC

-AC

Doom wins this one. "Thor is smarter than most think he is" is still utter and complete bullcrap for an arguement.

Dr. Doom would be like 7 steps ahead of Thor the whole time. He's too smart and plans too well to lose to Thor.

It's easy to say "they both could win." because we all know that. I'm picking one, and I say one on one Doom can defeat Thor.

Finally, we have a person besides VVD who sees sense. Arachnoid Freak also.

-AC

I'm not saying that one hit from the hammer and it's over but I'm sure repeated blows would do the trick. Thor is a god so whatever he does comes natuarlly to him, Doom wouldnt be able to cancel out his natural powers. And just in case everyone wants to talk about his force fields, all thor would have to do is summon the lighting and fry him with a million volts. and if that doesnt work get in as many blows as possible to softten him up then just teleport him to Hel and have Surtur deal with that ass

Random encounter between dr. Doom and Thor : Doom will eat dust. You may argue what you want, but he has virtually no chance against Thor, who is faster, stronger, tougher, more experienced and has a very powerful weapon (Mjolnir duh).

With the (overrated) preptime : 50/50. It could go either way. May I please be informed why lots of people think that Doom is unbeatable when properly prepared ?

If that's so, how come that almost every major hero has defeated Doom ? At least once ? Hmm ?

no matter how well prepped doom is he cant easily triumph over every one just like that. that type of thinking reminds me of the old school, batman cartoons from the '70s where he would have a gadget for every situation. and that's just plain foolish

I didn't imply a thing. Again, read what I wrote about Thor and try to find a mistake or an exaggeration. I wasn't comparing Thor with the Beyonder.

"no matter how well prepped doom is he cant easily triumph over every one just like that. that type of thinking reminds me of the old school, batman cartoons from the '70s where he would have a gadget for every situation. and that's just plain foolish"

Yeah but compared to Doom's suit Batman's utility belt is a lunchbox.

"Random encounter between dr. Doom and Thor : Doom will eat dust. You may argue what you want, but he has virtually no chance against Thor, who is faster, stronger, tougher, more experienced and has a very powerful weapon "

So basically as long as I don't prove you wrong with near enough factual evidence, we're good? Sounds fair. However, you keep assuring me that on a random encounter Doom will eat dust.

Allow me to point two things:

1) As said before, Doom is always in his suit. Never unprepared. He has all he needs with him.

2) Doom doesn't stroll to the convenience store for a bottle of "Acme Jack's Genius Suit Oil". You wont "bump" into him. He always knows where he wants to be or needs to be and why. When he's without anything to do, he resides in his castle. Which Thor isn't getting into without setting off something that will alert Doom.

"With the (overrated) preptime : 50/50. It could go either way. May I please be informed why lots of people think that Doom is unbeatable when properly prepared ?"

I was unaware Thor has the ability to outsmart a seemingly omniscient being and one older than our own universe. Just me though.

"If that's so, how come that almost every major hero has defeated Doom? At least once? Hmm?"

List these please. With method of defeat and situation in which they defeated him. I'm talking all the heroes you imply have beaten him.

-AC

True

Well, that's a strange remark coming from a person who never has explained me how exactly dr. Doom will defeat Thor.

I already mentioned some of the ways Thor could defeat Doom :
- Thor is waaaay stronger
- Thor is a better fighter
- Thor is extremely durable
- Thor is very fast
- Thor has centuries of fighting experience
- Thor can crush his armor with his bare hands
- Thor can summon the lightning (among others)
- Thor is no idiot
- Thor has an extremely powerful weapon

Satisfied ? Now, I'll ask again : how exactly will dr. Doom defeat Thor ? And try to avoid to mention the Beyonder (almost defeating Beyonder is no guarantee to win every other fight) and be precise. Just saying "Dr. Doom will find something" is too vague.

Facts please.

Not true. He's not a walking Swiss knife.

Will you please stop dragging Beyonder in every post ? What has that to do with Thor vs Beyonder ? Other fight, other opponent, other circumstances !!


Lol . Nice try, but no. I don't mind to discuss stuff here on the forum, but if you really think I'm going to summarize ALL the fights of Dr. Doom (or a robotic version) with the Fantastic Four, Avengers, X-Men... you're wrong.

You know what ? I was just making that up ! In fact, dr. Doom has won every fight ! Ever ! Never lost once !

Yeah right...

Its just the same as taking martial arts lessons. my sensei told the people in my class that If youre 5'9 165 and youre opponent is 6'11 300 no matter how many black belts you have you're not gonna win. the most you can hope to do is hurt him enough for you to get away.

its a little abstract but I feel the same prinicple applies in this situation, Doom could have book smarts coming out the ass, it still doesnt mean he can beat thor. I agree with the others give some specific examples as to why you think Doom would win other than he's always prepared

That's not necessarily true though. Bruce Lee must've been less than those proportions.

I know it was an analogy, but that's what analogies are for.

"- Thor is waaaay stronger
- Thor is a better fighter
- Thor is extremely durable
- Thor is very fast
- Thor has centuries of fighting experience
- Thor can crush his armor with his bare hands
- Thor can summon the lightning (among others)
- Thor is no idiot
- Thor has an extremely powerful weapon"

-True.
-Hand to hand, yes.
-Yes. No doubt.
-Of course.
-If he never got close enough to use it, wouldn't mean squat.
-Again, what makes you think Thor will get his hands on Doom's armour long enough to crush it?
-As I said before, the man lives in Europe. You think he has a lightning affected suit? Seriously?
-Thor Intelligence Vs Doom Intelligence is a bit of a mis-match.
-Doom has many extremely powerful weapons.

I agree with Victor. Should let this one go man.

-AC

Bruce Lee was like 145 pounds, and he never got into a street fight with someone who's 300 pounds. Actually, Bruce really didn't compete that much at all, he was mostly a celebrity.

Okay, I'll let it go.

Thor wins

The point is, put some 300 lbs fat moron against Bruce Lee and I'm not betting on lardo. Of course, weight and size can be a massive factor though.

Simpler solution.

The Blob VS Spider-Man.

Well then.

-AC

Didn't compete? wtf!? Bruce Lee owned 3 schools, and invented his own f*cking style of martial arts. Jeet Kune Do. He went around the country not only demonstrating this new martial art on other people, but accepting challenges every week. When he wasn't making a movie, he was fighting.

He did "fight" a 300 pounder. Well, close to 300 pounds, a man nearly twice his size. He demonstrated his new move, the One Inch Punch on him. Then he did his One-Inch Punhc on him, and the man flew about 6 feet.

martial arts are about technique. also what kind you do. bruce did jkd and that is far superior to karate. karate is a sure way to get your ass kicked in a street fight. do muay thai and bjj and jkd. back on topic thor kicks dooms ass.

Bruce Lee was the only person I could ever watch single handedly defeating a school of martial artists and believe it.

Back on topic.

Ahh theek Doom keeks Thor's ayus.

-AC

Boy...open your mouth when you quote me correctly.
I said "didn't compete that much at all" and that is a true statement.

Bruce proved at an early age that he was a world champion martial artist. I believe he was only like 18 at the time.

He didn't "compete" at a lot of martial arts tournaments, he "demonstrated" at the tournaments. He's never done the one inch punch in competition, he's only demonstrated it at tournaments and on TV shows.

Yes, he opened three schools, but that isn't competing....that's teaching.

Kareem Abdul Jabar, is not 300 pounds, yes he is 2 feet taller than Bruce, but he isn't 300 pounds, and those two never fought it out...they sparred and trained together. He didn't do the One In Punch to Kareem...he did it to a talk show host and got in trouble for "physically threatening him." And he performed it several times in demonstrations at Martial Arts Tournaments.

He could have very easily won the title of "Wold Champion" over and over again throughout his life, but instead of competing, he became a celebrity. He starred as The Green Hornet, and he spent a lot of time attempting to complete "the Silent Flute" except one of his business associates backed out. Later he was supposed to star in the series "Kung Fu" (except it was a different name) but later lost the job to David Carrdine who had no martial arts trainging what so ever.

He actually spent more time making movies, and perfecting his style than he did competing. So my statement stands correct.

Although it is well documented the celebrity lifestyle isn't what he was questing after.

Either way he was a great man.

-AC

doom is not always in his suit! don't tell me he takes a bath with it! who-kid hit the nail right in the head - if doom was so well prepared for everything why isn't he ruling the world right now? why is he beaten time and again? you can call it flea and fight another day but it sure as hell counts as a defeat in my vocabulary.

you guys better let this go... doom is not ALWAYS prepared for ANYTHING. as far as im concerned, the only basis you guys really have on backing doom is that he defeated beyonder... so please do tell me, how do you think doom is gonna defeat thor?

I was under the impression the fight wouldn't take place while Doom was in the bath.

Maybe that's just me, I'm old fashioned I guess.

If you can find where I said "Kareem Abul-Jabbar" OR EVEN "Lou Alcindor" OR EVEN "punched him during competition" I'll give you a cookie. No, I'll give you two. When someone is twice someone else's size, it means height or weight. The man he punched was at least 275, making him nearly 300. "Well, CLOSE TO 300 POUNDS"

Bruce Lee accepted challenges from any and every school he went to, to recruit students for Jeet Kune Do. It may not be an official world wide competition, but it's still competing. So your statement isn't true.

And don't call me boy.

Well, if Thor is gunna be cheap and barge in on Doom while he's ass-naked in a tub, then of course he'll win(Doom sure will be mighty pissed after that. I wouldn't want to be Thor for at least 10 years afterwards.)

Doom isn't ruling the world because HE DOESN'T WANT TO. He's said it before, and you'll probably see him say it again. Being king of your own country is enough work you know.

You guy's know who Bolo young is?

http://www.dstar1.com/images/gallerylrg/davewbolow_jpg.jpg

he was Bruce's spareing partner too, he could take any 300 pounder apart.....

dont watch bloodsport...thats a friggin travesty.


Baaaaaack to topic

Yea, I've seen him in a couple of Bruce Lee flicks. He's cool...cuz he's usually a villain.

and um...doom wins...back to topic...yea.

Lol, it would be cheap but it also would be funny . And I wouldn't be surprised if Doom had some extremely powerful weapon hidden in his rubber duck.

Im sorry but i just find it unfathomable that a mere mortal could thwart the will of a god

I defended Thor in this thread, but Doom can also win, mind you ! After all, he is the Greatest Marvel Villain, and that's saying a lot.

But unless he has some preptime (sigh), Thor wins.

thats like me having a lot of prep time to go up against Roy Jones

havin never been in a boxing ring before

Do you have magic powers, super-genius IQ, and futuristic technology that mosy people can't pronounce? no? then it isnt like you fighting Roy Jones.

bash me all you want mister(sob) I'm still going with thor and no one can change that

I thought that short guy was a really buff woman at first. What with the boobs and all.

he is a bodybuilding martial arts master

Yeah....and he looks like a really buff woman, too.

isnt he in his 50s now. the last movie I saw him in was double impact and he was looking pretty old

but he could kick your ass. embarrasing getting beat up by a dude who looks like a lesbian.

Indeed. But perhaps less embarrasing then actually looking like a lesbian myself.

buff woman hahahahaha?..........yea this is not like fightin roy jones at all...Thor might have the advantage in...um aging....but not in power and he is certainly at a ENORMOUS disadvantage in intellect....one on one....doom wins, rather easily

thor vs doom i say doom he has this way of coming out on top no matter who he is up against

lol. im not saying that thor would charge in on his bath. that would just be too morbid! i just wanted to point out that doom is not always in his suit.

"if doom was so well prepared for everything why isn't he ruling the world right now?"

Why isn't Apocalypse? Or anyone else? Coz villains are there to fail. If they enslaved humanity then what would be the point in anything?

-AC

That's a bit simplistic I think. Villains aren't ruling the world because mostly they are not half as smart, prepared or powerful as they think they are.

I gotta agree with Alpha on that...

Primary reason why Hulk would win against Juggernaut. One's the good guy, the other is the bad guy. Good is supposed to triumph over evil.

Well, I don't know if we can consider dr. Doom as "pure evil". In his own way, he's quite reasonable and not such a bad leader.

"That's a bit simplistic I think. Villains aren't ruling the world because mostly they are not half as smart, prepared or powerful as they think they are."

Well ok so Marvel's writers create a villain so smart and so flawless that he enslaves humanity and no hero on Earth or the Universe can stop him/her. What happens then? Things get shit. Coz the main part of the fun in the escapism itself is the battle in which Good triumphs. Or evil triumphs.

That is why villains nowadays don't try to take over "the world". It's too cliche. They just try to take over what they can. So if we're going by who is more successful in that sense. Let's see how many villains own and run their own country.

-AC

I agree you have made a good point, but still it doesn't explain why those so-called world-conquerors never or rarely succeed in trying to rule the world.

It's not only because "good must triumph and that's it !". It's also because they make mistakes, become overconfident and underestimate some strongwilled heroes who are not afraid to fight back.

I hate to sound like a tight wad but I think this thread should be over already. Just from a plain and simple point of view thor wins.........period!

yes^^^^^^^^^^

See, plain and simple is why you are wrong. Doom loves to use strategies that are far from simple. Unless Thor's IQ increases by 100, he won't win.

Lets not forget that Doom is sorcerer.

http://jerome.galica.free.fr/marvel/Avengers/thor/Thor02.gif vs http://jerome.galica.free.fr/marvel/Fantastic%20Four/Ennemis/Doom/Doctor%20Doom,%20the%20EVIL.gif

is this doom with prep time? coz if its without prep time, thor wins. doom would never have defeated cosmic beings and gods if he didn't have his precious prep time (which i think is tooooo overrated)

Originally posted by manjaro
Its just the same as taking martial arts lessons. my sensei told the people in my class that If youre 5'9 165 and youre opponent is 6'11 300 no matter how many black belts you have you're not gonna win. the most you can hope to do is hurt him enough for you to get away.



you are in the wrong martial art then

Originally posted by LGodamus
you are in the wrong martial art then

agreed...what was it united studios of self defense?

A man weighing in at 300 lbs and standing at 6'11" still falls down when you kick him in the back of the knee or snap it backwards. His floating ribs still break when you punch them and he still becomes severely injured or possibly dead when you strike him in the throat or temple. Whoever told you that is doing you a disservice.

not to even mention the chi applications of the well practiced martial arts.......a man of that size is still going to fall down when you hit him and his internal organs are pulverized to mush.....

Well, let's try to stay practical. Most people will never even see an application of real life ki, and the extremely impressive, or 'powerful' feats are usually done after concentration.

Yes, I've seen one.

it's still practical....even one with limited (well in ma terms anyways) practice with chi can assault with much more power than the body of the user would suggest them to possess......for instance...my teacher can inflict bone bruises while demonstrating a block, self defense, WHILE doing it in slow motion literally......he left bruises on one of our student instructers just by placing his palm on the man's chest to demonstrate the proper application for panther strike.....

You misunderstand me. While that's practical in application, it's not 'practical' for discussion, as most people will never be able to do that, much less ever see it.

so what are we talking here? like, people who just do martial arts a couple days a week just for a workout or hobby?...or what?

I've got people in mind who are simply in it for the self-defense. Something of the nature you described isn't something you'd be able to do without living martial arts. My Shihan has been doing martial arts for 20 years and yet he cannot do things of that nature.

Most people aren't Ryu, traveling the world in order to seek enlightenment and better themselves physically/mentally through perfection of martial technique. Exaggeration, I know, but you get the point, I'm sure.

yeah i understand you now..... though I don't think one nessaccarily has to "live kung fu" in order to apply that same type of capability (maybe at a much lower level as myself)....but I get what you mean....yes with a simple number of authentic self defense classes one should still be able to bring down a man of such stature unless they are incapable mentally or physically somehow...of applying them properly....

Unless they have a decent amount of training as well. Manjaro's master was right in a way: all other things being equal, the bigger, stronger fighter will win. But if strength and size was all that mattered, everyone would just lift weights all day.

well size doesn't equate to power for striking.....so many other facotrs do....but I get your point....

My tribute to Dr.Doom fans
members.aol.com/doomscribe/faq.htm

hahahahaha... you guys were ripping apart a post made in 2004.