A weird little glitch in the Padme dying and twins scenario

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Jedi Priestess

§pearhead
Perhaps Anakin catches up with them, sees that Padme's there and naturally assumes that the children would be hidden elsewhere, far away? I dunno, that's kind of a flaw, isn't it?

Jedi Priestess
If you assume that GL keeps his site up to date BIO wise Id say this was kind of a big flaw in what we've heard so far.

finti
the scene between Luke and Leia in the Ewok village in ROTJ also kind of blow away the scenario of Padme dying in EP III

Ushgarak
That's a bad assumption, JP. GL has little or nothing to do with keeping the site up to date and it has been wrong before- it is not a totally reliable source.

yerssot
can someone actually give the direct quote which states that padme will die after giving birth??

Master Kadub
I've been telling people for the longest that Padame doesnt dye in EpIII.
Because of the above....
Leia remembers her mother when she is young....
I doubt we see the twins up to the age of 2 yrs in EpIII, because
it just wont happen....
Now Luke may not remember his mother, because he was hidden
long before he had time....
Now I will say this.....it would make sense if Padame died on Alderaan
in EpIV.....
it would also make sense if a Padame double is seen being killed off, and she makes her escape with Leia...
then for the sake of future movies or books, Padame has moved off to some remote planet in the galaxy like Yoda did....

PVS
some have theorised that since leah is strong with the force,
it is possible that she could remember her mother even from the time
she was born. so that leah would be born first, padme would hold her
and they would have a moment. then she would feel luke about to come out.
during the birth of luke, she would die. thus luke not remembering her.

hey, its just speculation, but it could happen.

darktim1
who knows?

Jedi Priestess
hmmmmmm you dont think he has the say so abouyt what goes there? Thats kind of hard to believe considering how fanatical they are over there about their content. For argumetns sake say it was...

FFM
I don't think that info is up to date because it refers to Anakin as Obi-Wan's "apprentice" when it's been confirmed that he is a Jedi Knight. But Lucas can change anything at anytime so we won't really know until May 2005.

robakin
I'm not so sure that Padme dies, didn't the rumour start from super shadow!!

captainmidnight
i was under the impression that once padme takes obi wan to mustafar,anakin feels betrayed by padme,he force chokes her,and thats how the duel starts,now after obi wan defeats anakin he recieves help by organa and yoda and as they flee,padme begins to give birth and dies,luke of course goes with obi wan on tatooine,and right after organa flees from tatooine he is stopped by a cruiser and the troops see the baby and he tells them its his,he proceeds to alderaan and in the mean time anakin is told padme and his child are dead,he does not know there are twins....

captainmidnight
so i guess what i mean is that,according to a rumor is that obi wan never sends padme to organa,padme is the only one who knows were anakin is so he goes to find anakin padme sneaks on the ship,anakin and obi wan see padme enter the separist room on mustafar anakin feels betrayed,the duel commences...

Cowboyography
I actually think Padme died when Vader blew up Alderran.

cornponious
Ho Ho. I thought they were all apprentices (learners). wink

big grin


cornponious

cornponious
JP, I can't believe you started this thread after all that ballyhoo I went through! smile

You know that it doesn't matter what the official site says. Hell, it doesn't even matter what is said in the OT!


Heh.


corn

cornponious
There is no way that Padme can die RIGHT AFTER giving birth. In ROTJ, when Luke and Leia are talking at the Ewok village, Leia says (of her mother), "She was very beautiful, kind, yet sad."

If Padme only held Leia for a few minutes before dying, there is no way she could know that her mother was "kind".

But hey, why should that stop Lucas from creating another hole?

corncynicalus

Jedi Priestess
just where do you think I got the idea?

cornponious
I'm flattered. Happy Dance

By the way, are you nude yet?

corn

Jedi Priestess
eek! eek! eek! eek! you are SO bad.....

yerssot
still no quote which shows she will die huh?

Ushgarak
Gee, let's not have this Padme debate all over again- or if we do, use one of the existing threads.

JP, for absolutely certain, GL does not directly interest himself in the content of the databank on the OS. Entries in the Databank are made by people doing the best they can based on what GL has said so far. That being the case, if Episode III makes out the entry to be very wrong, expect to change soon after. This has happened before.

Jedi Priestess
Alrighty then. Imma take your word on this. wink

Sauron
Well she dies

And she cant die before giving birth

Proof enough wink

Altar[1stONE]
maybe she does die , from a certain point of view. Maybe when they say she dies in ep3 , it is ment for other characters to believe she is dead.

Ushgarak
Well, the point yerssot is making is that it is still not in any way confirmed that she dies on screen, complete with ROTJ 'issue'.

However, the indicators are still pointing towards this being what will happen, even though nothing is firm yet.

yerssot
using the moto "when you want something do it yourself" I was kind enough to go through all the sources and I'm stunned that some are so sure that Padme will die... NOTHING is said about it and the only related quote to this is:


from Pablo

this doesn't mean she will absolutely die

Jedi Priestess
SEE! it's possible I am NOT nuts! laughing

Darth_Nefarus
I guess the only "logical" way of looking at it is, since Leia is the offspring of Anakin, she is already endowed with the force so strongly that she could remember such events. I mean her grand dad is the force, I'm willing to bet if you were in the bloodline of the force you could easily remember that type of shit.

Ushgarak
That doesn't really work, else Luke would remember his mother, and he doesn't remember a bean.

There has been a lot of spoiler rumour about Padme's death as well, yerss. Again, yes, no confirmation at all but there is heavy indication that means we have to consider the possiblity.

davesmolo
Im just curious as to why no one thinks that perhaps Bail's wife or kin raised Leia...and that woman is who Leia remembers as HER Mother>

finti
because Luke says your REAL Mother, clearly indicating that he doesnt mean the adoptive one

Ushgarak
Exactly- people should take a moment to watch the scene again and listen.

finti
Think I will watch all of them again next week when my vacation starts..................damn looking forward to it allready

memphisbleekgb
i believe anakin is aware of padme being pregnant and assumes one child, being as any offspring from anakin would be a threat to palps(part of a quote from the original trilogy no plural to indicate more than one) so in ep3 he is sent to kill her but cannot bring himself to sabre her just throws her about with that choke and knocks her unconcious or something as a result giving her mild brain damage or cerebral hemerage enough time for her to explain to obi wan anakins whereabouts i believe birth takes place as an emergency as she is due to die at anytime and the recollections of leia and her mother is of her adopted mother the queen bail ORGANA's wife...just a thought

Ken Benobi
yeah, me too- will save a lot of misquotes and posts

Darth Cain
What no one is mentioning is that the mistakes or loopholes, if you will, are going to be fixed by altering the OT. I wouldn't be surprised if the scene with Luke and Leia in the Ewok village was edited or removed entirely. The hologram scene with Vader and the Emperor has been substantially changed. Lucas is probably going to fix continuity errors by conveniently changing already established movies.

matthewo07
Well, you can't say that those things are necessarily true, since we've heard these things and seen pics, we think they are true, and since we've heard that the luke/leia ewok village scene hasn't been changed i'll stick with that. I'm sure Lucas will think of some way to make sure that Leia will be able to remeber her mom. I've heard that the twins will be alittle under a month old by the end of the movie from tfn's just the facts. So i'm thinking we might imply that they aren't just born at the end of the movie, but being under a month old can still mean that they are just born, and no matter what, u most likely wouldnt remember things from then anyways. But who know, maybe leia can remember alot better than most of us, and maybe she will have grown up remembering seeing pictures of her and those stuck with her. You know that could be it, she remembers Padme alittle, but she also grew up and saw pics alot and that's how she remembers..but who knows..what ever happens doesn't really matter because they will still be good movies.

guiro72
erm, padme dying is supposed to be a SECRET. (shhhh). it's supposed to be one of the big shock plot points of the film, so why would they post it in the databank?....

for the record, i'm pretty sure at this point that she will die.

on the topic of leia remembering her mother, i think the "5-second-old-force-memory" theory is the strongest at this point. Lucas may change the dialogue in the rotj scene in future releases of the films, but if he hasn't in these new dvds, then refer to my first point.

Darth Cain
Just how much the OT has been altered, we'll know in September. I wish could remember where my friend found the audio clip, but that hologram scene now has very different dialogue in it. The voices were unmistakably James Earl Jones and Ian McDiarmid. Makes me wonder what else they've done to those poor movies......

memphisbleekgb
it is feasable that queen organa could be all of those things described by leia and the SAD part of it being the most important as the queen knows the truth of the demise of her biological father and that she is not truly leia's mother

Darth Cain
Doesn't Luke ask Leia about her real mother in that scene? I always wondered how he knew to phrase it that way. Maybe she told him she was adopted at some point in the past. There's a lot that's not explained in the movies.

Ghetto Goblin
now i have one question, i don't know if anybody answered it though or not.

i heard somewhere that when anakin turned into vader, there could be no more children born with the force. why would that be? how could that happen?

guiro72
yeah, you're right....i guess in the three years between ep IV and V they would have talked....they're all quite close by esb....

changes to the original trilogy for dvd:

the emperor vader scene darth cain mentioned above
boba fett now has new zealand accent
naboo in end celebrations of rotj
jedi temple and senate building added to coruscant in celebrations
jabba in anh redone
stupid greedo scene improved (technically anyway)
and my personal favourite: scream removed when luke falls on bespin

that's all i can remember at the moment....
the guy with the dvd didn't seem to think much more had been changed than that....

Darth Cain
I saw that, too. I have no idea where the person got that idea because I can't see some sort of announcement being made. Who would say that in the movie? Besides, Yoda tells Luke to pass on what he has learned..... He could have just meant Leia, but I doubt it.

guiro72
ghetto goblin, apparently that rumour was debunked......so everyone stopped talking about it then....i quite liked the idea, at least it was a big twist.....(by twist i mean radically altering the way we see the other films in the saga).....i want a few big twists this time....

forgot to add hayden as anakin ghost at end of rotj to the above list....

yerssot
and why would that be? someone saw there was only Luke as new Jedi in the OT? I would say that's cause people hate/dislike the jedi (they started the clone wars) and people don't want to acknowledge the force in their kids and don't send them over for training... not that they even can do that later during the Empire...

Ghetto Goblin
ohhh. ok, i think.

Darth Cain
Hey guiro72, this is off-topic and I apologize, but did they change the Stormtroopers' voices also?

If Padme dies, that chat with Luke has to be altered or it makes no sense. From the things I've been hearing about retroactive changes to the OT, I'm surprised Lucas even bothered to make Owen Luke's uncle.

yerssot
yes

guiro72
hey darth, well he did make c3po luke's brother....

i don't think they changed the stormtroopers voices, but as far as anyone knows they've stopped using jango as source material by anh....

Darth Cain
That's why I didn't think they needed to change the troopers' voices. The cloners didn't have Jango around anymore.... unless they used Boba. Hmmm.... clones of a clone, maybe that's why the stormtroopers are such bad shots- they're cheap knock-offs.
And guiro72, that's why I'm a little anxious about these OT DVDs. I think I'm glad that George isn't making Episodes 7-9; who knows what he'd do.....

yerssot
the soundfile they posted once did sound like Morrison doing the line in ESB though

guiro72
yerssot, if your source is good, add anything else you know about to my list....how good is your source?.....

Darth Cain
You're right, yerssot, that was him. I'm surprised no one else heard those.

guiro72
yerssot, it was morrison....

darth cain, yeah, it's the two sides of george duking it out, genius vs. senile old buffoon....but i think he's getting better as he goes along....maybe he was just rusty....or drunk....

Darth Cain
Nice. Can his two sides duke it out in a junkyard like in Superman 3? Waaaaay off topic but I couldn't resist.

guiro72
i don't want to imagine senile lucas' fighting style....some 3 stooges combined with a little light pant wetting....

Ken Benobi
Lucas could patch that hole easily enough by saying they agreed to be called his aunt and uncle for his protection, and since Lars had married his grandmother, they could be considered family in a way. The part I wonder about is if Owen is supposed to be the son of Shmee and Lars, or if Lars had him through a previous wife.

Seems to me Lucas would do better to make the current movies fit to the older ones, instead of going back and making corrections. But then he only has about 2 and a half hours to tell the story...

PVS
well, anakin was 8 when he left his mom,
and 18(?) in episode 2, so that would mean tha owen
was 10 years old at the most in ep2, so highly doubtful that shmi
is owen's mom.

guiro72
ken benobi, am i missing something here?....owen IS luke's uncle (or step-uncle, or whatever).....

it's one of the few instances where there isn't any hole to patch....

Jedi Priestess
actually it's been established that Anakin was 9 1/2 at the time of the podraces and 20 in ATOC

Ken Benobi
yeah guiro, I was saying more or less it would be hard to make him LUke's uncle since Anakin was an only child, and we were saying how Lars must've had Owen through another wife. And those thoughts are in context of changes Lucas might make.....(I hope he doesn't make any changes)

guiro72
i'm sorry to come off so argumentative, i'm saying this in a lighthearted vein (i really should start using those smilies).....

but owen IS luke's uncle....anakin becomes owen's step brother when shmi marries cleigg.....so owen is luke's uncle....just through marriage not blood, but i think it's still official that way....

what's to change?.....

Darth Cain
Yeah, guiro72 is right. Owen is Luke's uncle by marriage and two years I was kind of impressed by the cleverness of Lucas where that was concerned. Now, though, I'm worried about what seems to be laziness on George's part- "Well, if I can't make it fit I'll just erase the past....." (not an actual quote)

guiro72
i like that quote cain, it should be the tagline for a movie.....cronenberg could do it....

from the start of this prequels thing i stumbled on a fairly failsafe device to make sure my expectations didn't drive me insane....i don't question whether i enjoy the prequels or not (beyond a certain point - i ***** and moan like everyone else), but generally i just watch them without questioning too much whether i love them as much as the ot, and the payoff for me was that when i watch the ot again, i see them in a different light......it's a powerful effect for me - something i know like the back of my hand, word for word, that i didn't even watch or think much about for over 10 years, because there was nothing new in it for me....and suddenly i can see new things in it, new perspectives, new depths....

that was my safety net for being able to enjoy the prequels without driving myself insane.....now that lucas is changing the source material, that effect is being lost.....there goes my safety net.....

Darth Cain
Very good point, there. For the most part, I have liked these new movies but there is always a certain amount of, uhh, bantha poodoo I have to get past. Ep. 1: seeing real jedi fight was cool, Qui-gon was interesting- the Sith, too. But then there's that... creature who's name I don't want to mention. Ep. 2: Anakin's brash behavior makes sense, Jango is kind of good, the twist of who the clones fought for (best plot twist so far), but there's the "wacky" C-3PO scenes with the head-swapping. Lucas is conflicted on a mental level, it seems.

guiro72
it does seem that way....my perspective involved giving myself a ulterior purpose to watching them, much like you think of the money when your job sucks....stops me being too critical so i can enjoy the things i DO like in them......

agree with all your other points, the twist with the clones is pure genius, and the best bit is once you think about it, it couldn't really be any other way.....totally logical....the c3po scenes really annoy me as well....the humour in sw should be character based, those scenes were 3po doing "shtick", vaudville one liners....hey, remember chewie's tarzan swing in rotj?....that always p****d me off as well....also, this hollywood need to "lighten the mood" during battle sequences has really gone too far....i've never understood what purpose it serves, it just distracts from the drama of the moment and takes you out of the film....

the fart jokes in tpm are another problem as well....i can't imagine anything like that being in anh....

Darth Cain
That's those contradictory sides of Lucas: in ANH, he leaves in the stormtrooper bumping his helmet, but years later, old hack Lucas changes stuff that doesn't need to be changed. You can see evidence of that in Episode 1 worst of all: Anakin's mystical origin and in the same film bizarre pseudo-science to explain the Force which SHOULD have been left as a supernatural thing. The genius and the crazy old man struggling back and forth.

guiro72
aye, it's very confusing.....some thoughts....

some of the problem with tpm was to do with having children, he's hanging around with 3 year old kids all day so his frame of reference is what they enjoy and find funny.....

another problem is with writing backwards: "i don't want to have to trace the skywalker family line back further than anakin, it's too confusing and timewasting, so.....HE DOESN'T HAVE A FATHER AT ALL!!...brilliant!....where's my academy award?"....."but why wouldn't quigon just knock watto over the head, and run off with anakin AND shmi?.....must think.....oh, i know, he has an exploding microchip hidden in his body!....i'm on fire tonight!....".....

i always thought the midiclorian thing was like this as well, some plot point to be addressed in the future that he couldn't think of a better way to explain....thing is i get the feeling he's dropped that plot point now, and just left in the midiclorian bollocks.....

Ken Benobi
it's probably been said by a lot of people before me, but I think if he had kept Steven Spielberg on it would've been a good thing

guiro72
oh, i can't comment on this one.....i am a furious speilberg hater....i must bow out before i say anything....it's just that....no!....(must....(puff)avoid...(straining under intense pressure) conflict....).....

Ken Benobi
well, all of it aside, the original movies wouldn't have been what they were without him, and the new ones are definately different.....but they are Lucas's after all, as he has stated before

guiro72
i can't remember, what did spielberg have to do with star wars?....

yerssot
nothing at all, he and Lucas are good friends but Lucas would NEVER let him or any director touch the PTs

Ushgarak
(rolls eyes)

The Force IS a supernatural thing! The Midi-Chlorians are simply the symbiotic means via which people are aware of it. Why DO people read so much more into that than there actually is?

PVS
^^^^

give the man a cigar.

ush is absolutely right.

the whole point of midichlorians is to establish a rating system on who is powerful and who is not, to illustrate just how powerful anakin and yoda are.
not that i think it was all necessary...it could have just been the council saying "i can feel the force strong in this boy, stronger than anyone before...yadda yadda..." but whatever, it doesnt take the mystery out of the force.

guiro72
don't be rolling your eyes at me ush....i think you misinterpreted my angle on it.....

to me it seemed very much like forced writing, that called attention to itself (no reason for it to be there, so why go to so much trouble to include it - look at my other comments on the way that film seems to have been constructed).....

pvs's point is the first time in 5 years i've ever heard a halfway reasonable explanation for it....or any explanation for it at all for that matter....

yerssot
of course it's a bit forced... he needed to show people that Anakin was special

a simple "hey, this kid looks strong with the force" wouldn't pull it... now with the midichlorians, people know he has a potential bigger than Yoda

guiro72
yeah, well, like i said that explanation does seem okay to me now that it's been brought up....it just always seemed that qui gon could have been struck by something in anakin, decided he was the chosen one, taken him before the council with that claim.....then someone (even yoda himself), could have mentioned how unnaturally strong in the force he was, by sensing it....all of this is in the film already, and gets the point across....

it just seemed to me that the adding of the midichlorian thing was meant to lead to another plot point, because it seems like a convoluted, clumsy way to make the point if that's all it was designed to do....

but i get the feeling that if there was another point to be made, it's been dropped now anyway, so we'll never know...

i was just making a point of the working backwards writing style that seemed to be in effect for tpm, and i wasn't just lucas bashing either, because my point was how much better the writing's gotten after that film....

check that m. night shamayalan(sp?) film about the aliens for another example of what i'm talking about....

Darth Cain
The midichlorians were unneccesary, because Vader doesn't in ANH say"this guy must have a lot of those things in him" (trench battle). That was something Lucas came up with to further a point he was trying too hard to make about all life being interconnected. He had a big fascination with symbiosis when writing that it seems.
I just felt that giving any explanation of how Jedi use the Force kind of hurt fantasy part of the saga. Though I will say it fit with the older idea of force ability running through families.

guiro72
it's the old religion vs science debate....the midichlorian idea actually has some interesting ideas in it, but i much preferred the mystical approach myself as well....

it takes some of the sense of awe away from the films...

must sleep i think....

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