Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I wanted to find someone suitable for Omega Red but never really found a dead match so I chose someone fairly powerful in Havok.

Who wins?

Discuss.

-AC

omega is better all around so i think he has it.

Havok could destroy Omega if he played his cards right.

Havok

if havoc blasts him with his cosmic energy multiple times from afar maybe. but all OR has to do is play cheap and release his death spores into the air then its curtains.

Stop commanding us to discuss! WAH!

Is O-Red that guy they made to fight Wolverine, the one wolvie was scared of? He's like a wolverine powerhouse? Well in the last X-men Havok released a blast that leveled 8 immortals that were takeing the men out of X-men.
But in the Havok/wolverine series Havok unleashes on Wolvie and wolvie still gets him. If that is Omega i spoke of, then as much as Havok is my fav. character next to my new fav. Chamber, I think Havok would need superstrength and Plasma to win.
Omega wins

omega is better all around so omega wins

I would say Omega Red

Yeah I back Omega Red. Cool dude.

-AC

omega

Havok

I think you are talking about Cyber...

havok could destroy omega.

Damn straight. Havok annihilates.

Havok annihilates nothing! Omega Red could suck the life out of Havok with his tentacles, or use them for defense. Also he could secrete a pheromone into the air, which would either harm havok greatly or kill him. Go omega!

But it takes some time to release his death spores, and by that time, Havok has already blasted him to oblivion.

he could still use his tentacles for defense. Also he can shoot out his tentacles very quickly and drain life from the victim.
Also his strength level is class 10.
he has superior fighting skills btw.

But he cant shield his body in all places, right? If Havok uses full scale blast, he might hit him in vital places.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/havok16.jpg

http://www.sirenscall.org/havok/pg/xmen/15802.jpg

true, that is possible. But i would still ahve to go with omega

it might all depend on who gets draws first blood.

Havok wins

Havok blasts his head off, game over.

Havok better be 50 ft + away from Omega Red. If not, he loses.

I doubt it'd need to be 50 ft. Omniblast would destroy any deathspores released into the air... and the person releasing them.

I doubt those spores would affect Havok unless of course his taken by surprise, That and healing powers probably the only thing Omega Red advantage against him and would be nulled when using his powers at max output..

havoc

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I doubt it'd need to be 50 ft. Omniblast would destroy any deathspores released into the air... and the person releasing them.

Is this fight with prep? Why would Havok need to do a omniblast? And how would an omniblast destroy of the phermones thats in the air and Omega Red? I dont see it happening.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Is this fight with prep? Why would Havok need to do a omniblast? And how would an omniblast destroy of the phermones thats in the air and Omega Red? I dont see it happening. Why wouldn't it destroy the spores. Havok's blasts turn the air into plasma.

Originally posted by Roldz
I doubt those spores would affect Havok unless of course his taken by surprise, That and healing powers probably the only thing Omega Red advantage against him and would be nulled when using his powers at max output..

PLEASE tell me why the spores wouldnt affect Havok. Id really like to know. When Red releases the spores, Havok will be taken by surprise as is everyone else he does it to usually.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Why wouldn't it destroy the spores. Havok's blasts turn the air into plasma.

Does his blasts turn the air into plasma? I though the blasts themselves were plasma?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Does his blasts turn the air into plasma? I though the blasts themselves were plasma? He projects plasma but if released in an omniblast it would superheat all the air around him into plasma.

I'd imagine it's faster for Havok's plasma blasts to project than OR's death spores to diffuse.

Originally posted by moshtitan
Havok could destroy Omega if he played his cards right.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He projects plasma but if released in an omniblast it would superheat all the air around him into plasma.

I'd imagine it's faster for Havok's plasma blasts to project than OR's death spores to diffuse.

If he released an omniblast, i still dont see how hes turning the air itself into plasma. Wouldnt the blast just be the plasma?

Im not so sure about Havoks blast being faster. Red was able to use the spores to catch Nightcrawler while he was bamfing in and out. He was also able to project them far enough to catch a icesliding Iceman directly.

Originally posted by jrodslam
If he released an omniblast, i still dont see how hes turning the air itself into plasma. Wouldnt the blast just be the plasma?

Im not so sure about Havoks blast being faster. Red was able to use the spores to catch Nightcrawler while he was bamfing in and out. He was also able to project them far enough to catch a icesliding Iceman directly. Hmm... I suppose to your first point it would be a little bit of column A and B. To the second, Psylocke's beaten up OR by making him think he released his death spores, while she was standing right next to him, so Havok has at least long enough to let off a blast imo.

Theere no need to be in range. Havok can charge his whole body, his fist with energy. And if Havok is in range Omega Red is going to have problems.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hmm... I suppose to your first point it would be a little bit of column A and B. To the second, Psylocke's beaten up OR by making him think he released his death spores, while she was standing right next to him, so Havok has at least long enough to let off a blast imo.

Ahhh, the old Psylocke bit. Red didnt even try the phermones on her because it would have been to easy. True she did get the best of him briefly. He had her wrapped and could have crushed her, but chose to dialog and attempt the death factor. Even so, after the stab, he quickly recovered and was then ready to go at it again. Red didnt even initially do the spores. If he did, it would have been all over.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Theere no need to be in range. Havok can charge his whole body, his fist with energy. And if Havok is in range Omega Red is going to have problems.

They have to be in range of each other. It goes both ways. I know Havok can charge his body with energy. Just as Red may be in trouble if Havok was in range, Havok may be in trouble if Red was in range.

Carbonadium may not melt but the rest of him will.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Carbonadium may not melt but the rest of him will.

Hehe. Has havok ever melted a person that was unable to reforming? I am inclined to agree with you if Havok went that far and kept at it due to Reds healing factor.

Les not forget that Red could turn Havok into ashes as well if determined.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hehe. Has havok ever melted a person that was unable to reforming? I am inclined to agree with you if Havok went that far and kept at it due to Reds healing factor.

Les not forget that Red could turn Havok into ashes as well if determined. Yeahbuhwhat? OR has heat powers now?

I'd say it's a quickdraw, and Havok's powers would probably be faster than Red's and would nullify the deathspores upon contact.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Yeahbuhwhat? OR has heat powers now?

I'd say it's a quickdraw, and Havok's powers would probably be faster than Red's and would nullify the deathspores upon contact.

Heat powers? No. I guess its the decay powers. When Red was revived and the Death Factor was used, he completely drained the life force and energies of the members(hand) who revived him. He melted/decayed their skill off their bodies and you see the skeletons start to decay and crumble. From the iamage, it did look like they were burning. the clothes were left on the ground however.

Havoks powers may be faster than Reds. But for Red to catch a bamfing Nightcrawler with the spores alone is pretty impressive.

OR's badass. He kills most people without enhanced durability, some sort of superspeed, or a projectile/omnidirectional power pretty easily. I just don't see him being able to get Havok before Havok gets him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
OR's badass. He kills most people without enhanced durability, some sort of superspeed, or a projectile/omnidirectional power pretty easily. I just don't see him being able to get Havok before Havok gets him.

Weeeellll. He could have easily killed Colossus, Ironman(had Strak been in the suit), Wolverine, Maverick, Sabertooth, Nightcrawler, Daredevil, Psylocke, Iceman, Beast...pretty much the entire X-Men. I do think that Havok takes him if theres an open environment and they are far away from each other. However, with no prep and IF its in a city environment and they are within sights range, i think Red can pull it off.

I guee we'll have to agree to disagree. Im off to take baby to doctors. Be back soon.

this is a really cool fight, but i gotta go with Havok here. i think he can keep his distance from Red long enough to hit em with some plasma blasts pretty well.

I always thought that Havok should be written with being able to do more with his plasma powers such has have a plasma form like Iceman or Human Torch that would give him a degree of protection and flight...he would really kick ass then

Originally posted by jrodslam
They have to be in range of each other. It goes both ways. I know Havok can charge his body with energy. Just as Red may be in trouble if Havok was in range, Havok may be in trouble if Red was in range.

Havok needs only 1 second to make a blast which knocked a The Eight Immortals out. And he even held the Xorn's blackhole effect. I'll say Havok's feats and powers are more than enough to overcome Omega.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Havok needs only 1 second to make a blast which knocked a The Eight Immortals out. And he even held the Xorn's blackhole effect. I'll say Havok's feats and powers are more than enough to overcome Omega.

Its true. Havok would only need 1 second to make a huge blast like he did to the Immortals. You have to think that if it were truly a battle, Havok would have been ko'd though. It also only takes 1 second for Omega Red to apply the phermones and make Havok to weak to even do a blast. His holding of the blackhole effect was impressive indeed, but its pretty obvious that Havok is going to have more feats and display of power than Omega Red. Doesnt meant he automatically wins though. He CAN win.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its true. Havok would only need 1 second to make a huge blast like he did to the Immortals. You have to think that if it were truly a battle, Havok would have been ko'd though. It also only takes 1 second for Omega Red to apply the phermones and make Havok to weak to even do a blast. His holding of the blackhole effect was impressive indeed, but its pretty obvious that Havok is going to have more feats and display of power than Omega Red. Doesnt meant he automatically wins though. He CAN win.

Come on. We know Havok isn't that dumb to engage him hand-2-hand battle. If Omega appears from nothing he could blast himself into the air and be 20 miles away from him to get some prep. Then Omega is screwed. Alex is a smart one. He got the leadership, he got strategy and common sense. He lead X-Factor and now team leader in X-Men. I'm sure he knows enough about Omega Red to come up with the right tactics in 10 seconds.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I doubt it'd need to be 50 ft. Omniblast would destroy any deathspores released into the air... and the person releasing them.

Im glad you mentioned that

If havok was aware of the deathspores, and even if by chance he did an omniblast without knoweldge that spores were in the air, i dont see why it wouldnet just evaporate the spores anyway due to the nature of his omniblast

It seems like havok has a range advantage in this fight, he can do more from further away, and even if it got close, havok can still release omniblasts if he is in trouble
He has other options such as terrain damage
but um, tihs is a perty good fight

Originally posted by Rewmac
Come on. We know Havok isn't that dumb to engage him hand-2-hand battle. If Omega appears from nothing he could blast himself into the air and be 20 miles away from him to get some prep. Then Omega is screwed. Alex is a smart one. He got the leadership, he got strategy and common sense. He lead X-Factor and now team leader in X-Men. I'm sure he knows enough about Omega Red to come up with the right tactics in 10 seconds.

Havok wouldnt be dumb enough to engage him in h2h? That may very well be Havoks first option depending on how close they are to each other. He doesnt know Reds skills or abilities. Red is an honaorable fighter and probably wouldnt use his skills or abilities at first anyway. Possibly. Im not sure how were calling this fight. Havok isnt known for blasting himself in the air to get away to gain some sort of prep on his opponent. Wouldnt that be battlefield removal on himslef and counted as a forefit? I doubt Havok knows anything about Red. Im almost 100% sure of that. And he sure as hell isnt gonna figure out omniblast in 10 seconds. By that time, hed be dead.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
If havok was aware of the deathspores, and even if by chance he did an omniblast without knoweldge that spores were in the air, i dont see why it wouldnet just evaporate the spores anyway due to the nature of his omniblast

It seems like havok has a range advantage in this fight, he can do more from further away, and even if it got close, havok can still release omniblasts if he is in trouble
He has other options such as terrain damage
but um, tihs is a perty good fight

As per the Logan Files, it was mentioned that the Phermones were flammable. If Havok did that do you think he would be immune to burning up by the flames even if hes the one that caused it?

True Havok does have the range advantage here, but if he gets in close i think hes done for. Phermones move and act quickly and if hes grabbed by the tentacles and the Death Factor is applied as well, hes a gonner imo. I dont think an omniblast would get him outta that. Hell, i dont even think hed get the omniblast off. Your right though, it is a good fight.

Originally posted by jrodslam
As per the Logan Files, it was mentioned that the Phermones were flammable. If Havok did that do you think he would be immune to burning up by the flames even if hes the one that caused it?

True Havok does have the range advantage here, but if he gets in close i think hes done for. Phermones move and act quickly and if hes grabbed by the tentacles and the Death Factor is applied as well, hes a gonner imo. I dont think an omniblast would get him outta that. Hell, i dont even think hed get the omniblast off. Your right though, it is a good fight.


he should still be succeptable to the explosion caused by the phermones, i think, if he blew them up. Similar to if he caused a gas station to explode, etc. But thats without considering how close he is to it

but i think havok is doomed if he gets too close, perhaps, omega red has all the physical advantages in this fight if im not mistaken
is logan files the one with omega red and wolverine and that random guy on the cover? or is that orgins

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
he should still be succeptable to the explosion caused by the phermones, i think, if he blew them up. Similar to if he caused a gas station to explode, etc. But thats without considering how close he is to it

True.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
but i think havok is doomed if he gets too close, perhaps, omega red has all the physical advantages in this fight if im not mistaken
is logan files the one with omega red and wolverine and that random guy on the cover? or is that orgins

Logan files are Wolverrne v1 #173-175. On the cover of #173, Wolvie is by himself with arrows in his back and his pants and shirt torn. Cover of 174 has just his face on tghe cover and 175 cover has him alone with no shirt.

Havok takes this easily. His power activates and happens faster than Red's. Plus, Havok is just much more powerful.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Havok takes this easily. His power activates and happens faster than Red's.

Debatable.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Plus, Havok is just much more powerful.

Given.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Havok wouldnt be dumb enough to engage him in h2h? That may very well be Havoks first option depending on how close they are to each other. He doesnt know Reds skills or abilities. Red is an honaorable fighter and probably wouldnt use his skills or abilities at first anyway. Possibly. Im not sure how were calling this fight. Havok isnt known for blasting himself in the air to get away to gain some sort of prep on his opponent. Wouldnt that be battlefield removal on himslef and counted as a forefit? I doubt Havok knows anything about Red. Im almost 100% sure of that. And he sure as hell isnt gonna figure out omniblast in 10 seconds. By that time, hed be dead. You clearly haven't read the Polaris fight. He was protecting Annie and Carter, he launched himself into the air. And he knows Omega Red. During the X-Men years you learn the foes of one and the other (possibility). 10 seconds is more than enough (based on his powers) to get his preps. Haovk won't engage him in hand-2-hand, why would he??? His powers aren't physical based. First thing he'd do is a huge blast against Omega Red. For sure. And if he doesn't launch himself up (meaning he isn't feeling it that dangerous or isn't protecting someone) the blasts sideffects on Omega give Alex the time he needs to charge an all out blast. Since we are using characters here on KMC as their best.

my money is Omega hands down

havoc he has more power if he has and i dont want to take any crap from anyone

Originally posted by Rewmac
You clearly haven't read the Polaris fight. He was protecting Annie and Carter, he launched himself into the air. And he knows Omega Red. During the X-Men years you learn the foes of one and the other (possibility). 10 seconds is more than enough (based on his powers) to get his preps. Haovk won't engage him in hand-2-hand, why would he??? His powers aren't physical based. First thing he'd do is a huge blast against Omega Red. For sure. And if he doesn't launch himself up (meaning he isn't feeling it that dangerous or isn't protecting someone) the blasts sideffects on Omega give Alex the time he needs to charge an all out blast. Since we are using characters here on KMC as their best.

Ohh i read the fight if you wanna call it that. Like i stated in my quoted post. He rarely flies. Hes done it what, about 3 times in about 35 years? Its not a likely tactic for him in battle is what im saying. And if he did fly away to get prep, he loses via battlefield removal of himself. I highly doubt Havok read the files on Omega Red. Especially considering hes a Wolvie villain mainly and not considered an X-Men threat. If they dont engage in h2h first, Havok would shoot regular blasts in the beginning. Not some huge blast like you think.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Does his blasts turn the air into plasma? I though the blasts themselves were plasma?
Yep, he can turn the air into superheated plastma and it doesnt have to be an omnidirectional blast, as long as he knows where to focus it.. Problem is, dont know how far itll extend..
Originally posted by jrodslam
They have to be in range of each other. It goes both ways. I know Havok can charge his body with energy. Just as Red may be in trouble if Havok was in range, Havok may be in trouble if Red was in range.
Close range proximity attack id have to give it to Havok as well, not only is he able to super heat the air making it quite diff. for his opponent to act + his got a personal energy shield, that could withstand EM blast and the likes. and other tricks like say uses his power to jump higher or flight, strength augmentation/somethin similar to and huge blast can also be use on close proximity attack..
Question dough can the deathspore pass through an energy shield?
Originally posted by jrodslam
As per the Logan Files, it was mentioned that the Phermones were flammable. If Havok did that do you think he would be immune to burning up by the flames even if hes the one that caused it?

I doubt those phermones would become flamable since Havok has control over the air in his proximity + his got personal forcefield and is capable of extending those in diff. bubbles. Red can try to wrap Havok with those tentacles but with the force field it would be quite impossible, + were not even sure if those spores can go through his field..

havoc

Originally posted by jrodslam
Ohh i read the fight if you wanna call it that. Like i stated in my quoted post. He rarely flies. Hes done it what, about 3 times in about 35 years? Its not a likely tactic for him in battle is what im saying. And if he did fly away to get prep, he loses via battlefield removal of himself. I highly doubt Havok read the files on Omega Red. Especially considering hes a Wolvie villain mainly and not considered an X-Men threat. If they dont engage in h2h first, Havok would shoot regular blasts in the beginning. Not some huge blast like you think.
You should know that the vs. forums are using characters at their best. Havok doesn't really need time to charge a big one to blow Omega Red away. And if battlefield removal is an option Omega Red has then lost end of battle. If we don't use BFR then the fight still goes on. Range is what works better for Havok so my question is still : Havok is a projectile based character, why would he fight him with fists??? And it is a possibility that he read about Omega during his X-Men years. X-Mansion Comp has all known villians of their members and of the team in the databank. I'm not saying he did but that is a possiblity.
In my opinion Havok wins this.



Like his blast feats show in the Respect Thread range works for him. Or another option is what he did against Black Tom Cassidy. Radial Exlopsion of Plasma.

Originally posted by Roldz
Yep, he can turn the air into superheated plastma and it doesnt have to be an omnidirectional blast, as long as he knows where to focus it.. Problem is, dont know how far itll extend.

Can i see a pic of him turning the air itself into the plasma? I always thought it was his blasts that were the plasma.

Originally posted by Roldz
Close range proximity attack id have to give it to Havok as well, not only is he able to super heat the air making it quite diff. for his opponent to act + his got a personal energy shield, that could withstand EM blast and the likes. and other tricks like say uses his power to jump higher or flight, strength augmentation/somethin similar to and huge blast can also be use on close proximity attack..
Question dough can the deathspore pass through an energy shield?

I still dont know about the close range. Would his energy shield actually prevent him from being grabbed? Would the Phermones go through? Thats a good question. If the Phermones are able to get through to Havok, all his abilities/skills/attacks would be hard to pull off or wont get off at all.

Originally posted by Roldz
I doubt those phermones would become flamable since Havok has control over the air in his proximity + his got personal forcefield and is capable of extending those in diff. bubbles. Red can try to wrap Havok with those tentacles but with the force field it would be quite impossible, + were not even sure if those spores can go through his field..

Is Havok able to have the field and attack through it at the same time? Just a question. I do think the spores would be flamable if the surrounding area is heated up. When i first saw it, i thought it was bull, but if thats the way it is, then hey.

Originally posted by Rewmac
You should know that the vs. forums are using characters at their best. Havok doesn't really need time to charge a big one to blow Omega Red away. And if battlefield removal is an option Omega Red has then lost end of battle. If we don't use BFR then the fight still goes on. Range is what works better for Havok so my question is still : Havok is a projectile based character, why would he fight him with fists??? And it is a possibility that he read about Omega during his X-Men years. X-Mansion Comp has all known villians of their members and of the team in the databank. I'm not saying he did but that is a possiblity.
In my opinion Havok wins this.



Like his blast feats show in the Respect Thread range works for him. Or another option is what he did against Black Tom Cassidy. Radial Exlopsion of Plasma.

Yes the forums are using the characters at their best. But also in character. You mention flying although Havok has only done if a few times. I just think he hasnt done it consistant enough to say hed do it in a fight. And if he does it, he eliminates himslef from the battle and Red wins. I dont think Havok would have to charge to blow Red away. I dont think a regular balst would do much to Red anyways.

Check the respect thread under my sig.. He can super charge the air around him. Ive got some more scan ive got to post just dont have time right now.. later

Originally posted by Roldz
Check the respect thread under my sig.. He can super charge the air around him. Ive got some more scan ive got to post just dont have time right now.. later

Where is he turning the air around him into plasma? I always though it was him that releasing the plasma from out of him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Yes the forums are using the characters at their best. But also in character. You mention flying although Havok has only done if a few times. I just think he hasnt done it consistant enough to say hed do it in a fight. And if he does it, he eliminates himslef from the battle and Red wins. I dont think Havok would have to charge to blow Red away. I dont think a regular balst would do much to Red anyways.

You got that right that he might not use it. I just say has done it before. Why not do it again?? And for BFR can you put that aside coz then a radial explosion would be BFR and Havok would win. Or well charged (1 second charge, concentrated) blast would also remove Omega Red from the battlefield and that would mean the end of story. So if you wanna do it the BFR way there is more chance that Alex tkaes this with BFR than Omega Red.

Originally posted by Rewmac
You got that right that he might not use it. I just say has done it before. Why not do it again?? And for BFR can you put that aside coz then a radial explosion would be BFR and Havok would win. Or well charged (1 second charge, concentrated) blast would also remove Omega Red from the battlefield and that would mean the end of story. So if you wanna do it the BFR way there is more chance that Alex tkaes this with BFR than Omega Red.

He could do it again. Im just saying its not a likely tactic in combat. In regards to BFR, if he were to blast Red, how would it remove him from the bettlefield. How far do you think hed blast Red?

Originally posted by jrodslam
He could do it again. Im just saying its not a likely tactic in combat. In regards to BFR, if he were to blast Red, how would it remove him from the bettlefield. How far do you think hed blast Red?

Well far enough...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Havok/Page023.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmen181bjy2.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Havok/tenchi_xmen161_p06.jpg

Originally posted by Rewmac
Well far enough...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Havok/Page023.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmen181bjy2.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/Havok/tenchi_xmen161_p06.jpg

Blasting him that far would be a BFR imo. Plus Omega Red has a bit of range himself.

Omega would destroy Havok, hands down

Originally posted by jrodslam
Where is he turning the air around him into plasma? I always though it was him that releasing the plasma from out of him.
http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmen180bcc0.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newhplasmary8.jpg
Plasma is just superheated air/gas.. In the scans above he supercharges the air around her with intense heat turnin it into controlled plasma burst..
Originally posted by jrodslam
Yes the forums are using the characters at their best. But also in character. You mention flying although Havok has only done if a few times. I just think he hasnt done it consistant enough to say hed do it in a fight. And if he does it, he eliminates himslef from the battle and Red wins. I dont think Havok would have to charge to blow Red away. I dont think a regular balst would do much to Red anyways.
Originally posted by jrodslam
He could do it again. Im just saying its not a likely tactic in combat. In regards to BFR, if he were to blast Red, how would it remove him from the bettlefield. How far do you think hed blast Red?
After he first learned it, not that long ago, his been doin it w/ tactical advantage against his opponent at current release of X-men issues.. according to the poster nothing has been stated in the proximate size of the battle field.. So nobody is winning this through BFR and when it comes to reach Omega has nothing against Havok..
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xf100in7.jpg
http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xf100bys9.jpg
Heres his levatating on water.. earliest use of flight abilities..
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmen180nj1.jpg
Originally posted by LordFear
Omega would destroy Havok, hands down
Highly unlikely.. It would be the other way around
Originally posted by jrodslam
Can i see a pic of him turning the air itself into the plasma? I always thought it was his blasts that were the plasma.



I still dont know about the close range. Would his energy shield actually prevent him from being grabbed? Would the Phermones go through? Thats a good question. If the Phermones are able to get through to Havok, all his abilities/skills/attacks would be hard to pull off or wont get off at all.



Is Havok able to have the field and attack through it at the same time? Just a question. I do think the spores would be flamable if the surrounding area is heated up. When i first saw it, i thought it was bull, but if thats the way it is, then hey.
Yep, he can shield and blast at same time...

omega and havok are cool

Originally posted by Roldz
http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmen180bcc0.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newhplasmary8.jpg
Plasma is just superheated air/gas.. In the scans above he supercharges the air around her with intense heat turnin it into controlled plasma burst..

In the first scan, Havok shot a heat beam at the guys holding the weapons.

In the second scan, Havok didnt turn the air into plasma there. HE shot out the heat from his body initially, then on the next panel, he turned it up with a plasma burst. He didnt turn the air into anything. He was emitting it from his body.

Originally posted by Roldz
After he first learned it, not that long ago, his been doin it w/ tactical advantage against his opponent at current release of X-men issues.. according to the poster nothing has been stated in the proximate size of the battle field.. So nobody is winning this through BFR and when it comes to reach Omega has nothing against Havok..
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xf100in7.jpg
http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xf100bys9.jpg
Heres his levatating on water.. earliest use of flight abilities..
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmen180nj1.jpg

All iwas saying is that its not a likely tactic for Havok in battle to fly around. Thus i wouldnt consider it to be useable her on the forums. But if it wants to be used in this thread then fine. Secondly, i never stated that Omega Red had better reach than Havok. I did stated that depending on how close they are together, Red could easily catch him with the Phermones probably just as quickly as Havokcan let out a blast. My initial statement i believe was Havok better be 20+ feet away from Red or he goes down.

Originally posted by Roldz
Highly unlikely.. It would be the other way around

Depending on a few things.

Originally posted by Roldz
Yep, he can shield and blast at same time...

With the phermones released depending how close they are to each other, he may set himself on fire. Its a possibility.

Originally posted by jrodslam
With the phermones released depending how close they are to each other, he may set himself on fire. Its a possibility. He's a mutant who emits plasma from his hands and absorbs radiation. He's going to lose to fire.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He's a mutant who emits plasma from his hands and absorbs radiation. He's going to lose to fire.

My thoughts exactly

Havok has one shoted current Juggernaut I think his durabilty is above Omega Red's

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He's a mutant who emits plasma from his hands and absorbs radiation. He's going to lose to fire.

Havok is susceptible to fire and getting burned.

Last I recall he's immune to heat radiation, considering he can surround himself in plasma.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Last I recall he's immune to heat radiation, considering he can surround himself in plasma.

And melt nearly everything. So yes he is immune to heat radiation.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Havok has one shoted current Juggernaut I think his durabilty is above Omega Red's Yes. That Juggernaut version's durability is above Omega Red's. But current Juggernaut got beaten by the Wrecking Crew.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Havok has one shoted current Juggernaut I think his durabilty is above Omega Red's

When was this? Are you talking about X-Men 162? The Juggernaut whos depowered severly? The Juggernaut who had claw marks in his helmet from sabertooth?

You thats what youre talkign about, it isnt saying much considering it was a cheapshot from behind. Naturally Juggs may be more durable, but Red is highly durable as well plus he has a high healing factor.

Originally posted by jrodslam
When was this? Are you talking about X-Men 162? The Juggernaut whos depowered severly? The Juggernaut who had claw marks in his helmet from sabertooth?

You thats what youre talkign about, it isnt saying much considering it was a cheapshot from behind. Naturally Juggs may be more durable, but Red is highly durable as well plus he has a high healing factor.
Cheap shot or not his durability was still the same.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Last I recall he's immune to heat radiation, considering he can surround himself in plasma.

Last i saw, he wasnt. Pyro once surrounded him in flames and he couldnt get out. He was even sweating and coughing from the smoke and was almost out till he and Polaris worked something out together.

Originally posted by jrodslam
When was this? Are you talking about X-Men 162? The Juggernaut whos depowered severly? The Juggernaut who had claw marks in his helmet from sabertooth?

You thats what youre talkign about, it isnt saying much considering it was a cheapshot from behind. Naturally Juggs may be more durable, but Red is highly durable as well plus he has a high healing factor. Psylocke's ordinary katana can cut his face, and stab through him. He's not that durable.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Last i saw, he wasnt. Pyro once surrounded him in flames and he couldnt get out. He was even sweating and coughing from the smoke and was almost out till he and Polaris worked something out together. Pyro's been dead how long now?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Cheap shot or not his durability was still the same.

Juggs is highly depowered now. Plus we dont even know if it knowed him out. Wasnt that whole plan a setup to get Nocturne away or something?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Pyro's been dead how long now?

When was the last time you say someone encase or surround Havok in fire?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Juggs is highly depowered now. Plus we dont even know if it knowed him out. Wasnt that whole plan a setup to get Nocturne away or something?
I don't remeber have to read it again .

Originally posted by jrodslam
When was the last time you say someone encase or surround Havok in fire? That's really more my question to you. His powers allow him to emit plasma from all parts of his body. He has the ability to absorb radiation. So other than this one instance many years ago that contradicts this powerset is there anything to suggest he can be burned by ordinary thermal radiation when the heat from his plasma does nothing to him?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's really more my question to you. His powers allow him to emit plasma from all parts of his body. He has the ability to absorb radiation. So other than this one instance many years ago that contradicts this powerset is there anything to suggest he can be burned by ordinary thermal radiation when the heat from his plasma does nothing to him?

Not really. I presented you with the information that hes not immune to fire or heat besides his own. Just because he emits plasma from his body doesnt make him imune to it from others. Prime example was when Sunfire did a omnidirectional blast. He almost knocked out Havok out.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not really. I presented you with the information that hes not immune to fire or heat besides his own. Just because he emits plasma from his body doesnt make him imune to it from others. Prime example was when Sunfire did a omnidirectional blast. He almost knocked out Havok out. Due to force or due to heat? It just seems odd that he'd not be immune to heat when he can surround himself with it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Due to force or due to heat? It just seems odd that he'd not be immune to heat when he can surround himself with it.

Not sure if it was the force of heat. It was an omniblast. Iceman was caught in it as well. I think it makes sense the hed be affected by others heat/fire. I understand him being immune to what only HE emits. Its not like hes Torch or Iceman whos immune to heat/fire and sub-zero temperatures.

Originally posted by jrodslam
In the first scan, Havok shot a heat beam at the guys holding the weapons.
In the second scan, Havok didnt turn the air into plasma there. HE shot out the heat from his body initially, then on the next panel, he turned it up with a plasma burst. He didnt turn the air into anything. He was emitting it from his body.

That is exactly how plasma works supercharge/heated air/gas.. His body realeases waves of energy that heats up the air around him turnin it into plasma.. http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h1br7.jpg

No he wouldnt because those flames would just become supercharge/heated gas when he activates his powers and as soon as his powers is activated his immune to his own plasma.. Therefore those phermones that Red immets is not going to work cause of Havoks control over sourrounding atmosphere/air/wind...
Originally posted by jrodslam
Last i saw, he wasnt. Pyro once surrounded him in flames and he couldnt get out. He was even sweating and coughing from the smoke and was almost out till he and Polaris worked something out together.
This is a few decades ago and prior to learnin more about how his powers work and the inhancement done by DarkBeast..
Originally posted by jrodslam
Not really. I presented you with the information that hes not immune to fire or heat besides his own. Just because he emits plasma from his body doesnt make him imune to it from others. Prime example was when Sunfire did a omnidirectional blast. He almost knocked out Havok out.
He was caught unaware and they where talkin him down cause after all he is still a member on/off of X-men..
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Due to force or due to heat? It just seems odd that he'd not be immune to heat when he can surround himself with it.
No Havok is not immune to heat but as soon as he activates his powers say omni-directional blast or if the heat his immiting is higher than say Torch heat then hed be immune to it since everything his powers transforms does him no harm..
Ohh those sourround shield he has is air tight..

Originally posted by Roldz
That is exactly how plasma works supercharge/heated air/gas.. His body realeases waves of energy that heats up the air around him turnin it into plasma.. http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h1br7.jpg
I recalled I had read that somewhere I just couldn't put my finger on where.

Originally posted by Roldz
That is exactly how plasma works supercharge/heated air/gas.. His body realeases waves of energy that heats up the air around him turnin it into plasma.. http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h1br7.jpg

I understand that its how plasma works, but what im saying is that hes the one whos making the supercharged heat/air. When he lets out the heated blasts and puts more power into it, it then itself becomes the plasma. Not the air thats around his blast.

Originally posted by Roldz
No he wouldnt because those flames would just become supercharge/heated gas when he activates his powers and as soon as his powers is activated his immune to his own plasma.. Therefore those phermones that Red immets is not going to work cause of Havoks control over sourrounding atmosphere/air/wind...

Yes he would. Those flames would be supercharged/heated gas, but it wont be HIS supercharged heated gas. Thats why he would be vunerable to it.

Originally posted by Roldz
This is a few decades ago and prior to learnin more about how his powers work and the inhancement done by DarkBeast..

What did he lear from DarkBeast that would prevent him from not being burned by someone elses plasma? Secondly, the instance with Pyro was only 14 years ago. Not a few decades.

Originally posted by Roldz
He was caught unaware and they where talkin him down cause after all he is still a member on/off of X-men..

Ehh kinda. Hes the one who ordered the attack after Sunfire was about to attemt a move. He should have stayed prepared. Sunfire and Gambit made it clear that if the X-Men wouldnt assist, there will be conflict.

Originally posted by Roldz
No Havok is not immune to heat but as soon as he activates his powers say omni-directional blast or if the heat his immiting is higher than say Torch heat then hed be immune to it since everything his powers transforms does him no harm..
Ohh those sourround shield he has is air tight..

I agree with what you just said there save for the last sentence. Are his shields really air tight? How is he able to blast from out of it? Isnt Magnetos shield air tight as well? Ive never seen him blast out of it while it was still on. Maybe he has, but ive never seen it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I understand that its how plasma works, but what im saying is that hes the one whos making the supercharged heat/air. When he lets out the heated blasts and puts more power into it, it then itself becomes the plasma. Not the air thats around his blast.

No, read the bio scanned i posted.. What he emits is an energy wave that turns the air into plasma..

When he activates his powers the waves emits all over his body supercharging/heating the air around him which he then becomes immune to it since it was his powers that changed it, the heat produce would be far higher than the flames therefore it dessipates/is superseeded by his heat or he could just use his omni-blast.. Read the bio again specially Super-human powers section..

Not only his powers was inhance but also learned some ways to control it.. Also i didnt say he was immune to someone else plasma.. A decade is 10 years..

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shieldblastnh2.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shieldblast1bs0.jpg

Originally posted by Roldz
No, read the bio scanned i posted.. What he emits is an energy wave that turns the air into plasma..

When he activates his powers the waves emits all over his body supercharging/heating the air around him which he then becomes immune to it since it was his powers that changed it, the heat produce would be far higher than the flames therefore it dessipates/is superseeded by his heat or he could just use his omni-blast.. Read the bio again specially Super-human powers section..

I read every part of the bio. When Havok uses his power and his heat is released, the heat he releases is whats turned into the plasma. I guess because since theres always air is all around him, it can be said that he turns the air into plasma, but that isnt the case. Iceman for instance can turn the air itself into ice.

If Havok is surrounded by his heat, he is immune to it. No arguements there. However if the heat around him catches on fire, it would not dissipate. No if there was fire he was surrounded by and got the chance to, he then can use an omniblast (which would have to be at a higher outputlevel in plasma and heat) and that would dissipate the flames.


Originally posted by Roldz
Not only his powers was inhance but also learned some ways to control it.. Also i didnt say he was immune to someone else plasma.. A decade is 10 years..

How were his powers enhanced? Also you said "This is a few decades ago...." I know a decade is 10 years and a couple would be 20, but wouldnt that be 30 + years from your quote? I thought you initially didnt know what a decade was, or at least when the fight took place to say it happened a few decasdes ago. 14 years would be just a little over 1 decade.

Originally posted by Roldz
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shieldblastnh2.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shieldblast1bs0.jpg

In the scan where hes actually shooting, his arms seem to be outside of his bubble. The hand hes shooting from appears to have its on buble as well. Or are they really bubles/shields at all? Ive always thought the were just the waves of energy/heat that emits from his body when hes powered up or using his powers. Not a actuall shield(Sue, Lantern, Mags) where nothing gets through. I have seen him do barrier like blasts, but around himself?

Originally posted by jrodslam
I read every part of the bio. When Havok uses his power and his heat is released, the heat he releases is whats turned into the plasma. I guess because since theres always air is all around him, it can be said that he turns the air into plasma, but that isnt the case. Iceman for instance can turn the air itself into ice.

If Havok is surrounded by his heat, he is immune to it. No arguements there. However if the heat around him catches on fire, it would not dissipate. No if there was fire he was surrounded by and got the chance to, he then can use an omniblast (which would have to be at a higher outputlevel in plasma and heat) and that would dissipate the flames.

This is directly taken from the bio, "And release it as waves of energies that heat up the air in its path enough to turn it into plasma, which is a superheated state of matter consisting of charged subatomic particles."
It is not the wave that turns into plasma, its the collision/manipulation of the wave and air resulting in plasma.. Atleast that how i understand the above quote..

The wave usually eminate in all direction unless he wills it diff.. Once those phermones inters his field of wave no flames will be produce from the resulting collision since 02 is taken up already by the wave or be swallowed/consumed by the existing heat wave who is by far higher in temp than the flame that would have been produce by the phermones..
Now im basing this on the fact that the wave temp is high enough to turn the air into plasma, it being higher than the phermones flames..

Now for that you have to read X-factor 125.. But the jest was bigger boom and control.. I look back and did say a few decade, i meant a decade.. My Bad..

The guy tackled him on the first scan and it clearly didnt touch him cause of the bubble.. The hands well its the plasma wave that he used not burst, thats why it has diff. effect/art...

Originally posted by Roldz
This is directly taken from the bio, "And release it as waves of energies that heat up the air in its path enough to turn it into plasma, which is a superheated state of matter consisting of charged subatomic particles."
It is not the wave that turns into plasma, its the collision/manipulation of the wave and air resulting in plasma.. Atleast that how i understand the above quote..

The wave usually eminate in all direction unless he wills it diff.. Once those phermones inters his field of wave no flames will be produce from the resulting collision since 02 is taken up already by the wave or be swallowed/consumed by the existing heat wave who is by far higher in temp than the flame that would have been produce by the phermones..
Now im basing this on the fact that the wave temp is high enough to turn the air into plasma, it being higher than the phermones flames..

Well, maybe im just not getting it. I understand what the bio is saying and all, but from looking at the comics and what he does, he cant change the air into plasma or whatever like Iceman can actually literally change the air into ice. I notice that its the heat that hes releasing from his hands/body that gets hotter and turns into plasma. Its like if i shoot a flamethrower, am i turning the air into flames? I may be heating up the area around my due to the flames, but i nor the flametrhrower is actually turning the air into flames. Thats my take on it. Now what im saying about Reds Phermones is that its flamable. Because Havok is going to have a degree of heat and or plasma around him, once in contact with the Phermones will turn into Flames of which arent of Havoks control. Les say if Havok does have the aura/shield around him and the Phermones come in contact with it, his aura will then be flames and thus not a product of his own powers.

Originally posted by Roldz
Now for that you have to read X-factor 125.. But the jest was bigger boom and control.. I look back and did say a few decade, i meant a decade.. My Bad..

Cool. No prob.

Originally posted by Roldz
The guy tackled him on the first scan and it clearly didnt touch him cause of the bubble.. The hands well its the plasma wave that he used not burst, thats why it has diff. effect/art...

I guess. I still say Havok loses if hes within 30 feet of Red.

PS: Id also like to add that its been a pleasure debating with you and others on this. No insulting or such is always appreciated.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well, maybe im just not getting it. I understand what the bio is saying and all, but from looking at the comics and what he does, he cant change the air into plasma or whatever like Iceman can actually literally change the air into ice. I notice that its the heat that hes releasing from his hands/body that gets hotter and turns into plasma. Its like if i shoot a flamethrower, am i turning the air into flames? I may be heating up the area around my due to the flames, but i nor the flametrhrower is actually turning the air into flames. Thats my take on it.
Well its the combined waved and air resulting in plasma.. there are scans on panel that mentions somethin about air heating up prior to the blast, i think ive posted 1 of it.. Well the way i understand Iceman powers is involuntary/autonomic deduction of kinetic energy present in the sourrounding/invironment and yes/no far diff. in Havok's powers operate Yes in a way that Alex uses wave of high temp(+kinetic energy in motion) turnin air into plasma and No as in Bobby's involuntary control with kinetic energy in itself turnin air/moisture into Ice, there's
more to it ofcurse but that would be a diff. topic..

But see this is what i think you fail to understand, a space where extreme heat is already presence a product of Alex powers; 1.) air has already/to the point near turned into gas no source for aything to be a flamed by lack of 02, 2.) the heatwave produce is in a way far higher temp the phermones flames if its somehow becomes flammable prior to contact w/ the wave therefor it either gets consumed or just dessipates when the two collides... theres more but this 2 reason should be enough.

I quess we diff. in opinion..lol thats a given.. Reason being stated on past post..
Yeah its nice to be civil...