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I can't believe this has never been done....

Anyhoo, Martin Riggs in place of John McClane. Riggs must win the day in the following 4 scenarios. In every scenario, Riggs has the support of the same people that McClane did, and has access to the same weapons/gear that McClane did:

MISSION 1: Nakatomi Plaza. Riggs, as McClane was, is a guest at the Christmas party in Nakatomi plaza. (Riggs doesn't have a family, so in this scenario, Trish Murtaugh is in place of Holly McClane. Riggs is a guest of hers and considers her family, just as he did in the latter LW movies.) The entire Murtaugh family is being held hostage, along with the other hostages. Trish has a picture of Riggs on her desk, just like Holly did of McClane. Riggs must defeat Hans and his men, save the hostages, just like McClane did. Riggs is armed with his Beretta 92F. He is wearing a wife beater, jeans, and no shoes.


MISSION TWO: Dulles International airport. Riggs is at the airport waiting for Murtaugh and his family to land. The Colonel and his men do their thing, Riggs is in the middle of it all, just as McClane was. Riggs must save the day, just as Mac did. Riggs is armed with his Beretta, as usual.


MISSION THREE: New York City. Simon Gruber targets Riggs, just as he did McClane. Riggs is hung over, just as McClane was. He teams up with Zeus and must bring Simon down. Again, Riggs is armed with his Beretta 92F.


MISSION FOUR: The Eastern seaboard. Gabriel and his team are executing their fire sale. Riggs is assigned to escort Farrell to D.C.. Riggs must keep Farrell safe and bring down Gabriel and his team. In this scenario, Rianne Murtaugh is in place of Lucy McClane. Riggs is armed with his Beretta92F.




Riggs doesn't have to do everything that Mac did, as long as he completes the mission, that's all that matters. What does matter is that all the boss battles McClane fought in (Karl, The Colonel, Mason, Lerch, etc) Riggs must complete too.





So, does Riggs clear? If not, how far does he get? Riggs is in his prime (LW 1 and 2) for all four missions.

I reckon he clears 1,3 and 4.

I'm undecided on him pulling of the plane fight from 2.

Shit, the plane sequence he clears easily. He'd kick the shit outta the Colonel and Mason.

But Riggs would probably take the jet differently. After kicking the shit outta the Colonel and Mason, he'd probably unload his Beretta into the engine, disable the plane.

Or he'd figure another way to blow it up. Hell, knowing Riggs, the mission probably wouldn't even get that far.

True. He clears all of em then.

Probably so. Scenario one he clears easily, as he does with two. Three will be a bit of a challenge. Four is a cakewalk.

Based on LW1 h2h feats, and DH2 villain feats, Riggs fails at the plane.

Watch LW again, and see how little Riggs does H2h, and when he does it, its actually basic and slow. No chance.

Hope he has a zippo handy.

Slow? haermm No, it's not slow. It's a helluva lot faster than McClane's slothlike haymakers.


So, the plane, Riggs is a smoker. He carries a zippo


Riggs woulda disabled the plane and killed the special forces guys one by one as they tried to run. In the end, he saves millions of dollars Or just unload on the wing.

McClane's haymakers are actually fast enough hooks to beat Riggs.

Good.

Unload with what....? That challenge is unarmed.

Besides, Riggs firing at vehicles that fly away from him credentials are dubious. Otherwise, Joshua would have never have made it away from killing Hunsacker.

Not if it was McClane firing, that chopper would be down.

In fact, the chopper pilot would see McClane about to take a shot and just bail out of the chopper letting it crash as a forgone conclusion that he was about to die, such is McClane's involvance with Chopper destruction.

In fact, onscreen the only chopper that escaped McDismemberment, was the one that Coleman and her camaramen had in DH2, and the policechopper in Die Hard 3 that McClane and Zeus rode in.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane's haymakers are actually fast enough hooks to beat Riggs. No, they aren't. Riggs was dodging Jet Li's punches. See, Riggs routinely takes on 3-4 men and kicks ass. Mac? He routinely has trouble with one.



Kill mason and take his gun

Riggs was out of range there, dude.

LW2, he beat a chopper with his pistol

No, it wouldn't. Not even Wesley Gibson coulda downed Joshua's chopper.

Sure he would.

McClane took out two choppers, dude. You make it sound like he took out a fleet.





BTW: Both these threads, you're looking at them the wrong way. You're so obsessed with McClane that it's coming outta your ears.

McClane routinely kills everyone unarmed or armed....minus Murtaugh's constant assist.

Mcclane has destroyed Choppers, Commercial Planes, Jetfighters etc.
IE well on his way to being a fleet. Stay tuned also for DH5.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane routinely kills everyone unarmed or armed....minus Murtaugh's constant assist.

Mcclane has destroyed Choppers, Commercial Planes, Jetfighters etc.
IE well on his way to being a fleet. Stay tuned also for DH5.

In the scene where Riggs saves the day (you know, where he enters the room unarmed and kills half a dozen men), Murtaugh was tied up. Most of Riggs impressive feats, Murtaugh was not in the mix. Fact.

McClane has his life saved by Al, then Farrell So you might wanna shut it about that.


Riggs clears DH 1-4 in his sleep.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I can't believe this has never been done....

Anyhoo, Martin Riggs in place of John McClane. Riggs must win the day in the following 4 scenarios. In every scenario, Riggs has the support of the same people that McClane did, and has access to the same weapons/gear that McClane did:

MISSION 1: Nakatomi Plaza. Riggs, as McClane was, is a guest at the Christmas party in Nakatomi plaza. (Riggs doesn't have a family, so in this scenario, Trish Murtaugh is in place of Holly McClane. Riggs is a guest of hers and considers her family, just as he did in the latter LW movies.) The entire Murtaugh family is being held hostage, along with the other hostages. Trish has a picture of Riggs on her desk, just like Holly did of McClane. Riggs must defeat Hans and his men, save the hostages, just like McClane did. Riggs is armed with his Beretta 92F. He is wearing a wife beater, jeans, and no shoes.


Stops here, notably at the scene when he meets Hans in disguise. While Riggs is a capable cop, he's a tad slow on the uptake and doesn't have McClane's keen sense. So he gets shot by Hans, probably while his back is turned.

Murtaugh, now that cat would likely have seen right through Hans' ruse.

Originally posted by Robtard
Stops here, notably at the scene when he meets Hans in disguise. While Riggs is a capable cop, he's a tad slow on the uptake and doesn't have McClane's keen sense. So he gets shot by Hans, probably while his back is turned.

Murtaugh, now that cat would likely have seen right through Hans' ruse. Hardly. Riggs showed more "cop intuition" and displayed far better investigating skills, going with his gut, all that cop shit.

Riggs would never have given him the gun, even if he WAS Bill Clay. hell, even I could tell if was Hans' voice when he was acting as Bill Clay. McClane simply heard that too.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hardly. Riggs showed more "cop intuition" and displayed far better investigating skills, going with his gut, all that cop shit.

Riggs would never have given him the gun, even if he WAS Bill Clay. hell, even I could tell if was Hans' voice when he was acting as Bill Clay. McClane simply heard that too.

Don't be ridiculous.

Originally posted by Robtard
Don't be ridiculous.


Elaborate? Pretty thin? Anorexic? It's true man. Riggs was shown doing more "cop work" than McClane was, following leads and shit, investigating and shit. Forget about who's more badass, Riggs is a better detective.

Gotta come with something more than "Don't be ridiculous."

Murtaugh is the detective/brains, Riggs' the muscle.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
In the scene where Riggs saves the day (you know, where he enters the room unarmed and kills half a dozen men), Murtaugh was tied up. Most of Riggs impressive feats, Murtaugh was not in the mix. Fact.

McClane has his life saved by Al, then Farrell So you might wanna shut it about that.


Riggs clears DH 1-4 in his sleep.


Riggs killed only 1 of those guys unarmed though.. Mcclane has killed
So what does THAT leave your point with?

Who killed McCallister and his bodyguards..? Mmmm Thats right. Murtaugh.... Who assisted Riggs in shooting Joshua...? Mmmm. Murtaugh again.... Who came to Riggs' aid, pulling him up after the failed drive by hit? Murtaugh again. AND THATS JUST LW1.

Ummmmm nah. Im thinking that you'll be "shutting it" when its pointed out to everyone again that they didnt assist him in the bulk of the combat, especially not to the constant extent that Riggs had physical support on the battlefield from Murtaugh.

Hahahahah Yeah. He'll HAVE TO, once Karl has sparked his ass in DH1.

Originally posted by Robtard
Stops here, notably at the scene when he meets Hans in disguise. While Riggs is a capable cop, he's a tad slow on the uptake and doesn't have McClane's keen sense. So he gets shot by Hans, probably while his back is turned.

Murtaugh, now that cat would likely have seen right through Hans' ruse.

Agreed.

Murtaugh was always the more contemplative/savvy of the two..

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Elaborate? Pretty thin? Anorexic? It's true man. Riggs was shown doing more "cop work" than McClane was, following leads and shit, investigating and shit. Forget about who's more badass, Riggs is a better detective.

Gotta come with something more than "Don't be ridiculous."

Thats due to the nature of their more leisurely paced assignments VS the brutal, urgent has-to-be-dealt-with-now- paced situations....but when 5 mins of detecting/reasoning/deducting McClane is there on the ball mostly by himself......and still the bad guys die.
Riggs and Muratugh were traffic cops at one point.
No such namby pamby activitahhhs for the Mac.

The two usually only work the real important shit out that leads them to bad guys by bouncing off of each other's ideas.

IE: Thy're the essence of cop buddy movies.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Thats due to the nature of their more leisurely paced assignments VS the brutal, urgent has-to-be-dealt-with-now- paced situations Everything Mac does Riggs can do, and better. See, Mac NEEDS the luck you praise because he can't get the job done on skills alone. Riggs can, and does.



haermm What did Mac really do? Took some names and numbers in DH1, read some clothing labels, and........cigarettes.........Riggs could do these things too. If he couldn't, he wouldn't be a damn detective.


So? Mac was SUSPENDED.

And Mac is always falling ass backwards into answers. hence your "McClane factor." And no matter how you twist it, Mac ALWAYS had help, from different people. AND he had his life saved at least twice, by Al, then Farrell.

Karl? Riggs woulda killed him in under a minute, stealthed Hans, killed him and the other dude, rescue Trish, and have time to stop for coffee. WITHOUT wounded feet.

K?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Everything Mac does Riggs can do, and better. See, Mac NEEDS the luck you praise because he can't get the job done on skills alone. Riggs can, and does.



haermm What did Mac really do? Took some names and numbers in DH1, read some clothing labels, and........cigarettes.........Riggs could do these things too. If he couldn't, he wouldn't be a damn detective.


So? Mac was SUSPENDED.

And Mac is always falling ass backwards into answers. hence your "McClane factor." And no matter how you twist it, Mac ALWAYS had help, from different people. AND he had his life saved at least twice, by Al, then Farrell.

Karl? Riggs woulda killed him in under a minute, stealthed Hans, killed him and the other dude, rescue Trish, and have time to stop for coffee. WITHOUT wounded feet.

K?

Nah That sounds lovely and all that, but screen feats dictate otherwise.
Riggs was a slow old man who got shut down by a rookie with a basic Jab.


As explained in my answer, he did exactly the right amount of detective work that was required to get the job done largely by himself.
He worked out Gruber's plot/plans by himself.
That ends your 'argument'.

It was the 90s. All the best LA 80s cops were suspended/then reinstated 5 mins later...it was almost a cliche.

Right, but Riggs ALWAYS had help. From the same guy. The same guy saving his ass and helping Riggs beat the bad guys....Well...Until Launa started to help with that too, of course.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Nah That sounds lovely and all that, but screen feats dictate otherwise.
Riggs was a slow old man who got shut down by a rookie with a basic Jab.
Too bad in this thread it's Riggs from LW 1 and 2. AND it wasn't a girl.


Riggs, in LW 1 and 2, was a wrecking machine. He took on 4-5 opponents on a regular basis and always won.

Mac always has trouble with one person.

Read the OP, obey MVF rules, stop wrecking threads.

Getting the names and numbers of your opponents, dude, even I would think to do this.

He worked out shit. "Why you gonna nuke the building, Hans?" Hans had to TELL him.



haermm Murtaugh saved Riggs' life ONCE, in LW4.

In LW2, the S African unloaded on Riggs, he literally threw his gun away when he was outta ammo, was no longer a threat. Murtaugh rolled up after and killed him.

They BOTH had help, in ALL their movies. Riggs had it from one guy, Mac had it from different people. What's the difference?





Read the OP, So, does Riggs clear? If not, how far does he get? Riggs is in his prime (LW 1 and 2) for all four missions.



So, does Riggs clear?


D9y3mjoc1hg&feature=related

Said the biggest wrecker of threads that KMC has seen.
You are the enemy of logic, the molestor of reason, the abuser of rules.


Well, judging on LW1 feats, then Riggs is still screwed.
And if he couldn't understand how to defend against a Rookie's jab by 3, it goes without saying that he didn't know in 1 or 2.

Nah Riggs did no such thing "On a regular basis"...not anyone worth bragging about having killed, anyway...stooges...crap henchmen etc

McClane actually beat and killed more than Riggs and Murtaugh put together, so by your "Well, unarmed or not, they were all killed" point, Mac still wins.


Murtaugh saves Rigg's Life in every movie.
He shoots Joshua. (After gimping the fight with police prescence and backing)
LW2: Saves Riggs during the chase on the freeway... after Riggs is shot down and takes out the main bad guy.
LW3: Totally saves Riggs against Jack Travis in the burning estate.
Launa saves his ass for the 1st time also.
LW4: Totally saves Riggs' life against Jet Li at the end.

There are probably other instances too. I'll list them as I re-pile through the movies.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Said the biggest wrecker of threads that KMC has seen.
You are the enemy of logic, the molestor of reason, the abuser of rules.

haermm

501st/Hogwarts thread: Mine.
All jedi/Wizard threads: Mine.

Fact.


1 and 2 only, babe. Come in, you can do it.

crylaugh You're beyond help. You're the ultimate McClane fanboy on this planet.

My what? Explain.

Mac has a higher body count because of the Jumbo jet. I coulda dropped a zippo in the fuel.


No, he doesn't



Riggs shot him too. Riggs coulda done it alone.


What scene? I call BS.


No. Riggs would have gotten up, climbed over the bucket of the loader, and capped Jack.

No, she didn't.

Riggs handled Li WAY better than Mac woulda done.

Every single bit of that post is uberfail.

You're insane. Mac did some ****in' crazy shit in that movie. Like the elevator scene? He made that jump by his ****ing fingertips. Does Riggs have the strength for that? Becuase he'll need ALOT of it. And then he actually beat Karl after getting his feet shredded and shot in the shoulder. And then the scene where he jumped off the roof? Crazy as ****.

Mac was borderline superhuman in that movie moron.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're insane. Mac did some ****in' crazy shit in that movie. Like the elevator scene? He made that jump by his ****ing fingertips. Does Riggs have the strength for that? Becuase he'll need ALOT of it. And then he actually beat Karl after getting his feet shredded and shot in the shoulder. And then the scene where he jumped off the roof? Crazy as ****.

Mac was borderline superhuman in that movie moron.

QFT

Thats fu*king Shakespeare, son....!!!

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're insane. Mac did some ****in' crazy shit in that movie. Like the elevator scene? He made that jump by his ****ing fingertips. Does Riggs have the strength for that? Becuase he'll need ALOT of it. And then he actually beat Karl after getting his feet shredded and shot in the shoulder. And then the scene where he jumped off the roof? Crazy as ****.

Mac was borderline superhuman in that movie moron. I was talking about his investigatory skills. Moron? haermm Nice.

This "superhuman strength", where was it when he was fighting? Remember the moment he had Karl in a headlock? Riggs woulda killed him right then and there. SNAP goes the neck. How? With superior fighting skill. Two handed neck break= Superior strength. Remember when Mac had Karl's brother at gunpoint and gave him an elbow to the head? It didn't even faze him. Riggs did the same move when he rescued Rog and it KO'd the guy the **** out.


The roof scene? Riggs wouldn't have had to jump. He would have killed Karl and the other two with only his Beretta. Proof? LW2, the raid on the Alba Varden.

Wanna talk crazy? A bayonet through the leg and six .44's to the lung and living.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Every single bit of that post is uberfail. No, your failure to provide a legitimate counter if uber fail. You had to rely on Neph. And I pwned his reply.


Anything else? Six .44's to the lung? Two handed neck breaking? Neck breaking with legs? Hmm? Taking on 5 men unarmed?

Hmm?

So what if he broke a couple of stooges necks...?
If he had broken Jet Li's neck I'd have been impressed. But no. That only works for Riggs on stooges. McClane has broken necks too.

Im still waiting to see that "taking on 5 men unarmed" feat.

Riggs breaks necks with his hands. Mac relies on a fall down stairs haermm

Skill? Riggs.

He breaks the neck of a pussy with his bare hards.

McClane had him in a legitimate headlock on the fall.

Then why'd Riggs not break Jet Li's Neck?

Or all the south africans....?

Or Jack Travis and his men...?

Methinks you overestimate Riggs majorly.

Riggs broke the necks of many men. At least half a dozen.

Mac didn't plan that, don't even try it.

LOL Name those times.

It doesnt matter.

In LW2 he at least broke 3, in LW1 2. 5-6, ish.

Where did these 5-6ish neck breaks occur in LW1....?
(I watched LW1 a few days ago and only saw Endo and the guy on the way out in the escape.)

And where were the ones on LW2...? (Im a couple of weeks away from my rewatch.)

Links to these, please.

Indo, then dude after that. He coulda broke Joshua's with ease.

LW2, the 2 S Africans from the dock scene.


4-5, I was one off.

Well thats one off in the wrong direction.

All wet paper bag strength stooges.


Ha. If Riggs was as good as you maintain, then Surely Riggs wouldn't have needed Roger to shoot him, and he would have closed the range immediately with his lightning speed and broken Joshua's neck the second he saw Joshua fu*king with the officer's gun.

Had Murtaugh not talked him out of it, Joshua's neck would have been broken.

Wasn't Roger telling him to "break his fu*king neck"? I thought Riggs heard that and declined. Either way, he couldn't execute it in the actual fight.

Wait, you're right.

Riggs then said "It aint worth it."

He could have, he showed mercy.

DH1: He clears, can't see much trouble in this scenario for me he might even end it while Hans is talking to Takagi, Riggs is a lot more in-your-face than McClane. He would clear the Karl fight if he went that way but he would make sure he nailed him afterwards. His accuracy is without question so he would clear the end scene, maybe not the same way but he uses distraction techniques himself so its not unlikely he'll joke around then take them out.

DH2: He clears this but with his fighting ability the bit at the end might be tricky, when he clears Major Grant and Col. Stuart he's still left with a plane full of Army guys (he won't survive going this way). What Riggs might to differently is force the chopper pilot (at gunpoint) to fly to the front of the plane so he can take out Esperanza with his gun. The plane crashes, everyone dies.

DH3: This might be tricky as Riggs might not be as fully focused on the bombs and may go straight for Simon the usual way by mowing down his men. But I think he would be smart enough to figure them out though... everything else he would complete but in a different way.

DH4: Again, I don't see a problem in the main H2Hs or action sequences but protection isn't Riggs's strong point so the computer guy might be killed unforunately... I mean eventually he keeps everyone safe in the LW movies but he is a bit lax so without the computer guy it would make it a bit more difficult to track down Gabriel.

How's Riggs going to take out two gunmen in a chopper when he runs out of bullets?

Originally posted by Robtard
How's Riggs going to take out two gunmen in a chopper when he runs out of bullets?

Who says he runs out of bullets? No scenario has to go the same way. Riggs is a better shot therefore expends less ammo to take out his targets. I'm not sayin McClane isn't accurate but he uses a lot more covering fire while Riggs's shots are better placed.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Who says he runs out of bullets? No scenario has to go the same way. Riggs is a better shot therefore expends less ammo to take out his targets. I'm not sayin McClane isn't accurate but he uses a lot more covering fire while Riggs's shots are better placed.

Before the helicoptor scene McClane didn't go 80's action-flick and fire hundreds of round for no apparent reason.

So, what does Riggs do versus a copter with two machine-gun men; while he's trying to protect a nerd? Cos launching cars like heat-seeking missiles isn't in his repertoire.

Originally posted by Robtard
Before the helicoptor scene McClane didn't go 80's action-flick and fire hundreds of round for no apparent reason.

So, what does Riggs do versus a copter with two machine-gun men; while he's trying to protect a nerd? Cos launching cars like heat-seeking missiles isn't in his repertoire.

If McClane didn't go '80s action flick' then why was he out of ammo in the first place?

If Riggs, in HIS way of approaching the scenario still had his gun and ammo I don't forsee a problem. He'd just shoot the pilot, the helicopter crashes, bad guys with machine guns die. If he didn't have his gun he could retreat into the tunnel and wait for them to come to him, then run them down in a car if they got too close. Or use the cars for cover and take them out H2H and use their own weapons against them; he's certainly done that before.

Lastly, just because Riggs hasn't done the exact trick of 'flying into a helicopter with a car' doesn't mean that he wouldn't be crazy enough to try. And the conditions in the scene are convenient enough for the possibility.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
If McClane didn't go '80s action flick' then why was he out of ammo in the first place?

If Riggs, in HIS way of approaching the scenario still had his gun and ammo I don't forsee a problem. He'd just shoot the pilot, the helicopter crashes, bad guys with machine guns die. If he didn't have his gun he could retreat into the tunnel and wait for them to come to him, then run them down in a car if they got too close. Or use the cars for cover and take them out H2H and use their own weapons against them; he's certainly done that before.

Lastly, just because Riggs hasn't done the exact trick of 'flying into a helicopter with a car' doesn't mean that he wouldn't be crazy enough to try. And the conditions in the scene are convenient enough for the possibility.

I'd have to watch the beginning again to be certain, but likely because detectives don't carry 10 clips around with them.

Take aim and shoot the pilot while two machine-guns are tearing from above? Don't know. Run over two (possibly three) machine-gun men while avoiding all the bullets that would be flying into the car? Murtaugh isn't here to distract with his chicken-dance, dude.

The only reason the car flew up and out like that is because it was McClane; Riggs' doesn't have a McClane-factor.

What about the F-35 lightning?

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
DH1: He clears, can't see much trouble in this scenario for me he might even end it while Hans is talking to Takagi, Riggs is a lot more in-your-face than McClane. He would clear the Karl fight if he went that way but he would make sure he nailed him afterwards. His accuracy is without question so he would clear the end scene, maybe not the same way but he uses distraction techniques himself so its not unlikely he'll joke around then take them out.

DH2: He clears this but with his fighting ability the bit at the end might be tricky, when he clears Major Grant and Col. Stuart he's still left with a plane full of Army guys (he won't survive going this way). What Riggs might to differently is force the chopper pilot (at gunpoint) to fly to the front of the plane so he can take out Esperanza with his gun. The plane crashes, everyone dies.

DH3: This might be tricky as Riggs might not be as fully focused on the bombs and may go straight for Simon the usual way by mowing down his men. But I think he would be smart enough to figure them out though... everything else he would complete but in a different way.

DH4: Again, I don't see a problem in the main H2Hs or action sequences but protection isn't Riggs's strong point so the computer guy might be killed unforunately... I mean eventually he keeps everyone safe in the LW movies but he is a bit lax so without the computer guy it would make it a bit more difficult to track down Gabriel. Well said.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'd have to watch the beginning again to be certain, but likely because detectives don't carry 10 clips around with them.

Take aim and shoot the pilot while two machine-guns are tearing from above? Run over two (possibly three) machine-gun men while avoiding all the bullets that would be flying into the car?

The only reason the car flew up and out like that is because it was McClane; Riggs' doesn't have a McClane-factor.

What about the F-35 lightning?


Neither does Riggs carry that much (10 clips, heh) but I can't remember many scenes where he actually ran out of ammo while facing down a bigger threat.

Riggs has been under fire before and and took out machine gunners, even in LW4 when he was 'declining' he took out the chinese gunners from a large distance one-handed while they were shining a spotlight at him. The assault on his home after he'd bedded Rika (LW2) he took out multiple machine gunners (ironically coming in on helicopters, how about that?), he used the cover available while he also took their weaponry and used it on them. Running them down though, I agree would't be a wise move.

The McClane Factor? You mean standard unrealistic action movie luck-factor.

The jet, McClane did nothing, a piece of debris damaged it and McClane just held on then jumped off, I watched the scene last night on TV so its fresh. Riggs has good stickability(if thats a word), in case you make the point he might fall off, how many moving vehicles has Riggs held onto? Lots.

What about the F-35 lightning? You're acting like the scene will go down exactly as it did with McClane.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What about the F-35 lightning? You're acting like the scene will go down exactly as it did with McClane.

There would be an F-35 Lightning trying to destroy him while he's driving a truck on the freeway.

If not, then it's not really Riggs in DH4, it's Riggs in something you made up that has some similarities to a DH film(s).

Originally posted by Robtard
There would be an F-35 Lightning trying to destroy him while he's driving a truck on the freeway.

If not, then it's not really Riggs in DH4, it's Riggs in something you made up that has some similarities to a DH film(s). No, that doesn't necessarily HAVE to happen. McClane put himself in that situation.

No McClane did not order an airstrike on himself.

Riggs has to face the F-35. (Then presumably 10 mins of slow roast later, he will be assessed and certified again, but this time by the coroner....when they've gathered the pieces they could actually ID.)

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wait, you're right.

Riggs then said "It aint worth it."

He could have, he showed mercy.


Well it certainly indicates that Riggs THOUGHT he could have.

But we'll never know. Joshua might have bitten Riggs nutsack off in a last desperate ploy, if he knew Riggs was gonna try for the snap-o-finish.

All we know is, that he couldnt do it mid fight, when it counted.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well it certainly indicates that Riggs THOUGHT he could have.

But we'll never know. Joshua might have bitten Riggs nutsack off in a last desperate ploy, if he knew Riggs was gonna try for the snap-o-finish.

All we know is, that he couldnt do it mid fight, when it counted. Well, Riggs broke Indo's neck easy as shit. Joshua, well, Riggs had him in an even easier position to do so. Simple math.

If you exclude the very real possiblity that Riggs lacked the strength in his legs at that point to do it.

Evidence for this: He could barely even stand after and was clearly spent..

He kicked Joshua away and said it wasn't worth it, he didn't say oh **** I'm tired.

His body language did say that actually a little tired 'kick' means little.

Look at Riggs slumping into Rog's bosom, destoyed as Joshua starts to mess with the officers' holstered gun.

If he wasn't collapsing into his partners moobs from exhaustion, then what WAS he doing it for...? Murataughmoobjuice?

You ever been in a real fight? Not a match, but a street fight?

Yes. A few.. And I did very well indeed, cheers.

But whats clear from your assessment things Riggs wise, is that you havent.

Otherwise you would:
A) Recognise how slow Riggs/one move at a time non-combos are.

B) See how much of his stuff is just flash for the cameras, that if you tried to pull of against someone who steamed forward with combos,
hed be dead.

C) Know that anyone who can't parry even protect against or avoid even a rookie's Jab is absolutely f***ed.

Sure, Riggs is so slow that he was able to take on 4-5 men at a time and kick their ass.

Better than Mac, poor bugger had trouble with one man at a time. One GIRL at a time.

Nope. No trouble there.
He KOed that girl.

Then when she woke up and and utterly failed to kill McClane by kicking him through a window, before McKilled her.

She was on fire with a car in her ass, yet she won somehow according to you.....

Oh he beat her, but it was more than a chore for him.

Yes. He hates hitting women, by the looks of it.

He tried to let it go at her being made unconscious, but she wanted round 2.

Which she got......directly in her ass.

And the Colonel? lerch? But yeah, he's good h2h though wanker

When he takes on 4-5 men with only h2h combat, hollah.

Yeah He was. Lerch was seriously powerful. He had McDamage soak. Riggs couldn't have beaten him H2H.

Well in fairness the feat you say Riggs did that in, wasn't unarmed, except that second guy.


I see that emoticon there. That you with your wizard book that has Brad Pitt's face cellotaped over all the wizard's faces? Yeah it looks like that kinda stroke. I recognise the rhythm from the many threads where youlike to fantasize that HP kiddy magic can beat The Force and all of the characters and technologies of the SW galaxy.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yeah He was. Lerch was seriously powerful. He had McDamage soak. Riggs couldn't have beaten him H2H.

Well in fairness the feat you say Riggs did that in, wasn't unarmed, except that second guy.


I see that emoticon there. That you with your wizard book that has Brad Pitt's face cellotaped over all the wizard's faces? Yeah it looks like that kinda stroke. I recognise the rhythm from the many threads where youlike to fantasize that HP kiddy magic can beat The Force and all of the characters and technologies of the SW galaxy.
haermm Riggs woulda kicked the shit outta Lerch, dude.

Triad, dude.

Lame.

Nah, Not judging by LW screenfeats.

Nah not lame at all.

Triad, dude. Rescuing Murtaugh, dude. 4-5 opponents at a time, dude.

Same Triad that Jet Li was in (that kicked Riggs ass all over the place..?)
Yeah. It was.

Well its a good job none of them used a basic jab.

LW4 would have been like 30mins long then.


See thats another reson that Riggs would have lost in a DH gauntlet, at some point he'd meet opponents who through straight, non faggy powerful boxing type shots, then Riggs would fold like an empty wet paper bag with cement beiong dumped on it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well it certainly indicates that Riggs THOUGHT he could have.

But we'll never know. Joshua might have bitten Riggs nutsack off in a last desperate ploy, if he knew Riggs was gonna try for the snap-o-finish.

All we know is, that he couldnt do it mid fight, when it counted.

He couldn't have killed him in cold blood anyway, they were surrounded by cops, Joshua was no longer a threat so it would have been illegal.

Indeed.

Yeah cause Riggs is SO observant of the every little law.

He lets prostitutes off, (Often bringing them back home) Smashes private and city property willfully and remorselessly, he badgers suspects against the will of his superiors, and breaks regs and police MOs constantly.
He blew up a building and got demoted for it, as he bucked procedure and took and botched the Bomb Squad's job.

"Yeah I could read the sign, but I dont give a f**k" - Martin Riggs LW 2, to his boss in the office.


Even Murtaugh had justified the unorthodox situation to his fellow cops with "That sumbitch just killed two of our guys".

So nahhhh cant see that being a problem for Riggs, when hes that bent on trying to f**k someone up, as he clearly was by the Joshua fight.

Wow, you just compared Riggs smoking in a non smoking area to Riggs killing someone in cold blood.


Objectivity....Non existent.

He kills a lot of guys in cold blood.

Not when they are on the ground, unable to defend themselves. Mac neither.

He walked up to a dude in the club who was unarmed, Riggs pulled him onto a gun and shot him in the chest several times before continuing on coldly.

It was actually a discussion piece in LW1 about how Riggs was pre-emptively killing in cold blood and Murtaugh wanted him to stop doing it and just to shoot em in the leg and arrest em instead...
Think they discussed it just before the swimming pool.

That was one of Joshua's goons. If Riggs hadn't of killed him, he woulda killed Riggs.


Try again.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yeah cause Riggs is SO observant of the every little law.

He lets prostitutes off, (Often bringing them back home) Smashes private and city property willfully and remorselessly, he badgers suspects against the will of his superiors, and breaks regs and police MOs constantly.
He blew up a building and got demoted for it, as he bucked procedure and took and botched the Bomb Squad's job.

"Yeah I could read the sign, but I dont give a f**k" - Martin Riggs LW 2, to his boss in the office.


Even Murtaugh had justified the unorthodox situation to his fellow cops with "That sumbitch just killed two of our guys".

So nahhhh cant see that being a problem for Riggs, when hes that bent on trying to f**k someone up, as he clearly was by the Joshua fight.

Let me put it in another way, if the fight had gone the same way up to that point and lets say they were fighting in an abandoned warehouse (no cops), Riggs would have snapped his neck upon taking him to the ground.

The point is, I know Riggs does insanely 'illegal' things but snapping a defeated mans neck on his partners lawn with cops surrounding them would be pushing credibility, even for an action movie.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
It was actually a discussion piece in LW1 about how Riggs was pre-emptively killing in cold blood and Murtaugh wanted him to stop doing it and just to shoot em in the leg and arrest em instead...
Think they discussed it just before the swimming pool.

No Murtaugh was against Riggs doing anything crazy or suicidal, the only issue he had was that while he would wound an armed threat, Riggs would kill them. The threat is always there whenever Riggs kills.

Well he is a crazy guy in rage... Crazy people in rages do crazy things that unarmed bar guy he preemptively vent that guy at the bar.

But your point stands.

A countering question. What would have happened if Joshua would have broken Rigg's neck..? Would the cops engage Joshua H2H after seeing the danger of getting into it with a guy who has shot two of their buddys and then broke/killed their best H2H guy with his bare hands, or would they just have shot Joshua...?

Anyway Joshua didn't look very 'defeated' when he was struggling with cops to successfully acquire one of their firearms to me.
He looked defeated though after he took gunshots from Murtaugh then Riggs.


Anyways.. A significantly overlooked fact:
That fight should be discounted as a H2H encounter, on the grounds that they used weapons.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well he is a crazy guy in rage... Crazy people in rages do crazy things that unarmed bar guy he preemptively vent that guy at the bar.

But your point stands.

A countering question. What would have happened if Joshua would have broken Rigg's neck..? Would the cops engage Joshua H2H after seeing the danger of getting into it with a guy who has shot two of their buddys and then broke/killed their best H2H guy with his bare hands, or would they just have shot Joshua...?

Anyway Joshua didn't look very 'defeated' when he was struggling with cops to successfully acquire one of their firearms to me.
He looked defeated though after he took gunshots from Murtaugh then Riggs.


Anyways.. A significantly overlooked fact:
That fight should be discounted as a H2H encounter, on the grounds that they used weapons.

I believe Joshua would have been shot, but then again they could have just rushed him, him being tired/disoriented after the fight. Joshua was however 'defeated' in the context of the H2H because Joshua had no way to counter Riggs final move and was for several moments unable to get to his feet on his own, unless he was playing possum but he looked spent to me initially.

It is a H2H fight because the majority of the fight was punching/kicking /grappling, the only blemish was the introduction of the nightstick and Joshuas weapon, but that was brief and hardly impacted the fight because Riggs chose to discard it to use his fist even when he had the upper hand.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Let me put it in another way, if the fight had gone the same way up to that point and lets say they were fighting in an abandoned warehouse (no cops), Riggs would have snapped his neck upon taking him to the ground.

The point is, I know Riggs does insanely 'illegal' things but snapping a defeated mans neck on his partners lawn with cops surrounding them would be pushing credibility, even for an action movie. Riggs does shit h2h Mac can only dream of.

If he dreams in slow-mo, with one block/move at a time, that is...

If Rigg's opponents know how to throw straight lefts and right punches Rigg's dreams become nightmares.

When has Mac ever killed two men with his bare hands, in seconds?

Never.


Moving on.

You know the tow H2H fights you keep going on about as big Riggs H2H feats...?

They're inadmissible.
Against Joshua, he employed a Police issue nightstick.

In the rescue-at-the-club-backroom, he used a body, and a gun through most of the kills.



I mean if THATs your definition of H2H the McClane killed 15 marines in a few seconds just by moving his thumb. (On a zippo flint wheel.)

That action is WAY less that the action Rigg's weap- erm I mean "Hands" got.

McWin-win, with a clear and large side order of fries with asswhupped sauce.

He used a nightstick because Joshua had armed himself.

He used a gun in the club scene, because the others were all armed.

Flicking a zippo and dropping it is not a h2h combat feat.

Yes Both sides were armed.
Rendering it inadmissible as a pure H2H fight you always maintained it was.

Yes another scene you falsely claimed as a Riggs H2H win lots of times over.

Its certainly as H2H than YOUR cited examples above.

I said the scene where he actually rescues Murtaugh was h2h, then went to guns. You know the scene I mean, the one Mac cannot replicate.

Thats all one scene. And you maintained before that Riggs killed them all h2h, back in the days when you thought that Riggs doing all that then running after a car and heading of at a pass was /exceptional impressive somehow.

McClane doesnt HAVE to replicate it. He enters room with Dead torturers gun or a clubbing item (A torturer probably has many hurty things around) and pistol whips the second guy after the 1st is overpowered by the body throwing. He shoots the rest, says Yippeekiyay motherfu**er, and splits.

Credits.

I said he started h2h, then went to guns. Pay attention.

It was one sequence that started with Riggs using a dude as human shield then throwing him into another dude.. You see any breathers being stopped for?

Nah. Cause your talking complete bollocks.

He had him on his shoulders, then threw him. The shield, well, he beat the shit outta him first.

Human shields= Cool.

But if you're in an unarmed combat scenario, its a bit on the disqualifying side.... Kinda like entering an Arm wrestling competition and expecting eye gouges and nutshots to be accepted within the rules... it just doesn't gel.