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is the Bible , in your opinion , fact or fiction ?

It's bullshit as far as I'm concerned. As South Park said, it's a collection of stories that help guide you through your life, not to be taken literally or seriously.

Its a fact!!!!! I believe with all my heart it's the real deal.

personally i think at one time it may have been fact but over the many years it has been rewritten to what man wants you to believe is Gods word..........


now at this point its a collection of fiction of stories put together by man .

Depends on what bible you're reading from. The King James Version is what was translated for english then all the other verisions started coming out. that one is still the same. God will direct you and guide you also to the truth and what the Word means.

i know what the King James version is , and its my strong belief that this has been changed as well to fit into what man wants you to believe .

the Old Testament i dont believe...the New Testament yes.

and i dunno why im like that...but the OT seems odd...

agreed.

Woah! ignoring for the moment the political and economic reasons for the KJB springing into existence even the rules by which the translation was made allow for discrepancy and latitude.

"The ordinary Bible.... to be as little altered as the Truth of the original will permit."

"The names of the Prophets...to be retained, as nigh as may be"

Lots of leeway there don't you think?

PLUS: The KJB originaly contained the apocrypha, and thats kinda conveniently fallen by the wayside

The bible is a fairy tale for old boring people with no sense of humor

im going to sleep soon...but what about Zend Avesta...that was a very interesting belief by the Persians...i believe this WAS the first religion...i maybe wrong but i think this was one of the first and then came hinduism (Bhagata-Gita) etc etc..

excuse mau but i have a GREAT sence of humor. Just cuz one is a christain doesn't mean they are not fun to be around.

hmmm, this is gonna turn ugly I believe...

to me, the bible is a combo... yeah, Jeruzalem is real, the consensus is real, there perhaps was a leader perhaps even named Mozes that guided jewish people away from egypt (that last part is real)...

but there being a god or people doing miracles and stuff is complete and utter (as BF put it: ) bullshit

thats a god point yers , i do believe the Bible has been rewritten many times . man changed it from what God intended it to be.......

i have no dobt that the storeie in the Bible were at one time fact but i also think since man rewrote it to fit what they wanted it to be , they took and made a mountain out of a mole hill with these storie .

fabricated and exagurated turning the Bible to fiction......

i believe there is a God but not the same vengful God portraid in the Book man made him/her to be that way .

that wasn't my point shellie, but hey, if it works, it works

that is really really ignorant

oh , then i misunderstood you sweetie ....

sorry about that .

This thread is just asking for trouble.

I dont know how much its truth and how much is fiction, since i never read it, but im sure it wasnt ment to be taken literaly.

ive never read it!

you havent missed out on anything

i guess no one knows about Zend Avesta

the sacred book of the east

well theres one person

I agree that the bible has been changed to fit what other men think ppl should be doing. Its not real, it might have been at one point.
And to Shellies comment about God being all vengeful; That was God in the old Testament but in the new Testament he changes to a loving God.

its ironic how a God can change like that^

as i said before, the New Testament is more "convincing" than the Old Testament.

well, i think the reason he changed was cuz the whole Jesus coming and then dying for us thing.

i doubt it the church is hiding things from us

I think that Bible is only work of people. nothing of it said God. I don't agree with many things in Bible and I don't believe that it is God's opinion!!!

I think it's loosely based on fact.
But those facts have been molested and manipulated over the years.

I think it's a waste of time to remember every verse of the bible and live your life by it.

oh and about him changing from vengeful to loving... I'm not sure who said, it, but I believe it was Anselmus who said that our vision of caring and our vision of being vengeful are different from that of god

you make it sound like I'm making a problem of it

no problem sexy ,

Unfortunately, the material has as a matter of course been tampered with a great deal by ill motivated people so alot of it is not what should be cannon.

The Bible has been rewritten, agreed there. But when you pray to God and ask him for Wisdom/knowledge and understanding of the word of God w/clarity, He will show you what the Word of God means. He will give you the answers you're searching for. I do believe the bible is real, just as the wind is real, He is REAL.

some of it will be tosh ... i mean the earth flooding and being saved by one man and his boat.. .. really but the other things in ther ( which i dont now of cuz i havent read it in a while ) could and would happen....

They have found Noahs ark to prove that it did happen.

in my opinion, there may have been a book written over 2000 years ago, it's evidentally not here, man has taken this so called 'bible' and written it for his own greed, as usual, nowadays the church uses this re written lump of cheese as a set of laws, sure dont rape your sister or wahtever, but thats common knowledge anyway, and besides, the church is limiting scientific research because it is 'ungodly' think this,if there was a god, why, when he gaves us brain matter would he have let us use this much of our brains, to sit and poke sticks in mud? i think not, we use them for our on beneficial evoloution, and we can only improve ourselves with research... of which in turn is quite blatantly SCIENCE, so the pope can go stick his pope stick where his 'god' wont go. im on a major rant dammit!

sure get a few bits of half rotten wood and stick em in the most uncommon place... OMG ITS NOAH'S ARK!!! no offence, but he made that of wood right? that is if it is real, and as far as i know, when wood is cut from its tree, it eventually dies after about 100 maybe 300 years, then it slowly rots, so ... no boat

hmm so you don't believe in the bible?

very true ... but just saying something to compare realistic stuff to utter crap ... but i suppose it is like chinese whispers...stories get passed on through time and tiny bits of begin to change until the story they had at the beginning is nothing like the one at the end....

TRue true, but if you read the bible, the stories are still the same, people just may not be repeating them correctly.

true....

why does everyone think that this god is male anyway? it could be female! or it's just an alien

mite be a bit of both

umm Cuz he made male first.

A - sexual actually, organisms that do not clone to reproduce, non copulating

ok but i aint very good at science and things like that ne more

me either hehehe I just know that God is real. His word is real.

God isn't male - The Christian God is a trinity : Father, Son and Holy Ghost. All the early (Pre KJB) evidence suggest that the ruwach (Holy Spirit) was gender neutral or sometimes (in ancient hymnals) feminine in nature.

It only becomes masculine when translated into Latin or English.

very true.

I thk we're kinda getting off alittle on what the thread is about heheehe is the bible fact or fiction. fact fact fact i say

it depends kinda, i can look at the new testement and say i think it is fact, but the old testiment you CANNOT take literaly. i think thats what alot of the people here do as a way to bash the bible...or whatever they are thrying to do. you cant take literaly that the world was made in seven days, because science tells us its not possible. the bible and science are two different things also. it is immosible for everything in the bible to be scientifictly(sp) proven possible. just cant happen. the old testement speaks in stories so that the people living at the time of the bible could understand it. they didnt have the knowledge of science that we do today.

i believe that the bible is true with all my heart!!! some things are a little hard to explain eg. the extinction of dinosaurs but i believe that it is completely true!
And i agree sith Fiery Eyes!

I believe in the Bible with all my heart. I also believe many things in the Bible may not have actually happend, or atleast not in the way they are portrayed. Over the centuries that the Bible has been passed down and re-interperted I believe there may have been embelishments or flat out biased tranfers. However, i do believe that the essece of Gods word still remains. Though the stories seem overwhelmingly unbelievvable, i dont think they were meant to be taken literally, but as a metaphor. The road to damnation is wide and the raod to heaven is narrow. Jesus spoke to the apostles so that his word would be heard through out times, and to restore order in times that had no order. I know after Jesus's word, Order was given to a wrold with no order. This influence inspired people who diddnt believe in God And God's word can be related to any one and anything. His word plows on even if the Bible's original form doesnt.

I find this whole "I believe in jesus but take the bible as metaphor" compromise that people seem to be able to make a little laughable - the whole point of the bible is that it is the indisputable word of god. Thats THE WORD OF GOD people. Its not open to your interpretation, if you buy Christianity you buy they whole package, you cant hand back the parts you are uncomfortable with.

Or - rather - thanks to free will , you can hand them back, but you will burn in everlasting hell for doing so come the last judgment.

See you there!!!

There ya go!!! I agree, if you believe in parts you shld believe in all. It has been proven that the Red Sea was parted, many things in the bible have been proven fact.

I believe in the bible and the storys are a wonderful guide to live your life as jesus did, but it can't be taken literally.

If it were we'd still be chopping hands off when people stole things.

hahahaha!

the bible is true....

well, ya know in other countrys they do!!! and jsut cuz the govmt changes laws don't mean the bible isn't real.

I think the bible is real i'm just saying that not everything in there should be taken literally.

even as symbolic it is, i dont take it for real. the old testament im having trouble with believing, but the new testament i believe.

I believe in it all!! somethings can be hard to understand in the old testement, i still believe tho

No, bible wasnt written by the god, it was written by the people who thought the earth was flat!

there is no truth at this point. i just believe in what i was brought up with.

the earth IS flat...trust me.

how true!

God told the people what to write and the Word was written

no proof in that. but yes thats what we are told

Are you intentionally misinterpreting what i write to undermine my point, to mock me and make jokes at my expense ?

If so. Nice!

No am not mocking you and i'm sorry if you thought that.

no they say that it theoretically could have been parted, it even gone so far that some claims that Aliens parted the Red Sea for Moses just as far fetched as a divine intervention. Even so they aint sure as to where this so called crossing have occurred, the translation in the bible say Red Sea but many think it is a misinterpretation of the Hebrew text.
What puzzles me a bit about this entire exodus story is that for the Jews it was a seminal event, but a catastrophe for Egypt but there aint mentioned a hing about these events in records of Egypt.
(The loss of the Egyptian armed forces would leave Egypt open and extremly vulnerable to any foreign invasion)


werent a trinity from the start though, the OT had an avenging God acting alone.

I thought I heard that there were jewish slaves in egypt at work, they found bowls and such in some slave quarters? and that they also found out that a small group (NOT all) left egypt?

I think that God isn't male or female, He is whatever you want. he could be animal if you are ready to believe it. simply God is everything...

Well,
Lets look at it scientificly shall we?
So there are how many different religions in the history of the world? Too many so I will just take the major religions of today.

Christianity (and all its little sects)
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddihsm

Now we can all saftly say that people in each religion firmly believe that their god exists and all others don't. The exception is buddihsm, but we'll go with that for now.
Now according to that you have a 1 in 5 chance of picking the correct religion, assuming that none overlap or have the same god.

But then we forget to rule in the Atheists and the people who believe in god but not in a religion (Forget the name)
Thats a 1 in 7 chance of getting it right, Without looking at even what they say.
So who wants to take a gamble??

Have you ever felt the presence of God? have you ever seen his works? his miracles? Have you ever seen him take a drug attic, and clean him/her up? put a marriage back together? Heal a woman that had head aches for over 7 yrs? Put a Artery in someones heart? Save a person that shld hve died in wreck?

Nope!
I've seen people do that, though,
If you want to see God everywhere, you will. If you don't care you wont its howyou enterprete things. A drug addict cleaning them self up could be will-power or any number of things, it doesnt HAVE to be God all the time.
Marrages will get back together because the people just needed some time to realize how much in love they were. You never know what you have till its gone.

Never heard of the rest. But tylonol works well on headaches.

But who says thats the work of a Christian God? wy not Allah, the Muslim god? or Yahweh, the Jewish God. Who says

actually the ppl who built the pyramids and crap like that werent slaves. They were just really poor ppl but were actually payed for their work.

You think of yourself too higly if you think that id waste my posts and time to mock you.

SR, you're right, I spotted it too late, couldn't edit it out anymore
sorry


have you ever seen misery in the world? lack of "miracles"? Have you ever seem a druggie go on overdose and go into coma only to die the same day later on? seen a marriage after 25 years of a smooth running brake up because the two persons grew away from eachother? Saw a woman die who had breastcancer for five years? Let someone who didn't drink or smoke and had a healthy life die from a cardiac arrest? saw a person die in a head-on-crash and the drunk one who caused it walk away unharmed?

come on, for every thing you wrote there is an opposite that happened numerous times too

Bible: Fact or Fiction? Ummm.... I really don't know. I seriously doubt anyone here in KMC or in the rest of the world can say is fact or fiction. None of us were there when it was written and none of us know the real truth. Most likely we will know if it's true once we die.

you sure? Tex IS rather old y'know

Aesop told better stories than the Bible. Atleast they had a moral at the end.

Religion...is a joke, and probably the #1 cause for war...ALL TIME.

When you die, i will not see you in heaven or hell...infact, i won't see you at all. i'll be dead...and so will you.

Well Karl Marx said that religion is the 'opium of the masses'

Im sure everyone knew that, i was just stating it

atleast we see eye to eye on this Lil's

not that you agree word for word or anything because i'm really blunt with my beliefs. But i totally agree with your post in the other God related thread about Religion being the skankiest of evils.

Ya, I lover Aesop

Haha, but seriously, I agree. Those stories had points to them, they suggested ways of living without being too heavy, not just a load of orders on how we have to live in fear of consequence. Like the Bible IMO.

"i'll be dead...and so will you." I liked the way you put that, but remember it's your opinion because you don't (appear) to believe in afterlife or reincarnation.

Pffft, we'll find a way.......

much like i can't believe in God. Because i don't believe in things that don't exsist.

What's easier to believe, once you die...there's nothing.

or that there's actually Gold Gates with puffy white clouds and everything great that I could ever imagine up there.

I'll take nothingness...because atleast that's believable.

For once i have to disagree. I strongly believe in the bible and God and I believe that when you die you either go to heaven or hell. I'm not saying that there's going to be golden gates and all that. But I do believe that there's a place for the believers and a place for the non-believers.

the stories in the bible esp the old testatment was before it was written an oratorical history of myths and legends of the ancient semitic tribes that wandered the fertile crescent...overtime those stories became the basis for the written text...

however, because it divined inspired and human hands and ears witnessed these ancient words it is without a doubt and quite probably filled with genuine human errors...or deliberate to suit the needs the individual or the masses...like a campfire story game, after a telling that's been passed over twenty times the original story changes once returned to the author of the story...

fact or fiction???

fact: there is a bible filled with stories both tragic and heroic
fiction: it cannot be taken as the literal truth

You disagree...

but what exactly do you believe in?

"There is a place"

Where is it? what's it like? Will God be there? Will you finally find out what God looks like?

so you're saying that i'm going to a different place than you because i'm a non-believer and you're a believer? What if you were a psychotic serial killer who was religious? would you still end up in a different place than non-believers.

How come when you get knocked out or flat line at a hospital...you can't remember anything? Probably because your brain stops functioning (momentarily)

Your brain thinks up these lovely places like Heaven and Hell. When your brain shuts off (death) then those places cease to exsist.

i dont believe the whole thing is fiction but i believe some of the storys in there where made up to show a deeper meaning and have morals to them....like the story of Noah, the Ark, and the Flood. or adam and eve(cause what happened to the dinosaurs? where do they come in?), Jesus walking on water, Jonah being swallowed by a whale, ect. It was made for a good reason and not saying people shouldnt follow it, i just dont believe its all 100% true

Well I'm sorry Brent. But if you been through what i've been through in my life you'd want something to believe in too! I'd much rather think that my father is watching over me from heaven than just laying 6 feet under!

sorry.

it's not your fault. You believe in one thing, i believe in another. It's just the way it is

The Blible evolved with the society around it. It has been changed, censored and re-written so many times that I highly doubt that ONE mere word from the ancient times survived.

Not talkng about the 'deleted scenes', cut from it ages ago.

like ive said before, one cannot take the most of the bible literaly. example: world being made in seven days. definatly not possible, but when the old testement was written the people who wrote it didnt know all of this scintifical(sp) stuff. they didnt know about dinosaurs ect ect. when God told them what to write (or how ever one wants to interpret how whom ever decided to write the bible) was very simple and easy to understand, because people of that time where probably questioning everything, how they came to be ect ect.



not exactly. alot of the bible is a not to be taken literal, kinda true story about...whatever, it was stories made so people of that time could understand them. again we know its not possible for the world to be made in 7 days, but not 7 of our days, we dont know how long one day might be to God.



Alot of people would disagree with you there, but not i. alot of other christian religions interpret the bible to best suit them and what they beleive.
example: alot of christian relegions dont beleive in drinking any from of alcohal. somewhere in the old testement it said that drunkenness was a sin, so they figure no alcohal once so ever, even though Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine, so he obviously didnt have a problem with alchol.



you cant buy christianity.

I'm saying I seen those things happen!! And it was God. I've seen alot of healings in our church. The one about the artery: This guy in our church has been seeing the same Dr. for years. He was at the altar praying one day & felt this sensation thru his heart. Later that nite he had chest pains went to the hospital and they admitted him, the next day my hubby and Pastor went to go visit him. The Dr. came in and said: i don't know what to say, but i have all your reports, x-rays and this artery Has NEVER been there before. he said, the only thing i know to say is that God made you a knew one. NOW thats a miracle!!

yeah, and I saw those things I wrote happen, what's the point?
some die some don't, that proves nothing at all

that's not a miracle at all... "this artery has never been there before"? that's some lousy job that doctor did, guess he got his licence at the university of Chuzack in central China with the population of 25 people

there are rules to when something is called a miracle, I don't know them, but one geezer saying it, doesn't make it a miracle

Yes that does qualify a miracle lol

kewl, than it also qualifies as a miracle that my PC still hasn't frozen up after being on for 6 hours straight where it normally did that after 3

woo-hoo

I'm gonna hold the presses

ill call CNN

in the mean time, try and get an autograph from James Earl Jones

specailly for you

"What's easier to believe, once you die...there's nothing.

or that there's actually Gold Gates with puffy white clouds and everything great that I could ever imagine up there."

I believe there's much much more than just death because in my opinion it's more sensible, in all that is and all that we don't know about and cannot comprehend, to believe there is SOMETHING rather than nothing. Secondly, why do you say Gold Gates and puffy clouds like everyone who believes in reincarnation or the afterlife believes in that notion?

I believe there's more after we die than we know, but I don't believe it's fluffy clouds and gold gates.

-AC

this is another thing . i believe there is a heaven , but not how the bible describes it to be........

im more into believing the way a gnostic christain does .

what is that band? OCP? they know it all

'Heaven is a halfpipe'

im there baby! watch me fall on my head!!

Im very skeptical about everything the bible says as, even strong believers, agree that parts of it are exagerated stories used to teach us morals, so how r we supposed to know which parts are real and which parts arnt? Also it all seems very unrealistic to me, scientific explanations suit me much better, but thats just my nature...

if you believe there is more....then what more is there that you believe.

Can you describe it to me? can you tell me what it's like?

NO...why not? hmmmmmm.....because its not there. MAYBE??

idunno...sometimes i think its just a big old lie like santa claus or the tooth fairy to make us feel better or something to make us feel better.

We had that discussion here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f75/t300942.html

It got kinda wacky with the homeless issue.

OK smarty pants, what does qualify as a miracle?? you dnt have to agree w/me, but you don't have to be rude about it either.

I've never heard of any strong believe say that there is exagerated parts in the bible, not saying some haven't just saying I haven't heard. I am a very strong believer and believe in it all

I am a strong believer as well. I believe the bible is a fact 100%.

Hmmm, a factual discussion here ... NOT!!!!

And that on one of my favourite topics! So what are you discussing here. That the Bible consists of historical facts or whether there are suc things as a God, heaven, hell, miracles and whathaveya??? It seems like the bunch of you just chuck a lot of easy lines and opinions in here that sound clever, but there is hardly any basis for them.

If you stick to beliefs, you stick to beliefs, there little room for argument there. If you want to talk about facts that support the beliefs, that's a compeletely different debate.

Now, I'll just chuck a couple of cents on my account:

1. No one can scientifically prove there is a God. No can scientifically prove there is no God. End of debate.
2. No one can scientifically prove there is a heaven or a hell. No can scientifically prove there is no heaven or hell. End of debate.

Now, if you want to talk about the original topic, Does the Bible contain facts?, saying you don't BELIEVE some things happened is hardly an argument. There were a lot of people during WWII (and even NOW!!!) that don't believe Jews were being systematically slaughtered in a Nazi genocide. However, facts show that it DID happen.
I admit, with the Bible it gets a little trickier, especially when we go further back in time, but we're not entirely devoid of some factual evidence. It's a big topic though, but it requires a bit more knowlegde that most of you displayed so far in trying to sound intelligent or enlightened.

queeq, you know full well that you have to prove things DO exist, not that they don't, so the second half of your 'end of debate' sentences are complete irrelevances. The burden of proof is to establish, not to dismiss; only once reasonable evidence has been presented does it need to be refuted.

"However, facts show that it DID happen."

Not wanting for one moment to back the denial lobby, but the only reason they exist at all is because- as came to a surprise for everyone, including the judge, in David Irving's attempt to sue for libel about comments on his own denial- there is no historically solid evidence for the Holocaust- not that meets normal standards. A heck of a lot of witnesses, of course, which is where the movement looks rather silly. But if there WERE such facts as you say, the movement would not have the backing it does.

As the judge said in his ruling:

"What is the evidence for mass extermination of Jews at those camps? The consequence of the absence of any overt documentary evidence of gas chambers at these camps, coupled with the lack of archeological evidence, means that reliance has to be placed on eye witness and circumstantial evidence, which I shall shortly summarise."

And of course, he then found against Irving based on those factors. But whilst I am not denying that some people have beliefs against fact, I don't think this was a good or appropriate example because the literal, demonstrable facts are not clear.

As for being on topic... well, the thread is clearly simply asking for opinions, not supported dissertations, so there is no need to get stuffy just beause people are broadcasting them.

In the final analysis, huge amounts of the Bible are down to interpretation, and hence you can broadly say you either believe it or you do not. A lot of people say they do not and I would join them- if we are pigeonholing, that is, because that's not to say it has nothing of value in it.

As for the holocaust, I guess the documents from the NAzis with the endless lists of victims and termination dates are no proof at all. Besides, even withness accounts are proof. Especially if there are a lot and they agree. Especially since they exists from immediately after the war, when it's impossible to argue that it's old ancient memory.

And as for the Bible, yopu gotta know the facts before you say you don't believe it. There are many events and persons described in the Bible. There's a lot of checking possibilities to see if there's evidence that support events or the very existence of people. Apart from that, it's impossible to dismiss the Bible as a fairytale book beforehand. It's hard to say it's a historical document, because we would judge it by modern day standards of history books (which isn't fair in the firts place). Yet, of many stories in the Bible there is proof that they do speak of historical events. They may noy be complete, they may not tell the whole story or everything there is to know about it (then again, what history book does), ye can one just dismiss it as nonsense just because it in te Bible? I think taht is a grave misconception.

So without knowing any of this, how can you say it's all nonsense. For instance, no serious scientist would dismiss Jesus as a historical character. So how you can you all he did or said in the Bible is complete nonsense? It requires a bit more nuance than that.

my thing is this..........

the bible was written by man . as we all know that man tends to fabricate stories and turn them into somrthing that they are not . then through the years it has been rewritten by the churches to make it fit into how they think man should live there life for god .


i believe it was meant to be a factual book . all i personally see it as is a book stories loosely based on some facts that some claim they can prove .
therefore in my "opinion" making the bible fiction .

Bible: Fact or Fiction?

It's the TRUTH.

No matter what and how many people around the world would describe such Holy book, it is still the compilation of God's words written by people whom God has chosen and given the authority to perform particular duties (write, preach, spread the words of God) in order to bring God's chosen people back to righteousness. That's why He gave His people the law, the commandments, all written in the Bible to correct the errors and to guide His people into a righteous way of living.

God knew that there will be people that would mock Him, disobey His law, and even won't believe in Him, or to His existence. And that is not surprising at all -- The evil has power to deceive the world -- except those who faithfully believe and obey God's will.

Because of evil, sin entered the world. And because of sin, man was destined to die. But God still set a way for people to be saved from death. Jesus Christ was the answer. Only people had to obey Jesus, not just believe in Him... or else man still had to face death. This is the common mistake of some who so called themselves "Christians" that the world was saved because of Jesus. Jesus has no right to die to save the whole world from sins. He would go against God's law if He did so. Jesus only saved God's people, not the whole world. Everyone has to pay for whatever he did against the sight of God. And the payment is death. The Bible however does not refer to the death which is the cessation of breath. But rather the second death that a sinful man would suffer.

The Bible was written by the authorized people -- the patriarchs and the prophets by the time of Israel, and the apostles during the Christian era.

And it's really a problem if later people translated the Bible their own way... but not anymore the problem of God's chosen people.

For God has unlocked the mystery of His words to them by virtue of His divine calling.

That is nothing but a bunch of Sunday School balogne!!!

Why is it that only people that lived 2000 years ago are "the chosen" people who know God's words?

What about the 8 Billion or so people who have lived since that time? Why hasen't one person or descendent ever shown up into exsistance since that time? Where people more holy then than now? If so...why?

Sorry...you can't part the Red Sea. Noah couldn't have obtained 2 of every animal on this earth and put them into a boat. Jesus didn't come back to life, the idea of Heaven and Hell exsists only in your mind.

wanna know why? Because you can't prove otherwise....and no one has ever been able to prove otherwise since those events have "allegedly" happened.

Like I said earlier....atleast Aesop's Fables were somewhat believable.

What's harder to believe? a tortise beating a hare in a long distance race? or a man turning his walking stick into a snake?

God, Faith, Religion.....those are just examples of how Humans being the most intelligent creatures on the planet, also constitutes us as the dumbest animals on the planet.

Link.... have you read the bible? If what you believe what happened in the begining is true i pretty much think God can do anything we wants.... allowing someone to part the seas and turn a stick into a snake is a sinch.

He choose those people because he did... they apparently were the ones at that early moment in history that had enough faith to listen.. there were only maybe at tops 500,000 people in the world at that time.

Hard one way I am afraid.....

All of the "holy books" are fictional tools which were specifically written to enslave the weak !

Well, that's my opinion anyway !

As I am an atheist I guess that that is the stance you would expect from me eh ?

I always find it a very dangerous thing to argue for atheism as to do so often hurts the feelings of the faithful when I refute all of the things they have believed in all of their lives.

I still feel that I have as much right as they do to argue why I don't believe in any God or in any doctrine. I just have to be careful how I go about it if I don't want to be seen as a bigot or a person of prejudice.

Let me put one point to you all:

If you were not born in mainly Christian Britain, to a British Christian family but you were born say, In Iran, to a Moslem family....why would you be able to say that you are a Moslem and not a Christian ?

I ask this question as I believe that the religion that you follow and that you support against all other religions is just simply an accident of the place where you were born and has nothing to do with whether your adopted religion is the only true faith or not.

very good point Paps

when god sits down next to me at my computer, rocks out with me listening to cradle of filth and gives me all the free beer i can handle, then and only then, i'll believe in 'it'

AND.....another one....

Is it fair that a child should be indoctrinated into the faith of it's parents - with the collusion of their priests - when that child has not had the chance to see other religions...OR NONE.... before it is mature enough to make up it's own mind ?

Yes, actually I've read a lot of the Bible. And upon further review of that book, I can honestly tell you Mein Kampf is a better read. Atleast it's real.

The Bible does nothing but tell you fairy tales, created in order for you to have faith in a God that no one can prove exsists.

Worst yet, it tries to frighten you by telling you that if you do things that "God sees as wrong" then you'll spend the rest of eternity in Hell. OK, and I thought I was the one with the drug problem.

My turn to ask you a question now...

What religion are you? and when did you decide to follow this religion? at what age?

ah now we are getting somewhere!!!! Just my way of seeing it, good call Paps

See, reading a Bible is not enough to come into the "knowledge of truth"... And that's what you don't have up to this moment.

Life doesn't sit down next to us.
Life doesn't rock out with us listening to cradle of filth and give us all the free beer we can handle.
We can't see Life.
We can't smell it.
Taste it or hear it.

But we all still believe there is Life.

Jesus and His apostles didn't indoctrinated and likewise baptized a baby -an infant - a child... for they still cannot comprehend everything about the "full knowledge of truth"... they can never sin for they have not understand any laws and commandments yet ... and how could they ask forgiveness if evr they have sinned... that's why it is NOT righteous to baptize an infant ... but they can still be guided ... instructed to live righteously ... until the time would come they have to decide what to follow ... afterall, it's still everyone's choice that matters to everyone. The reward is just there. God has put a way where people should go. But man can still do whatever they want to do ... and believe what they want to believe.

well if you want to know the future read bible because it is all real and there are dark days for the earth to come after when jesus comes back for the church and soon after that someone who does'nt care will blow a nuclear bomb up and armagedion will kill one third of earths population so believe or don't because I know I won't be left behind.

Actually, it's not what exactly will happen when Jesus Christ comes back for His Church. ... And as what I said reading the Bible is not enough. Many did that and have failed to understand it and there they go ... mocking everything they have read... because what was written in the Bible is not itching to their hearings.

you have to pray for wisdom and udnerstanding of the word of God. It's harder for nonbelievers to read and understand than it is for beleivers, simply because Satan puts blinders on you, sin blocks the truth from you. Jesus will give you the wisdom & understanding to comprend hid Word.

That is right, FE.
But we should also consider the truth that God still sends authorized people to preach His words. Many people believe that it is not the trend anymore. But if we understand the Bible, God sends His chosen messenger from time to time to do a particular mission... even up to this time.

Woah!!!

Looks like someone forgot to spin the pipe slowly while lighting up.

"knowledge of truth"

Try proving something that you've said. You know, like actualy physical proof. Not theory and myth...

I, myself, the "physical" proof... ...

and you can be the "physical" proof too ... unless you consider the time you were born in this world.

Please....explain this "knowledge of truth" rubbage that you're attempting to shovel down our throats...

You've caught my interest....

Actually, it is not that simple to explain to someone who already closes his mind to the words of God. I have already quoted in colors something about attaining the "knowledge of truth".

Christian but not offiliated with a church i practice on my own. I was Baptized as a Catholic but grew up in a protestant home. I worship on my own accord with no influence from anyone.

Considering how the bible have "borrowed" stories from other mythologies it has no credibility at all
Look at it this way: Their minds aint closed toward the words, they just keep an open mind to other possible alternatives rather than being one track minded toward a book full of writings of vague origin.


oh yeah that explain it all Howl toward heaven, if you can find it, like a wolf howl for the moon.

"blinds" ... no2 tsk.tsk.tsk.

i'm sorry if that's how you understand the passage.

vain human knowledge ...

The Bible is about as real as Cat and the Hat

..and as everything as how you can comprehend it with your own knowledge...

knowledge enough to know BS when I read or hear it

oh now now, finti! Jury is right

read that text and interpretate it in a way it is always right

Well, I just thank God I am one of His chosen ones...
...and have come to the "knowledge of truth"...
...not just the human wisdom.

I'm just very much thankful that I am not the same as many people around the world... for ...