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I mean, it seems that there has got to be a few new twists that Lucas is hiding up his sleeve that the whole internet doesn't know about. Like the history of sidious's plan, or maybe he is the reincarnated soul of the first Sith, or maybe he is thousands of years old, and has been plotting this for so long. Oh there are so mayn questions that make my mind go CRAZY!!!!!

Oh well I guess I will go an put in some wrestling from the 70's and forget about this SW stuff?

if you count EU sources, Captain Panaka supposedly found a hidden grave containing the bodies of hundreds of palpatine's enemies going back several years shortly after episode I

1979

it probably had to go back at the age of being 10 or so

he had to get into politics, and in the deleted scenes of AOTC, you see Padme in her politics career around that age, so if his original plan was gaining power by becoming an emperor, it pretty much controlled his life

I am assuming that because Lucas authorizes what is written and not written in the EU, that Palpatine is the last of the Sith Lords for possibly hundreds of years. Until he trains the likes of Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannus and maybe even General Grevious to a point.

He finally probably found a way to impliment his plain right around the time Anakin is born and everything takes motion.....

yeah as soon as palpatine got on the senate his plans were concieved,and when he snubbed the trade federation he knew there was no turning back becouse he would then be elected chancellar...

" i will not allow this republic which has stood for over a thousand years be split in two..."

thats how old i think palps is, over a thousand years.
he sat around and waited for the once powerful new republic to weaken.
then when the time was right, he sunk his fangs is.

GL has made it clear that before that time, the sith ruled the galaxy, as they will again after ep3.

"thats how old i think palps is, over a thousand year"

i hope that was sarcastic!

Well... Yoda is about 900... why should he be the only one?

maybe so, but one crucial element, yoda is 900 or so years old when he dies, if sidious is 1000, then wouldn't yoda know, and wouldn't he suspect something of evil to keep a human alive for that long. it was either yoda's race of people or aliens, or the force that kept yoda alive that long. so seeing that humans don't even live to 120 almost always, then it was either the force, dark side, duh, or the fact that your incorrect, which is probley not true.

id say it was more the fact that palpatine is human! (isnt he?)

yoda is a totally different species.
i could tell you that the human race has been going for a thousand years but it doesnt mean im that old

"strong am i with the force...but not that strong"

perhaps sidious is that strong.

but we have seen how sideous ages, although its rumoured that some of which is caused during his duel with yoda. if he was to carry on aging like that until a thousand he'd be a walking talking (although admittadly kickass) skeleton!

maybe now that he is starting to use the force, lightning and stuff, it could be taking away or "draining" his ability to hide his age, he might have used the force for that.

perhaps he hybernated?

you dont seriously believe that do you?

just exploring possabilities

and why are you so against the idea of palps being older than we are led to beleive? regardless of how old his body is, i firmly beleive that he is taking a personal revenge, not just one in the name of the sith. i just have a strong feeling that palps was around during the last sith rule. somehow he stayed alive. maybe hybernation, maybe he was reincarnated, maybe he IS the dark side.

we are making this thread long with his AGEING possibilities ishn't dat vierd.

but anythings possible with george lucas on the case or what ever. nvm.

I've had a gut feeling for a while that sidious/palpatine is very old, I think sam wessell was there as a character for a less overt reason than we may have thought, I think that palps is something 'like' a shapeshifter hence he would look human but really could be alot older and more scarred.

One thing that always bugs me is in AOTC when in his office palps finishes off padme's sentance for her and yoda gives him a 'funny' look....what was that about????
Maybe Yoda had a small incling but dismised the possiblility. We all have secrets so why not sidious?
just an idea.......

Wayne...
PS I've got to admit I am really looking forward to the 'big reveal' when palps shows himself for who he really is

That's a good pick up. That look there was definitely Yoda sensing something suspicious about Palpatine. But he can't quite draw any conclusions.

yeah, but yoda's probably just thinking "i dont trust him" because he is a politician. i doubt he suspected that palps was a sith.

ep2 hints that jedi do not trust politicians, so it may be just as simple as that.

Yeah, that's true. I don't think that look was Yoda suspecting Palpatine was a Sith, it definitely wasn't, but he did pick up on something, maybe it was not trusting him like you said.

yeah it was probably just a 'I can't trust him' sort of thought, either that or maybe a suspect that he was mildly force sensitive.... but not as if we're gonna know for sure for a while yet

Wayne...

GL holds the key to the palpatine stroy just has'nt opened the door for us fans yet for now may force be with you.

Maybe Palpy is so consumed by the dark-side that it has lept him alive for so long. I mean why would he want to be a sith, who was his master, is it really his masters plan from the start and he just finishes it????

I think there are still going to be more questions than answers about palps/sidious after teh film is released I can't see a way for everything to be answered in a 2 1/2 hours film.

Wayne..

Yeah, it's not all going to be answered as we can pretty much expect. Some aspects will be explained I'm sure, but others will be left open for speculation and there is more important plot to cover in the movie as well.

sidious' plan goes all the way back to the year 2578 ACE on earth.

ya know the whole thing about palpatine being the same age as yoda could work,this wasnt my idea but i thought it was kinda cool ,is if GL makes it like yoda and palpatine had a past together prior to the republic,and that could be why yoda stares at him,he senses something familiar about him,but since palpatine is just flowing with the darkside it clouds his vision,and it could be something on the lines of yoda somehow killed the last sith,being palpatine,but yoda didnt kill him,and that might be the reason its called REVENGE OF THE SITH,the reason why this could work is becouse yoda is 800 years old or something,and ki-adi-mundi says in TPM that the sith have been extinct for almost a millenium,so what do you think?

i always got the impression that the plan had been decades, possibly even centuries, in the unfolding.....i'm intrigued by your last post captain midnight....it bears thinking about.....

although that could make yoda about 3 years old when the last sith was destroyed....

I wouldn't be surprised if Sidious is much older then we all expected him to be.

I am expecting Sidious to be almost as old as Yoda.....
I think that the fact that Yoda is a alien strong in the force
has plenty to do with him living so long.....

But Sidious, if things fall in place , was
probably trained last by Bane . Learned
the techniques to hide himself while waiting for the right time to
unleash a ultimate plan...
Now I do think some things played into Sidious favor to make his
plan come into existance; the birth of Anakin, discontent among the Jedi, the direction of the galaxy; and he just continued to prepare...

Sidious has had time to prepare himself whether it was 100 yr or 1000 yrs.....he has out lived most Jedi and is ready for any situation; constantly adjusting to all situations....

mabey yoda killed palpatines mentor and thats why palpatine wants revenge,there has to be a reason why palpatine does what he does,something bad,like the slaying of his mentor by the hands of yoda,leader of the jedi council...

Maybe his motives are just control, and simply just that.

we will see on may 19,2005 for now may force be with you.

maybe someone in the republic just really pist him off and made him come to rule like chancellor valorium.

There could really be something more to Palpatines rage besides power....

He probably fears Yoda.....
He also fears Anakin, but knows he is young enough
to be manipulated.....
And see's Obi Wan as a threat that needs to be eliminated along with Mace Windu.....
Other than that he can destroy the Jedi as head of the Republic....

hmmmm......got me thinking.....for palpatine to want revenge, he must have been present when the sith were snuffed out (i think)....since there can only be 2 sith, he must have witnessed his masters destruction....unless there was a long line of sith, just sitting there reading the paper, playing chess, for millenia....

yeah you guys are all on the same page in which is cool,i just have a hard time believing that palps would want to go through all this trouble just for control,he already has alot of power and control being chancellar,he wants revenge over the jedi council and the republic but why,that is the question....

Palpatine's Sith instincts go back to the rule of 2 .....
from what we know this goes back to the descimation of the Sith Empire...
from what else we know of the Sith, they were held in check by the Jedi...
maybe this along with the death of his master at the hand of the Jedi is the reason for his rage.....

I've actually thought since Ep. 1 that the whole "revenge" thing was just what Palpatine brainwashed Maul with. The whole thing is just a cover for his megalomania. He just wants power.

Darth Cain,

u r of the darkside.....u just want power...

i doubt that palpatine is anything other than human...
but what if he can use the force to mask his true appearence?

PVS, using the Force would be cool, but how does he do that in aroom full of Jedi (and some are masters)?

And yes, Master Kadub, I am of the dark side. That's why they call me Darth...

i couldnt help but chuckle at that, since the logical question to that would be
"how can the dark lord of the sith converse with a room full of jedi?"

"the darkside clouds everything"
"...our ability to use the force has diminished"
the jedi are blind at this point, so anything is possible

True, but he was around Jedi in Episode 1 on Naboo. That's why I believe the idea of him being disfigured by Yoda, because then all he has to do is not use the Force which I'm sure he practiced. Plus, Yoda messing him up is cool because it robs him of gloating in public.

but isnt he always using the force to cloud the jedi's vision?

and im sure the emporer is not vain in his good looks nearly as much as his power. although he was pissed when they rejected him for the cover of GQ

I would think they would have some clue especially pre Ep. 2. Although Yoda seems to give a funny look early on in AOTC.
Years later Palpatine would make the cover of Dictator Monthly and he had a column in Despot magazine......

'DC.......darth dude u r....hehehehee'

Palpatine has had years to master the art of deception and trickery....
to be able to cloak himself in a room for of Jedi, even Masters would be simple for him by this time in his life......if it were Maul, I dont think he would have been as successful (plus, Maul had all of those tatoos).....
But Yoda does have that look that has always bothered me...I am sure that will come to in ROTS.......

Well, maybe that's how Yoda gets away- he figures it out just in time to get the Star Wars equivalent of a plane ticket out of town.
And as an aspiring Sith Lord, I hope to be on magazine covers too.

Yoda understands the prophecy, the future is certain but always in motion it is.....
He puts the alternative plan in motion.....

'DC....the lightside will never let you prevail.....'

Isn't "Light Side" a magazine for Jedi wusses?

Wait in Knights of the old republic there are many, many sith Knights- I know this is mainly because it would be boring if there werent but doesent that go against the "only two" rule. Either the game wasnt thought through, or the two rule applied after this age.

'DC.....want to make something out of it......

hehehee....

In time you will understand, Master Kadub.
Though it may be too late by then.....................

Dark Forces II had also a bunch of them but that was before TPM. Games are EU, just for fun, but they do not serve well to understand the movies.

Educate them, queeq. Videogames especially aren't great for cross-referencing.

Nope.

Foolish Jedi, keep the EU in another forum, where it belongs........

or just point them to the note about EU and canon

'the EU runs strong with this one'

There is no difference between EU and Canon, but all will be told and come forth about Sidious and his plan in ROTS....
And I will not be surprised if it is the same as things we've read from previous novels or storylines not on the big screen....

No difference? Well, actually, only the movies and supposedly the radio dramas are canon. Anything else George just rubber-stamped as long as it didn't get in his way.........

Well said, DC. Saying they're no difference between EU and canon is almost as bad as saying "Star trek rules".

what are you smoking?

Thats it kadub, i'm not selling you anymore spice!!!!

you forgot the novels

What i want to know is, how much of it is going perfectly as planned.. and how much of it is he improvising on??

did he really plan for darth maul to die?? did he forsee that amidala would leave the senate to go back to her planet to start a war and to defeat the battle droids and the trade federation??

nope, probably not ... cause he "want that treaty signed!" and sends out Maul to help

if everything went as planned, Maul didnt had to leave and there wouldn't have been a war

i think there still would have been a war.
quigon declares that the federation wants her dead, and he is correct.

the whole "sign the treaty" plan was a ploy to give the nemoidians a sense of purpose. the plan was to kill the queen, take over the senate, start a war, create the clones, rule the galaxy

Queeq,
WATCH YOUR MOUTH! trek WHO! 'shivers'

Smoker
Dont start to hold out on me now....

Sidious plan was going to be set in motion with or without Maul;
it seems he always has a back up.....

one way or another, the point was to get Valorum out and Palpatine in as supreme chancellor, but I don't see Maul getting killed as a good thing, since he can be an important silent assassin

Maul was so under used, and was a far better character than donald dooku!!!

Ok kadub you are a good customer but no glitterstim cause it makes you spoute off too much EU stuff

i doubt palps was in mourning, at least not for long.
very shortly after, he meets anakin, and wipes his tears away.

at that point, im sure palps saw maul as an acceptable loss for all he had gained.

of course, but it wasn't in his original plan I believe

palpatine makes sure he wins either way whatever goes down....one case where crafty lucas wins out over senile lucas....

eu is stooopid....are fan movies/fiction/art "the real deal" too?....

yeah, but you know palps, too proud to admit that.
he'll just say he planned every last detail

"everything is going terrible wrong" just doesn't have the same ring to it

quote:
"everything is going terrible wrong" just doesn't have the same ring to it
yerssot

heh heh....

he wins either way, i don't think he really gives a crap as long as the big pieces fall into place....i get the feeling he enjoys that the jedi are shaken up by realizing the sith have returned though....

I could not agree more....
Darth Maul had so much more
to offer than Count Dooku....
I mean Dooku was great, but
I really could see Maul as a master
General and slayer of the Jedi in the Purge,
and finally Anakin destroys him after Maul
slays Padme finally....

*killer cool*

guys its been confirmed by the OS that Palpatine is HUMAN...........not too many 850 year old humans running around I dont think

not too many indeed... just one, and his name is palps

gets his strength from the force perhaps..

although i don't believe he's that ancient..

PVS my dear friend......you are wrong babe!

Palpatine uses the force to sustain his age and strength......he relies on the force.....

that maybe but he's not as old as Yoda peeps.

Yeah, definitely not as old as Yoda.

maybe..

I seriously doubt Sidious is as old as Yoda....
But i do think that something triggers Yoda's
memory about the Sith Lord and he is aware
that things are in motion that he can not stop;
so he begins to plan for what is about to happen.....
I doubt that it is coincidence that Padme is able to
hide Leia away at the last second from Anakin/Palpatine;
and the same with Ben and Luke....

"the future is always in motion"

The best clue comes when the Jedi are declared enemies of the state.....

we shall see my dear, we shall see

hehehe....nope.......the best clue is Palpatine suggesting Anakin being Padme's protector......

And that Anakin's becoming the 'greatest of all Jedi". Nice manipulation there.

i dunno if this was said but maybe palpatine is a clone of himself.

HUH???????????

i dunno i read it in a comic that the emperor cloned himself. and luke stumbles upon this and then luke and sidious go at it.

A comic????? MORE EU??!!!!!

That comic sucked anyway.....

and i read a comic where luke gets a sex change, and marries palpatine's clone

Comic=EU and EU SUX

I wouldnt put it past me...kinda freaky if you think about it though

Not THAT comic was great!!

Great it may be but its STILL EU and NOT Cannon.

if Palpatine was really that smart he would have used his own clone for the republic's army instead of Jango Fett. Why the hell did he use Jango anyway

then he would have like 100000 guys just as strong as him.
i doubt he would be comfortable with that

And he doesn't look like much of a soldier.

By the way Priestess, that was a joke about the comic. I know what's EU and what's Canon.

and this one was a joke as well, so don't bother searching for it

Cain,
oops doh me

PVS Ive come to consider 50% of what you type as jokes hun

S'okay, Priestess....

well, if you count up the total posts it may be 50%

but "what i type" implies the total words typed, and since i type waaaay more when i'm being serious, you are incorrect. my jokes are usually 1 liners...so you could say that a very low percentage of what i type is joking.

*cough* bullsh^t *cough*

Another thread corrupted.......

Excellent.

are we playing right into your hands darth?

I am content.

Okay, putting this thread back on topic.

The question is: How far back does Sidious's plan go? The Answer:

Palpatine made his way into Naboo politics in the beginning of his mid-life, then made his way to Coruscant as an elected representative. As time went by, he continued to manipulate people until he was elected Supreme Chancellor, then made himself Emperor. It was a simple plan, and every politician does the same thing. The only difference is that Palpy wears a black hat while doing it.

From the beginning of all of this, he had been a Sith Lord. His plan began when he was a young man, which was not 800 years ago. He is a regular human being, and his normality is what made him want to control the galaxy. His plan goes back only a few decade before TPM. There is nothing more to it.

If you don't like that, and would rather think of the situation as being as massive conspiracy of Sith ghosts and stuff, then you are neglecting the psychology of how evil is born.

|-O-| {-O-} |-O-|




Corn.

dude, now im confused

you used my sig and signed the post 'corn'

my brain hurts now

Just connecting all of the dots.

oh ok. i just liked that whole cloning himself thousands of time. i know that has nothing to do with the topic.

Indeed. So stop it.

Where does the info about Palpatine starting all of this just ten years before TPM come from? I mean, he was training Maul farther back than that. He didn't just become Naboo's senator overnight- of course, this is the planet that made a 15 year old its ruler.......

i don't believe anything i've heard about this.....when people state they have information on it, it all just sounds eu to me so far....i agree with the points PVS has made, they sound most likely to me, and closest to how i see it (but still guessing).....actually i kinda hope i don't find this out, it's one thing it would be cool to see in the cinema for the first time....

This, to me, is something I wouldn't mind being left to the imagination of fans.

sith history?.....nah, it would be well creepy and heavy.....just a little, not too much....and there's none of it in the films so far, so a little taste wouldn't hurt.....and we wouldn't have to read fan theories about cloning and darth zdzsxsxxx anymore.....

hmmm, I don't remember any Darth zdzsxsxxx........
Was that from a comic?

it's real!!!!....i read about it on supershadow.com....

Ah. It must be true then......

did you know george lucas is a clone of supershadow?.....

Now we're getting somewhere.

Anyway, stop this EU crap or I'm closing it down.

What EU crap? The comic remark was a joke....
Anyway, Palpatine's past should be left vague....

sorry for bringing up that comic crap. maybe it isnt his plan maybe it was his father or grandfather but they were killed somehow and palpatine wanted to carry out those plans his father or grandfather.

there's about 3 points on this topic i consider possibilities....

i think he could be quite old, i think he could have witnessed the final cull of the sith by the jedi, and i quite like PVS's theory that he was concieved by the force like anakin.....but all are guesses at this point....unless someone comes up with an interesting theory soon, i fear we are circling around these few points......

ok, nice attempt shadow king....i have trouble with the force being handed from father to son in the sith ranks....no reason really, it justs sits wrong with me.....

Conceived by the Force would be weird, but I doubt Lucas would do that...
I just can't see Palpatine being 1,000 years, I'm sorry.
Sidious's plan probably goes back to the time he took over from his master.
It would be interesting if there were more to Palpatine's plot than just a lust for power..... But there isn't.

well, we don't know anything about this at the moment.....not one tiny detail.....so all we can do is think what seems logical to us from the choices people come up with.....cain, your view of it seems believable, so does PVS's....i can't imagine him being born and having a father, and he seems somehow superhuman so this makes the force birth theory hang, as well as linking him to anakin.....if he's not very old (and i have no timeframe - 190 years is old), i just can't see him sitting in school on naboo, a regular kid with a family, and suddenly becoming interested in the sith one day when he meets a strange guy in the playground.....

A strange guy in the playground? The Sith purge was a millenium prior to TPM; he's not that old. If he's another Force birth, wouldn't he be in the prophecy, too? That would seem to be significant.....
I think Palpatine knew of the prophecy and twisted it to his own ends.
And we don't know how Sith find their apprentices, so who can say?

well, the basis of my theory defies what most think of the force.

some say the force is simply one energy field and that it is up to the force USER whether the force be good or evil

i strongly disagree. i turn to the darkside cave on dagobah.

"that place is strong with the darkside...a domain of evil it is..."

so, then the dark side is a tangable side of the force. the dark side is evil. there is an evil side to the force. so would that evil not have it's own will? perhaps a will to create the ultimate evil?

yeah, i know, i've just never heard of it before (father to son) so it seems alien to me i guess....he just doesn't seem like a regular guy at all....

but we know nothing of the cave or it's significance PVS....and it looks like we never will, as much as i would like something, if it was incredibly well written.....

the significance of the cave matters not guiro, what matters is what yoda said.
the dark side is an entity, not a state of mind.

if the darkside is an entity, would it have its own will?
seperate from the will that created anakin?

thats the lines i'm thinking along

but we don't know....we don't know anything about any of this....nothing's leaked...no frame of reference....but i liked your force birth theory, because palpatine doesn't seem even vaguely normal to me on any level....no parents, no after school paper route etc....

ok, our posts are getting tangled here....i think the darkside is more of a personality thing....the force is an entity, but it needs a person with a dark personality to harness it that way....most jedi are good....there are only ever a couple of sith around, even with one or two in the wings, the numbers are pretty slim.....

the frame of reference is yoda's words

perhaps by lucas' habit of changing his mind, they dont hold as much weight,
but he states that the cave is "a domain of evil"

if it is that, and there is no one evil living in the cave, then the FORCE which embodies that cave is EVIL. thats my whole point, the dark side, according to yoda's words, is evil.

its not solid, but is not baseless either

This points out a problem with the PT compared to the OT:
Yoda describes it as an energy field created by all living things in Ep. 5, but in Ep.1 the Jedi talk about the will of the Force. Lucas tries to make things fit that don't.

you have a point PVS, i'm not arguing against it, i'm trying to think it through and realising just how tired i am....cain, is this something to do with the living vs the unifying force?.....

but it COULD make sence, if he doesnt screw it up.
an energy field, but with a will.
my theory proposes two conflicting energy fields, good/evil yin/yang
always in conflict, guiding a being's will either way, depending on the path they follow.

Well, I hadn't really thought about that....

If that works like I described, it seems contradictory to me. That was one of the things I didn't like about the PT.

Sounds like Lucas's warring sides to me......