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Do we all get what we deserve?

Is there no crime/wrong that goes unpunished? No good deed that goes unrewarded?

Discuss...









This might not really belong in the Philosophy section. If you agree, Move at your will, Mods

I doubt something as that exists, there are crimes that go unpunished there are good deeds that go unrewarded

"A good deed is a reward in its own."

(I think Karma belongs in Philosophy fairly well)

true but then again how does one define a good deed?

Speaking in terms such as, how does one define a crime/ a wrong?

A good deed, in my opinion, is an act in which one does something to better, assist, aid, another.

maybe but that means you can not do a good act for yourself?

That is what is known as being SELFISH.


Besides, how would Karma work if you did a good deed for yourself? Would you be rewarded for doing something nice for yourself?

I believe in Karma--what goes around comes around. It is seldom obvious, but I've witnessed it many times... I don't necessarily attribute it to any mystical quality though....

probably not SG, but then again I don't believe in Karma,

small example: good deed for yourself, keeping your body in shape, reward for self, a long life.

I kicked somebody in the crotch, and the did the same to me-Karma?

What is to say that a long life is going to be a reward?

true, but this only shows that things like rewards and good and bad deeds are very subjective

For arguements sake... let us set up a generalization for Good deeds, rewards, etc, so that this discussion can be continued.

hehe.

Is the aforementioned definition of a Good Deed okay?

for me it's all fine SG, I was just laughing because you're gonna be faced with a lot of this stuff in this section of the forum

What? Semantics?

no idea what semantics means mate

but I ment ppl who will challenge a lot of things even the most basic of things.

No one answered my question......

I don't think anyone got it mano

The more interesting question is not whether or not Karma exists, but rather does it apply to everyone/everything?

If you kill a bug, does that necessarily require a punishment?

The semantics of a word is its meaning, the nuances of language.

I Beilive in Karma. I belive that if you do something, some way, in some form it will come back around

thx Storm

The question is Who or What would punish you? Some deity with higher powers that controls the rebirth of a person? Or there is no punishment. Catching my drift?

Sounds a little too Greek Mythology.

You are misunderstanding me, I think. I am not saying that Zeus is going to strike you down with a lightning bolt.

What determines your punishment? What is to say that in the long wrong doing a person wrong is not for the better?

Karma is not a form of cosmic justice but rather a principle of causation.

M My sister Believes in it.She also pratises that saying.She says we are all judged at the end.And sometimes giving yourself up makes you more faithful to yourself,
Or something like that,Anyway see you around,JM

Karma is more "You get what you give." Give bad, you will get bad in return. Give good, and you will get good in return.

But a punishment does not necessarily take the form of a judge in a powdered wig. Punishment can be anything.

i deffinitly belive in Karma.it has a balence to things,and it also has a scientific balence to it to,in a way.

yea its happended 2 me loads of times.

I agree with Adam Poe. To me karma seems more a case of if I'm nice to someone they'll most likely reciprocate. Just as if I go around punching people in the face I'll most likely get some of what I give. Not this "I stole something 50 years ago and now I have cancer, it must be karma" stuff. Like AP said it's causality, not divine cosmic justice.

But that is not necessarily bad.

Karma sounds good in theory, but I simply don't buy it.

That is because you are the most sceptical person I have had the privilege of conversing with.

Plus Karma simply doesn't seem to happen in this world.

There are plenty of people who do horrible things and get off scott free.

Like I said before....

Karma does not have to take the form of a judge with a gavell. Punishment can be mysterious

Karma is not like some supernatural being weighing a someone's actions on some cosmic scale. It isn't punishment. Karma is the result of a person's actions coming back to them.

Sounds like a cop out excuse to me. If Karma exists then if someone killed a bunch of people something extremely horrible would happen to him. It isn't always the case.

It's not consistant and there are plenty of people who have done horrible acts that live long happy lives without ever seeing ANY consequences to their actions.

I never said karma had to take the form of a judge or anything, just simply that if Karma existed it would be consistant with people, it is not.

From what I've read, karma basically is made up of repercussions. The results and connections aren't always understood...

That sounds more like the "eye for an eye" theory then Karma.

Basically that's what Karma is. "what goes around comes around" type of belief. Obviously, that's not always the case, so Karma get rejected in my book.

Yep. Since im a believer in many lives, I do believe in Karma.

Lil Bitchiness> Why?

She's Budhist, and as far as I know Budhists by default believe in Karma.

Bush-ist?

Oh shit, good thing I changed that, she would have flew down to california and killed me for making a typo which makes it sound as if she supports Bush.

You saved my life, Omega.

Well i think it is partly true but things still can happen because they are meant to happen and may not have anything to do with Karma, but i do beleive in it at part i don't have much in faith but i beleive because there has been alot of times it has happen around me and to myself.

yes, i do believe in karma. every dog gets its bone sonner or later. i don't know why, i don't know when i started believeing it, i just know i do.

If you look at it in a form of Black and White, then you will dismiss any sort of "belief." Look deeper, oh wise BackFire.

Sorry, no. I don't look deeper into things if they don't immediately make a little bit of sense. That would require being open minded, and being open minded is dumb because then you star to trick yourself into believing ideas that are stupid.

hug

Poor BackFire.

Haha! Yeah The Omega you saved BF.....this time...

But yeah, hes right, i believe in it by default.

Good judgment comes from bad experience, which mostly comes from bad judgment.

Karma certainly makes sense, becuase if you're good to others, others will want to be good to you. The reverse also works, of course.

Karma doesn't mean that if a person does something terrible, they will suffer equally. That's not a cop-out, that's karma. Actions have consequences, but they may not be equal to the original act.

Exactly. Everything has a punishment to it. No matter how long you wait, there will be punishment for your actions.

In Hinduism, karma can mean simply action or work, but over time it came to refer but the personal consequences or destiny which accrues from actions. Every action produces an equal and opposite reaction. Every time we think or do something, we create a cause, which in time will bear its corresponding effects.
Hindu philosophy, which believes in life after death, holds the doctrine that if the karma of an individual is good enough, the next birth will be rewarding, and if not, the person may actually devolve and degenerate into a lower life form.

I don' t interpret karma as an immediate reward or punishment of every individual action made by a person, but as the sum of all your actions together at the end of one' s life.

Whether I believe in it or not is a different matter.

"karma karma karma chamelon, you come and go"

The principle of Karma is reflected in Newton's 3rd Law, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Imagine that every living thing is connected to every other living thing by a web of causal relationships. When living things interact, they exact forces upon one another that result in new causal chains.

Just as disturbing only one strand affects the whole web, so do our actions. How the web is affected is determined by whether our actions are good or bad.

The idea is that because it is your actions that create the world you have to live in, "you should be the change you want to see in the world".

I think its not quite so equal and opposite as Newton's laws... and I think a buddist would at least be uncomfortable with Karma being explained so scientifically, but the rest of your explaination is very good I think. Maybe its like the chaos/ripple in the pond kind of principle mixed with Newton's third law... kind of.

I actually practice modern Buddhism and this is the principle of Karma according to our belief.

I have done a lot of reading on buddhism and feel like I have some knowledge of what it is, and probably would consider becoming a buddhist if it weren't against your beliefs to take intoxicants, I was saying though that maybe the scientific explaination doesn't really do the concept of Karma justice... making it sound scientific seems to take buddhism somewhere where it shouldnt go. And the comment about "equal and opposite reactions" doesnt seem accurate because if things are like you say (the web of casual relationships) things do not need to be equal and opposite. That is a bad example. How I understand Karma, it is not equal and opposite. If I kick someone's dog it doesn't mean that someday someone will kick my dog back... and I know that is not what you meant, but thats what terms like "equal and opposite" really mean...

Instead I would have said that if your actions are evil and you cause people pain, those actions, that hurt you are creating will eventually come back to you. If you spread love and compassion then good things will return to you.

"What you reap is what you sow"

Modern Buddhism is a moral philosophy that conforms to scientific principles.





According to Newton's 3rd Law of Motion, whenever objects interact, they exert forces upon each other. The formal statement of this law, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction," simply means that in every interaction, there are forces acting on the two interacting objects.





In the example you provided, the reaction you describe is not equal and opposite but equal and identical. This is beside the point. The principle of Karma is that our actions exert forces on everyone including ourselves.

Mabye the punishment for the bad action is no reward for the good action.
Mabye the reward for the good action is no punishment for the bad action.



Interesting

Karma isn't some kind of punishment for being bad......

Depends on your perspective. It could be. It's like the universes way of balancing shit out, assuming you live long enough for the good or bad to come back your way.

Well, if you do enough shit things to people, eventually things will come back and bite you on the ass. Whether it be by way of cosmic interferance or just pissing the wrong guy off.

-AC

I believe in Karma. What goes around comes around. It may not happen right away, but it will, for that, I always try and do good.

I actually only speak/wish Bad Karma on people I hate. I always tell people who pick on others, do horrid actions, are violent towards people, etc, countless areas, that "Karma's gonna kick you in the ass one day, maybe not today, or tomorrow, but soon you'll get your ass kicked twice as bad, and I hope you learn a lesson or two." I'm not sure about positive Karma, because other then getting a job, my life hasn't had a ton of ridiculously large high points lately. It isn't like I'm going to change because of it, I just worry about my future sometimes, and worry I won't be able to marry and have children with who I want to, and worry about my future career and the such.

But yes, I believe in Bad Karma, and I've heard of Good Karma as well.

What about the murderers and rapists who do their act and live a long healthy life without any repercussions? Did karma just overlook them? Or is it just that it's a belief that gives comfort to people so that when they hear about something bad happening they can say "well, karma will get that guy, so it's okay".

Sheesh don't touch on that it reall pisses me off ranting

Karma will get them in the end and Yes it makes me angry as well that they can get away with it for now, but in the end they will get theres.

I dont believe in karma or reincarnation

Karma doesn't make judgments. A cause has an effect and that is a fact.

What is a bad thing for you maybe a good thing for someone else. This has nothing to do with Karma. Karma is like this; you kill someone, that person's brother hunts you down and kills you. Karma didn't punish you for killing, but the dead man's brother did. Now, lets say that you get away, you now think you can get away, so you do things that you would not have done before. This Karma has changed the path of your life, and the effects of that change will appear in your life, or lives to come.

No, I don't think so, Shaky. I believe that if you gain control over your life you can see the ball coming back toward you. You can see which angle the ball will come back and ow fast. And you can prepare for it.

There's a huge misconception with Karma that I think should really be straightened out. If a man in a hockey mask was running behind a guy in another mask, and a cop were behind both these men yelling stop. Now, let's say that another, unrelated man were to see these men, pull out a gun and beam the middle man. He kills the guy, and in the huge shock that follows, the other mask guy gets away. Now, it turns out that the guy who was killed was an under cover agent. Would the shooter get negative Karma- he killed a guy wrongly, or would he be praised- he was trying to help.
That might not be the clearest conceptualisation, if it's too hard, say so, but I think it's clear enough to get my point accross. The point is that your point of view could be different from someone elses, your wrong is not always the official wrong. By trying to help, you could be hurting someone/thing/etc... This is why Karma doesn't really work for me unless it's completely understood. (obviously not 100% understanding, but the complete basis is a mandatory recognisation in order to be allowed - in my books- to follow, call upon Karma.

Karma could be what Jesus was referring to as "Reaping and Sowing"

What you sow in this life you reap in the next....

Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
No, I don't think so, Shaky. I believe that if you gain control over your life you can see the ball coming back toward you. You can see which angle the ball will come back and ow fast. And you can prepare for it.

There's a huge misconception with Karma that I think should really be straightened out. If a man in a hockey mask was running behind a guy in another mask, and a cop were behind both these men yelling stop. Now, let's say that another, unrelated man were to see these men, pull out a gun and beam the middle man. He kills the guy, and in the huge shock that follows, the other mask guy gets away. Now, it turns out that the guy who was killed was an under cover agent. Would the shooter get negative Karma- he killed a guy wrongly, or would he be praised- he was trying to help.
That might not be the clearest conceptualisation, if it's too hard, say so, but I think it's clear enough to get my point accross. The point is that your point of view could be different from someone elses, your wrong is not always the official wrong. By trying to help, you could be hurting someone/thing/etc... This is why Karma doesn't really work for me unless it's completely understood. (obviously not 100% understanding, but the complete basis is a mandatory recognisation in order to be allowed - in my books- to follow, call upon Karma.

I think you do not understand me; your first statement is true and agrees with what I said. I probably didn't say it clearly. Karma is not good or bad, right or wrong, karma is cause and effect. If you put baking soda and vinegar together it will fizz and over flow. This is not good or evil; it all depends on you and your point of view. There is two types of karma, malleable and inmalleable; I think about killing someone (malleable) but I do nothing, the karma I have created has an effect that depends on what I do next. If I then kill the person (inmalleable) the person dies and the consequences of that action come into being in my life, what ever they are.

I see. So... we basically agree, just see it in two seperate lights. That's good

And I think you mis-understood me. I don't mean bad or good karma, as in... stealing is bad, docoring is good. I mean negative and positive in your perspective. The guy who shot the guy was calling down posotive/good in his point of view, but bad in someone else's. In the big picture, all Karma is just... white... both yes and no.

Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
I see. So... we basically agree, just see it in two seperate lights. That's good

And I think you mis-understood me. I don't mean bad or good karma, as in... stealing is bad, docoring is good. I mean negative and positive in your perspective. The guy who shot the guy was calling down posotive/good in his point of view, but bad in someone else's. In the big picture, all Karma is just... white... both yes and no.

I am glad we have found common ground.

However, how I believe, karma is not negative or positive, it just is.

Sense you are new here, I am a Nichiren Buddhist, and I draw my knowledge from the Lotus Sutra and the writing of Nichiren Daishonin, I don't just know this stuff.

what is karma? can someone tell me what it is?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am glad we have found common ground.

However, how I believe, karma is not negative or positive, it just is.

Sense you are new here, I am a Nichiren Buddhist, and I draw my knowledge from the Lotus Sutra and the writing of Nichiren Daishonin, I don't just know this stuff.
You don't get it. I am agreeing with you!! Karma is just... nothingness, in it's own being. I mean negative in one's own perspective. The ball can hit off the wall and hit you in the face, or it can fly into your hand. The Karma itself is not actually good or bad, but it's effect on you can be good or bad to you, in your eyes.

Yea, that would be cool. I also have some thoughts on nothing. I'd quite like to here your thoughts.
You think you can tell me a bit about you budhisme? I think my own belief is adjacent in a lot of aspects. I'm root Rastafaian.