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if you dont know who Kyp Durron is...then dont reply...

who would defeat or kill the other guy, why

close match...both of these guys are planetkillers....both are (though im not sure about Vader) stronger than Luke in terms of raw power...both have excellent lightsaber combat skills...both can use dark side powers...

yer all about the darth vader arent u?

what can i say

me = Star Wars fan

geek might be the more proper term for it.

meh...

I say vader. The only reason luke beat him in ROTJ is cuz he tapped into dark powers as well (for a very brief moment, but you CANNOT honestly tell me luke wasn't pissed). Then the only reason vader died was cuz he sacrificed himself.

I havent been keeping up with too many recent events, but of the New Jedi Order i've read (first half, probably) Kyp so far doesn't seem to have reached vader's level....

Vader's level in terms of what? Dark Side ability? Raw Power? Lightsaber combat?

isn't this a comic versus thread. To post Star Wars battles u should go to the SW Literature and Expanded Universe thread. Unless its ok to do it here, in which case i will start doing so.

As for the battle that would be very tough. Kyp is supposed to be even more powerful than Luke and Luke did defeat Vader( granted he used his dark side powers). But Kyp uses ruthlessness and dark powers on a regular basis, but is still a Jedi Master. tough for me to say!

i didnt know which section to put it in. But both Kyp and Vader are in Star Wars comics, so...

bump!

(is it alright for Star Wars battles to be debated here Paola.........they are comics soooo....)

moving to Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe forum...

Kyp Durron would put up an incredible battle against the dark lord, but as so many force users before, they would not withstand the awesome force that is Darth Vader. Argueably the best movie villain in history and I just could not see him losing to anyone other than Luke.

Kyp Durron beat Luke Skywalker in a Force battle.

HEhehhehe....I cant believe this is even in question....
"LORD VADER!"

dont you just hate it when people say "Lord Vader" and dont even state the reasons why he would win?

doesnt do much to help a good arguement come into being.

Okay WarSpawn let us debate......

Kyp Durron.....as powerful as he is in the force is still reckless and untested against a powerful Jedi or in the case Sith like Vader/Anakin...

Vader/Anakin is battle tested, powerful and talented....

It would end badly for Durron, although I like him....

Kyp Durron has experiences with the Sith....the greatest Sith lord of all time...Exar Kun...

and if Luke beat Darth Vader...then Kyp Durron would most certainly be able to take on Darth Vader considering he took on Luke and defeated him.

Darth Vader would force choke Kyp, walk up to him slowly then remove his head before you could see the blade. Vader all the way, no contest. Darth Vader is the MAN! (Or robot)

Darth Nefarus, you argue like a 6 year old child, its sad to think that you're 4 years older than me

first of all, Vader wouldnt be able to Force choke Kyp because Kyp would just Force push Vader away, causing him to lose his hold on Kyp.

secondly, Force Lightning killed Vader, and Kyp can do much more than Force lightning because of what he learned from Exar Kun.

Warspawn,

everything that you have mentioned about Kyp is the exact reason he would stand no chance against Vader....

Luke didnt really defeat Vader, Vaders emotions for his son defeated him....there will be no remorse for Kyp at the hands of LORD VADER..

Force Lightning please, Vader would absorb that with his lightsaber or his had.....remember Han's feable attempt to blast Vader....

Exar Kun being the greatest Sith Lord of the all is truely a matter of opinion; and I too cant see Kun being about to defeat Vader....

it has already been stated that Anakin is the most powerful of them all, and this is after the time of Exar Kun......

so, back to what I said....talented, powerful, dark and ruthless.....
Kyp would not stand a chance....

And I have to agree with DN, there is a strong chance Kyp may even loose his head....

jawdrop

are you kidding me?!

Kun basically re-invented the entire Sith Order. There'd be no Lord Vader without Exar Kun.

and Kyp learned everything he knows about the dark side of the Force from Exar Kun. So Vader wouldnt be able to do much against Kyp. Vader can Force choke. big deal. Kyp can bring out Sith serpents that can A) Kill you or B) put you in a Force induced coma.

and also Force lightning did kill Vader, not his weakness for his son. Because that had nothing to do with his death.

Some people here are totally misinformed.
Where did you get the idea that Kyp is more powerful than Luke? Kyp doesn't even compare to Luke!

Nowhere does it say Kyp is more powerful than Luke, except one moment when an arrogant and cocky Kyp thinks that he is more powerful.

It took both Exar Kun and Kyp to take down Luke.

Luke handled the slayers with ease and saved Jacen and Jaina as well, who were struggling against them. Kyp was no match for the slayers compared to Luke's power, and was captured by them after being defeated (TUF).

Vader didn't hold back against Luke in their duel. In fact, Vader KNEW HIMSELF that Luke was MORE POWERFUL than himself AND the Emperor. Read the book Shadows of the Empire for more details.

In fact he knew that Luke would've defeated him in Empire Strikes Back, if he became angry instead of getting confused.

Luke - described as THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN THE GALAXY - official Star Wars databank (check bio of Anakin Solo and Mara Jade).

Also described so by Star Wars authors Aaron Allston and Walter J Williams.

Luke - more powerful than the Emperor and Vader (SOTE, Dark Empire, ROTJ), and Vader and the Emperor are more powerful than Yoda, Mace etc (Episode 3), and Kyp Durron is nowhere near any of these people.

There's a reason why Luke is explained as THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN THE GALAXY.

In addition, the force feats of Luke are numerours, from being at 2 places at once even through hyperspace, levitating, Flying the falcon along with all it's weapons all through the force (all COPL), to manipulating thousands of minds at once (Crystal Star), to healing himself using the force from a mortal injury (COPL), healing Mara completely that even Vergere's tears couldn't heal (TUF), to saving Jacen numerous times with such power that Jacen could only awe (Dark Tide: Onslaught, TUF), lightsaber skills that no one else save Mace Windu with his 7th form displayed (TUF), to force lightning more powerful than any other seen (TUF, Dark Empire), to taking down an AT-AT singlehandedly in seconds (Dark Empire), to being resistant to force choke and able to create powerful force shields to save those around him as well (Dark Empire), to creating an entire fortress with the force alone (blackfeet cris), to levitate across lava fields (JAT), and many, many more.

No one stood a chance against him, from Darth Vader to the Emperor, to the powerful Vong warriors, the slayers and Shimrra. The official statements explaining him as the most powerful of the Jedi is in addition to all this..

Crystal clear.

'And the MadHeretic goes off'

MH,
I agree Luke is truely powerful and this is something that is confirmed
by the line in ESB by Ben... 'that boy is our only hope'
now i know that Leia is also talented in the force, but she is not trained...but for Yoda to even consider her as capable of defeating the Emperor and Vader if Luke failed or turned to the darkside speaks volumes about her and Luke's strength in the force...

As far as Luke; because he taps into the darkside and his father is simpathetic towards his son is he able to defeat Vader..

As for Anakin/Vader, it is well know among the Jedi ranks and Palpatine that he is the choosen one and more powerful than any force wielder ever......
Kun/Durron/Yoda/Palpatine and anybody else dont compare....

Luke is still raw by ROTJ, trained just well enough to confront Vader and Palpatine......
Palpatine was in trouble the day the twins were born, and he knew it...

My vote's with Vader on this one....Kyp's okay but Vader's the stronger personality .... therefore winner

what does kyp look like, i heard a lot, but havnt seen him.

Not that I know anything at all about Dyrron, or what the EU has to say about Luke being the most powerful Jedi (and remember, only the EU sections on the website say this, and so that is only statement on EU continuity)...

.... but remember that Vader has lost a load of his power when he got injured; so says George Lucas himself. So it is Anakin Skywalker who is the super power there, not Vader. Luke can beat Vader for one reason only- Vader has lost his power. This is not speculation, it is fact and overrides all else; GL has stated it as so. But then Luke was only a Padawan at the time.

GL also made another statement (ep 1 or ep 2 commentary) that the darkside is more powerful, that it boosts the power of the user. That statement goes very well with his recent one about Anakin becoming weaker as Vader. We could imagine how much power the darkside would give to someone already powerful as Anakin. Both of his statements don't contradict each other.

Indeed he became weaker as a result of this injury, but he drew on the darkside all the time, which increases his power - thereby balancing his loss of power earlier. Also like you said, Luke was only beginning his journey.

Never minding the Dark Side, the point is simply that he lost his power as he becomes more machine.

So Anakin Skywalker on the Dark Side BEFORE his injuries should be anyone's barometer of power, rather than the Vader Luke fights, because we know he was more powerful at that point.

If we completely ignore EU and only focus on what GL said and the movies, we could agree that Anakin Skywalker before his injuries would be the most powerful.

However, if we add EU, he himself admits that the force was stronger in Luke, and that Anakin SKywalker was never as powerful was he (Vader) was now.

Like I say, I have little knowledge of hw powerful Luke becomes in EU continuity. My point is really aimed at people saying Vader is the most powerful.

MadHeretic: one. Kyp Durron is in fact more powerful than Luke Skywalker in terms of power. Luke, after forcing a black hole upon a rakamat, fell unconscious. Kyp, on the other hand, took down a matalok with a black hole and was only very tired afterwards. so that proves that he's stronger than Luke.

second, yes, Luke is unparalleled in saber skill by the time he faces Shimrra, but we're not talking about Luke, we're talking about Vader.

third, he NEVER uses Force Lightning in the NJO. Kyp however can and is willing to use it.

lastly, Exar Kun may have helped Kyp, but it was Kyp who conjured the Sith serpents which took down Luke. so it's Kyp who's stronger.

btw...you do realize this is a Kyp Durron vs Darth Vader, not kyp durron vs luke. i was merely pointing out that Kyp had beat Luke before.

Ahahaha. You want facts? I'll give you facts now.

1. Indeed Luke fell unconcsious after moving the blackhole. The reason is CLEARLY explained in TUF before his grand fight.

Luke was HOLDING BACK HIS POWER a lot, because he was afraid that using his full power would make him turn to the darkside. Get it? Even when he was using so much power as to move a blackhole, he was holding back so much that it is a miracle he only fell unconcious. It shows the pure power and control of Luke, that even while using that much amount of force, he was restraining himself by limiting his power at the same time - which would be disastrous when such amounts of force is used.

In the official site, there is an interview where the author of the book where Kyp moved that blackholes talks about Kyp and Luke (Aaron Allston)....He has before explained clearly that Luke is the most powerful of the Jedi. In this interview he gets tired of repeating that and points to the databank for anyone who doubts Luke's power....where he's officially stated as the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy.

2. Unparalleled by saber skill? He's unparalleled by everything. Have you read the numerous things that Luke has done with the force? I have made a very short list somewhere - in this thread or another. Check it..and it's only 1/4 of the things that he has done.

3. More facts for you.
He doesn't use force lightning?????
Think again. Jacen Solo was about to get killed by a slayer....and guess what Luke did? He made a powerful emerald lightning to (emerald is used to knock out and required more control, unlike blue which takes life energy). You want more info about Luke's force lightning? Read Dark Empire. Remember the Emperor using force lightning on Luke? Luke used a much, much more powerful force lightning on the emperor - it was a small dose, yet it sent him crashing though the wall..

4. Exar Kun may have helped Kyp?
Kyp didn't have any power to even raise the Sun Crusher. His connection to the force is explained in there as feeble..and then he cried to Exar Kun for help, and he added his power to Kyps thereby enabling him to do it. He is a gifted student, but being compared to Luke! It's unfair to Kyp!

It was he who conjured the Sith Serpents???? Read again! More facts for you! It was EXAR KUN who used Sith magic (also called sith serpents and sith poison) which took down Luke and doing it from behind, while Kyp was using force lightning, where Luke was unwilling to strike down his student. Kyp is weak compared to Luke.

Kyp has done "ONE" single significant thing using the force - by his own power - moving the blackhole like Luke - which still doesn't even compare because Luke did it without using his full power and restraining himself! For any other significant feat, he either completely failed (no match for the slayers), or need the power of someone more powerful (Exar Kun). Kyp is perhaps Luke's most gifted student, but he is NOWHERE near Luke in terms of power or control, and can't even be compared to him.

Yes I realize this is a Kyp Durron vs Darth Vader thread. But seeing many make WRONG statements about Kyp with regard to Luke - the latest being yourself, I was forced to present the actual facts - so that people would be able to make fair decisions on Vader vs Kyp, after analyzing actual facts about Kyp instead of the lies that are spread around. - Which in turn would show that Kyp is no match for Darth Vader.

On a sidenote, there are certain things which Vader fans should know.
1. GL said that Vader was personally responsible for wiping out almost all the Jedi..
2. Mace Windu would prove to be no match for Anakin Skywalker (Ep-3)
3. Anakin Skywalker, is explained by the official sources as the most powerful Jedi ever lived - upto that point (note that this includes Yoda, Mace, Obi Wan etc).
4. Like Ushgarak said earlier, Anakin lost a significant portion of his power after his accident.
5. As much as he became weak by becoming more of a machine, his draw on the darkside made him even more power powerful than ever.
6. Only his son and the Emperor himself were more powerful than Vader.

Here's a quote on the validity of 5 and 6. These are his own words from Shadows of the Empire. He clearly specifies "Anakin" ie, his form before he became Vader, ie "Vader" is talking about "Anakin".

"He would never go back to what he had been men-
tally. Weak, foolish, idealistic. Anakin had been much
like Luke Skywalker was now. Mere . . . potential.
Yes, the Force was strong in Luke, perhaps even
stronger than it had been in Anakin. But the boy
needed to embrace the dark side, to learn where the
real power was, to achieve his true promise."

oooooooh...so that's what happened to that one slayer...i never really understood what Luke did to him...

eeeeh...i cant argue right now. my mind's on shutdown mode from reading what you wrote...so good points.

one point i would like you to address though is this one...if Vader was so powerful then why did Luke beat him so easily?

Hehe

"one point i would like you to address though is this one...if Vader was so powerful then why did Luke beat him so easily?"

One one point it doesn't matter really. Vader was so powerful. His son became even more powerful than him. He himself acknowledges that in Shadows of the Empire. Even the Emperor foresaw that in the movies. We may never know why Luke became better than his father, but it is said that the force was stronger in Luke than Vader. No clear answer is given why. One assumption is that Luke retained all Vader's midichlorians and had his own as well by some will of the force, and was destined to do all this. We may never know how Luke mananged this much power, but in light of thse events, one interesting thing to watch out for is his son Ben. Who knows if he would become even better than Luke?

I already addressed that. GL has made it clear that Luke can defeat Vader because Vader has become de-powered. Luke was only a Padawan at the time and could not have beaten any of the powerful Jedi at their prime. Vader has lost not only his force power, but his speed and dexterity as well.

Ush,
In TPM Anakin is refered to as having a higher mid. count than even Master Yoda......and we all know that Yoda is, if not the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy at the time one of them.......
so even a depleted Anakin is more powerful than the average Jedi or even some of the most powerful, plus Vader can tap into the darkside to defeat his foes....this is probably what he does in ROTS.....along with Sidious's help.......
Luke is very talented and powerful but he is not fully trained.....
Yoda refers to Luke as not being a Jedi yet in ROTJ until he faces Vader, and that Luke is trained well enough to confront both Vader and the Emperor......this tells me he is very powerful, but still raw.....
By suggesting that Leia is another choice if Luke somehow fails tells me that she too possess's the same qualities as Luke........

So after all of this and know of Kyp's talents, I dont think that he is as powerful as Vader/Luke or heck even Leia

darth vader

Originally posted by MadHeretic
Some people here are totally misinformed.
Where did you get the idea that Kyp is more powerful than Luke? Kyp doesn't even compare to Luke!

Nowhere does it say Kyp is more powerful than Luke, except one moment when an arrogant and cocky Kyp thinks that he is more powerful.

It took both Exar Kun and Kyp to take down Luke.

Luke handled the slayers with ease and saved Jacen and Jaina as well, who were struggling against them. Kyp was no match for the slayers compared to Luke's power, and was captured by them after being defeated (TUF).

Vader didn't hold back against Luke in their duel. In fact, Vader KNEW HIMSELF that Luke was MORE POWERFUL than himself AND the Emperor. Read the book Shadows of the Empire for more details.

In fact he knew that Luke would've defeated him in Empire Strikes Back, if he became angry instead of getting confused.

Luke - described as THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN THE GALAXY - official Star Wars databank (check bio of Anakin Solo and Mara Jade).

Also described so by Star Wars authors Aaron Allston and Walter J Williams.

Luke - more powerful than the Emperor and Vader (SOTE, Dark Empire, ROTJ), and Vader and the Emperor are more powerful than Yoda, Mace etc (Episode 3), and Kyp Durron is nowhere near any of these people.

There's a reason why Luke is explained as THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN THE GALAXY.

In addition, the force feats of Luke are numerours, from being at 2 places at once even through hyperspace, levitating, Flying the falcon along with all it's weapons all through the force (all COPL), to manipulating thousands of minds at once (Crystal Star), to healing himself using the force from a mortal injury (COPL), healing Mara completely that even Vergere's tears couldn't heal (TUF), to saving Jacen numerous times with such power that Jacen could only awe (Dark Tide: Onslaught, TUF), lightsaber skills that no one else save Mace Windu with his 7th form displayed (TUF), to force lightning more powerful than any other seen (TUF, Dark Empire), to taking down an AT-AT singlehandedly in seconds (Dark Empire), to being resistant to force choke and able to create powerful force shields to save those around him as well (Dark Empire), to creating an entire fortress with the force alone (blackfeet cris), to levitate across lava fields (JAT), and many, many more.

No one stood a chance against him, from Darth Vader to the Emperor, to the powerful Vong warriors, the slayers and Shimrra. The official statements explaining him as the most powerful of the Jedi is in addition to all this..

Crystal clear.

I totally agree with you.

Originally posted by MadHeretic
Vader didn't hold back against Luke in their duel. In fact, Vader KNEW HIMSELF that Luke was MORE POWERFUL than himself AND the Emperor. Read the book Shadows of the Empire for more details.
Vader knew that Luke had the potential to become more powerful then him because Vader had lost much of his true potential when he became a half-machine.

Luke's training was complete in ROTJ and thus he was a big threat but he had not reached his full potential by ROTJ.

And Luke was no match for the Emperor in ROTJ.

Originally posted by MadHeretic
In fact he knew that Luke would've defeated him in Empire Strikes Back, if he became angry instead of getting confused.
This is your assumption.

Luke was just a padawan in ESB and his training was not even complete yet. Vader proved to be far stronger then Luke in ESB. He out-classed Luke even in the Saber combat and chopped off his hand. Luke stood no chance against Vader in ESB.

Originally posted by MadHeretic
Luke - described as THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN THE GALAXY - official Star Wars databank (check bio of Anakin Solo and Mara Jade).
Luke became the most powerful Jedi in Star Wars after the Dark Empire period.

Originally posted by MadHeretic
Luke - more powerful than the Emperor and Vader (SOTE, Dark Empire, ROTJ), and Vader and the Emperor are more powerful than Yoda, Mace etc (Episode 3), and Kyp Durron is nowhere near any of these people.
Luke became more powerful then the Emperor after the Dark Empire period.

Emperor became more powerful then Yoda by the Dark Empire period.

Originally posted by MadHeretic
There's a reason why Luke is explained as THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN THE GALAXY.
He becomes most powerful in the Expanded Universe.

Originally posted by MadHeretic
No one stood a chance against him, from Darth Vader to the Emperor, to the powerful Vong warriors, the slayers and Shimrra. The official statements explaining him as the most powerful of the Jedi is in addition to all this..
By NJO period no one stands a chance against him, so I agree.

Who are you guys responding to?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I already addressed that. GL has made it clear that Luke can defeat Vader because Vader has become de-powered. Luke was only a Padawan at the time and could not have beaten any of the powerful Jedi at their prime. Vader has lost not only his force power, but his speed and dexterity as well. Yeah, he lost speed and dexterity.. Let's repeat what all big boys say. There still is no indication in the movies that Vader has trouble moving with his suit. Granted, it may sound logical that he is restricted by the suit but it's science fiction.
All that crap about Luke, Obi Wan and Vader being bad swordsmen still remains a load of nonsense made up by people who think they know Star Wars.

Luke can defeat Vader because lightsaber duels are variable as hell.

Vader, greatest screen villain of all time beats Kyp