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I think that he has still the weakness. If he has it, heat vision, baby. If not, then Manhunter could be capable to win.

yeah other than the fire id take MM because he has super powerful telepathy, which Superman is very vulnerble to.

MM does still have his fire issue,but by means of self psychotherapy, he has a great deal of control over it. also, he's been secretly working with that fire lady(volcana) i think, i dont know it may not be her but a woman who weilds fire nonetheless to help him conquer his phobia. other than than that he's basically superman with telepathy and phasing powers. so its hard to say who would win

His durability and speed dont compare to superman though.

No, they don't. But telepathy and shape-shifting would probably help him.

Superman has some kind of weakness to green, whether it'd be that special rock, or someone with more versatility, or something else. I'm waiting for Superman to get his ass kicked by a head of lettuce.

Or Jade. Yay for green chicks.

it seems that MM has no longer weakness to fire, in that case MM all the way.

Even if he still had it, he has mind powers. MIND POWAR!!!

Manhunter can become intangible so Supes can't touch him.

yes but when he is afraid of fire he is not able to use well his powers, but now that is no longer true

They are team up from JLA

Um, yeah, we get that. But thanks for the info.

superman isnt totally vulnerable to telepathy. he has ways to protect himself from it. MM isnt nearly as strong as superman (for the entire duration of the fight) either. when they were fighting in a few brief skirmishes i believe they were about equal. but i think in a long drawn out battle, superman would actually win (especially if he had a will to win, he seems to always find a way).

and no........ i'm not a superman fan or fanboy in any way shape or form. in fact i know very little of DC. but that doesnt mean i'm totally stupid on the subject

Huh?

For those who claim that "MM isn't NEARLY as strong as Superman" in strength OR in terms of durability, I say simply...

LoL.

"The powers and abilities of the Martian Manhunter are a mystery to most people and to extent even his friends. He has the ability to totally control his physical structure allowing him to shape shift, morph fluidly, and even turn invisible or intangible briefly. >>>Physically he is Superman's league in terms of strength and endurance."

http://www.dcuguide.com/Who/MartianManhunter_Bio.php

Notice the last word of the quote? "ENDURANCE?" That means...the duration of ANY fight.

That's SO funny. Wonder Woman is NEARLY as strong as Superman. She along with Martian Manhunter helped to move Earth AND the Moon.

Apparently you do know very little about DC...so I will educate you (yet again) on some of the character's strength levels.

Some DC Strength Levels (and all PLEASE feel free to comment as you see fit):

And, by the way, this is just a numbers rating - NOT necessarily 100 TONS.

General Zod: 100 plus whatever added strength his armour provides
Superman: 100
Eradicator: 100
Green Lantern: 100 (upper limits with ring augmentation)
Martian Manhunter: 100
Lobo: 100
Wonder Woman: 98
Lex Luthor battlesuit: 40
Steel: 40
Maxima: 75
Aquaman: 25
Hawkman: 10
Dr. Fate: 25ish via mystical means
Batman/Nightwing/Green Arrows: Very well-trained, but regular guys
Flash: Regular guy

i can also provide a link to websites that doesnt make you correct. if i'm not mistaken MM has to reconfigure his structure to make himself as strong as superman. even then he can only do it for a couple of minutes or so. he cannot be as strong as superman as long as superman. so unless you have actual comic book numbers where MM puts up an incredible fight with superman, you didnt educate or prove me wrong. as soon as i find the link to the website i will post it.

LoL, DO that. And I will provide YOU with QUOTES from WRITERS for DC Comics that support the DCUniverse bio and that will refute WHATEVER post you come back with.



You ARE mistaken until you prove otherwise.



Issue numbers where MM can "only do it for a couple of minutes or so." I gah-roun-TEE you will not find any consistent accounts of MM being able to "only do it for a couple of minutes" considering that his being Superman level in endurance is CANON, not opinion.



LoL, you are so ignorant. You CLAIM you know little about DC characters (no kidding) yet try to refute another's claim who knows WAY more about comic characters than you do. MM has tossed around the JLA several times and Superman has stated that Martian Manhunter is either equal to or more powerful than him SEVERAL times. Um DUH, why do you THINK that the JLA suffered NONE at all in terms of strength when Superman transformed into the energy-based being? Because of J'onn J'onnz.

But sure, JuggernautFAN. I will once again provide issue numbers that will shut you up yet AGAIN.

well, laugh all you want. it doesnt make you right.





he might be able to last as long as superman, but it still doesnt make him as strong.


That's SO funny. Wonder Woman is NEARLY as strong as Superman. She along with Martian Manhunter helped to move Earth AND the Moon.


so if i helped stone cold steve austin in a wrestling match does that mean i do most of the work?? MM can be as strong as superman, but only for brief periods of time. ww might be -nearly- as strong, but isnt as strong.




you are far from educating me. you have proved nothing.






i didnt feel the list was important as i dont think it proves anything or helps your arguement in the least. but here is a link for you and here is what it says .........


http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/profiles/mmanhunter/manhunter.html


"Super Strength: The Martian's superhuman strength comes from his plasmorphic structure formed from immensely long and complex molecular chains, augmented with his psionic and telekinetic abilities allowing him to lift incredible weights without these weights crumbling under the stress. The Martian has been seen lifting small tankers out of the ocean for short distances. By modifing the density of these bio-polymers, the Manhunter can make himself stronger by forcing the polymers into tighter bundles. At a rest state, the Manhunter can lift approximately 20 tons. Given a few minutes to reconfigure, he could match Superman pound for pound for about a minute. "

notice that last sentence............. it says match superman pound for pound for a MINUTE. thats it. not all that long is it?? well i'm glad i could educate you on this matter.

again, this is just a bunch of moot points. i gave a website, you gave one. whats your point??? i'm not going to debate this with you because you probably do know more on the subject. not that it seems that way

*yawn*

Issue numbers soon coming to shut you up once again.

Re: your wack website reference, wolverinefanguy presented us with a website that said Johhny Storm was a better fighter than Spiderman was...RIGHT? But HMMMM, those of us who are IN the know KNOW better. Just like VENOM held his own against Juggernaut, RIGHT? But hmm, MOST of us who are in the know recognize an inconsistent portrayal when we see one.

As far as YOU educating ME on ANYTHING...LoL, like you did by telling me Juggernaut was immortal? And what did you support that statement with? Nadadamnthang.

wait wait wait........ just a second here. why dont i see you logged in at the top?? n e way, the website looks legit to me. it provides just as much information as the website that you did. please get those issue numbers cause right now you have nothing. juggernaut is immortal. it seems to me that in 30 years and not one day of aging should say something........ your an idiot.

LoL...."your an idiot?"

I see you still do not know the difference between a possessive and a contraction?

"Your" a moron.

Hmm, 30 years and having Juggernaut not age should say something? LMAO, the comic strip The Family Circus has been running for 40 years, and the children have not aged one YEAR. That means they're immortal? Spiderman's first appearance was in 1962, so he should be SIXTY PLUS years old...but he's not, and has not aged SINCE, so HE'S immortal? How old is Batman, considering Detective Comics #27 came out in 1939? Has Batman aged in the comic books? Hmm, that would make Batman at LEAST 80 years old? But since he hasn't aged, HE'S immortal? Dumbass. Comics? Did some fanboy say something about comics?

APPEARANCES:
Action Comics #365-366, 595, 690, 692, 753-754, 757, 791
Adventure Comics #449-451
Adventures of Superman #497-498, 522, 551, 565-567, 570, 605
Animal Man #9
Armageddon 2001 #2
Aquaman (1st series) #18, 30
Aquaman (5th series) #16-17, 28, 50, 54, 65-69
Aquaman (6th series) #1-2
Aztek: The Ultimate Man #10
Bloodbath #1-2
Blue Beetle (2nd series) #20
Booster Gold #22, 25
Brave and the Bold #28-30, 50, 56
Captain Atom #24-25
Chase #1-2
Cosmic Odyssey #1-4
Crisis on Infinite Earths #5-9, 12
Damage #7, 15
Darkstars #30
Day of Judgement #1
DC Bonus Book #7
DC Comics Presents #27
DC One Million #1-4
DCU Heroes: Secret Files and Origins #1
Detective Comics #225-271, 274-326, 557, 714-715
Doctor Fate (1st series) #3
Eclipso #16-18
Eclipso: The Darkness Within #2
Final Night #1-3
Flash (1st series) #175
Flash (2nd series) #8, 92, 128-129, 136-137
Formerly Known as the Justice League #5-6
Genesis #1-4
Green Lantern (2nd series) #29
Green Lantern (3rd series) #4, 9, 18, 63-64, 69, 81, 87, 96, 103, 149, 1,000,000
Green Lantern Corps #220
Guy Gardner: Warrior #33
Haven: The Broken City #5
Hawkman (3rd series) #22, 31-33
House of Mystery #143-173
Infinity Inc #19
Invasion! #1-3
JLA #1-7, 10-12, 14-23, 26-27, 32, 35, 37-41, 43-64, 66-68, 70, 72, 74-76, 84-current, 1,000,000
JLA Annual #1, 3
JLA: Incarnations #1-7
JLA: Paradise Lost #1-3
JLA: Secret Files and Origins #1-2
JLA/Titans #1-3
JLA: World Without Grown-Ups #1-2
Justice League #1-6
Justice League: A Midsummer's Nightmare #1-3
Justice League America #26-29, 31-32, 34-44, 51-71, 73-77, 89, 91, 101-102, 112
Justice League Annual #1
Justice League Europe #5, 7-8, 13, 27-35, 49-50
Justice League Europe Annual #2
Justice League International (1st series) #7-25
Justice League International (2nd series) #65-66, 68
Justice League International Annual (1st series) #2
Justice League of America #1-24, 26-27,31, 33, 36, 38, 40-41, 44, 50, 52, 54, 59-61, 71, 100, 115, 144, 177-178, 187, 200, 228-230, 232-261
Justice League of America Annual #2-3, 6, 9
Justice League Quarterly #3, 5-6, 9
Justice League Task Force #0-37
Justice League Special #1
Legends #1-2, 6
Martian Manhunter (1st series) #1-4
Martian Manhunter (2nd series) #0-5, 7-36, 1,000,000
Martian Manhunter Annual #1-2
Martian Manhunter: American Secrets #1-3
Martian Manhunter Special #1
Millennium #1, 3-5
Mister Miracle (2nd series) #10, 14, 16-17, 27
Mystery in Space #75
Power of Shazam! #45
Ray (2nd series) #0
Resurrection Man #2
Sandman #5, 72
Secret Origins (2nd series) #23
Showcase '93 #10
Showcase '95 #9
Showcase '96 #9
Silver Age #1
Silver Age 80 page Giant #1
Silver Age: Dial H For Hero #1
Silver Age: Green Lantern #1
Silver Age: Secret Files #1
Suicide Squad (1st series) #13
Superboy and the Ravers #14
Supergirl (4th series) #65
Superman (1st series) #199, 253
Superman (2nd series) #74-75, 128, 143, 147, 179, 181, 183
Superman: The Man of Steel #88, 92, 125
Superman: The Man of Tomorrow #13
The Fury of Firestorm, Nuclear Man (2nd series) #63-64, 67-68
The Fury of Firestorm, Nuclear Man Annual #5
Total Justice #1-3
Time Masters #1
Underworld Unleashed #1-3
War of the Gods #2, 4
Weird #1-4
Wonder Woman (2nd series) #125-126, 140-141, 177
World's Finest Comics #212, 245
Young Justice #5-6
Zero Hour: Crisis in Time! #1-3

Have fun.

stop it you two!

point well taken. you're an idiot (not really, it just produces faster results when you insult people)





but spiderman has shown signs of aging. i could care less about the dc characters mentioned. i dont read much of it. Juggernaut IS immortal. please feel free to back up your comment that he isnt. cause "forever more" was the very inscription that he read. he doesnt eat breathe or drink and is sustained by magic...... forever. its also in alternate realities (what if vol 2. #93 or 94) that juggernaut is the only person/being left on planet earth. because everybody was wiped out by sentinels and radiation. i know alternate realities hold little water, but it was talking about juggernaut having the mind of a normal man and being in the body of an -IMMORTAL-. so again i say feel free to prove me wrong on a the subject of juggernaut....... good luck with that one.





thanks for the list by the way. but theres still 1 thing i need you to do for me. what does he do in all these issues??? does he fight superman in any of them?? or are they just appearances??? cause otherwise its just a list of appearances. how does this prove your point??? i would like you to educate me on the subject instead of just throwing out a bunch of moot points. i admit i am ill informed on DC, but any information you can provide would be helpful.......

stop what, we are simply debating the subject

What the hell kind of website had Human Torch as good a fighter as Spider-Man?? Perhaps the www.ilovejohnnystorm.com moniker would tip that guy off as to its absurdity. I don't know a damn thing about Martian Manhunter beyond the profiles I just read, but I think it's fairly obvious: Old Superman would annihilate him, new Superman would have trouble but in the end it would come down to whatever the writer decided to do...

well it always comes down to what the writer decides to do.

calling yourselves names doesn't look like a "simple debate"

atleast we arent going off topic

What about the Martian's advanced psychic abilities? Surely he could weaken Superman in that respect?

hysterical

LoL @ not caring about the DC issues - because it exposes you for the know-little that you are?

Re: Spiderman showing signs of aging, has Namor? Cyclops? Storm? Colossus? Billy Batson? Nope, nope, nope. Thought not.

Since you're nifty on bios, show us ONE - just ONE Juggernaut bio wherein it says that Juggernaut is immortal OR that Juggernaut has a healing factor. I bet you your G.E.D. that you cannot.

Of COURSE J'onn J'onnzz battles Superman AND the JLA in several of the issues listed. Comb through them.

Alternate realities? LMAO -- say it slowly with us. ALTERNATE REALITY -- as in OUT OF CONTINUITY.

oh come on it was funny, no need to get mad.

Noone ages in comics, when a new issue or version is spewed out, everyone is in their prime!

Precisely. But because JUGGERNAUT has not aged, it means that he is immortal, although NOWHERE in ANY bio has it EVER been expressly stated that he is immortal.

Makes perfect sense if you are a fanboy, right?

Well Spider-Man has to show signs of aging, he was a teenager when he got his powers. It gets boring to read about teenage angst crap for 40 years. Thus he had to get older and get married, etc. The stupid thing is that Aunt May doesn't age. The damn woman's in her 90s!

It's very subjective. It became depressing that Spiderman isn't trying to take over the world or something, yet can't find employment in the normal way either!

Hey, he gets paid for taking pictures of himself and has a hot wife. Let's not feel too sorry for the guy.

If I were him I'd have tried to take over in some such way as was suggested in the 90s show, like taking over the disintegrating Soviet Union.

That wouldn't do much, he's about 50 years too late, lol.



TOPIC! *looks around nervously*

But because Aunt May does not age in comics it means that she is immortal (I already know your answer; this is simply to disprove the posit that NOT aging necessarily renders one immortal in comics)?

What? In no way was I hinting that Aunt May is immortal, just that she's outlived her usefulness. Although technically she 'came back from the dead.' (I hate the smile part of that, there's no joy in the rolling of my eyes there)

Yuck. I guess the phrasing does make it sound as if I was accusing you of saying Aunt May is immortal.

No, apologies for the dubious wording. Just simply pointing out that a character NOT aging does not mean that the character is immortal -- this is what JF is attempting to state about Juggernaut.

Still waiting for the bio, JF. I am not immortal; I bet I will DIE before you find a bio stating that Juggernaut is immortal

No problem. Though it does seem sometimes that she's immortal cause she just won't DIE!

i said i was ill informed on DC. i dont read them, i dont like them -much- very rarely do i find something interesting from thier comics. it doesnt expose me to anything........





i was just making a point. yes the x-men have shown signs of aging.




i said nothing of bio's. in fact i despise thier use in debates because they prove nothing. the only reason i posted a website of mm is because you did. i dont have a G.E.D. i have a diploma. Juggernaut has regenerative capabilities that is quite obvious. he has survived things that even immortals (hercules, thor) could not survive. he -IS- -IMMORTAL-. feel free to prove otherwise.




well give me a list of the issues where he does fight them, and i'll check into that. otherwise its still a list of appearances. if i give you a list of juggernauts appearances will that help me in a debate of Hulk vs. Juggernaut??? well of coarse it will, but only the issues where they actually fight. the rest of them are useless.




like i said, it is an alternate reality, but magneto talks about several in it. juggernaut was immortal in -all- of them. he survived when nobody else did. yes yes, i know it has no baring on main stream reality, but you still cannot prove that he is not immortal....... i'd say the words "forever more a human juggernaut" speaks for itself.





i am far from a fanboy. prove otherwise that he is capable of being killed while connected to his magics. the bios dont have to state it to be true. they dont state that he has regenerative capabilites but he has proved that he does have them by regenerating faster than any one else has proven capable of doing.

if you want to debate about juggernauts healing/regenerative abilities and or if he is immortal or not, start another thread, this is the wrong place to do it.






no, juggernaut IS immortal. he survives things nobody else can, his magics make him so. please prove otherwise. then i'll accept he isnt. but until you show me a bio that says hes not immortal, i'll continue to believe he is.

Show me a bio that says that Juggernaut is immortal or that Juggernaut has a healing factor.

You know, WOLVERINE'S bio states that HE has a healing factor.

So does Deadpool's. So does Hulk's. So does Sabertooth's. So does Lady Deathstrike's.

So how come Juggernaut's doesn't? Because he does not HAVE one. He is NOT immortal.

Show us more than your opinion...if you can. Come on, Fan. You can do it.

"SHOWN signs of aging?" Hmm, if you go without sleep for 3 days and endure off the charts stress levels, will it not LOOK as if you aged (in comic book terms)? So now because it LOOKS as if you've aged...you HAVE aged.

"Show me a bio that says Juggernaut is not immortal." LoL, that's rich. Show me a bio that says Wolverine CANNOT spit a loogey six miles. Show me a bio that says Jean Grey cannot kick a dime from here to Ghana.

LMAO, because it's NOT in the bio, it means they have the capability? Wooooooooooooo

show us ONE - just ONE Juggernaut bio wherein it says that Juggernaut is not immortal OR that Juggernaut does not have a healing factor



this is for you never.

So why is it that EVERY other character who has a healing factor or is immortal says it? You know, similar to THIS one (since this is your favorite resource):

Like all Asgardians, Thor is >>>>>>>>>>>extremely long-lived (although not
immortal like the Olympians

http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_shield/profiles/thor/thor.html

Hmm, THIS says:

The Juggernaut can survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen. He is sustained by his mystical energies alone.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/j/juggernaut.htm

Hellooooooo, healing factor? Immortality?

And yet another:

Powers/Abilities: The Juggernaut is clad in unbreakable armor and has incredible strength and resistance to weapons and injury. As long as he has his helmet on, he is also impervious to any type of mental attacks.

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/juggernaut.html

AND ANOTHER:

Special Skills/Abilities: none <--------- whoa whoa what have we here? NO special skills/abilities? HMMMM

Superhuman physical powers: Superhuman strength, and durability; the mystical attribute of being completely unstoppable (once in motion, no physical force or obstacle can halt the Juggernaut's progress); the ability to generate a protective force field <--------- whoa no immortality? HMMM

http://www.immortalthor.net/

Hmmm, healing factor? Like THIS you mean?

Accelerated Healing
The Hulk has probably the quickest healing factor than anyone in the Marvel Universe, including Wolverine. Wounds that would be deadly to most other heroes takes just a short time for the Hulk to recover. <------

We present to you EXHIBIT A:

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/healing.JPG

This was after the battle with the U-Foes during which Vector sheared off nigh EVERYTHING.

EXHIBIT B:

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/durability.GIF

Hmmm, when Hulk JUMPED into orbit (LoL, I forgot - Juggernaut has GREAT LEAPING ABILITIES TOO) and survived reentry.

EXHIBIT C:

Hulk #340 wherein a GREY HULK took Wolverine's claws through his chest and healed completely a few panels later, stating: "Now let's...try that again."

ODD how ALL of these bios reference the character's being long-lived or possessing a healing factor save JUGGERNAUT'S.

But because Juggernaut's bio does NOT state that he does not have regen powers or is not immortal, it means that he MIGHT possess a regen ability or is immortal?

blabla

Superman Vs MartianManhunter...

yes he does have one.......... he regenerated his eyes when they were cut out by a mystically forged sword. he regenerated his entire body when his power was returned (when d'spayre took them, then they were returned by spite). just because its not in the bios does not mean its not there. Juggernaut can regenerate and very fast at that.





i just did. read the issues. that way i can shut your mouth. you know nothing of juggernaut.





Juggernaut is immortal, you still dont address the issues that he survives things that thor or hercules (whom are immortal) could not do. why is that?? could it be you are wrong??? why yes, it would seem as though you were.......

you would have to ask marvel that one...... i dont know. he does have regenerative capabilities, he is immortal. prove otherwise.

If Juggernaut was invulnerable, would he NEEEEEEED to regenerate? D'oh!

Odd how he "regenerated" so quickly after Onslaught backhanded him from Canada to New York?

LoL

And neither Thor nor Hercules are immortal. Are you SURE you read comics? Rather, are you sure you UNDERSTAND what you read?

Talk about Juggernaut someplace else!

CLOSED

once again you have to refer to onslaught (very poor writing no matter how you look at it) because thats the last resort for everybody when dealing with juggernaut. the battle wasnt show. the one that was shown was a psionic attack. to which onslaught trapped juggernaut with the confines of the gem. please feel free to find me a scan of onslaught backhanding juggernaut......... but its not going to happen, cause it doesnt exist.

also, juggernaut is suseptable to mystical attacks. which is why he needs regenerative capabilities. he was attacked with magics from d'spayre and he was attacked with a mystically forged blade from shatterstar. both from which he regenerated near instantly. D'oh. man you are just getting put down all over the place eh?