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Who wins?

Don't see the Fury adapting to outright nullification.

He survived the celestial nullifier. coffee1

^Beat me to it

That's right. Was thinking that The Fury that Captain Britain/Co. dropped was from 616; I'd forgotten that Fury came over from the 238 universe that Merlyn destroyed.

Fury stomps . Short of the Superman Thought Robot , Fury's adapting powers sh!t all over anything DC has shown in its adapters .

I'm thinking stalemate.

The E/A cannot harm Fury to any lasting extent, but what can Fury do to put down the E/A?

fury

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Fury stomps . Short of the Superman Thought Robot , Fury's adapting powers sh!t all over anything DC has shown in its adapters .

Amazo! Or Chimera.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Amazo! Or Chimera.
I don't recall Amazo being an adapter . I am not familiar with Chimera .

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm thinking stalemate.

The E/A cannot harm Fury to any lasting extent, but what can Fury do to put down the E/A?
Figure out a way to release the soul animating the armor , essentially rendering it useless(unless and until it can act on its own accord in combat) ?

That's digging pretty deep, but w/e.

I don't think so . Fury was pretty much a walking (non-)talking plot device , and adapted according to the situation presented before it .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I don't think so . Fury was pretty much a walking (non-)talking plot device , and adapted according to the situation presented before it .

That's basically what Chimera was. He was a walking plot device and could adapt to pretty much anything, IIRC. A fight with him and Fury could be a stalemate.

Originally posted by Golgo13
That's basically what Chimera was. He was a walking plot device and could adapt to pretty much anything, IIRC. A fight with him and Fury could be a stalemate.
Could he survive universal nullification and figure out a way to beat a potential omniversal power ?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I don't think so . Fury was pretty much a walking (non-)talking plot device , and adapted according to the situation presented before it . Just saying that Fury never adapted the specific type ability you mentioned (ie. soul manipulation), so it's sketchy to assume it: a.) is capable of doing so at all, and b.) would do so here.

That line of thinking borders on a no-limits fallacy, and is one of the reasons why h1's version of H/P Doomsday irritates the hell out of most people.

Originally posted by Galan007
Just saying that Fury never adapted the specific type ability you mentioned (ie. soul manipulation), so it's sketchy to assume it: a.) is capable of doing so at all, and b.) would do so here.

That line of thinking borders on a no-limits fallacy, and is one of the reasons why h1's version of H/P Doomsday irritates the hell out of most people.
Barring a weakened state , Fury at his average levels was capable of adapting to anything . IIRC , he developed a dimensional-teleporter as a result of his adapting powers .
While I agree that there is no evidence that he could develop such an ability , its not a stretch to assume that it would be a likely possibility in a battleboard fight imo .
Also unlike Doomsday , who was clearly mentioned as being incapable of evolving past entropy , the precise limits to Fury's adapting powers were never shown iirc .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Barring a weakened state , Fury at his average levels was capable of adapting to anything . IIRC , he developed a dimensional-teleporter as a result of his adapting powers .
While I agree that there is no evidence that he could develop such an ability , its not a stretch to assume that it would be a likely possibility in a battleboard fight imo .
Also unlike Doomsday , who was clearly mentioned as being incapable of evolving past entropy , the precise limits to Fury's adapting powers were never shown iirc . I am not saying it is beyond Fury's ability to manipulate souls, I am simply saying that we have absolutely NO way of knowing... What we know: we know that within 2 years Fury became more powerful than every meta-being on earth 238, and killed all of them -- we know it was able to endure nullification -- we know it evolved the ability to absorb other tech and teleport -- we know it evolved beyond MJJ's ability to warp -- we know that it had a finite energy source(it was nearly powerless after it's battle with MJJ.)

Aside from the above, anything else stated regarding Fury's evolutionary ability is speculation. If someone were to say: "No, Fury can NOT evolve the ability to manipulate souls!" How could you really form an argument to the contrary? Not saying I disagree with you, but that line of logic does border on a no-limits fallacy.

Originally posted by Galan007
I am not saying it is beyond Fury's ability to manipulate souls, I am simply saying that we have absolutely NO way of knowing... What we know: we know Fury became more powerful than every meta-being on earth 238, and killed all of them, within 2 years -- we know it was able to endure nullification -- we know it evolved the ability to absorb other tech and teleport -- we know it evolved beyond MJJ's ability to warp -- we know that it had a finite energy source(it was nearly powerless after it's battle with MJJ.)

Aside from the above, anything else stated regarding Fury's evolutionary ability is speculation. If someone were to say: "No, Fury can NOT evolve the ability to manipulate souls!" How could you really form an argument to the contrary? Not saying I disagree with you, but that line of logic does border on a no-limits fallacy.
Its actually only a possibility that I postulated . You did ask what could the Fury do the Aegis , and I gave you a scenario based on how the Aegis was decommisioned(by freeing Johns soul from it) .

As far as an NLF goes , Fury's adaption powers appeared to be pretty NLFy to me . IMO , if there is a possibility that its opponent can be beaten , then the Fury(as long as its not out of gas) could most likely adapt accordingly to execute the perfect strategy to beat that opponent .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Its actually only a possibility that I postulated . You did ask what could the Fury do the Aegis , and I gave you a scenario based on how the Aegis was decommisioned(by freeing Johns soul from it) .

As far as an NLF goes , Fury's adaption powers appeared to be pretty NLFy to me . IMO , if there is a possibility that its opponent can be beaten , then the Fury(as long as its not out of gas) could most likely adapt accordingly to execute the perfect strategy to beat that opponent .

Wasn't the last Fury stopped by the X-Men?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Wasn't the last Fury stopped by the X-Men?
If you're referring to the Uncanny X-Men incident , then both the Fury(/ies) and Jaspers were alternate versions , and neither of them were remotely at the level of the originals .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
If you're referring to the Uncanny X-Men incident , then both the Fury(/ies) and Jaspers were alternate versions , and neither of them were remotely at the level of the originals .

What happened to the original one?

Originally posted by Golgo13
What happened to the original one?
Actually now that I rechecked it , there were TWO X-Men incidences . One was in Astonishing X-Men Xenogenesis' , and the other was in Uncanny . In Xeno , the Furies were from an alternate universe , and in Uncanny , it was a facsimile created by Jamie Braddock which was defeated by the weaksauce Rachel Summers .

The original was defeated after it reappeared merged with MJJ , during Wanda's chaos . Don't remember the exact context of his defeat though .

Thanks, but does the MJJ merge make him more powerful? What year did we last see the OG Fury?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Thanks, but does the MJJ merge make him more powerful? What year did we last see the OG Fury?
I don't recall any uber feats from him that would validate such an assumption , although the implication definitely should be that a combined being like that would theoretically be unstoppable .

That said , he was defeated by the Captain Britain Corps(although not w/o heavy losses on their part) , and I don't remember the exact context behind his defeat .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Its actually only a possibility that I postulated . You did ask what could the Fury do the Aegis , and I gave you a scenario based on how the Aegis was decommisioned(by freeing Johns soul from it) .

As far as an NLF goes , Fury's adaption powers appeared to be pretty NLFy to me . IMO , if there is a possibility that its opponent can be beaten , then the Fury(as long as its not out of gas) could most likely adapt accordingly to execute the perfect strategy to beat that opponent . This same logic could (and has) been used for H/P Doomsday. ie. unless his opponent wields entropic energies, DD will ultimately adapt beyond ANY opponent he faces, no matter HOW powerful they are (search h1's posts if you don't believe me.)

Do you not see the problem with that?

Originally posted by Galan007
This same logic could (and has) been used for H/P Doomsday. ie. unless his opponent wields entropic energies, DD will ultimately adapt beyond ANY opponent he faces, no matter HOW powerful they are (search h1's posts if you don't believe me.)

Do you not see the problem with that?
Except Doomsday was shown to have a limit to to his adaption powers , while Fury didn't . As pertains adaption ability , Fury is in a completely different league compared to Doomsday . h1's pi$$-poor logic is irrelevant to all of this .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Except Doomsday was shown to have a limit to to his adaption powers , while Fury didn't . As pertains adaption ability , Fury is in a completely different league compared to Doomsday . h1's pi$$-poor logic is irrelevant to all of this . The only thing H/P Doomsday was unable to evolve beyond was entropy-- hence my above statement: "unless his opponent wields entropic energies, DD will ultimately adapt beyond ANY opponent he faces, no matter HOW powerful they are."

I agree that h1's logic regarding H/P DD (see above) is poor, but it's very similar to the logic you're using on Fury's behalf (in the no-limits fallacy sense.)

Fury. EA is powerful sure but the thing was still a Probe that had been improvised by Apokoliptian tech. Fury is a machine created by one of the most powerful reality warper in the MU. It fought and defeated said being. More likely than not the Fury will take apart the Aegis Entropy. It's far more advanced and has better feats under it.

Originally posted by Galan007
The only thing H/P Doomsday was unable to evolve beyond was entropy-- hence my above statement: "unless his opponent wields entropic energies, DD will ultimately adapt beyond ANY opponent he faces, no matter HOW powerful they are."

I agree that h1's logic regarding H/P DD (see above) is poor, but it's very similar to the logic you're using on Fury's behalf (in the no-limits fallacy sense.)
You mean to say that its feat of on-panel defeating one of the most powerful beings in Marvel Mainstream doesn't convince you that he would be capable of such power as to adapt to virtually any opponent presented before it and end up beating said opponent(not to mention the fact that he DID end up beating EVERY single superpowered being on the Earth of reality-238 , which would include magic based superbeings like soul manipulators) ?

Fury is not Doomsday . He has feats under his belt which a lower-level adapter like Doomsday could only dream of . Feats which would justify such a stance that I am taking about him in this thread . Trying to equate my logic to h1's is , frankly speaking , an underhanded tactic imo , and isn't going to deter the fact that Fury wins against the EA in this thread .

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Fury. EA is powerful sure but the thing was still a Probe that had been improvised by Apokoliptian tech. Fury is a machine created by one of the most powerful reality warper in the MU. It fought and defeated said being. More likely than not the Fury will take apart the Aegis Entropy. It's far more advanced and has better feats under it.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You mean to say that its feat of on-panel defeating one of the most powerful beings in Marvel Mainstream doesn't convince you that he would be capable of such power Never said Fury wasn't capable of such-- just said that we have no way of knowing. Fury never pulled an exotic offensive ability like that out of its ass-- all of the offensive abilities it adapted were physical, never metaphysical. Soul manipulation definitely qualifies as the latter. This isn't opinion, it's fact.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
as to adapt to virtually any opponent presented before it and end up beating said opponent(not to mention the fact that he DID end up beating EVERY single superpowered being on the Earth of reality-238 , which would include magic based superbeings like soul manipulators) ? Even IF you believe Fury beat soul manipulators on earth 238 (yet another assumption of yours) stretching that into Fury itself having the ability to manipulate souls is very, very faulty. For instance: Fury evolved beyond MJJ's ability to manipulate-- that doesn't mean it evolved the ability to warp the universe by proxy.

Frankly, you're wanking Fury a bit too much here. Can it win? Absolutely. But c'mon, soul manipulation? There's got to be something better than that... Something you can actually prove. :-/

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Fury is not Doomsday . He has feats under his belt which a lower-level adapter like Doomsday could only dream of . Feats which would justify such a stance that I am taking about him in this thread . Trying to equate my logic to h1's is , frankly speaking , an underhanded tactic imo , and isn't going to deter the fact that Fury wins against the EA in this thread . It wasn't meant to be underhanded(sorry if you took it that way.) You are, however, using an absolute no limits fallacy on behalf of Fury-- ie. "Fury adapted beyond MJJ's influence, therefore it can adapt ANY power it wants!" Sorry, but that is the exact same 'logic' h1 uses for Doomsday-- 'logic' that most (including myself) don't agree with, for obvious reasons.

The Fury could assimilate Entropy Aegis.

@Galan : As I said before , that was merely a possible scenario I postulated(the question mark at the end of that reply should have indicated that) .

Also , if you read through my previous post more closely , you'll realize that I gave made my stance clearer with the statement "as to adapt to virtually any opponent presented before it" .

Originally posted by "Id"
The Fury could assimilate Entropy Aegis. Fury's best tech-absorption feat was absorbing a cave-sized computer system. Impressive, to be sure, but certainly not impressive enough to make me believe it could absorb something as complex as the E/A. Furthermore, the E/A (unlike the cave-computer) would also be fighting back.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
@Galan : As I said before , that was merely a possible scenario I postulated(the question mark at the end of that reply should have indicated that) .

Also , if you read through my previous post more closely , you'll realize that I gave made my stance clearer with the statement "as to adapt to virtually any opponent presented before it" . Okay, cool. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Fury. EA is powerful sure but the thing was still a Probe that had been improvised by Apokoliptian tech. Fury is a machine created by one of the most powerful reality warper in the MU. It fought and defeated said being. More likely than not the Fury will take apart the Aegis Entropy. It's far more advanced and has better feats under it.

I'm not going to get involved in this debate because I don't have a clue as to the outcome, but I do know that who made what and how is totally irrelevant.

Amazo was made by a human, but managed to copy the Warlogog, a divine weapon (lasso), Oan tech (GL ring), etc.

Speaking of the Warlogog, that's New God tech. So's the Genesis Box, and lots of other fun toys. New God/Apokolips tech is no insignificant.

I never saw the Fury literally manipulate a soul.

However, he did kill (one shot) a character called "Iron Talon" from Earth 238.

"Talon" could transform into a phantom-like essence (completely invisible/intangible)

Don't know if that makes a difference or relates but I thought it was worth the mention.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I never saw the Fury literally manipulate a soul.

However, he did kill (one shot) a character called "Iron Talon" from Earth 238.

"Talon" could transform into a phantom-like essence (completely invisible/intangible)

Don't know if that makes a difference or relates but I thought it was worth the mention. Good point.

However, Zeitgeist had very similar abilities, and Fury was unable to adapt to him:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13157411_1.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13157413_2.jpg

Thanks to Zeitgeist, that grouping of heroes(The Special Executive, I think they were called) were able to get the better of Fury:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13157498/3.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13157500/4.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13157502/5.jpg.html

However, that was before Fury had absorbed the cave-sized computer, thus it was not at 'max powa'. It had still killed every hero on earth 238, and survived universal nullification, though, so it was still pretty uber.

Anyway, I really don't think Fury was capable of manipulating souls. I'm still not opposed to it defeating the E/A, though-- just don't see it happening via that particular method. It's too much of a stretch, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007

However, Zeitgeist had very similar abilities,
and Fury was unable to adapt to him:
I knew about that incident before I brought out "Iron Talon."

It's actually different friend.

Zeitgeist is an abstract entity.
He doesn't really exist within any reality because he materializes an avatar phantom form
from another dimension while his actual form stays within said other dimension.

That cat is no joke.

He can shift this phantom avatar form
to engage within whatever physical reality he's in.

This is why the Fury could not adapt, (or actually detect/register something to adapt)
Zeitgeist is never really there.

On the other hand, at-least a "soul" is connected to its parent reality.
Originally posted by Galan007

However, that was before Fury had absorbed the cave-sized
computer, thus it was not at 'max powa'. It had still killed every hero
on earth 238, and survived universal nullification, though, so it was
still pretty uber.


Originally posted by Galan007

Anyway, I really don't think Fury was capable of manipulating souls.
I'm still not opposed to it defeating the E/A, though-- just don't see it
happening via that particular method. It's too much of a stretch, imo.
I don't see Fury manipulating souls either, instead,
figuring a way to affect (attack) them is more plausible.

^^I agree that there is no evidence that Fury could manipulate souls , but removing the wearer's from the Aegis armor , and thus rendering it ineffective would be quite an excellent strategy(presuming it was capable of such a feat) imo .

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't see Fury manipulating souls either, instead,
figuring a way to affect (attack) them is more plausible. More plausible, sure, but I still don't believe that it's a very probable tactic. Like I mentioned earlier: all of the offensive abilities Fury adapted were physical-- not metaphysical, like attacking ones soul would have to be. That should be taken into consideration when we start making up new abilities for Fury, imo.

Tbh, I'd be more comfortable with the opinion that Fury can adapt to a point(or perhaps it already starts there) where it is simply more powerful than the armor in every sense, and destroys it outright via lazer canon. To me, that makes more sense (and is more 'in character') then it evolving an obscure/exotic offensive ability, like soul manip. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
More plausible, sure, but I still don't believe that it's a very probable tactic. Like I mentioned earlier: all of the offensive abilities Fury adapted were physical-- not metaphysical, like attacking ones soul would have to be. That should be taken into consideration when we start making up new abilities for Fury, imo.

Tbh, I'd be more comfortable with the opinion that Fury can simply adapt to a point(or perhaps he already starts there) where he is more powerful than the armor in every sense, and destroys it outright via lazer canon. To me, that makes more sense then him evolving an obscure/exotic offensive ability, like soul manip. /shrug
Looking at this , I agree with you . I think that soul-removal strategy part of my explanation was too far-fetched afterall .

Originally posted by Galan007

More plausible, sure, but I still don't believe that it's a very
probable tactic. Like I mentioned earlier: all of the offensive abilities
Fury adapted were physical-- not metaphysical, like attacking ones
soul would have to be. That should be taken into consideration when
we start making up new abilities for Fury, imo.

Tbh, I'd be more comfortable with the opinion that Fury can simply
adapt to a point(or perhaps it already starts there) where it is more
powerful than the armor in every sense, and destroys it outright via
lazer canon. To me, that makes more sense then him evolving an
obscure/exotic offensive ability, like soul manip. /shrug
I could agree with that.

"Iron Talon" ... that I know of,
is as close as it comes to Fury attacking a form without any physical substance.

But "Talon" wasn't a literal spirit/soul,
his ability was to turn his body into an invisible/intangible form.
(unlike Sue, who you can still touch when she's invisible)

Then again,
I'm not sure what the hell a "soul" is made of materially speaking.

In Marvel, that would be an "Astral" form. (what Strange and others do)
(and there are powers that can attack this form even from the physical plane)
But that's another story.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I could agree with that.

"Iron Talon" ... that I know of,
is as close as it comes to Fury attacking a form without any physical substance.

But "Talon" wasn't a literal spirit/soul,
his ability was to turn his body into an invisible/intangible form.
(unlike Sue, who you can still touch when she's invisible)

Then again,
I'm not sure what the hell a "soul" is made of materially speaking.

In Marvel, that would be an "Astral" form. (what Strange and others do)
and there are powers that can attack this form even from the physical plane)
I do recall when the FF's "souls" were transported in Mephisto's realm , Franklin's was referenced as an "astral form" , in which there were no psychic inhibitors limiting his powers , which is what enabled him to so easily obliterate Mephisto .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

I do recall when the FF's "souls" were transported in Mephisto's
realm , Franklin's was referenced as an "astral form" , in which there
were no psychic inhibitors limiting his powers , which is what enabled
him to so easily obliterate Mephisto .
Right.

He was unleashed because his blocks pertained to his physical self.

This is why in his "dream-state" he was incredibly powerful as well.


Well, I gotta run friends. Yall continue to enjoy yallselves, I miss you all.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I could agree with that.

"Iron Talon" ... that I know of,
is as close as it comes to Fury attacking a form without any physical substance.

But "Talon" wasn't a literal spirit/soul,
his ability was to turn his body into an invisible/intangible form.
(unlike Sue, who you can still touch when she's invisible)

Then again,
I'm not sure what the hell a "soul" is made of materially speaking.

In Marvel, that would be an "Astral" form. (what Strange and others do)
(and there are powers that can attack this form even from the physical plane)
But that's another story. Right, right. I see what you're saying.

It might be plausible, but given the offensive abilities Fury has evolved on panel, it's just not very probable for it to evolve soul manip. It'd definitely be more 'in character' for Fury to simply adapt to such a level that it can destroy the E/A outright-- a tactic that is MUCH more likely, imo.

But yeah, as long as we aren't arguing for soul manipulation anymore, I'm happy with any outcome.

Fury