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Who wins?

Cyclops and Storm are non-factors for the most part.

It really comes down to, imo, how well people think Logan would do against him.

Aquaman

Originally posted by -Pr-
Cyclops and Storm are non-factors for the most part.

Cyke could just burn all of Arthur's skin tissue off, Fujin fatality style... his muscles, too, if we believe what Black Manta said

Storm is versatile enough to come up with dozens of anti-fish tactics. Heat wave, for example.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cyke could just burn all of Arthur's skin tissue off, Fujin fatality style... his muscles, too, if we believe what Black Manta said

Storm is versatile enough to come up with dozens of anti-fish tactics. Heat wave, for example.

Nice of you to remind me why you're on the soon to be banned list.

I thought Cyclops shot concentrated beams... there more punch then heat if their even that..

Aquaman isn't even weak to heat based attacks, so it wasn't much of a case either..

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I thought Cyclops shot concentrated beams... there more punch then heat if their even that..

They are. Cyclops can "burn" things off, but that's by friction alone, not heat itself.

Also, Stilt talks a lot of waffle.

Yeah like he blasted that Krakoa clone and the half left behind was red hot at the point of impact.

storm has some pretty uber feats--she is certainly a huge factor in this.... AM should take a majority, but team makes him work and def wins a few.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah like he blasted that Krakoa clone and the half left behind was red hot at the point of impact.

He was even able to shred WWH's skin a tiny little bit while going to max power. And WWH was stated to be more durable than his classic self.

Artie dies after a single blast.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He was even able to shred WWH's skin a tiny little bit while going to max power. And WWH was stated to be more durable than his classic self.

Artie dies after a single blast.

WWH also bled from a hit from characters like Shulk and The Thing.

That doesn't suggest either Jen or Ben are 1-3shotting Arthur..

ABC doesn't work all the time.

Originally posted by leonidas
storm has some pretty uber feats--she is certainly a huge factor in this.... AM should take a majority, but team makes him work and def wins a few.

Definitely the biggest factor. If she goes the internal route she'd put Arthur down and Logan could end it there.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
WWH also bled from a hit from characters like Shulk and The Thing.

Characters that would wreck entire armies of Arthurs

Jen used Bruce's own momentum against him when she punched his nose. Thing had it easy, as Hulk just took a combined attack from Johnny's nova and Storm's lightning.

Yeah, this is going to go really well...

Well written the team should take it without too much difficulty. All the X-men have decent psi defenses and Storm and Logan's are among the best. Logan should be able to give AM some issues all on his own, with assistance from Storm and Cyke's ranged attacks he should be able to get the clean shot necessary to put AM down for the count.

50/50. He can one-shot Cyclops or Storm but he'd have to get in close as he has no real range attacks and leaping at them would just get him swept away by Storm. Wolverine is extremely lethal to Aquaman in close range as he doesn't have the durability to offer any real resistance to his claws or the healing factor to take any direct gutting/limb loss.

If this is a pissed off Storm and they work well together (Which they most often do, this are the X-men we're talking about) I'd give the team the win. Arthur's biggest vulnerability here is the lack of range options. He can't really get to Storm or Cyclops from distance while they can bombard him pretty heavily, and I know Aquaman is durable, but a full power blast from Cyclops alone will significantly rock him especially combined with Storm throwing a lot of weather based distractions and attacks. This is lethal because Wolverine can seriously f*ck Arthur up.

Aquaman needs to be smart as f*ck imo, and punt Wolverine into the distance. With that, he can eventually get to Storm/Cyclops and gut them just fine unless Ororo bfrs him. Otherwise he's bound to get worn down by Wolverine sooner or later.

I really don't see even a OML blast being THAT harmful to Aquaman bar knocking him away, tbh.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I really don't see even a OML blast being THAT harmful to Aquaman bar knocking him away, tbh.

Ditto. Im not even sure logan would factor much. He's gonna charge like always and get bfred. Lightning iirc shouldnt effect AM and he's faced stronger currents than the winds storm can produce. Scott unfortunately is a non factor. He should stomp. Not sure y he's constantly downplayed

Wolverine alone is a coin flip, add in the rest and it's already decided.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Ditto. Im not even sure logan would factor much. He's gonna charge like always and get bfred. Lightning iirc shouldnt effect AM and he's faced stronger currents than the winds storm can produce. Scott unfortunately is a non factor. He should stomp. Not sure y he's constantly downplayed

Storm's only real chance, imo, is using that special "electricity in the brain" thing, but there's no guarantee it would work.

Of course, if this was preboot Aquaman, he'd shut Scott and Ororo's brains down easy peasy, and be left with just Logan.

Originally posted by carver9
Wolverine alone is a coin flip, add in the rest and it's already decided.

Based on what exactly? Bfr is on the table. Logan is getting punted

Originally posted by -Pr-
Storm's only real chance, imo, is using that special "electricity in the brain" thing, but there's no guarantee it would work.

Of course, if this was preboot Aquaman, he'd shut Scott and Ororo's brains down easy peasy, and be left with just Logan.

U consider his trident standard equip?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
U consider his trident standard equip?

Depends on which trident he has, tbh. I haven't been reading his last few arcs, but iirc he doesn't have that magic, weather controlling trident anymore. If he does, he'd win easy.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Depends on which trident he has, tbh. I haven't been reading his last few arcs, but iirc he doesn't have that magic, weather controlling trident anymore. If he does, he'd win easy.

True. I havent read much rebirth. I go by average portrayals anyway. So imo id see logan jumping at AM eho2proceeds to grab his wrists and ragdoliing him into either storm or Cyclops

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Based on what exactly? Bfr is on the table. Logan is getting punted

His fights against Hulk, Rulk, Thor, Hercules, Thing, Sasquash, and the list goes on. Logan could one shot kill Arthur. Are these reasons enough?

Originally posted by carver9
His fights against Hulk, Rulk, Thor, Hercules, Thing, Sasquash, and the list goes on. Logan could one shot kill Arthur. Are these reasons enough?

By your own admission in previous threads you stated that wolverine shouldn't do as well as depicted or didnt do as as well as depicted. What's so different now. Especially is he has that trident

Originally posted by Sin I AM
True. I havent read much rebirth. I go by average portrayals anyway. So imo id see logan jumping at AM eho2proceeds to grab his wrists and ragdoliing him into either storm or Cyclops

Yeah. In all fairness, Logan isn't exactly known for being the most cautious of fighters, and Aquaman does have a reach advantage (as he would most likely have at least his normal trident with him, I'm guessing).

Originally posted by Sin I AM
By your own admission in previous threads you stated that wolverine shouldn't do as well as depicted or didnt do as as well as depicted. What's so different now. Especially is he has that trident

It's different because Carver wants him to win.

Like how he reps or disses Diana depending on who she's fighting.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah. In all fairness, Logan isn't exactly known for being the most cautious of fighters, and Aquaman does have a reach advantage (as he would most likely have at least his normal trident with him, I'm guessing).



It's different because Carver wants him to win.

Like how he reps or disses Diana depending on who she's fighting.

The only advantage Logan has is hf. Skills is a wash becausebhe rarely shows ma ability. He's always portrayed as impulsive.

Oh and trust me i know. He fanboys hard. I just dont understand his diana position because she's good but not carver good

Originally posted by Sin I AM
The only advantage Logan has is hf. Skills is a wash becausebhe rarely shows ma ability. He's always portrayed as impulsive.

Oh and trust me i know. He fanboys hard. I just dont understand his diana position because she's good but not carver good

His stabbing will work to an extent, but how much it works is questionable imo. Arthur has shown a really good tolerance to pain, and though he does bleed, his muscles have been shown to be pretty dense. I don't doubt that Logan could cut him, but a stab deep enough to end him? Not so sure.

Well yeah, it depends on who she's fighting. If she's fighting Superman, she's an Amazo beater that's the fastest combatant in the DCU. If she's fighting someone he likes, she's the kind of person that gets her ass kicked.

Arthur is durable, but not an a level that will have any noticeable effect on Adamantium imo. That's why having long distance barrage makes this team a deadly combo. Again Arthur is strong enough to grab Wolverine and toss him a fair distance but Wolverine is incredibly fast and he could lose some fingers or a stab in a lethal area in the process.

Arthur could stab Logan with his trident and just toss him into the ocean, that's what I'd do, but that's easier said than done.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I really don't see even a OML blast being THAT harmful to Aquaman bar knocking him away, tbh.

I don't think it will end him or anything, but it will send him flying and disorient him unless he gets a full and sustained bombardment like when Hulk waded through it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't think it will end him or anything, but it will definitely be felt and he'll be sent flying unless he gets a full and sustained bombardment like when Hulk waded through it.

I can see it sending him flying due to the pure force of it, but I doubt he'll feel any real pain from it.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
The only advantage Logan has is hf. Skills is a wash becausebhe rarely shows ma ability. He's always portrayed as impulsive.

Oh and trust me i know. He fanboys hard. I just dont understand his diana position because she's good but not carver good

Um what?

Wolverine is waaaaaay more skilled than Arthur. Skill is most definitely not a wash if Arthur decides to be tactical and Wolverine decides to do the same.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I can see it sending him flying due to the pure force of it, but I doubt he'll feel any real pain from it.

I don't know what you mean by pain. It'll definitely hurt him but it won't incapacitate him. He's not elite level durable where he can just wade through it with no effect.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
By your own admission in previous threads you stated that wolverine shouldn't do as well as depicted or didnt do as as well as depicted. What's so different now. Especially is he has that trident

When did I say this?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't know what you mean by pain. It'll definitely hurt him but it won't incapacitate him. He's not elite level durable where he can just wade through it with no effect.

I don't think it'll hurt him much if at all, tbh.

Certainly not enough to hinder him much in this fight.

I favor the X-Men in this fight. Cyclops and Storm keep Aquaman distracted long enough for Wolverine to disembowel him.

Or if we're using the 2damnloud/KMC Storm fanboy version of Storm, she solos by dropping the Sun on Aquaman. biscuits

Originally posted by carver9
Wolverine alone is a coin flip, add in the rest and it's already decided.

Coin flip? Logan has a winning record against Namor, who is Artie's superior in every way.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Coin flip? Logan has a winning record against Namor, who is Artie's superior in every way.

Agreed. I just didn't want to sound bias. Wolverine showings against top tiers are better than Aquaman imo.

So is Batman's. Streets always look good against top tiers.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Coin flip? Logan has a winning record against Namor, who is Artie's superior in every way.
Hardly Arthur is faster than both.

Strength at this point could be higher with the scepter feat, and durability is up there via scaling.


Originally posted by carver9
Agreed. I just didn't want to sound bias. Wolverine showings against top tiers are better than Aquaman imo.
He also has a pretty consistent win/loss record against other street level characters h2h... Reason why ABC is wanky. We don't suggest Batman is highter than street or low mid because of his showings against Wonder Woman, because we know by actual personal feats what Batman and Diana are capable of.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Hardly Arthur is faster than both.

Strength at this point could be higher with the scepter feat, and durability is up there via scaling.



He also has a pretty consistent win/loss record against other street level characters h2h... Reason why ABC is wanky. We don't suggest Batman is highter than street or low mid because of his showings against Wonder Woman, because we know by actual personal feats what Batman and Diana are capable of.

Sigh.

I think Aquaman is a match against Wolverine, but adding Storm to the equation makes it pretty tough for Aquaman.

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh.

You're really not in the position to be acting like that towards anyone.

There's a good thread on here where some people argue fights are a better gauge of abilities than feats.

By that logic, Aquaman looks good. Of course, some may argue its PIS....

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Aquaman isn't even weak to heat based attacks, so it wasn't much of a case either..

Aquaman has been in the desert and it hasn't done anything to him. He doesn't have a heat weakness, the real threat is Wolverine. I don't see Wolverine beating him 1 on 1 but with Cyclops and Storm they could get some wins. However I don't think Cyclops and Storm can really hurt him but Storm could use things like wind to to possibly hinder his movement.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Hardly Arthur is faster than both.

Hardly. He's not even faster than Namor, unless you use the crossover that has been specifically banned from this message board.

Team should take it more often than not, if only because they have surer means to put Arthur down, and all of the battlefield control in this match.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hardly. He's not even faster than Namor, unless you use the crossover that has been specifically banned from this message board.

Yeah he his, Namor's best speed feat is dodging a sonic attack?

Aquaman routinely has dodged lightning in publication.

If anything that crossover made his advantage pretty legit, which is speed. Namor has been consistently somewhat stronger than most incarnations of Aquaman. But I'd argue the New52 changed that and took away Namor's one physical advantage.

Gotta ask, how many instances is there of him dodging lightning? I've seen maybe a couple that I remember, but I will admit it's been a while.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace

If anything that crossover made his advantage pretty legit, which is speed. Namor has been consistently somewhat stronger than most incarnations of Aquaman. But I'd argue the New52 changed that and took away Namor's one physical advantage. you do realize that namor has made thanos bleed, been portrayed as a physical peer of hyperion, and used ares as a bat to bludgeon sentry with right? It seems like every time he appears, he gets even stronger.

Aquaman does not have fts on Namor level. Looking at Namor fts, he is top tier.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Gotta ask, how many instances is there of him dodging lightning? I've seen maybe a couple that I remember, but I will admit it's been a while.

3 or 4. 1 being a statement another being Pre-Crisis. 2 I think in main continuity.

Originally posted by deathslash
you do realize that namor has made thanos bleed, been portrayed as a physical peer of hyperion, and used ares as a bat to bludgeon sentry with right? It seems like every time he appears, he gets even stronger.

Aquaman put a hole in Darkseid's chest to where it was leaking Energy out. He honestly was the only one on the league to do that much damage to a more sturdy part of Darkseid's body. Given there are 2 people stronger than Namor on that league. I'd say that's impressive. I could see an argument for Nu52 Hal before his upgrades against Namor. And Hal couldn't do squat to Darkseid.

There's also the fact that he broke Graves Pretas shielding something the rest of the league didn't do as well. And this includes a pissed off Wonder Woman who punched Graves Shielding to no effect.

By Statements in comics and out of comics as well as actual showings Aquaman has been presented to be a peer to Wonder Woman on avg.

Regardless I said he was faster. Which I stand by, and I said the scepter feat comes off better than anything I've seen Namor do. In regards to raw strength and durability.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
3 or 4. 1 being a statement another being Pre-Crisis. 2 I think in main continuity.

I was (badly) working on a respect thread a while back, so I didn't recall correctly. I probably have the scans if you can name the issues though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I was (badly) working on a respect thread a while back, so I didn't recall correctly. I probably have the scans if you can name the issues though.

I'd have to backtrack for the Weather Wizard and Detroit scan.

Offhead one instance is from War of the Gods that Wonder Woman event. Aquaman Dodges lightning that was from Zeus and Jupiter's fire fight. Brave and the Bold 32 "Night Gods" is where he Dodges Demon lightning.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'd have to backtrack for the Weather Wizard and Detroit scan.

Offhead one instance is from War of the Gods that Wonder Woman event. Aquaman Dodges lightning that was from Zeus and Jupiter's fire fight. Brave and the Bold 32 "Night Gods" is where he Dodges Demon lightning.

This one?

https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/33583346_btb37_017.jpg

I don't have War of the Gods, for some reason. Damn list must not have been complete.

Originally posted by -Pr-
This one?

https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/33583346_btb37_017.jpg

I don't have War of the Gods, for some reason. Damn list must not have been complete.
That's the one.



Alot of the stuff I reference is on this thread.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/aquaman/4005-2357/forums/arthur-curry-aka-aquaman-composite-respect-thread-1774986/#121


This is the War of the Gods instance.
http://imgur.com/a/hTsPt

His reaction suggest he wasn't expecting the lightning.

Originally posted by -Pr-
This one?

https://s6d6.turboimg.net/t/33583346_btb37_017.jpg


Also demonstrates how fast he fights underwater.

He went from dodging lightning, to creating a whirlpool, punching a demon and dodging lightning at the same time. Then punching the demon that fired lightning at him all in a page with a few panels.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Also demonstrates how fast he fights underwater.

He went from dodging lightning, to creating a whirlpool, punching a demon and dodging lightning at the same time. Then punching the demon that fired lightning at him all in a page with a few panels.

TBH, I have a natural bias against underwater feats, because as far as I'm concerned, he'd outspeed most people underwater, so the point ends up being moot.

That, and I'm genuinely unsure of how well underwater feats translate to dry land. He's fast, sure, but water is a much different medium to air etc.

Not impressed by those lightning scans. It's not true lightning. This seems far better imo.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/10/101999/3240348-captang29md1.jpg

"True" lightning.

WTF.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
That's the one.



Alot of the stuff I reference is on this thread.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/aquaman/4005-2357/forums/arthur-curry-aka-aquaman-composite-respect-thread-1774986/#121


This is the War of the Gods instance.
http://imgur.com/a/hTsPt

His reaction suggest he wasn't expecting the lightning.

Huh, War of the Gods wasn't on my list for sure. Dammit.

Originally posted by -Pr-
TBH, I have a natural bias against underwater feats, because as far as I'm concerned, he'd outspeed most people underwater, so the point ends up being moot.

That, and I'm genuinely unsure of how well underwater feats translate to dry land. He's fast, sure, but water is a much different medium to air etc.

It would actually be harder to be mobile underwater.

1, you got more pressure on you. That's the reason or one of the reason Aquaman and the Atlanteans are so strong and fast.

2, mobility wise your moving more muscles. As humans we move are legs for movement. Underwater it would require pretty much every muscle.


In regards to Carvers response... Lol at Zeus's lightning not counting as legit lightning speed for some reason. First time I heard that one... I assumed since it's a Wonder Woman reaction feat in so many RT's. It was because it was lightning. But I guess it's not much a feat for Wonder Woman cause Zeus's lightning is "Fake lightning" Even though he's the God of that element..

I could give you the Demon thing... You'd have to explain what fake lightning is to me though.. and regardless the Zeus scan backs the demon one up.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
It would actually be harder to be mobile underwater.

1, you got more pressure on you. That's the reason or one of the reason Aquaman and the Atlanteans are so strong and fast.

2, mobility wise your moving more muscles. As humans we move are legs for movement. Underwater it would require pretty much every muscle.

I agree, but there's still the question of translation for me.

I mean, Wolverine wouldn't compare to Aquaman underwater. Not a chance. But above ground? He's very, very fast. Water slows everything down, air doesn't, at least, not to the same extreme.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I agree, but there's still the question of translation for me.

I mean, Wolverine wouldn't compare to Aquaman underwater. Not a chance. But above ground? He's very, very fast. Water slows everything down, air doesn't, at least, not to the same extreme.

Water is 832 times more dense actually then air. Then pressure changes depending on where your at. It's kind of hard to factor in though given all your muscles are used underwater when there not really needed for movement other than your legs on land.

Regardless we atleast no anything anyone does underwater should be greater on land. Atleast in regards to speed and strength.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Water is 832 times more dense actually then air. Then pressure changes depending on where your at. It's kind of hard to factor in though given all your muscles are used underwater when there not really needed for movement other than your legs on land.

Regardless we atleast no anything anyone does underwater should be greater on land. Atleast in regards to speed and strength.

Oh, I agree. Aquaman should be fast as hell above ground. Back in the year one stuff they showed how he needed time to get used to how strong he was out of water. They really should be doing the same with his speed.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Oh, I agree. Aquaman should be fast as hell above ground. Back in the year one stuff they showed how he needed time to get used to how strong he was out of water. They really should be doing the same with his speed.

His speed seems to be one of those things that gets teased alot.

Same with his "skill".

Those are two things I'd like to see get fleshed out and ships of been fleshed out along time ago.

Telepathy would be a third.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
His speed seems to be one of those things that gets teased alot.

Same with his "skill".

Those are two things I'd like to see get fleshed out and ships of been fleshed out along time ago.

Telepathy would be a third.

He's one of those characters that "should" be able to do things given the nature of his powers, things that are logical extensions of his powers, but either writers haven't thought of it yet, or just aren't bothered showing it.

Skill I agree with. Preboot they showed him doing some training at least, but with all his resources and his time in Atlantis, combat training should be a given. Hell, even sparring with the League would be something you'd think would happen.

Telepathy... The sooner he starts to show more of that, the better.

This is Arthur's fight to lose if he chooses, no more.