Was Jesus Black?

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Turbo-Cajun

Arachnoidfreak
laughing you know the Landover Baptist Church isn't a real church right? It's a parody site.

anyway, I wouldn't say Jesus was black. I'd say he was tan/dark tan. Based soley on geography. You don't see black people come from the middle east today. every one there has a good tan, some darker than others.

MornGlory
Jesus was a JEW- he was dark skinned - not black - but had a great tan- so did his mom and pop

didn't you see The Passion - or go to Sunday School when you were little

Darth Revan
Jesus was probably Middle Eastern... He would have been stoned to death by those hard ass mother****ers if he had been black no expression

MornGlory
^^^ laughing

Turbo-Cajun
Yeah... i went to sunday school, no I didnt go to the Passion because Mel Gibson is insane and that isn't based on anything factual either. I don't want to have to debate the movie here....


And yeah if you cant figure out its satire, yur dum.... i still dont want to have to listen to people here talking like that, we have come close a couple times here.


This is what a lot of people thinks he looks like... brown hair blue eyes?

Turbo-Cajun
On that other link (the term paper) it tells about how some of Jesus's family lived in places that were known black civiliztations... and Mid East human geography has changed a lot in the last 2000 years. Things like that change fast... look at how the typical american has changed in the last 400 years. There was a huge number of Jews of lighter skin that moved into the area (Isreal) after WWII... look at the people that lived there before the Israelis took the land. Palestians look way different than the Israelis... and that switch in population in Israel happened only 60 or so years ago. There is some evidence in that link that says there were blacks that lived in that area... i dunno. I guess I dont think he is really black either, I think he was dark though... dark. Not the brown hair, blues eyes Jesus that we see a lot of. I just thought "Was Jesus Black?" would get more attention than "What do you think Jesus looks like?"... i dont like making threads sounding like that, it makes me sound too religious. I just called it that because I had just read a bunch of stuff on black churchs and got into a site talking about black theology (not the made up one, lol)... it was what I was thinking about, and they are the only group that seriously tries to challenge the eurocentric image of Jesus.

shoot me.

finti
From Discovery Channel : started with an Israeli skull dating back to the 1st century. They then used computer programs, clay, simulated skin and their knowledge about the Jewish people of the time to determine the shape of the face, and color of eyes and skin."

This is their version of Yeshua ben Nazereth

NiceGuynj
Yes Jeses was Jewish period who cares of his skin color.

Mr Zero
That looks more like Johnny Depp in POTC than a Jesus.

finti
It was images like that Zero posted that made the Vikings name jesus
"kviti krist" which means white christ. All shiny illimunated images.
..................just a little info for ya all there big grin cool

Syren
I think this is more likely to be closer to the truth....... dark skinned, coarse haired; that blue-eyed, silky brown-haired, 'Because I'm Worth It' look is utter bullshit. It's just another way of making people believe Jesus was pure and the perfect saviour. Would you be more likely to worship the sweet-looking Jesus or the pic that Finti posted, the 'You Ain't Got Nothin' On Me, Man' weirdo? Come on, humanity is superficial people wink

big gay kirk
If jesus was indeed descended from Solomon's line, then it is indeen possible that he had "black" ancestry... though not negroid black as most seem to think... their is a good body of evidence that the Queen of Sheba, far from being the Yemeni Arab usually though of, was in fact from Ethiopia... the majority of the population there belonging to the "Nilo-saharan" group, like the Touaregs... black, but not negroid...

finti
fact is does it matter what he looked like?

Syren
Nope. But then most of these philosophical threads don't matter, so to speak, nothing will change dramatically as a result of these conversations and discussions but I'm assuming we enjoy having them, right?

ragesRemorse
does it matter?

Alpha Centauri
"fact is does it matter what he looked like?"

If Jesus came back (assuming he existed) and he was discovered to be black, how many of the Jesus worshipping white christians would turn tail and run?

-AC

finti
laughing out loud guess KKK would have some fits

Alpha Centauri
I can just imagine them knocking on the doors of the ancestors of all the black people they oppressed and killed:

"Erm......sorry?"

-AC

finti
no they would have refused to accept that jesus

Nazgulinthedark
your first passage is pretty much just saying that Jesus wasn't a very pretty guy. It aslo says that he was disliked by many people. Well, if you read the Bible, you will come to ifnd, that yes, lots of people disliked Jesus! The Romans thought he was going to take over their empire since he said he was "King of the Jews". Ever read the stories of King Herad in the bible? People that worked in the temple didn't like him because he was trying to tell people different than what they taught. That passage in no way implaies that Jesus is black or white...or anything else.

Second passage..ok, that always confused me there. I had to read that very passage in church one time, and you know what? the theme of that mass was about the arcangels.

"White People don't originally come from the Middle East."

Neither do black people. Black people typicly come from Africa. Jesus was prabably tanish skin, like a Islamic person from Isreal is. Since Jesus lived in Isreal.

NiceGuynj
Yes again Jewish guy from the middle east what else needs to be said.If the color of the skin would be that important it would be a very dark tan but not black.

WindDancer
Straight and to the point. thumb up

Gregory
Despite what the early Christian Church liked people to think, it looks from the context in Isaiah as if this passage refers to Israel.

I don't care what Jesus looks like. I suppose I wouldn't care even if I was a Christian.

wuTa
jesus was arabic..hollywood and company molded his image to have blonde hair with blue eyes so he's more marketable or something like that

Jackie Malfoy
Interesting thought.But does it really matter what color his skin was?I know I sound raciest but I think he was white.After all he is jewish!Anyway I don't really care what color he is.
It does not matter what color he is!JM

<<Solo>>
Wasn't Jesus supposed to look like everyone? Like if someone saw Jesus, Jesus would look like the person that saw him?

Jackie Malfoy
Interesting thought Solo where did you get an idea like that?I am just wondering I never heard that before!You have a creative mind I can say that!JM

wuTa
jewish people arent white...they look white so they are passed off as being white...just like bryant gumbel

solo-i think thats god not jesuse but i could be wrong

Gregory
Actually, this happened well before Hollywood. Christ was described as having blue eyes by Nicephorus Callistus Xanthopoulos, who lived during the 1300's.

Nazgulinthedark
i thought hollywood portrayed Christ with brown hair and blue eyes, not blone hair...but i could be mistaken

Jackie Malfoy
That is true!I have tan skin and I am jewish!Anyway I was told by a friend of mined,That Jesus and god are the same person?Is this true or false?Sorry about geting off topic!JM

Darth Revan
"God" isn't a person. But a lot of Christians seem to be confused on whether they're supposed to be worshipping Jesus or God.

Gregory
According to Christianity, Jesus and God are the same being. I've never really understood it, but you might think of them as different facets of the same stone (and the Holy Ghost/Spirit makes the third facet). I do not believe, however, that you will find this in the Bible (could be wrong).

Darth Revan
Well the way my old church cult-masters used to describe it was that Jesus was god in human form... They were sort of the same, but it's not really accurate to say "Jesus" when you mean "god" or vice versa.

HockeyHorror
does it matter what jesus' color/race was???

HockeyHorror
no expression always ahead of me laughing out loud

Alpha Centauri
Would be rather funny if God came down and he was Chinese with a mohawk. That would throw everyone off the path.

-AC

finti
it aint hollywood, painted images of jesus as a blue eyed blond has been around for centuries if not a millennium. and I see gregory already pointed this out cool

jewish people come in all colors

Alpha Centauri
That's what Hitler wanted for his Aryan race though.

Blonde hair, blue eyes. It's viewed as the purest combo, hence why Jesus isn't black haired with dark skin and brown eyes, to most people.

-AC

finti
all hail scandinavians stick out tongue

shaber
More likely swarthy or asiatic given the area blink

eleveninches
Jesus must have been black. It says so in 'dogma'

Turbo-Cajun
I was gone for a day out at a Minnesota Vikings football game, so I wasnt even here to post in my own thread.... sorry, as a result this may be a longish post.



I never said that it proved his color... it a quote that I came across that gave some idea of what he looked like: kinda ugly...

my first post just contained some of the few quotes describing anything about how he looked. The first quote isnt evidence for either side, but I still thought it should be included... it shows that Jesus wasnt a beautiful person, only that. I was trying to point out that there is very few comments about what Jesus looked like, and none that are really descriptive. Okay, so it doesnt say he's black, but it also asks the question "why do a lot of white people think he is white when it doesn't describe him in the Bible that way?" Thats why I went into geography...



This is a passage generally used by some Black Theologians to say the Bible says Jesus (and God) are black... I agree, doesn't mean much. But there are people out there that interpret that line "hairs of his head like pure wool" to mean that his hair was wooly like black peoples hair is sometimes very wooly or course... I'll say it again, I dont think Jesus was black, like African black... but I thought I would start out the thread with some of the traditional arguments brought against a white jesus.

The term "Ancient of Days" is often related to the idea of God... meaning if he had wooly hair like black people that God is black, according to some Black Theoligians. (not exactly what I believe)

There is also a quote in Revelations that they like to use, saying how the skin of God resembled burnished bronze... bronze skinned?




The paper that I linked to in the first post I made had some evidence showing that the people who were Jesus's family (Mary and Joseph) were from dark skinned ancestory, well this could mean that he did look like the picture Finti posted earlier... still not a white Jesus.

And again, because there are Jews there now with very light skin does not mean that all Jews that lived in Isreal have always been light. Abraham, ancestor of the Hebrews, was from Chaldea; the ancient Chaldeans were Black. There are also people who think that one of the Ten Tribes of Isreal are in Africa.

link

This doesnt prove Jesus=Black, but it does show that Jew = Not Black, is incorrect.



Are you asking should anyone care? no, no one should care. Would people care if they found out that Jesus looked like a black man or maybe like "one of those a-rabs?" Definately... Black people have only been allowed on the same bus as white people for less than 50 years now, before the work of King they weren't acceptable as members of society, let alone objects of worship. The "Stars and Bars" (confederate flag) are still seen all over the South... do you think that they would worship a God who had colored skin?

What does that say about Christianity if some of their members would reject the son of God if he was dark or colored skin?

the traditional measure of "blackness" in the United States has been "one-drop" meaning if he had any black ancestry he would have been considered black. So while he may have been "darkish" or "really tan" he could have had partial black ancestry.



The way I was told about God was that there is a holy trinity. God, the father was the creator... he rules up in heaven. Jesus, the son of God came down to save the sins of the world, died crucified and was buried and rose again... now back in heaven. The third part of the Holy Trinity is the Holy Spirit... through the Holy Spirit God does his work in the world, it was the holy spirit which caused the disciples to speak in tounges, cause miracles, etc...

The three parts are all one god, but these parts of God work differently... if that makes sense

Turbo-Cajun
I guess I dont remember that exact quote from the movie... its been a while since I saw it last, and thats not why I made this thread.

But did you know that he received 400,000 pieces of hate mail and death threats because of that movie? They got Disney to sell the rights off to someone else because of that all... That was a funny movie though, I should go rent it tonight.

Darth Sauron
Does it make any difference what colour he was?

Turbo-Cajun
If you are an open minded, free thinking, individual who accept people different than you... then the answer should be no.


Are all Christians comfortable with the idea of worshiping a Black Jesus or a Mid-Eastern Jesus? no, many would have problems with that.

And if it doesnt matter what color he is, why is he generally portrayed in Church stained glass as being white then? Why couldnt he be portrayed as being darker?

BackFire
I think Jesus was Japanese.

And I'm basing that on absolutely nothing.

Vampy
what a stupid question... OF COURSE Jesus was black!

wha the hell were you thinking? erm

shaber
Turbo-Cajun&gt;&gt; the mind prefers simple categories and most countries were homogenous until relatively recently. The African churches prefered to protray Mary as a full blooded african woman.

Nazgulinthedark
that passage could also meant that Jesus had white hair...white as wool maybe.

now the rest of your post, i cant say anything against, but i just like to point out that in many, almost all, of the southern states, its illegal to parade the confederate flag publicly. there is hardly anything allowed down there having anything to do, even vaguely, with the civil war. example, the alabama license plates don't have "heart of dixie" on them anymore because the black people said it offened them because "heart of dixie" was meant as the "middle of the conferacy", geographicly, which alabama was. no the plates say "stars fell on alabama"...who knows what thats s'possed to mean..

TheProgramSmith
Would his race really effect anything?

I would hope not.

Nazgulinthedark
his race shouldn't effect anything, but im afraid there are still very closed minded racist people out ther erm

wuTa
i did see hollywood and company..company as people/artists besides hollywood

its true that jewish people come in all colors...i dont know if anyone noticed this but i wasnt being completely serious with that post, ala the bryant gumbel remark

Alpha Centauri
"Would his race really effect anything?

I would hope not."

The sad truth is, humans are so blindly arrogant that if Jesus himself, the man they claim to worship, turned up and turned out to be of a different skin tone than white, they would condemn him.

-AC

Cipher
A magazine (Time?) did an article like this a while back. Jesus would have looked like people in the Middle East do now, more or less. What else would anyone expect? Maybe many have been duped by the European paintings from the middle ages, I don't know.

Turbo-Cajun
I guess a more correct statement by me would have been:



I believe that you still have the right to fly the confederate flag in the south... people still have them where I live, and I live in the north

I see them all the time of pick up trucks and on bandanas and stuff... I believe we still have freedom of speech and freedom of expression. It may no longer be legal to have those things on government owned property, but on private property is another thing.

There was a Nazi flag up in the window of a home near the Mall of America, and it was protected by freedom of speech... if thats legal, I'm sure the flag of the Confederacy is still legal.

eleveninches
It was the black 13th apostle (chris rock) who, when asked if he knew jesus, replied:

"knew him. Nigga owed me 12 dollers".
wink

mouth
i see him as black.. it dosn't make sense to me for Him being a white male with long soft straight blonde hair, paler skin and blue eyes as most of society potrays him as.. no, i see him as black, with long natty dreads and brown eyes.. it just makes sense to me.. as to Him being white man .. concidering the time he was around..

D-Double
......laughing

....well, if Chris Rock said it....I'm sold.... wink

manjaro
i dont believe jesus was black, but he damn sure wasnt white either.
back in those days white folks came from Greece and Rome. Black ppl
came from Africa, and other colored ppl came from the Arab World.

the fact that Jesus was neither Greek nor Roman we know he wasnt white, and the fact that he's not from Africa we can justifiably reason that he wasnt black. however, the fact that he wasnt of Greek or Roman decent we know that whatever he was, he must have been a part of whats left. Common denominator being a colored person.therefore, 1+1=thats good enuff for me

Storm
British scientists, assisted by Israeli archeologists, have recreated what they believe is the most accurate image of Jesus.

http://www.terra.com.br/noticias/galeria/popular_melhores/010327_real_jesus.jpg

finti
yeah we already posted that piccie

Cipher
He would've looked like a person from the Middle East, what a shock......

Julie
Judging from Jesus' lineage I'd say he's er jewish skin tone

Imperial_Samura
Quite understandable I think, as his parents (parent) were of Jewish descent.

Cipher
Not just Jewish descent, but actual Middle Eastern Jews. He wouldn't have looked Caucasian......

ushomefree
Christians of all colors and walks of life, know that Jesus was a Jew. At least, Christians the have eyes and read the Bible. Knowing so, we can safely assume that Jesus was indeed dark in complexion. What a trivial thing to ponder. Who cares what color His skin was?

DirectorFitz
There are two possibilities:

#1: Tracing from his Jewish descent, Jesus is most likely a tan-skinned person.

#2: He was born of a virgin and by God. So, there is Mary's genetics and God throwing in some genetics....so he could've been tan-skinned or just between tan and white.

Storm
laughing

Cinemaddiction
It's trivial, but it's also interesting to try and figure out.

Philosophicus
Why don't we just say he was pink? He was a schezophrenic after all.

Adam_PoE
If man is made in the image of God or if Jesus is God made flesh, then the color of his skin would matter to some people.

DirectorFitz
I don't really think it would matter whether or not he was white or any other color....but....I can settle on the middle-eastern skin color for Jesus

finti
is this an ultimate of what you can accept

nubitankh
Of course Jesus was a black man! He was Jewish. Remember, the lembah tribe and other Jewish tribes were pushed back into the interior. The current inhabitants of Israel were able to claim Israel as a state thanks to the help of the united nations about 60 years ago so that they could flee their conditions in Eastern Europe. Therefore, the color of Jesus is important because he wouldn't look like the people there today & Jesus had or should I say has a blood line that can be traced to black people not only in America, but in the caribbean, and other parts of Africa, Europe and all over the world. Unfortunately, a lot of nubians do not realize this. The blood line does mean something if it didn't there wouldn't be a war against the Palestinian and Israeli today. I can go on and on but thanks to the discovery channel allowing scientists to come forth with the truth through DNA testing. Remember Genesis (Genes of Isis) & Abraham who civilized the caucus asian out of the caves!

DCLXVI
Perhaps not "Black" as in the colour of skin found in, say, Jamaica or South Africa, but, as others have undoubtedly stated, living in such a harsh climate all his life, (what with the Middle-East and deserts and such), he would undoubtedly have been darker in complexion, probably like the skin-colour of a modern Israeli or Middle-Eastern person.....

debbiejo
It wouldn't bother me if he was black..

Who cares what color he was though he probably was dark skinned middle eastern man.....Moses wife was black...

DCLXVI
*Shocked*
stick out tongue

King Burger
"Black Jesus" my big fat a**!

Five points:

1-Jesus was from Palestine (Israel), so he looked like a
modern day Palestinian or any other Levantine/Syrian
Arab. And last time I checked, these people weren't black,
nor even that dark-skinned. In fact, Levantine/Syrian
arabs are often the lightest-skinned of the various arab
populations.

So you want to know what Jesus looked like, look at the
recent demonstrations in Beirut, that would give you an
idea.

And for anyone who is going to say that people changed in
the past 2000 years. Bulls***! People don't evolve over
just 2000 years, and considering that humans have been
living in that area for many tens of thousands of years,
they have already evolved physically for the environment
long before Jesus was born. There have been to change
in their physical looks since then.

Nor has there been any outside genetic influence, as many
people would love to people ("They're light-skinned because
of the Greeks/Romans/Crusaders/French/British"wink. First
off, there was no real Greek or ROman colonization of
the region, and even if there was, if wouldn't have made
any difference since Greeks and Romans look similar to
Levantines anyway, including the same olive-skin color.

There was hardly any mixing with the barbarian Crusaders,
who were small in numbers, and stayed away from the
locals whom they didn't trust or like, and vice-versa.

Same with the modern British and French.



2-That Jesus "reconstruction" is nonesense. It was based
on a skull found in Palestine from that era. It wasn't meant
to be Jesus. Saying so would be like if someone found and
reconstructed a skull from eighth century France, and claimed
that it was Charlemagne.

Besides, Israelis were involved, and as everyone knows,
Israelis have an intense hatred towards Jesus and Christians,
so they would love to make him look as ugly and unappealing
to Christians as possible.

In fact, that skull doesn't even look like a common Mid-Easterner.



3-About being "white". It depends on your definition of "white".
If you define white as many americans do, namely as a
synonym for "european", then ofcousre Jesus wasn't white.
If "white" means caucasian, then jesus was white. And if "white"
means light-skinned caucasian, then it all depends on how
you define "light-" and "dark-" skinned?



4-About the whole "blonde", "blue-eyed" thing. It is highly
doubtful that Jesus has such features, but it is possible!
Blonde hair and blue eyes are not monopolies of northern
Europe, they are found in other places, including among the
Berber and Egyptian peoples, just not in the large proportions
or lightness (in regards to the brightness of the yellowness of
the hair) as in northern Europe.

Even in Pharoanic Egypt, there were frequent references to
"Lybians" with golden hair. Even the Greeks in Cyrenaica
made the same observations.

As with the Levant, this has absolutely nothing to do with
any Europeam genetic influence. Unless ofcourse one is a
die-hard Nazi who believes in an ancient blonde Aryan race
that spread out over the world thousands of years ago, building
civilizations, and leaving a genetic trace everywhere they went.

Same with "red" hair. Plenty of people, form the Pharoah Ramses
the Great, to Muhammed, had red hair. It too isn't an northern
European (or Irish) monopoly.



5-

I am so damned sick of this accursed "afro-centrism" bulls***!
All this silliness about ancient Jews/Egyptians/Carthaginians/who
knows who else?, being black. I'm sick of it!

This is an almost purely american-black phenomenon. It is hardly
found in Africa itself. Even blacks (mostly Sudanese) living in
places like Israel or Egypt don't believe such nonsense!

As someone who has Mid-East background, I am sick and tired
of having my people's history and legacy stolen from me by
anyone.

"Genesis=Genes of Isis"? What idiocy!? reminds me of a line I
saw once from another of those afro-centirst morons, who claimes
that the ancient jews were blabk, becuase "semites" comes from
the latin "semi", meaning "half", thus the ancient jews were half
black!



One last point. Again, as someone who has background form that
part of the world, I would much rather Jesus be pprtrayed by a nordic
European, than by a black man, simple because a nordic European
would still be infintely closer physically/genetically, ethnically
to the real Jesus, than any black person.

It's like maming a movie about the Vietnamese leader Ho Chi Minh.
Who would be a better fit, a japanese actor, or Tom Cruise? Sure
the japanese are slightly lighter-skinned, and have slightly
differing facial structures, but they are still much, much, much
closer racially to the Vietnamese than Tom Cruise ever will.

finti
it is so highly doubtful that this Jesus dude was a blue eyed blond, cause if he were it would have been such a distinctive and rare feature in that area that those who wrote about him would have added this. The fact that there are no description about Jesus looks indicates very strongly that his looks were pretty common one for the Palestinian/Judea area. Even the scriptures indicate the latter, according to the gospels Judas Iscariot had to "point out" jesus to the soldiers casue they couldnt tell him appart from his disciples.


this is a load of crap, let me ask you how many Israelies do you know?

King Burger
"This Jesus dude"? "Jesus dude"?

What, you never heard of Jesus? Though he was some
surfer buddy of mine?



And about Israel, boy you got testy? What do you care?
you're not an Israeli (I guess), and you're not a Christian.
I guess you are one of those commited Zionists? Or maybe
you are just so angry of those "damned muslims" "flooding"
Scandanavia, that you like Israel for killing a whole bunch
of them?

Either way, a nation which until recently (or maybe still
going on?) refused to use the "+" symbol in their math
books (instead using an inverted "T"wink, because it looked
like a Christian cross, and therefore may brainwash
children into being Christians, isn't a very "Christianity
loving" country, in my opinion. Even the Saudi Arabian
government doesn't go that far.

Also, maybe you should check out pictures of the Israeli
Supreme Court buidling, with its giant cross-shaped
walk-way, for people to walk and trample the cross with
their shoes on.

Oh, and I suppose the exodus of Palestinian christians
from Palestine, so that today there are more christian
Palestinians living in Santiago, Chile, than in all of the
Holy Land, was just an "accident"? Or maybe (as the
israelis like to claim), it was all the fault of those damned
muslims (you know, the same ones who are also
"flooding" glorious Aryan Scandaniavia)?

finti
dont dodge the question.... how many Israelies do you know?

and yes this jesus dude, surfer buddy or not

King Burger
I am extremely proud to say that in all my life, I've met
only two Israelis, one in high school, and one in college,
and they were both even bigger a*****s than you, believe
it or not!


And his name is "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ".

Maybe "jesus dude" is how he's called in Godless Europe,
but not here in America, or anywhere else in the world,
capisci?

finti
, you call the man whatever you want and I refere to him how I see it fit

Yeah long live ignorance

finti
just to ask a question King Burger, is it Israel as a nation and its inhabitants or is it jewish people you really have a disliking off

LordFear
Dudes let's make one thing clear!!!
There is a high probability that Jesus was of dark skin man.
That blue eyed blond hair garbage is just that, garbage.
If Jesus was to return right now and prove that he is not White, these whiteys wouldn't know what the hell to do with themselves. They would probably do what they do best under duress and hard times, commit suicide. Let's face it, all these years Nazis and KKK's have been trying to "cleanse" their race is because they are weak.
You tell me if White folks were slaves if they could really endure it?
No ****ing way!!!!

finti
do you refere to the Nazis and KKK or the enire white rase here?

they would endure it just as well as any other race

LordFear
i DOUBT IT because I THINK THAT THEY fear suffering, misery and just cannot handle such hardships. Thus the reason why they place such an importance on material things and over generations that mentality has seeped deeply into a majority of Black's psychy.

finti
and other races dont?

the world has become a material place

debbiejo
Besides slaves come in all colors through out history. It's only been around 150's of history where slavery has been frowned upon. There has even been black slaves of black owners, and by the way, that is still true today! Children sold into slavery today, and many are christitian children stolen by muslims.

sky shadow
you should have never sayed that

sky shadow
thats bad

sky shadow
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debbiejo
Don't misunderstand me, I don't agree with any kind of slavery. I was responding to Lordfear. Many people have survived being a slave..You have to. You can't dwell on the past, or you'll never get past it. It would be a shame if 500 years went by and some where still talking about how bad it was that their people were slaves, and then blaming other races for it..

BTW...I guess this is off topic.

DCLXVI
Too much fighting in this thread....

King Burger
Originally posted by finti
just to ask a question King Burger, is it Israel as a nation and its
inhabitants or is it jewish people you really have a disliking off

Israel.

Many of the people of Israel live in a fantasy world in
which their country is some srt of fullfillment of a
Biblical prophesy. They see themselves as the actual
descendants of the ancient Israelites, and therefore
the "Chosen People", a sort of master race that will
lead the world, and which has the right to do as they
wish to whomever they wish.

Maybe some jews in other countries think the same way,
but that is a very small group.

finti
fair enough

LandoSpeeder2
The question is not was Jesus black, it is weather Mary and/or her husband were black.

finti
well since you believe all thats in the bible you should have known that according to it, Marys husband had nothing to do with jesus conception so you got a rule him out.
But here the question indeed was if Jesus was black or not. The real question should have been does it matter what color of skin he had?

LandoSpeeder2
edit.

LandoSpeeder2
True, and true.

Julie
I still maintain he was prob the skin tone of most jewish people

Darth Odious
Originally posted by Turbo-Cajun
On that other link (the term paper) it tells about how some of Jesus's family lived in places that were known black civiliztations... and Mid East human geography has changed a lot in the last 2000 years. Things like that change fast... look at how the typical american has changed in the last 400 years. There was a huge number of Jews of lighter skin that moved into the area (Isreal) after WWII... look at the people that lived there before the Israelis took the land. Palestians look way different than the Israelis... and that switch in population in Israel happened only 60 or so years ago. There is some evidence in that link that says there were blacks that lived in that area... i dunno. I guess I dont think he is really black either, I think he was dark though... dark. Not the brown hair, blues eyes Jesus that we see a lot of. I just thought "Was Jesus Black?" would get more attention than "What do you think Jesus looks like?"... i dont like making threads sounding like that, it makes me sound too religious. I just called it that because I had just read a bunch of stuff on black churchs and got into a site talking about black theology (not the made up one, lol)... it was what I was thinking about, and they are the only group that seriously tries to challenge the eurocentric image of Jesus.

shoot me. I think no matter what your intention is here people are going to take this idea the wrong way. I personally don't care, he could have been green, but I guarantee this room is going to give alot of Christian rooms a run for their money. It'll be nothing but war. There are some things people won't talk about, regardless on how you word it.

moviejunkie23
what does his skin color have anything to do with the message or what he said? Sounds like allot of smokescreen.
And of course you have a white jesus represented by white people, you also have a black jesus who is represented by blacks and some chinese paint jesus to be chinses. Its peoples way of relating more to the image. Theres no harm in this and it really doesn't change a thing. Regardless of what his skin tone was I think its healthy people honor him in any skin color form they choose to.

ShotgunWes
I actually took a course on this in college. It's one of the reasens I'm not a religious person. The fact is most races today were originally all on one continent Pangea. Africa was at the center of the continents with all other continents attached as coastlines. So it would make sense to assume that most people would stay close to the shoreline and not venture too far inland. That's why when the continents broke up most people ended up being in what today we call Asia, North America, and South America. All theoldest civilzations were on these continenets ex. Aztecs, Chinese Dynastys, Native Americans, Incas, etc.

Since Asia Minor (Middleast) is directly in between Europe, Asia, and Africa, it makes iy debatable by people who don't know better. Jesus was not black, Jesus was not white, Jesus was not Asian (technically he was). Asia Minor was a perfect place to have Jesus. The races in that area are so bemuddled that Jesus wasn't a race at all. At least not by todays standards.
All the black people who say that Jesus was black are being ignorant and reverse racist.
All the people who think Jesus was white are doing the same but don't know they are because they are more ignorant than the ignornat black people.

If I had to definitively classufy Jesus I would classify him as being Asian. He is of course from Asia Minor which is a part of Asia. Blacks and whites are just being racist not accepting that Jesus was not from either race. Blacks and whites are so caught up on one being superior to the other that they don't want to face facts. It's stupid really they call themselves christians and what noot, but that hate each other so much they delude themselves into believing their god is their own color just to best the other.

Before I get flamed I think I should add what race//nationality I am: French Laotion Italian Cherokee & a little Irish

moviejunkie23
Originally posted by ShotgunWes
I actually took a course on this in college. It's one of the reasens I'm not a religious person. The fact is most races today were originally all on one continent Pangea. Africa was at the center of the continents with all other continents attached as coastlines. So it would make sense to assume that most people would stay close to the shoreline and not venture too far inland. That's why when the continents broke up most people ended up being in what today we call Asia, North America, and South America. All theoldest civilzations were on these continenets ex. Aztecs, Chinese Dynastys, Native Americans, Incas, etc.

Since Asia Minor (Middleast) is directly in between Europe, Asia, and Africa, it makes iy debatable by people who don't know better. Jesus was not black, Jesus was not white, Jesus was not Asian (technically he was). Asia Minor was a perfect place to have Jesus. The races in that area are so bemuddled that Jesus wasn't a race at all. At least not by todays standards.
All the black people who say that Jesus was black are being ignorant and reverse racist.
All the people who think Jesus was white are doing the same but don't know they are because they are more ignorant than the ignornat black people.

If I had to definitively classufy Jesus I would classify him as being Asian. He is of course from Asia Minor which is a part of Asia. Blacks and whites are just being racist not accepting that Jesus was not from either race. Blacks and whites are so caught up on one being superior to the other that they don't want to face facts. It's stupid really they call themselves christians and what noot, but that hate each other so much they delude themselves into believing their god is their own color just to best the other.

Before I get flamed I think I should add what race//nationality I am: French Laotion Italian Cherokee & a little Irish

yea people that just pay attention t his race are just missing the point and i think most everyone, including most christians, know this. I got the impression the person was just starting this post to try to point out that white christians are idiots for having a straight hared blue eyed jesus painting in their house. Who cares, its how you tear his teachings is what matters, not what color you depict him as.

and as a side note, we may be close to the same hybrid man! I am part french, part indian (don't know the tribe its from florida) part irish and part english. Your about the closest I have heard for my specific mix of races hehe

moviejunkie23
treat not tear sorry hehe
(i need to stop typing so fast)

debbiejo
I'm Italian, Cherokee, and a little German..and think it is quite possible that Jesus could of been some kind of Buddha type person.

ShotgunWes
Moviejunkie23, do you possess superhuman strength as I do? Happy Dance

moviejunkie23
uuuhhhhh wow and debb has indian germen italian! thats simular as well. we should start a club!!!

finti
little german like a 3,4""german or?

debbiejo
Well....I'm 1/2 Italian. My dads side is from the Old Country..Southern Italy..bottom of the boot..My mother is 1/4 Cherokee, her grandmother was full cherokee..She's related the story to me about the "Trail of Tears." but I think she's more German. Her maiden name is Couch. Supposedly not the best people in the early 1800's.. Kinda trouble makers.

And you finti??

finti
100% true blooded Norseman, can trace my bloodline on my mothers side back 1100 years

debbiejo
WOW...You truly are a Viking...With my luck we probably are related to a pope.. messed

finti
yeah a destiny worse than ...........eek!

Vsan18
Honestly, what blonde- haired, blue eyed man is equipped for the harsh sun of Jerusalem ? Even a "dak-skinned" caucasian could not live in the harsh climate of what is present day Iraq, Egypt and so on. People of color do not "peel" when exposed to the sun for lengths of time, as they were in those days. (For the record, we don't get skin cancer from it either.) Do you know why? Because we (people of color) are made for those conditions. We were the Kings and Queens of Ancient Egypt. Our hair is thick as too protect us from the harsh sun of those areas. Even our nostrils (and I'm talking about before the races were so mixed) were larger, allowing us to breathe in the humid air. I'm not saying that Jesus was what ya'll consider black (considering that "black" people come in numerous shades) but he definitely wasnt the California surfer that America wants him to be.

debbiejo
Yes, there is more melanin in dark skin that makes it darker.

Jedi_KnightAlly
I'm scottish traced back to goodness knows when, got a famous ancestor and all lol.

I personally think jesus was probably, blue, with red stripes, and a mohikan(spelling is wrong).

debbiejo
Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
I'm scottish traced back to goodness knows when, got a famous ancestor and all lol.

I personally think jesus was probably, blue, with red stripes, and a mohikan(spelling is wrong).

And he ate hash browns, eggs, and NO sausage, cause he was a Jew.

What I think he really ate, was only live things...It doesn't say he ate fish, though he might have, but said he multiplied it for the people. He could of had once a year pass over lamb...

Jedi_KnightAlly
Yeah he had some mushrooms to make up for the lack of sausages.

Chaos Reborn
HA..AHAHAHAHAH....AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
DOES IT MATTER? HE COULD HAVE BEEN PURPLE, HE HAD A MESSAGE, THAT MESSAGE THAT ALL THESE RELIGIONS AND SHIT WAS CRAP, THAT THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO HEAVEN WAS THROUGH HEART AND SPIRIT.

Enoguh with the yelling, he could have been any color what-so-ever, jews at that time were mainly white with dark tans, but who said both his parents were jewish, man wrote the bible wich means he could have chanegd it. And does anyone here realize the irony of religion, well better yet, christianity, Jesus came here to tell us that god wanted us to live honeslty with compassion and love etc. and what did his diciples do&gt; go and make a ****ing religion...ha, we humans are so damn pathetic its funny.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Chaos Reborn
HA..AHAHAHAHAH....AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
DOES IT MATTER? HE COULD HAVE BEEN PURPLE, HE HAD A MESSAGE, THAT MESSAGE THAT ALL THESE RELIGIONS AND SHIT WAS CRAP, THAT THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO HEAVEN WAS THROUGH HEART AND SPIRIT.

Enoguh with the yelling, he could have been any color what-so-ever, jews at that time were mainly white with dark tans, but who said both his parents were jewish, man wrote the bible wich means he could have chanegd it. And does anyone here realize the irony of religion, well better yet, christianity, Jesus came here to tell us that god wanted us to live honeslty with compassion and love etc. and what did his disciples do&gt; go and make a ****ing religion...ha, we humans are so damn pathetic its funny.

His disciples didn't do it...If Matt, Mark, Luke, and John...were really his disciples...There were over 100 different texts for writers that were not considered by the Roman Church...They picked what they wanted to suit them for their own purposes...It's sad...Jesus really had a Great message, and it got twisted around like a pretzel, and most don't even know it...They follow along like sheep..saying A men....the Egyptians closing to their prayers..

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by debbiejo
Matt

LOL. That reminds me of my friend who calls Robert DeNiero 'Bobby', like he knows him.

finti
if they were his disciples they 4 gospels would have said the exact same thing

WillKempsgirl
to some yes and to some no

Capt_Fantastic
Jesus was not black. He was middle eastern. Just like people who seem to think that Egyptians were black...they simply were not. Black Africans didn't reach any further than northern Nubia.

finti
if they were first hand witnesses they wouldnt have differ as the gospel does

long pig
I personally believe he was more likely the colour of someone like Usama bin Laden, but a lot of my friends give very good arguments that he was in fact, black....or at least very dark.

I wan't some sort of proof, anything really. I'd be nice if he were.

http://users.erols.com/oddities-inc/jc4.jpg

Bardock42
I really don't know...but he was most probably not of the colour he is portrayed in nowadays....

long pig
What the ****....I googled this subject and this is what came up.

What the ****? This can't be real.

Sir Mist
laughing out loud Stupid ignorant people.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by long pig
What the ****....I googled this subject and this is what came up.

What the ****? This can't be real. Wow. Seriously What the f**k?? If it is a real transcript it's bizarre to say the least.

Yeshua ben-Yosef was in all likelihood a man of complexion similar to those who live in the modern Middle East/Northern Africa.

whobdamandog
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wow. Seriously What the f**k?? If it is a real transcript it's bizarre to say the least.

Yeshua ben-Yosef was in all likelihood a man of complexion similar to those who live in the modern Middle East/Northern Africa.

It's intersting that you point that out, however, it is somewhat innaccurate. Many of the earlier depictions of "Christ" and the virgin Mary were indeed reminiscent of "African cultures" as oppossed to the current "Euro/Caucasoid" standard that we see depicted in the Church today.

Most of the depictions of Christ that we see today were actually done during 13th/14th Century I believe during the "Moors" rule over parts of Europe. If you compare many of the paintings of the "Moors" to the current pictures of Christ..you will see some striking similarities.

It is believed by many..that the earlier jews actually descended from Ethiopia/Egypt..a land inahabited by a mix of African/Arabic peoples. Many of which were very dark skinned..wooly haired..etc..and would be considered "Black" by today's standards.

In addition to this..the Bible also mentions that the Jewish Apostle...Paul..was thought to be an "Ethiopian" when he confronted a group of Pharisees. Ethiopia is an ancient land..that has not changed much in the 1000's of years that it has been inhabited. Paul himself was a Pharisee at one point who lived amongst the jews. That being stated..Jesus probably looked much like Paul..feature wise..Probably reminiscent of the Ethiopians. I doubt by today's standards he would be classified as "Arab" or "white" by any means. Does it really matter though..No? Personally I believe that race is just an oblivious term, that further seperates us as a people, however, I do believe that the distortion of truth is a very wrong thing to do, particularly when it has to do with the physical depiction of the "Son of God."

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Darth Revan
Jesus was probably Middle Eastern... He would have been stoned to death by those hard ass mother****ers if he had been black no expression

ITs true though messed

But yeah, he was a Jew and he had a dark skin, but he was not african-black.

amity75
In all the images of Jesus that I was shown as a kid he was white with blonde hair. Not unlike the singer from nickelback. If he DID look like that then surely his parentage would have been questioned. Oh wait, it was...

debbiejo
No he was metal colored..., or was that Zeus....

-hh-
Originally posted by finti
laughing out loud guess KKK would have some fits

laughing

jgiant
Jesus was king of the Jews, not king of the Afro Americans...

debbiejo
He can what ever color you want!!!!!!!!

xmarksthespot
He could be psychedelic...
http://tastytronic.net/main/LSD-hotdog.jpg

debbiejo
I've seen god!!!!! hahahahaha eek! laughing out loud

whobdamandog
Originally posted by debbiejo
I've seen god!!!!! hahahahaha eek! laughing out loud

Just wanted to leave you with some pictures of the Early depictions of Mary and Jesus.


Taken from http://www.theworkofgod.org/Aparitns/Others2.htm

The "Black" Madonna

The Black Madonna is a painting of the Madonna and Christ Child which legend states was painted by St. Luke the Evangelist. St. Luke is believed to have used a tabletop from a table built by the carpenter Jesus. It was while Luke was painting Mary that she told him about the events in the life of Jesus that he eventually incorporated in his gospel. The painting shows up again in 326 AD when St. Helen located it in Jerusalem while on a pilgrimage there. She gave the painting to her son, Constantine, who had a shrine built in Constantinople to house it.

http://www.franciscancaring.org/bmadonna.gif


http://www.theworkofgod.org/Images/Jasnagr.jpg


http://shell.amigo.net/~ma3/L-C%20Geneste%20CU.gif

whobdamandog
Pictures of the Merovegian Kings(Holy Roman Empire)..which where later used as the basis of later works representing Christ. Probably to solidify their power base..I believe they at one time stated that they were direct descendents of Christ..which was obvious untruth.


http://gilles.maillet.free.fr/histoire/personnages/france/Childeric%20III.jpg

Clovis Merovegian King of France...

http://pascale.olivaux.free.fr/Histoire/Photos/Clovis.jpg



Notice any similarities?

Again..Christ's appearance doesn't truly matter, however, in my opinion distortion of the truth definately does.

CosmicSurfer
Two reasons why arguing Jesus's color/ethnicity is utterly, completely, and totally stupid:

1.)His skin color doesn't matter, it's the message he brought forth.

2.) Given the geographical area in where he was born, he was most definately not white or black. Both these answers are idiotic and ignorant. It's that ridiculously obvious. Go talk to any unbiased biblical scholar/historian and an anthropologist, and they will tell you without hesitation that Jesus is a dark olive skinned middle eastern semetic man just like the rest of his people -- the original hebrews/jews.

Due to contrary belief, Africa is not a homogenous continent. In other words, blacks aren't the only indigenous people in Africa. As a matter of fact blacks only live in Sub Sahara Africa and further down. While the berbers, Arabs, and Mixed arab/berbers live in North Africa.

Most black christians argue that Jesus is black because he was raised in Egypt and didn't stick out from the crowd. Nothing can be further from the truth, the Egyptians are not black africans. In fact, they are very similarly related to the semites. If you look at the ancient pictures and hieroglyphics, the egyptians are pictured with light reddish brown skin, while some blacks were portrayed as pitch dark black skinned. Most of them were slaves in Egypt. They were not from Egypt at all.

*Blacks don't live in the middle east or anywhere in North Africa*

So that should end this debate once and for all.

whobdamandog
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Two reasons why arguing Jesus's color/ethnicity is utterly, completely, and totally stupid:

1.)His skin color doesn't matter, it's the message he brought forth.


True..but it's interesting how most modern day depictions of Christ, are reminiscent of the Blonde/Blue Aryan standard. This makes the statement above hypocritical, seeing how if it doesn't really matter..why do so many continue to pictorally mis-represent Christ?

Answer..because many couldn't except nor would they worship a "God" with obvious "African" roots and heritage.



Well it depends on what definition you go by when using the terms "white" and "black." In the United States for example, there's the "One drop" Rule. According to that definition, Christ would undoubtly be black. Putting all that semantical nonsense a side however, It's quite obvious that most individuals residing in the Ancient regions of Ethiopia/Egypt/and Northern Africa during that particular period were people of "Color", due to the area's geographic location. Most unbiased biblical scolars/historians will agree with this. Would that make them "black"? Hard to say really..but it still points out to the fact they were obviously descended from some sort of "non-white" ancesters. Common sense would tell anyone this.




True..Africa was is not a homogeneous nation, much like Europe isn't a homogenous nation, or Asia isn't a homogeneous. That still doesn't take away from the fact that much of Africa..contains people who are of "Nubian" descent. Egyptians/Ethiopians/and Yratrians(sp?) are an obvious examples of this. To argue that these people have no "black" blood within them is extremely foolish, and contradicts what has been demonstrated through much of history.



Completely false statement. And has nothing to validate it other than the pride and ignorance.

whobdamandog
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer

*Blacks don't live in the middle east or anywhere in North Africa*

So that should end this debate once and for all.

Here's a picture of a Jew from Ethiopia..

http://www.jafi.org.il/arts/1999/dec/1.jpg

Would you consider her black/arab/or white?


Here's Ethiopia's location...



http://img.webring.com/r/e/ethioring/logo


Looks like it's part of "Northern Africa...



Here's a picture of a typical Egyptian...

http://www.sln.org.uk/geography/images/Egypt/Egyptian%20man%2021.jpg

Does he look white? Does he have "black" blood in him...

Here are some pictures of Libyan children......Libya is in Northern "Africa"

http://www.cp-pc.ca/english/libya/images/lib41.jpg

http://www.cp-pc.ca/english/libya/images/lib08.jpg

Notice I've included Libyans who are of lighter colors as well..but still contain obvious "black" blood within them...

So anyway..that should end this debate once and for all..laughinglaughing

whobdamandog
Just wanted to add a couple of nails to the coffin..

Pictures of some men from the Sudan...hint* Sudan is in North Africa..

http://www.nanou.org/galleries/red%20sea%20pics/images/port%20sudan%20people.jpg

Pictures of Egyptian Boys.. Notice how a diversity of colors is included..Do you think it makes sense..for these Modern Egyptians to be descended from "white" colored peoples? Do they have "black" blood within them?


http://www.ci.baltimore.md.us/believe/images/egyptians.jpg


Here are some Middle Eastern people..Do you believe they were descended from people with light skin?

http://www.tribalmessenger.org/t-middle-east/images/iraq-mid-east-war-expanded/Iraqis-fire-machine%20guns.jpg

So use your common sense..and try to think outside of what you/many others have been indoctrinated to believe. Christ's "Color" truly doesn't matter, however, misrepresenting his actual appearance does.

There are only two real "types" of people in this world..those who follow Christ..and those who do not.

Anyone who is a Christian..be they black/white/gray whatever..needs to ask themselves the question..If Christ were to come down before me..and appear as a "race" other than my own..would I still accept him as my Lord and Savior?

I know what my answer is..Do you truly know yours?

Fin.

CosmicSurfer
You really need to get your facts straight. There are some things you failed to mention.

Yes, there are black jews, but guess what? There are also *Japanese* jews as well. What you showed to me was irrelevant. The *original* jews are the Hebrew middle eastern stock. In other words, they found the religion. Judaism originated from the semites who trace they're ancestry to ancient Mesopotomia(which consisted of Syria, Iran, and Iraq).

Any other Jew, let it be European, black, or etc. are converts to the faith. Just like how there are over 900 million people all over the world who follow Christianity. Same goes for Buddhism, who's majority of the followers are East Asian. But it's faith is derived from India by an Indian Hindu prince named Siddartha Gautama.

For a couple of thousands years Egypt was invaded by many people including Blacks(*hint* from Sudan of course), Arabs, Berbers, Syrians, Nubians, Libyans and even Greeks. The Egyptians you showed are a mixture of these people combined with the true Egyptians.

http://www.geocities.com/enbp/

However the Copts are the only pure descendents of the ancient Egyptians. The Copts are the original inhabitants of Egypt, as they did not immigrate to Egypt from other countries.

Although there's one thing I disagree with this article below that they have a "white" complexion. Egypt has a hot dry humid weather, so they can't be white. The melanin in their skin would be greater because of the enivornment they live in. I'd say the archaelogists meant to say that they're oliveskinned.
http://www.copts.net/history_book.htm

http://www.copts.net/history.asp#who

Son of Man
Jesus was not black. He could have been mixed with black, but is not black.So, you know what race Jesus was? He was mixed.

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