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On the subject of The Lost Twenty & The Sith Order. Now, I allow my thoughts dwell on this piece as items I reference to are included the novelisations of TPM and AOTC.

Info #1: The Sith Order at one point initiated a rule of two- a master and an apprentice. This rule is something the Jedi exert as well, so it really helps to show that you really have these two sides to a Force. Using the light side, and following a rule of two seems to bring about an abundance of Jedi who can live in harmony. Those mis-using the Force obviously cannot survive in large numbers, but they can maintain a balance (ie, their meager survival) through a rule of two.

Info #2: Over the course of time, the Jedi have had 20 members of thier order leave. To where, we are never told. But I have a theory:

As to whether higher Jedi know, or not, I can't tell. But lets combine a few pieces of information. Mis-use of the Force can obviously lead to quite some power- perhaps the ability to cheat death. If so, a Sith Master could live for quite while, yes? A Sith Master must have a Sith apprentice, So he must train someone. Perhaps each of the order that have left have become the apprentice to the same Master. Over hundreds of years.

Sidious could very well be a master in equal age to Yoda. The same Master, prolonging their life through the Dark Side could live forever. We've seen in the movies that Sith apprentices seem to be throw-away. Perhaps Sidious really does go through them one after the other, besides, with his power they would never be a real threat. The only set-back is to have to waste another 20 years training up a new apprentice. Perhaps, when Sidious cannot find a child with a high midichlorian count in the Outer Rim, the quicker solution is to seduce a Jedi with power.

Sidious could very well be the instigator of this current 1000 year old plan of the Sith to grab at power.

But imagine when someone as powerful as Anakin comes along. Here is a Jedi that should surely be Sidious's apprentice. With someone of Anakin's power under his control, Sidious would indeed be able to wipe out every last Jedi. But perhaps Sidious sees that Anakin could also be his biggest threat.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sidious knows Anakin's fiery fate, and is thankful for it (as it would potentially reduce Anakin's potential).

Just some things to chew on.

i use to not agree but i believe it was PVS who said that all along that sidious was well over a 1000 years old, i agree now, the darkside has kept him alive and right now it makes me think of a lyric in a ministry song "animosity will keep you full,but it leaves the soul drained"

We better see his ultimate power in E3 or I'll be very, very disappointed.

Oh we will. We definitely will.

I liked your theory smegsaber. It's very likely that Sidious is as old as yoda or older.

This is a valid theory in my opinion. I know the EU is kinda screwy sometimes, but it does mention the Emperor jumping from clone body to clone body to maintain his life. For once, this could kinda jive with the movies. And besides, this movie is called Revenge of the Sith. Normally, people don't really care to much about what happened 1000 years before their time (ie: destruction of the Sith), but Palps still seems mighty ticked. Just my 2 bits.

Well, if he was several hundred years old, it would explain his ability to defeat Yoda. He was waiting for the proper apprentice and mastery of his own powers to "destroy" Yoda. This idea is cool.

nice idea but personally I'm not sold on it....

Ofcourse as with most things, the more I think about it the more likely it seems....

I think that Sideous is probably very very old in reality, I also do believe that he forsees Vader's eventual end, but what he sees is Luke defeating Vader ans becoming his next apprentice. Luke manages to change that vision by bringing Anakin back to the good side.

yeah, i would bet the farm that sidious is older than dirt.
the clues are all there.

1-"i'll be able to stop people from dying" i believe that's a hint of the darkside's power.

2-sidious changes form in an instant in ep3, complete with wrinkles, and brown/yellow teeth...looks to me like they are trying to make him look ancient.
kinda reminds me of dracula.

3-"at last we shall have our revenge" maul seemed very impressionable, enough to bear sidious' cross, so i assume sidious is the one who seeks revenge. revenge for what? does anyone get the impression that sidious was personally defeated by the jedi? as opposed to his master's master's master's master's master's master's master's master's master?

4-again, the title of the film...REVENGE of the sith. anakin gets his 'revenge' of coarse...but what of sidious...as far as we can see in the PT nobody has wronged him...so i get the impression that he was whooped by the jedi when the sith were supposedly 'extinct'.

5-horror films. seeing that scene of vader 'rising' is an undeniable nod at frankenstein's monster. GL obviously has a soft spot in his heart for old horror films the same as for old sci fi serials. and like i said, sidious is very dracula-like imho.

"5-horror films. seeing that scene of vader 'rising' is an undeniable nod at frankenstein's monster. GL obviously has a soft spot in his heart for old horror films the same as for old sci fi serials. and like i said, sidious is very dracula-like imho."


well its nice to see GL is getting inspiration again from old TV serials and movies. Thats what made Star Wars the legend that it is

In one of the chats, Pablo said that the clones of Jango are the only ones in ROTS, and he also said that Palpatine is not Sifo-Dyas (and that neither is Grievous, btw).

I thought I remembered him also saying that Palpatine was old, but not THAT old, but I couldn't find it. If he did, maybe someone else can.

edit: And I believe he said that Palpatine's appearance is the result of something that happens to him.

Just to interject another angle on this, In Episodes 4-6 the jedi do the same thing to survive after the extermination of the whole jedi order. Meaning there is only as we know 2 jedi left (Yoda and Obi Wan Kenobi).

Ben dies at the hands of vader leaving just one fully trained jedi left (Yoda) who proceeds to train Luke. This next part sort of requires a certain leep of faith but bear with me.
When yoda dies (or becomes one with the force ... however you wish to phrase it), when he tells luke to pass on what he has learned he probably(maybe?) meant to leia. This would of course obey the 'rule of two' that kept both him and obi wan alive.
Mind you, with the end of the 'dark times' yoda could have thought it was safe enough to go back to the old vision of lots of Jedi.
So the rule of two has been used by both jedi and sith at one time or another.
I too think sidious is old, I'm not quite sure he'd be as old as yoda. But I do feel he's not going to be that far from it. To get much more clearer I think we need a bit more info when the next trailer comes out.

Wayne...

When i very first saw AOTC, and they kept naming who had been Padawan to whom, I've always thought it would be interesting if Sidious was actually OLDER than Yoda and had in fact been Yoda's master. Not sure if there is any basis for it, but it does sound cool...Look:

Sidious>-----Yoda>-----Dooku>------QuiGon>------Obi Wan> ------ Anakin

Like i said, there's not really any basis for this, so no need to flame me on it!!!! I know its a stretch......

well i like how jedi academy continues on that note. that storyline of luke leading the next jedi academy is what i see in my mind happening after ROTJ. i know its EU, but it makes sense to me.

Well, just shot a hole in my own theory. Found this answer from Pabs....(paraphrased):


No,even though we don't know about them, there have been Sith lords between a thousand years ago and Sidious, he's not that old.


Oh well..............

NVM the EU.

And yes, I never ever believed the idea that Palpatine was that old- it makes his origins as a native of Naboo far too dodgy- and we have pretty much had it confirmed that all these 'age-old' theories about Sidious are untrue.

In that respect, he is just a guy. He might be getting on a bit, but no more. GL has directly said that he is simply the latest in a long run of Sith Masters. So no need to complicate this further.

i like the idea that perhaps he trained yoda or yoda trained him at one point. that could be the twist we find out about.

i never saw any such confirmation.

Pabs confirmed it, and GL's comments on, as I say, Sidious only being the latest in a long line, do so also.

i like that gang, that would make alot of sense. perhaps the truth comes out as the two of them duel eachother.

i just check the quotes at tf.net and cant find anything that disproves the theory.

only thing i found was this:

The only insight on Sith history will be recent history, not ancient history (pre-TPM). -PH

but that can be taken many ways. if palpatine says something like "i have waited for over a thousand years" would that really be an insight into the history of the sith?

Sidious is more than 1000 years old i found it out on a site it was his 1000 year plan to wipe them out and it clearly says yoda loses to him due to sidious advanced age

Originally posted by Sega
Sidious is more than 1000 years old i found it out on a site
Was the site supershadow.com?

well, then it must be right. because SS is the most intelligent, truthful...no, wait. he's a royal douchebag.

palpatine was hiding his identity,that is why when he gets shocked by his lightning he starts getting older and older and sooner or later his true identity is revealed, i believe he truly did plan to take out the jedi from a long time ago, also the revenge of the sith means that the jedi get wiped out, they get their revenge understand ? the sith were wiped out long ago, but now they get their revenge and the jedi get wiped out!

Originally posted by PVS
yeah, i would bet the farm that sidious is older than dirt.
the clues are all there.

1-"i'll be able to stop people from dying" i believe that's a hint of the darkside's power.

2-sidious changes form in an instant in ep3, complete with wrinkles, and brown/yellow teeth...looks to me like they are trying to make him look ancient.
kinda reminds me of dracula.

3-"at last we shall have our revenge" maul seemed very impressionable, enough to bear sidious' cross, so i assume sidious is the one who seeks revenge. revenge for what? does anyone get the impression that sidious was personally defeated by the jedi? as opposed to his master's master's master's master's master's master's master's master's master?

4-again, the title of the film...REVENGE of the sith. anakin gets his 'revenge' of coarse...but what of sidious...as far as we can see in the PT nobody has wronged him...so i get the impression that he was whooped by the jedi when the sith were supposedly 'extinct'.

5-horror films. seeing that scene of vader 'rising' is an undeniable nod at frankenstein's monster. GL obviously has a soft spot in his heart for old horror films the same as for old sci fi serials. and like i said, sidious is very dracula-like imho.

1 - And you think Palpatine was telling the truth?

2 - As the Visual Dictionary says, the lightning melted his face.

3 - Revenge of the Sith, of course! The Sith got annihilated by the Jedi and the Republic, the Sith have been planning their comeback, and Palpatine is the one who is ready to bring them back.

4 - Revenge of the Sith...again. Not Revenge of the Palpatine. The Sith wipe out the Jedi, and take over the Republic, which they then destroy. I'd say that's revenge.

5 - Cool, George likes horror films.


I always though that Palpatine was at least in his late 90's/early 100's by the time of his death.

Well after the Battle of Endor, he was resurrected through clones twice, so it's possible that the ORIGINAL Palpatine survived the ancient Sith/Jedi war and cloned him self every 100 years so he could witness the extermination of the Jedi personally.

Originally posted by Captain REX
2 - As the Visual Dictionary says, the lightning melted his face.
I don't care what ANY book says, lightning does NOT melt a persons face, turn their eyes red and rot their teeth...

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Well after the Battle of Endor, he was resurrected through clones twice, so it's possible that the ORIGINAL Palpatine survived the ancient Sith/Jedi war and cloned him self every 100 years so he could witness the extermination of the Jedi personally.

EU makes my brain melt...