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who ever created god if he created us

God always was, and always will be

No one created god, and no one created us.

both of your statements cannot be true...at least at the same time.... even those who deny Him as a being, must admit that God exists at the very least as an idea....therefore it could be said that mankind invented God.

something created us....even those who believe the big bang created us...would then be placing Big Bang as god

Yes, mankind did create the thought of a god...But the Big Bang is not a being so no it is not god.

*sigh* I suppose that comes down to your def of god....IMHO whatever consumes you is your god....God wants to be the center of your life...but most people place money, people, ideals, big bangs as god

I believe that God is simply something that people made up.

Do I believe that God exists? No. Plain and simple.

There is a Zen Buddhist Koan like this question. A young monk one day goes up to a master and asks "If all things come from the source, and all things return to it, from where did the source come from, and to where will it go" to which the master replied ""When I was in Jing Zhao, I made a cloth shirt. It weighed seven pounds."......

Nothing exists until it is observed. Before mankind, there was nobody to create the concept of a god, and therefore, since only humans are capable of imagining such an entity, he didnt exist before we weree here to observe it.

as far as we know

For the God of the Christian religion, or Islamic one for that matter, one of the prime requirements is that he/she/it is omnipotent, omniscient and immortal, basically always has been and always is. If that were true then nothing created God, he's just always been. Of course different religions have different ideas and like giving their Gods a bit of a history, usually, in cases of Egypt and Greek myths, the universe is a big soup of chaos, out of which grows physical things, like Titans or gods and sometimes the world. Other times a god pops up, kills some chaos god, and then makes the universe and heavens out of its corpse...

So..if ''he'' always was and always will be, what did ''he'' do before ''he'' created us? Just sat on his ass being bored?

Milla...that's what I've always wondered myself!

'he' didn't exist until humans were around to invent him, but as soon as they did, he had existed from the beginning

according to bible, God always has been there.
he is the begining of everything.
and isnce there was no world, there was no God, but when he created world he has been there


i don't think i've made much sense bag

according to the bible he has always been there.
But before the bible, this could not have been the case, as you could not have used the bible to tell you whether or not he existed.

Jules Verne

Yah...

Because if "he" was a "she" then "she" had better get her ass back in the kitchen behind that oven and stove...

Another age-old question that will never be solved. If we discover something that created God, well then what created the 'thing' that created God?

Each answer introduces 1,000 more questions.

Imo, man created god and not the other way round.

Fair enough. A lot of people cannot fathom a supreme being, and that is not a bad thing. We cannot all believe in God. But I simply cannot picture my life without God.

This thread asks, as I stated before, an age-old question. And one that there is unfortunately not really an answer for. With every answer, another 1,000 questions will arise.

There is nothing wrong with a person of faith asking questions. But you have to remember that there are some things that cannot be answered.

like why people put blind faith in something that has absolutely no direct affect on their life, cannot be seen, touched, or even proven to exsist.

Now that's something that can't be answered.

God was created by man, the universe's quintessential storyteller. As for an "afterlife" (an oxymoron if I ever heard one), we better make due with the one we have now. Nature, quite simply, doesn't keep dead things around. Take it from an ex-Catholic, our religious leaders are nothing but con artists and opportunists. John Paul II, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, et al., -- why would anyone listen to these people? Fear, I suppose.

I dont get the point of your post...? does it even have one?

Blind faith? Very hard to produce. It's like me flicking though a list of American Football teams and saying "Hmm the "San Francisco 49ers"... I'll take it" and believing devoutly that they would always win. You need some proof that something good happens before you worship anything. We call it prayer. We feel a presence in our lives, as we talk. Or listen. Listening is more adult like, but asking is more common.

Anything can be answered. Everything has a cause, except the prime mover. It's like the turtle under the world. Some people think that the only way that would work was if there were infinity turtles, each supporting each other. They ignore one fact; turtles can swim. They support themselves. Like God. I remember that somewhere in the Greek, or Hebrew, of the Old Testament, he answers his name with something meaning "I am always". He exists regardless of anything else. He can do the metaphorical doggy paddle.

Nobody made God because he does not exist.But offcourse you can say the people made God in their mind;

You can also say that aliens made us to simulate war, a concept impossible for real lifeforms. alien2warstarwarsstarwarswaralien2

Doesn't mean that I'd believe you.

My policy is, if there is a supreme being, which is possible in my view considering all that there is, then it truly is omnipotent. So if you're gonna believe that a God is there, talk directly to it and don't be sucked into believing you need the happiness-erasing middlemen that are Priests.

If God is a God it'll hear you wherever you are.

I agree with Link though to an extent. I hate it when people say "I prayed for a new car, God blessed me with one." Only humans could ever be so arrogant as to believe an omnipotent supreme being has nothing better to do than hook you up with a BMW.

-AC

Who created god?

I think we as humans are so limited and parallel in our knowledge and thought processes that our minds could not possibly fathom the answer to that question.

I think that would be more accurately described as an idol, at least if we're talking God vs. god(s) to avoid confusion .


He was just being a smartass.

Who created God?







We did, because we needed something higher to believe it. However, that doesn't knock the existence of a higher being. It's just we have created so many gods in human history that it's hard to believe if any of them are real or just our imagination?

That is an insightful bit on your part--I am being sincere here (I hate having to mention that...).



Pain. Pain is an illusion. Pain is not felt by the body; it is felt by the mind. It is not real in the sense that the computer at which I am typing is real. It cannot be accurately measured or weighed. Without our brains, we are a mass of organs/organ systems that each "do their own thing". I cannot fathom the amount of processes that our body starts and completes each day--surely it is numbered in the trillions? (Does anyone know?)

Without our brains (cerebrum, I mean), we would continue to live. Our hearts would beat, our lungs would inhale and exhale, but we would be cut off from the world. No senses, no movement. Without the cerebrum, what would we be? Automatons. This thing inside us that makes us us--it gives us pain and pleasure, fills us with emotion, allows perception, and more. And most importantly, it gives us personality.

It cannot be measured or seen or touched, yet it essentially is what we are. Can we prove it exists? Only by our own confirmation. We cannot look at someone and say, "Ah, now THERE'S a guy with personality," or "Gee, I'll bet his parents didn't have complete personality centers (or something along those lines)." The existence is based purely off of our convincing ourselves that fatalism is not true.

If I didn't make much sense, I apologize, but I'm beat and wanted to post this quickly before I went to bed.

i think that god has always been here and always will, watching over us and protecting our loved ones that have died.

and someone wrote something before saying what did he do till he invented humans - well think!! what would you do if you had the world in the palm of your hand and it was all to yourself...

it is your nerve system that signals it

"who created god?"


A guy on shrooms.

..............or a really really bored neanderthal

Naw man, They guy on Paoti created God, the guy on Shrooms created the devil.

It was a clever buissness man who wanted to think of a way of controlling the world through fear and superstition without any real effort.

the fear and superstition is created by the person, not the religoun. Business men are not that smart anyway. People in general are just really really STUPID and lazy. I guess that could be related to followers of religoun too, so maybe it was a moderatly intelligent business man.

It was invented as a way of controlling the locals, and a justification of the right of the king to be more important than his subjects

I think he was trying to be - but failed miserably. Ah well, not the first time.

no...i did a pretty damn good job of being a smartass.

What i failed at was being funny in your eyes.

I've been told
God always is and always was.

That might be true, but it only becomes true once you believe it

If there is nobody or nothing else to worship god, then (relatively speaking), is he really a god.
He would need lesser being to worship him and prove that he is a god (because if there was nothing to compare him to, he would just be normal).
This means that he only becomes a god when we become sentient and aware of him.
Therefore, god only exists when there is somebody to worship/acknowledge him.
Therefore, he didnt exist before makind, and wasnt able to create them until they had been compared with him to prove that he was godlike.

Therefore, humans invented god.

Another typicial answer from an atheist.

I have nothing to lose by believing in God. I have a lot to lose by not.

I'd say something televangelical like, "AMEN BROTHER!", but I hate televangelists.

EDIT: I'm apologizing in advance for my double post. See below for my thoughts on it.

Actually, the pain receptors in your body are triggered, the impulse is sent up through your spinal cord, it hits the thalamus and is sent to the appropriate area of the brain, and then--ONLY THEN--is pain felt.

EDIT: Blast! Sorry about the double post...argh, I hate it when I do things like this .

Yet another thread where my answer is simple:
(Or Absinthe for that matter)

Is there any difference between creating a religion, and creating god?
Is it 'god' that required humans for 'him' to exist, or is it religion that requires humans for it to exist?

If jesus is credited as the founder of christianity, mohammed is creditted as the founder of islam, buddah is creditted as the founder of bhuddism, then that means that their religion only started when they created it.
If the god of their religion exists, then the religion should have existed since the beginning of time, but since the religion was created by man, then the god is also created by man.

-sigh-

God could not exist before humans (or angels, faries, leprechauns, whatever your folk tale)............

If a being existed all alone, it would not be a god......it would just simply be. There would be no other being to compare it to.......it would simply be 1 being in a 1 being existence, which would make him the exact same as all other beings, average...not a god.


Humans created god to explain things they had no answer for. "why's the sky blue?"......."'cause god made it that way"......."why's the grass green?"......."'cause god made it that way"...........humans did not know what an atmospher or chlorophil were. 'tis why religion is declining today. As we grow as a race and find the answers to these questions ourselves, we no longer need some magical wizard who creates things at will without method to credit them to. Knowlege is slowly killing god.

Don't you guys think that we are wasting our time trying to guess who or what created god? Shouldn't we define ourselves FIRST before we even try to define a being such as God (if he exists of course). The question here is whether you reject the existence of God. Does a being have to be really made out matter in order to exist? The scientific rule here says yes (I'm under the assumption here NOT making a general statement). Therefore there can't be no God. Again, if you take the scientific argument as truth then how do you fit matter in things like mind and thought? Any of you have the same wacky theory of mine that God has lock the door in our minds? And that only by finding a key (here a key is a metaphor for Philosophy) we can't really experience God? What is the standard form that all Religions use to try to communicate with a god? By using prayer. And isn't prayer something that we do mentally?

Going back to my original statement of defining ourselves. IMO the best way to help define a person is to look inside our heads and try to define what I'am and what I'm suppose to do. Worry about defining God later.

Why do you people try to figure this stuff out? Im still trying to figure out how many licks it takes to the tootsi filled center of a tootsi pop.

that is possibly the worst philosophical bullshit i've ever read in my life, and i've taken philosophy classes....! Something doesnt have to believe in order for the beleived to exist!

Why of course! Let's ask George W. Bush. He talks to God all the time...

And God tells him "Kill the Iraqis!"

Well said.

and apparently God is talking to those Iraqi terrorists (many of them aren't even Iraqi......many are actually Muslim extremists who have come to Iraq) to kill innocent people.......truck drivers.......aid workers.......anybody who's not Muslim.

Hell.....I despise Christians but aleast their god doesn't tell them to decapitate people who don't believe the same way as you..........which is apparently what the god of Islam is telling these Iraqi terrorists.

and yes.......to save arguement.......they are terrorists. They are not acting on behalf of the Iraqi government as military would. They are actually even acting against their own country's government.......killing Iraqi government officials. That is terrorism.

A government appointed by their enemy's. And i prefer to call them rebels.

rebels would only pertain to Iraqis fighting the Iraqi government and the United States. How can you call Saudi and Pakistani people who are going into Iraq to fight on behalf of their religion rebels? How are they rebels when it is not their land nor country?

Apparently you have never heard of The Crusades or the mass slaughters carried out by Christians at the direction of the Pope in centuries past. It was all done in "God's name." Make no mistake about it, most of the insurgency in Iraq is comprised of Iraqis. Foreign fighters are only a very small contingent. Religion is all about blind obedience (also known as faith) and concentrated power/control. And Bush has God on his side? Yeah, I can see that, as everything is going so wonderfully!

Bush has god........the Iraqi terrorists have god........they should all go away. No good has ever come from religion........and it never will. Religion exists soly as a support structure for people who need their beliefs re-enforced by others. All it does is create a gang like mantality of "we're right and you're wrong"..........which is what leads to violence........just like the Crusades (thanks for the info. but if you'd read the other threads in this forum you'd see that I brought up the Crusades in one of my rants against Christianity last week)......the native holocaust of the Americas.....and even now in Iraq. These religious nutjobs can't get it through their thick heads that we just want Saddam out and a reasonable ruler in........they think we want to make Iraq just like America and convert them all to Christians.

Why do you put so many ........... in there?

also, Ajax.......

you say these Iraqi terrorists are rebels because they fight against/kill members of their own government because they don't agree with it.......so by that reasoning, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols are rebels for the Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing?

because I can.

Fair enough.

I believe it was jango fatt who called the insurgents rebels. Perhaps there's a fine line between rebels and terrorists. That they use terrorist tactics cannot be denied -- the killing of hostages, using civilians as shields, etc. Note that I didn't include roadside bombs against convoys as a terrorist tactic. Hitting an enemy's supply route is right out of West Point and Sandhurst. Very confusing, isn't it? As for McVeigh and Nichols, I suppose they viewed themselves as patriots. But to me, they were just simple mass murderers in the same vein as the Columbine killers. And boy, wasn't that Colorado SWAT team something out at Columbine? They should have fed those two punks their teeth, but they followed some half-ass, predetermined procedure as the rampage continued. Iraq may very well end up as an Islamic state just like Iran, with the religious mullahs in charge. Ironic, isn't it? The evangelical George W. Bush -- Mr. Christian himself -- wasted all of those American lives (not to mention the 10,000 wounded) to create a second Iran.

So that's why you believe in God? There it is, the old "fear factor" conjured up by all religions. Don't believe in our God or follow our rules? Bam! You're headed to eternal damnation. We as a world society pay a huge price for religious beliefs. In addition to the countless wars, pogroms, etc. religion/belief in God has engendered, we have wasted billions upon billions of dollars (and pounds, Euros, or any currency you care to name) -- not to mention valuable time -- in idol worship. The Catholic Church spent $100 million to build a new cathedral in Los Angeles. Money well spent? No federal money for stem cell research. Why? It's against Bush's religious beliefs. Frankly, I wouldn't let "W" run a kiddie lemonade stand, much less the country.

So, lets consider the case of a cat trapped inside a box with a bowl of poisenned food. The cat was alive when it was put into the box. Without opening the box, you cant be certain whether the cat is alive or dead. Until it is observed, the cat is both alive and dead.
Nothing exists until it is observed

The problem in human history is NOT about religion, but the intolerance towards the religion of others.

I can follow eleveninches' logic. I don't think it's philosophical b.s. But the problem with religion is built-in intolerance and prejudice. Every religion out there thinks they're "the one true religion." And, sadly, many are willing to promote their religion by any means possible. I remember this Catholic priest giving a lecture on sex when I was like 12 or 13-years-old. My reaction was: "Christ, this guy knows less than I do." So I went home and read one of my secreted Playboy magazines. God, I loved Playboy...still do. "God" bless Hugh Hefner...

The dad and mom of God made him.

the problem is not the religion, its the church..... if YOU believe for yourself in god or something.... nobody will mind....
it were the churches that let people fight the other religions in the last centuries... nobody would have had that idea on his own as he isnt mighty enough. all religious wars that been fought while 1 person or a very small group had been head of that religion.... like luther was for the protestants.... or the pope was for the catholics.....
but at topic....
i think its an interesting question who created god.... and i guess theres simply no answer.....
who should know it?
i would reason...:
WE actually exist! The state of feeling something feeling somehow doing something, beeing individually, beeing able to react illogically.... lets me know that.
as i dont believe in evolution and the big bang theory, but i think just like Fred Hoyle (the founder of the big bang theory) that it just aint possible this universe to be created randomly by some absolute random process.... fred hoyle believed in the matrix theory, i dont... but i think all people who believe in a part of his beliefs should believe in all of his beliefs... just as the matrix theory...
as I dont KNOW whats the truth like and I believe in our real existence, i just know that there must be something out there manipulating this universe, because it cant be randomly created. thats my proof for the existence of god.... maybe he has always been there (like the christian belief says).... now this is where everybody should consider of what he is confident.

-> please criticize me

How could somebody(thing) create the galaxy?I do believe in the Big Bang theory and evolution.You ain't living in the middle ages anymore .Science all the way, man.

Why don't you believe in evolution, DK? Evolution is how we survive as a species. Virus, bacteria, animals, plants, etc. all evolve. Bacteria which becomes resistant to certain antibotics -- that's evolution in practice, not theory. If man didn't evolve, he would be wiped out. Also, why do you believe in only one God? Why not multiple gods? Could that be possible in your train of beliefs?

Yeah, man.It can all be proved(evolution).Never saw a proof of God, though.

like i said... Fred Hoyle has been a great physicist..... he said (got no quote right now) like: "if you know the rules of chemistry, physics and biology, you know that it must have been manipulated in some way..." thats where he believes that a matrix holds all the rules of sciences....
do you believe in the matrix theory? why? why not?
i dont believe in the evolution theory.... its been evidenced with theoretical evidence... i think thats no proof at all..
science.... wtf has the evolution or the big bang theory got to do with sience (excepting that its based on it)? it doesnt change a rule of sience if you believe in something different then others.... its the attempt of an declaration about the creation of the universe, based on the rules of sience...
create your own theory based on rules of sience..... maybe youll get famous :P

(sorry if you cant get any use of this post, just wrote what came to mind....)

Well, okay, if that's what you believe, DK. But my example concerning antibiotic-resistant bacteria is not theory, it's fact. Viruses are the same way, constantly mutating in order to penetrate a potential host's defenses. I'm with jango fatt, science is the key. What if they pumped all that money used for religion (building new churches, supporting opulent lifestyles for televangelists, missionary work, etc.) into medical and scientific research? It would be a better world.

Will check back later...I have to go back to work.

(damnit.... wrote a lot, kackt der browser einfach ab.... well wont write same again so just in reply to your last post)
first to the money... RIGHT i agree with you completely! but thats again not the religion that makes it worse but the church....

the human immune system is built to recognize to find bacterias and viruses that are equal or very similar.... but whats with rabbits? each generation got different coat(dunno if its the right word) with different colors and spots.... are they evoluting too? i think with the rabbits its like with the viruses... just the peculiarity of biodiversity (and maybe some influence of secret sience in microbiology, as we know how to create viruses )

i dont know how many gods are there.... but if i pray to one god... (if there are more than one) they may all feel adressed
i would have no problem if there were multiple gods.... but it must be at least one....

Well said .And evolution can be proved.

Like:
Early ancestors.

Sahelanthropis.
australopithecus ramidus.
Australopithecus anamesis;
australophitecus Afarensis (Lucy)
australopithecus Africanus.

They all extincted.Thus evolution.And they evolved in the family of the homonidae.

and then you have like whole family's that extincted.

Like paranthropus boisei and robustus;

And the first homonids: homo habilis
homo rudolfensis

and then you have the advanced homonids: homo Ergaster,
homo erectus , homo heidelbergensis, homo neanderthalensis,homo sapiens,homo sapiens sapiens.

They all evolved.To us: homo sapiens sapiens.(well not all).

i guess it wasnt in reply to my post

Dk you are german?
Anyway I can't believe in a God as a person if at all I can accept a thing like good that startedd the Big Bang but that is all. I am too scienctific to believe in a christian god.

@bardock42:
im not german im errm something else
....many people believe in this theory that something has started the big bang and the evolution process..... a thing like god?? a thing has to be able to think i guess or else it wont be able to start the big bang and... everything thats able to think is called an individual... but the definition of god is only a individual (with or without a body or something we can perceive at all) ... so thatd be a god...!? did i get you wrong?

No it wasn't.

Chemical reactions, my friend.

i see

i know the nomenclature.... but where is the proof in it?? names dont give any proof!
well... they found skeletons... but compare the head of a primate with a human one.... and think about how many species die a day..... sure there were more species but the evolution is not proofed! thats why its called a theory a theory is an attempt of an explanation about a thing... not a fact at all....

One big star, that exploded.Wich began the process that made this galaxy.(ealmost everything actually).Every planet or star is a piece of that big star.(in dutch it's called the ''oerknal'' don't know it's name in english).

The problem with religion is that is requires you to sacrifice some of your beliefs to fit in with the teachings of the religion.
'Organised' religion is the problem. If it didnt exist, people would have a lot more varied (and free) opinions on various philisophical issues.

The fact that they extincted is a proof of evolution.and they evolved, another proof.The weaker die and the strong live on.

oh ok sorry! well my base thought was that most of the eminently respectable scientists say that it definitely cant have been an accident, but explicit manipulated by something (mighty above the rules of science)
i thought you agreed with me (and many scientists) at this point.....
ok... if there was some soup, where did it come from?

ok.... but.... extinction is no proof of evolution.... extinction doesnt say that a new species will be created... it only says that it dies... no proof where the species comes from.... only that it dies.... wheres the evolution? you cant proof a theory with the parts of a result of it.... it just wouldnt be called evolution theory if there was any proof.
who said that they evolved? maybe they were all the time vaguely the same... and the fact that the weaker die and the stronger live on is no proof either.....

Did you ever read the evolution theory? it clearly state's that extinction is a proof of evolution.And it is.If god would exist he would have made some new animals of that species.And why would God make one cell organisms? and why do you need to .... to have a shild.If god can make them.

That is the thin g I would call godlike were the **** did it come from doesn't need to be an individual though
Not an almighty good one at least.

i don't get you;

extinction cant be a proof of evolution.... i didnt want to talk about the abilities of god.... dont know a lot about him.... my problem is just that i cant understand extinction as a proof of evolution... maybe is extinction a part of evolution, but it just cant be a proof..... when im old ill lose my hair, is it a proof that my childrens hair will have a different structure?? thatd be what youre trying to tell me like....
the part of the evolution theory to proof is that a species changes itself and becomes a new species, and you just cant say "its because of the extinction"... that just wont work....
(sry i guess im repeatin myself...)

@bardock42: ok thatd make a sense altogether.....
(now to the original- or base-question: who created the godlike thing ?)

YODA IS GOD

I just think the various religions trivialize their "gods." I mean, thanking "god" just because your team won a sporting contest, as many born-again athletes do today? Would the creator of all the universe, as the believers claim, really care who won a football game pitting, say, the Oakland Raiders versus the Indianapolis Colts? I'm reminded of what former Indiana basketball coach Bobby Knight had to say on the subject. "God must have really been pissed off at Texas today because we kicked the hell out of them!" Bardock42, what's the general feeling in Germany these days concerning God and religion? Germany has produced a number of Nobel Prize winners in physics, chemistry, etc. Are the people more science-oriented?

well no one knows for sure. because to get an answer would be to die then you cant really tell people if your dead. so all of these gods are just the different peoples interpretation of their own ultimate being to create some sort of hypothesis for the meaning of life. its just the easy way out really.

One of the central themes here is that many people think they're indispensable to the universe. Thus, they have to "live on" after death.
Faulty logic there. It's interesting to note how many Christians and others oftentimes label a certain culture as being "superstitious," when in fact that's exactly the definition of their own beliefs. Christian, Islamic and other beliefs are as credible (or incredible) as anything the ancient Greeks, Roman or Norse conjured up. What's the difference?

do you mean that something outside the universe (or maybe inside) controlling it (is indispensable)....? or the people (are indispensable)....? (sry i dont get that sentence....)



there is simply no difference... but thats just the way people see themselves as normal!? if someone thinks it aint normal to wear red clothes he'll probably call a person wearing them not normal.... i think thats the same with beliefs... if someone believes in something you think its not normal, you say he is "superstitious"....
well.... who ever said that christian islamic or other beliefs are the right? is there a at last right belief or not??? who knows....
so i think theres no real difference, just in the characteristics/detaills of the belief....
its just that the christian belief had been enforced by the church in the middle ages.... what if noone had founded the christian church? i got no idea which religion we all would have....

i hope you can take advantage of my post

I mean that many individuals seem to think that they are indispensable, so important (at least in their minds) that they have to "live on" after death. There's no evidence of an afterlife -- it's all taken on faith.

You ever see the movie "Contact" (1997)? It's based on the novel by the late Carl Sagan. The Earth is supposedly contacted by an alien civilization from a nearby star system, who then give the Earthlings a set of blueprints in which to construct a spaceship. When deciding who should be the lone astronaut, the U.S. government makes their decision based on the candidates' religious beliefs. One fellow on the screening panel says they want to teach the aliens all about "our God." I guess the man thinks that the aliens are supposed to take our beliefs on pure faith, without any evidence. Typical evangelical thinking...

... didnt see that movie...
well youre right
got nothing else to say

God is not a person though. Im not going to tell anybody what to believe but I seriously question how some people can be so dismissive.

If you belive in scientific principles, then you should believe that you can not get something out of nothing. If you believe that you CAN get something out of nothing, then why wouldnt you believe that there was an omipotent, omiscent and omnipresent God?

If you believe that you can not get something out of nothing then nothing would ever have existed. Space itself would never exist as it is quite clearly something.

I do believe in God but I am however not that trusting in the religion(s) that people have created.

nice post @ clickclick
couldnt have said it better!

why the hell should they believe in a god just because they believing in getting something out of nothing.

In believing you could get something of nothing, they would be going against "scientific law/logic" and operating on the basis of faith. Complete faith as there is absolutely no evidence of such a thing being possible (getting something out of nothing).

So why be so dismissive of religion when you are willing to do such a thing?

who created god?
y, the PPL of course! I think he was "created" by some prehistorical smarta$$es just to organize the masses.
Just imagine a world with no religion.
I mean, these days there lots of atheists, but in the 15th century religion was the law.

cause it make more sense than religion

you missed following:



there cant be anything.... physics says: "you only can transform energy, you cant create or destroy it!"

so.... if there was never was anything.... where does the universe come from.... if there was something... a mass of protons, electrons and neutrons, it would have been in a stable state.... so there would never had been a big bang. if you believe the big bang may have come out of nothing or some amount of quanta.... then its just as realistic as the bible! isnt it? does it really make more sense?

well
religion = your explanation of the origin of the universe, the way youre supposed to live, and the end of the universe
so everybody has got a religion.....


edit: hmm... noone ever said they SHOULD believe in god, its only been said that its as realistic as any of the competitive theorys of the begin and the end of the universe....

Me....

OMG LIEK U R CRONUS TEHN!!!!!111!!!!!!!!

no something out of nothing still make more sense than and a god thats always been there

so creating everything from nothing makes more sense than something that has always existed?

could you explain why you feel that way? Im curious to find out.

Actually, you CAN create energy from nothing, as long as it only exists for a small period of time

Based on what? According to what? Since when?

When has there ever been evidence of this?

Its a fundemental concequence of modern physics.

You can create something out of nothing as long as the energy created times by the time it exists for is not greater than a certain constant.
I cant remember the precise numerical value for it, but it's very small

it makes more sense due to the fact that this thing that supposedly always have been there suddenly found out "hey let me create something, and I gonna set some rules to the things I create".
To be honest I have no clue of how we got to be where we are now and nobody else does either, does who says they know are nothing but a bunch of liars.
All I know is that we are here know and that is what matters.

So what if the universe always been there why aint that as possible as a god that always been there

what exist for a small period of time?, the created energy ?

When you say you, you mean an actual person?

Also would you mind giving an example of this....

I already see problems in what you are saying but I would rather you explain a little more before I speak my piece on it.

I of course have read theories of energy extraction but anyway, please answer those questions for me.

Yes it is hard to grasp the concept of a God who has always existed, I would not deny that. I believe that if anything were to exist save for an omnipotent power, it would have to be created.

The universe not being an omnipotent power, I find it hard to believe that it could have always existed.

But lets say for a second that they are equally incomprehensible, then what keeps an atheist so dismissive of one side?

I figure they would at least move into the territory of agnostics.

an atheist dosnt automatically believe in the big bang and such, atheist is more against the idea of a god/s and thats about it

True, there are other theories out there which try to explain the origin of the universe, and other religions which do the same. Depending on how one views things they are either more acceptable and believable or less so. It is not exclusive territory of the Christian or Atheist.

Sorry to ask, I not currently up to date certain areas of science, but how accurate or certain is the field of quantum sciences these days? I know it proposes an answer for one of the biggest hurdles of the big bang theory, but how far has it progressed, and if an expert was asked what percentage of certainty would he give?

You are correct, they do not necessarily believe in the big bang theory. I wasnt really talking about the big bang theory though, I only made a small reference to it.

Existence of space, the universe and so on is essentially incomprehensible to somebody who believes that everything is logical (believing in science). However if you believe that some things can be incomprehensible, wouldnt that include an omnipotent one?
Since it presumably would, how could one dismiss the idea of God all together?

Thats why im saying youd figure that Atheists would at least be agnostic. An agnostic person admits not knowing and in doing so they dont dismiss the possibility of God.

If for example there was a murder. Could one dismiss certain murder suspects if you had virtually no evidence in the case? Or wouldn't they need to admit not knowing and that it could be any one of them.

As to the idea of whether of there being an ever existing god or an ever existing universe I will say this.

I believe that anything short of omnipotence can not have always existed. I believe that there would be nothing but nothing without there being an omnipotent power to create things.

Even the big bang theory is based on creation. Something that created the universe. So the question becomes, what created the power that created the big bang? How does anything emerge from nothingness without power?(I am including space itself).

This was supposed to say.

As to the idea of whether there was an ever existing God or an ever existing universe, I will say this.

I believe that anything short of omnipotence can not have always existed. I believe that there would be nothing but nothingness without an omnipotent power to create things.

It wouldnt let me edit.

While my answer is the most simple given, I believe it to be the most accurate. To say that I created god is to say that I created my own perception of the being. Even people who have grown up inside of a particular faith still subject their world view to their own personal experiences. As such, what I'm saying is that god means a little something different to everyone who believes in him/her/it. So I created my own interpretation of god and what relevance he holds in my life.

well if you dont think divinity exist you are against the idea of a god

yes but not against God since he doesn't exist

we've talked about matter and anti-matter in school... as i didnt believe in up/down-quark i denied the subject matter, and the teacher accepted it cause its only a theory... with no evidence...

a difference between middle ages and these days..... in the middle ages people didnt believe in theories which actually were evidenced.... (fe. isaac newtons theory of work, "every change in movement of something is caused of a force manipulating it"
today people believe in theories where is no evidence given....

Well beyond the fact that to believe quantum physics created the universe you would still require the use faith, there are still yet unresolved problems in such a theory.

1 ) any potential theory that scientist can come up with can not essentially rule out the possbility of God (the creator).

2) problem being that in true nothingness, space and photons would never exist. Electromagnetic energy or Electromagnetic radition quite certainly constitutes something. You cant create something out of true nothingness from nothingness.

Voila problem 3. Quatam physics does not sufficiently explain the question I pose.

which of course is a good point.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, either someone who was high created god, or someone who was mentally ill created god. That or someone who needed money and he knew that by lying to people and saying there's an invisible man in the sky who needs money that people would give money to him so he could do a line of crack off of a hookers ass.

Oh wait, that's only today's holy men that do lines of crack off of hooker's ass', that or molest children, I forget.

Man Created God.

who gives money to god? (or thinks he would give it to god?)

No, thats Only Rael....

Preists RAPE...

That was really good

Yup-that's kind of what it says in the Bible. He was bored I mean being the Almighty ONE can get pretty boring so he created everything and that's pretty much how I interpret God.

yeah a religious concept

According to the bible he created angels first.

thanks 4 all the posts read all of them even the ones that didnt make sense

luv ya

Some people say they love God. I love science, though I never was particularly good at mathematics. I wonder what people would say to "God" if they thought there would be no negative repercussions? Like, hey, get your act together?

A lot of you guys are really heavy into science. I wish I had paid more attention in my physics classes. I went to a parochial grade school: big on prayer and religion, delinquent on science.

Priests have free will and are not above bad choices.

I don't think I would call the rape of a child a "bad choice." It goes way beyond that in seriousness. It makes it sound as if the rapist made a wrong turn on a highway or something. Would you want to rephrase that? The entire sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church is beyond incredible. These bishops care more about retaining their positions of power than doing anything to address the problem. I honestly don't think they care anything about the victims at all.

The only people who can do anything about sexual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church are its members -- the "civilians" who finance the whole thing with their contributions. And their solution: throw more money at the church leaders...