Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

....

We dont know enough about toxin yet.

who's toxin??

a new symbiote

he's basically an offspring from venom and carnage, and his host is a good cop from new york with a wife and kid, we know how toxin came to be with the cop so its not like theres a questionable past behind him, wolverine takes this one on experience alone, he's proved his own against venom so he'd definitely take toxin out

the toxin character is real cool though, i hope theres more on the character seeing as its the first symbiote who's struggling to be an all-around good guy

Wow toxin sounds cool. Any pics? ALso i remember reading a venom comic where he was tied up and then his symbiote offsprung about 5 differnet symbiotes. One was a women symbiote/person who was yellowish that could throw her hair around and destory stuff. She fought spider-man for a bit. Can someone tell me the rest of that 'series'?

How do you know Toxin isn't class 100 strength or something? You don't, you can make any predictions, because for all we know Toxin could be too durable for Wolverine, or he might just reform whatever Wolvie cuts away.

Wolverine can't touch Toxin. Venom is class 11, he had an offspring, Carnage, who is class 25. That's roughly double. Carnage is not only stronger but more versatile than Venom. Then Carnage had an offspring. It's probaby safe to say that Toxin is at least class 50, and more versatile than both of them. Shit, even Carnage is afriad Toxin will kill him.

Wolverine can get a few swipes in, but he isn't going to win.

agreed from what we've seen even I have to hatedly admit that toxin would put a big hurting on wolverine......of coarse anything's possible in the marvel universe so who knows.

in the comics toxin took on both venom and carange and won easily

so if wolvie can barely take on venom then i think toxin can win easily

Man Wolverine8888 will be all over this. Why hasn't he already?

*cough*wolverine has given hulk trouble*cough*

.....not to mention venom is afriad of him and wolvie couldnt care less about carnage

this is a cool pic imo

http://tinypic.com/opn49

^ wow! very cool indeed!

Wolverine giving Hulk trouble is crap writing, and it was just to sell comic books. Hulk is class 100, and Wolverine isn't even at class 1. Wolverine would be lucky to break through Hulk's skin.

Who gives a shit if Venom is afriad of him? Carnage is a psychotic serial killer(scared of noone), and would tear Wolverine to shit. Toxin is stronger than Venom and Carnage combined, Wolverine can't touch him.

yeah wolverine couldn't scratch hulk

toxin has never proven to be stronger than venom or carnage, in venom/carnage #4, toxin gets beat by the both of them, and then spidey and black cat step in to help, toxin only hits carnage once and he runs away with venom (since they're outnumbered) its never shown that he's stronger than the both of them, thats basically just your speculation since carnage is stronger than venom but nothings been proven for toxin

hulk fighting wolvie is crap writing?although it was his first appearance, whether you like it or not it happened, wolverine fought hulk on several occasions and has proven a worthy opponent (in case you havent noticed, thats kind of his trademark)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/havoc470/WVH00.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/havoc470/WVH05.jpg

What that 2nd cover doesn't show you is that on the back side of the cover.....Wendigo is smacking Hulk in the back with a tree trunk.

Carnage is not class 25, he is just a little bit stronger than Venom...not double his strength. I don't recall Venom ever truly having much difficulty with Wolverine. There was the Venom Tsunami comics that were not only horribly written, but horribly drawn where a hostless Symbiote Venom tried to take over Wolverine, but in Tooth and Claw the two don't really get the chance to fight.

Toxin is stronger than Venom or Carnage, but not by that much. And Toxin's biggest problem is that he can't control the symbiote. He nearly killed that crook before he got level headed again.

Toxin just doesn't have a strong enough understanding of his alien symbiote to take out Wolverine. Wolvie is too experienced to lose against a foe like this...

But Toxin most certainly does have the potential to kick Wolvie's butt... He just hasn't got enough experience yet.

I only read the first issue of Tooth and Claw and unless they had other encounters, it was Dirtnap that was scared of Wolverine when he was in temporal posession of Venom.

Arachnoidfreak, who're the two hotties in your sigs?

And toxin takes this.

toxin definitely doesnt have anything on wolvie that other opponents have had on wolvie

this wasnt the comic i was referring to, i have to scrounge up the one im talking about

The first was Elizabeth Hurley(my avy now), and now I have Kate Beckinsale(my sig). A couple of England's hottest!

Yep, Toxin takes it.

lol, no refereence, he just wins because of fanboyism

umm that's a bit rich coming from you, you've been bias towards wolverine for this entire post.

actually my first post had me talking about liking toxins character, and then not too long ago i said we dont actually know enough about toxin to say he's stronger than venom or carnage from the 2 or 3 issues he's appeared in, i may sound like im bias towards wolverine but its just because i dont type everything i think about in my posts

I can't believe you called me a fanboy.

If we follow the pattern, each symbiote becomes more powerful that it's parent. Therefore Toxin is stronger than Carnage, and it's also been stated by Venom and/or Carnage in the comic itself. Besides, when was the last time a regular knife or bullet penetrated a symbiote? Never. Guess what Wolverine will be using? Big ****ing knives attached to his hands. For Wolverine to win, he'd need a sonic enhancement to his claws, or a damn flamethrower.

Secondly, the Wolverine fanboyism displayed -anywhere- not just this forum, makes me want to puke. They take a perfectly decent not-so-out-there character and make him i0nto a god-like idol. Ugh.

sure, they're knives, but made out of an indestructible metal and sharp as sh*t, anyway what about that female symbiote, is she an offspring from any other symbiote?

Shriek? Or the other one? The 5 offspring that came from Venom in the Lethal Protector series don't usually count as official offspring, seeing as they were made artificially from Venom's symbiote (I think. I don't remember). Anyway, each symbiote is allowed ONE offspring, Venom's is Carnage.

And Wolverine's claws aren't indestructable, Hulk has bent and broken adamantium before. (That's why his fights with Wolverine are bullshit)

those were extracted directly from Venom's suit. I think the original wrighter wanted them to each be as powerful as carnage, but due to shitty wrighting afterwards, they were merely used as basic thugs through major plots.

just because he has bent adamantium (although i never heard of him doing this) doesnt mean he could bend wolvies claws, i mean they arent very long so they're hard to grab, and they're razor sharp so if hulk did grab them wolvie would just pull and slice, they've been fighting eachother forever, i've never seen anyone call it crappy writing before

There could be a number of theories that could explain that, like WHAT IF: wolverine had more than one mutant power, what if he was able to physically reinforce the amount of damage his adamantium could take by delivering energy towards the adamantium (or skeleton) inside his body simply based on willpower. it would help explain why a bone clawed wovlerine can get hit by the Hulk without just being vaporized off the face of the earth much less an adamantium filled wolvie. just a theory, but it's not entirely implausible. sorry to be off subjuect

on subject.
I love Wolverine, but a pissed of toxin backed down carnage and venom, I would have to assume that carnage has a lot of experience in fighting too, (albiet not nearly as much as wolverine) but he got crushed by toxin, nearly killed. I don't think wolverine can stand up to that.....if Toxin is as inexperienced as one would say, he might make the mistake of allowing wolverine to get up close and personal, if that happens all it takes is one good slash to the host body and that fights done for...but right now I still say the advantages go to toxin.

what issue did toxin do that? i remember in #4 he gave carnage a good clock on the back but it didnt really hurt carnage in a real bad way, carnage and venom (the oh so fearless characters they are) just ran away for no reason, not even a cool exit speech, i thought that was pretty wierd

in #3 he gave carnage a great beating but i dont think he could've killed carnage, other characters have given him worse than that

as for him making the mistake to get close enough to wolvie, from what we've seen of the character he primarily fights hand to hand well in range of wolvies attacks

that's what ithought too, but I still say he can't be taken lightly. and in venom/carnage 3 man, venom observed that he could have been killed, carnage agreed, and the only thing that stopped toxin was himself....I do agree about the exit in 4 though, what the hell was that? the've been in tighter spots (almost lethal) and pulled through just fine, I think that was a craptacular ending to what started out as a promising series.

Venom tells carnage in issue 2 (or was it 3?) that toxin could have killed him, and carnage agrees... or maybe it was carange telling venom that toxin almost killed carnage and venom agreed.... either way, both admitted that toxin coulda killed carnage.

in #3 carnage gets thrown out of a building by toxin, the next panel cletus is standing there with the symbiote regrouping and says "thats it, now you've gone and made me mad!", then later on carnage attacks toxin and tries to iron his face (lol) toxin beats him pretty bad and leaves the scene, then later venom says "until i saw it. he could've killed you" where carnage replies "dont remind me" and then they start talking about toxin having conscience and morality so they team-up to attack toxin

imo i dont think that was enough to kill carnage, i've seen him go through worse beatings than that


yeah the ending sucked too imo

im not saying wolvie is simply going to walk up to toxin and slash him like a maniac, it would definitely be one long hardcore fight with both character eventually going enraged, but imo wolverines superior fighting skills (not to mention his healing factor) would give him the win, especially if wolverine finally goes berserk

anyway, wasnt carnage weakened in an earlier comic after his fight with silver surfer, or sometime when venom re-absorbed the carnage symbiote and cletus found another one (said to be weaker in some bio's and the same strength in others) in the negative zone

i don't honestly know if carnage has actually been made weaker. i know that writers have weakened him down a few and a half notches since his first appearance, as they are the most dangerous enemy a comic book character ever has, but I don't really know.
I'm not saying that what toxin did ws enough to kill carnage, I just believe that he was definitely in a possision to kill carnage, and I don't think carnage would easily admit to something like that unless it was indisputible.
(lol) the only way i see Wolverne winning is him and toxin are near a gas station, wolverine slashes the pump and throws his cigar in the gas ....toxin "AHHHHHHH I'm on fire!"

how would toxin kill wolvie?

neck snapping has been proven wrong, he's survived space, strangulation, slashed throat, unconscienceness due to his nervous system, smashed inbetween two speeding cars (no adamantium)

i think this should be continued after we know alot more about toxin's character

Since when does someone have to die for the fight to be a victory?

well, seeing as wolvie wouldnt get knocked unconscience and he sure as hell isnt one to give up, theres only one other way out

If you cause enough damage to the symbiot it will start to leave areas of the host exposed. It don't think their is much Toxin can do to keep Wolverine down as it is (unless he really pisses him off) so it is only a matter of time before Wolverine gets to Pat.

well, if toxin can use toxic fumes like venom does, it would only take a small whiff of that stuff to knock out wolverine.

exactly... wolverine has been turned into a god by crap wrighting. Knowing that, you can pitch him against ANY enemy, and very few would be able to kill him without altering reality, if any.

yet, there are still ways to beat him. Hell, elektra almost beat him by stabbing him in the back with her sai.... not too impressive, if you ask me. Toxin sure as hell wouldn't be beaten by that...

"Wolverine into a god", and I wouldn't have him any other way.



sure beats that loser that got KOed by alpha flight's eradicator and sasquatch back in the day.

wolverine was running away to avoid killing her, elektra was trained by the hand, wolverine still has a human body, so she used pressure points to slow him down, not completely stop him, if he wasnt running away from her he would've definitely killed her

Alright the way i see it Toxin can beat Wolverine. First off right when he was first spawned he was able to beat Carnage like he was nothin. Second time they met he beat Carnage again like it was nothing and had Carnage on his knees and it looked like he was about to be head him or strangle him to death but either way Carnage would of died. Then when Venom and Carnage doubled teamed him they were winning untill he saw that Spiderman was about to be killed and he got seriously pissed off and bulked up like Venom and they ran away because they knew that he was about to lay them out. If Venom can give Wolverine a hard time how can you say that Toxin wont be able to beat him when he is an upgraded Version of Venom cause as it has been stated with every generation of symbiot they evolve stronger and stronger. Even with his experienced Wolverine would be beatin. Wolverine can be knocked out even though his head mght be adamantium nothin keeps his brain from getting knocked around or Toxin could just keep his distand and keep stabing him untill his healin factor is over loaded.

his healing factor isnt a computer it doesnt overload, it just works overtime the more wounds he has

when toxin came into the scene in #4 all he did was hit carnage once in the back and not really all that hard, the recent carnage was said to be weaker than the original carnage, cletus cassidy found the recent symbiote in the negative zone, so theres no way of telling if he's stronger than the other two although he did give them a beating, so has spidey which again results in questioning the true strength of toxin

i thought this was a cool pic

http://tinypic.com/pxg0l

found a better resolution

http://tinypic.com/pxies

does toxin have the ability to form weapons on his hands like carnage??

hasnt been shown yet, maybe he can, but theres no info on it

and that's why wolverine claimed he was trying to kill her in the same issue?


oh, and yes, she used pressure points. Umm.. toxin is a cop, right? You do realize that they know pressure points as well... maybe not the 100 million japanese made up ones that are in comics, but enough to seriously hurt someone with little effort, only problem is, most cops aren't trained well enough to actually USE them. They know what they are and where they are, but not how to use them effeciently (as a gun or tazer seems so much better most of the time) So, how do we fix that? Give them a symbiote. So yeah, toxin knows all about pressure points, and that's been shown to cause wolvie some SERIOUS trouble already....

LMMFAO, cops dont know pressure points, they use minimal sloppy ass tactics that most of them forget about once they actually become cops...thats one bullsh*t arguement if i've ever heard one

wolvie never claimed he tried to kill her!! she stabbed him in two pressure points on his back, thats when his escape plan started, then elektra stabbed him in the neck so he could have something hard to heal, he healed just in time when the water came rushing in, killed a shark, and made his complete exit with all the s.h.i.e.l.d. info he needed, his plan was to get in, get info, and get out while slowing them down, get the story straight

Electra would have killed Wolverine. He's no where near Elektra's level.

i think you should read more about wolvie, he's definitely at elektra's level because he was trained by the hand also, not to mention kills sea's of the hands best ninja's every few story arc's, has a healing factor, adamantium claws/adamantium-laced skeleton, oh yeah and he wasnt named WeaponX for nothing

wolvie didnt even care about elektra, he didnt even bother mentioning her in his mind, and basically mocked her when he first confronted her

oh come on i'm a devoted wolverine fan myself but damn! Wolverine was getting f***ed up by elektra. yeah she he may have been healing from a state of death and she may hav gotten the drop on him, but she was about to beat his carcus down with a metal pipe before the water rushed in. Also i don't recall wolverine saying anything about holding back from killing her, (isn't that the whole point of this stroy arch). She was beating him something ugly. Don't get me wrong in a straight up fight wolverine would kill her plain and simple, under the circumstances of this fight, she WAS definitely kicking his ass.
I still say (with an absurd amount of reluctance) that toxin takes this.
In the comics though I don't see what's so hard about fighting a symbiote, all wolverine has to do is light up one of them old school frankensein torches and wala instant advantage is his.

he wasnt fighting back, so it isnt a fight

ummm, im pretty sure if wolvie wanted to kill elektra he'd at least face her, instead of seeing his back turned to her through the whole issue, the meaning of that mission was to go in, get info, and get out, then go to the baxter building and do the same thing

dude how can you deny that he was fighting? once he could he turned around trying to open a can on her (sliced up her sais) and she beat him down anyway. i don't think wolverine is holding back from killing anyone on these missions. he just hasn't had the oppurtunity yet, i mean it's not like they're gonna let him kill some of the greatest heroes in the marvel universe just for his comic sales.

wolvie cut the sai's to give her less of an advantage, which helped alot considering his neck wound would've been alot worse if she had the full blades, and did you bother looking at elektra's expression to that attack?

the meaning of this story arc isnt to kick everyones ass, he's brainwashed and working for hydra to get info, its just uber-spy sh*t

she didnt beat him down, she just gave him a hard wound to slow him down, which worked for a little while, but wolvie was a step ahead

Wolverine has pawned Zaran, a guy who is a match for Shang Chi (or was). Elektra even posing a threat is just horrible writing but at least Wolverine was still injured from what ever Hydra and the Hand did to him.

good point, i hope millar shows what they did to the damn guy

I read enough Wolverine. I wouldn't be in this thread if I didn't know the characters.

There's already a thread explaining this throughly, but basically Daredevil, Elektra, and several others outclass Wolverine everyway in martial arts. The only reason Wolverine hangs with them is his healing factor.

Wolverine and Elektra met about 3 times. Electra could have killed him more than once if it were not for his healing factor.

and i'm sure your basing this off of your extensive knowledge of the police force... Really, they DO know pressure points, just they are pretty much useless to them, cuz 1) they arent very good at using them and 2) there typically isn't a need to use one.

but i mean, hell, they DO teach self-defense classes there, and not only for the public, but its mandatory for them, also. I mean, even in the police acadamy movies they learn that kind of stuff. Pressure points aren't exactly some great secret shared only with the greatest of ninjas, and typically those that you see in movies that are "secret" are just bullshit, of course. So yeah, toxin does have a very good chance of knowing pressure points, and i stick with my arguement. Elektra paralyzed wolvie by using pressure points... i think toxin would do a lot more...

wolverine can be stabbed and stuff by toxin and he would heal quikly but if hes got alot of bad cuts or wounds then it takes him like 10 seconds 10 heal and in that 10 seconds wolvi could have really bad cuts or something that hes on the ground and he just cant get up on his feet until there healed....toxin could use that little time to his advantage toxin could just start ripping wolverines back up if hes on the ground and toxin wouldnt stop and like toxin could just take him out easily

At what point in that comic was wolverine a step ahead in the hand to hand combat cause truley I'd like to know, I think that page wasn't included in my edition. I really hope that your referring to the explosion and the water rushing in, cause he's definitely wasn't "a step ahead" in the actual fight.