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i did a search and didn't find any threads on this topic.

so what do u guyz think...

and im not talking about the movie (eventhough it was a good movie)

http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/san_fran/stigmata.jpg

I do not think it exists.

why? i believe it

I know very little about it.Anyone care to exclaim it to me.And no I never saw the movie.JM

i thinks its where people are born with holes in their hands and feet ...not sure

not always born, some just have it later on during their life.

I know nothing about it except from the movie but from what I remember it's like a condition where someone suffers all the traits of Jesus Christ's crucifixion. So they get like holes in their hands and feet and marks on their back from getting whipped. I don't believe in it but it's an interesting idea.

it is what sometimes happened to saints
they're getting scars or sores, looking exactly the same as the ones which J. Christ had.

Oh I get it.So these people have holes iin there arms and legs like god did!So does these people have any special power or anythiing?JM

like jesus, and they dont necessarily have holes in their hands, just that they might start to bleed from the places where jesus got his wounds. hands, feet, forehead, back, ribs and so on

Now that is spooky!Do they bleed all the time or only sometimes?Now you caught my interest!JM

actually it aint a well documented phenomenon, many think it is just a fake. More catholic thing than a protestant one, you also has the weeping Madonna(Mary) images, portraits and small sculptures of jesus mother supposedly weeping tears of blood. even the Vatican is highly suspicious toward these events

Sounds cool.How do you know so much about this sort of thing Finti?JM

I read a lot, and I had chrisitianity as a subject in school for 9 years(mandatory in Norway), you pick up bits here and there

we have one of this in my city

I should do some studyiing like that.The only promblem is that my dad is a pratising jew and he does not like me to read anything that has anything to do with Christens.
Which exclaims why I know very little of this faith.Are you Christen?JM

born a Lutheran Protestant(Norwegian state church) but I am no christian, I find the bible rather ridiculous

May I ask why you find it ridiculous?I find it pretty interesting when I sneak some times to read it that is.JM

ridicoluse because I dont believe in it, it think the bible is full of shit

Even through it was written along time ago and has stories on what happen during that time?Don't you find it alittle bit interesting?I know I do.JM

my history book tells stories that happen during world war III, dont praise it because of that .

when was WW III?

ooopppps an I too many,......................... or I could say I can see into the future

That is scary if you can see the future.I hope we don't have a World War three.That would be awful.JM

you wrote one I too many.
no future seeing

I can foresee that Poland wont qualify for the World champion ship 2006

i hope we don't. are you sure about that?
it is too annoying to have team there

I think it's a load of crap, kinda like the Bible.

Now you're just trying to cause trouble.

The bible is a lil....off with some of its facts i have to admit.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

That doesn't change the fact that this is the incorrect thread for a discussion about the why or why not the Bible/Christianity/etc. is true...and he's just trying to cause trouble.

just the same as with the stigmata stories, just a load of bull to try to back up a book and belief full of BS

Yep. A whole load of BS. Thank you for your contribution.

Stigmata are bodily marks, sores, or sensations of pain corresponding in location to the crucifixion wounds of Jesus, usually occurring during states of religious ecstasy or hysteria.

Scientists can replicate stigmata in controlled settings and psychologists attribute the phenomena to a psychosomatic disorder.

Makes sense. Like that one where the girl wants to be pregant so badly that she starts exhibiting signs of pregnancy.

I have a cigarette burn on the back of my right hand, and I often tell people that it's stigmata to see if they believe me.

That's manipulative and humorous. Heh.

My mother is a registered nurse. I remember one time my mother telling me about a nun she was treating. She was sent to the hospital for self inflicted wounds on her hands. My mother said that she had a circular wound in each one of her palms that bled constantly. Again the nun was forced to the hospital by the church. N my mothers shift, she was changing the Nuns dressings on her hands, after she done, my mother was about to leave the room. The person who was put on watch to look over the nun screamed for my mother out the door. My mother came back in the room, and saw that the nun was bleeding profusely from her feet. wounds had manifested on the nun's feet covering her bed in blood.

My mother said that the nun said, "that's never happened before" My mother asked what happened, and was shocked to see this. The nun said that the wounds never came from her feet before. My mom asked what she meant, and the nun said that this only happened to her hands, explaining that it happens every ounce in a while.

you can believe this or not, but my mother saw it happened, as did three other nurses she works with who are good friends with my mother. they all say the same thing. Seeing how the person put on watch to look over the nun, witnessed these woulds appear out of no where on her feet suggests to me that stigmata is very possible.

you are welcome

Stigmata are no longer that disputed but they now seek to explain them naturally.

I like Finti........being forced to study Christianity for all those years seems to have led him down the same path as I...........

the more you study...the more you learn.......the more you learn, the more flaws you see.

anyway...

yeah......I believe in the Stigmata. The human body is a wonderous thing. How does the brain know that cells have been damaged......to feel pain? It recieves those messages sent from those cells via nerves. Ever heard of a one way road? Me neither........it goes both ways.........messages can just as easily be sent from the brain down those nerves to those cells telling them to feel pain, bleed, die, etc. Just your basic psycho-symatic illness...........has nothing to do with mythical figures or super-heros with the wolverine like ability to ressurect.

There is not one thing on this earth that cannot be explained with cold, hard science. Granted, some things are still unexplained as we do not know everything about the Universe and how it works...........once we do, all information is ours. I myself hold hope that somebody one day finishes Einstein's unified theory of everything.........which will open the door. Okay, now I'm rambling...........I'll go now.

Eienstien even said in his latter years that there had to be a grand plan behind everything.

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own - a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms."

- The obituary of Albert Einstein, New York Times, April 19th 1955.

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."

ragesremorse........I completely agree. I believe there has to be some unknown energy/essence driving our universe.......no facts to back that up, but I do believe it. If one wanted to put a name to this energy/essence and call it god........fine by me (although I don't believe it would have any human traits or charicteristics as are put upon god by religions).........still, this energy/essence driving our universe and multiple universes if applicable is behind our natural world.......which is what science explains. Science is by no means a replacement for a "higher power, driving force, god, etc."........if anything science is just the methods we go about finding out exactly how this "higher power, driving force, god, etc." manages to do so.

Hopsidfjahoiaghfkjbdfakdbfuidfgakljf!

That's me being excited because I just realized why stigmata must either be fake or psychosomatic:

Neither Jesus' hands nor the his feet were pierced by nails. Shhh! I'm not going to tell you more right now, but I'll explain later.

(And no, I'm not saying the Bible is full of fecal matter.)

What I know about Stigmata is that occasionally it's self-inflicted... occasionaly.
That is one cool story Ragesremorse.

P.S. Stigmata was a cool film.

If there was some supreme being behind everything, then why would he need to PLAN for something to happen. If he existed, 'he' could just make it happen without the need to make a plan

I want to know why people believe a supreme being would even care about their lives?

Yeah.......I can create a universe at will, but I'm concerned about you jerking off to that porno last night. to hell with you, I say.

FeceMan is right about Jesus's wounds. The picture of a crucifixtion that most people have in their minds is incorrect: the Romans drove nails through the wrists to support the weight of a person.


Evil Dead makes a good point about "God" watching you masturbate........

exactly.......the hands are far to fragile to support the weight of the human body. Gravity would cause the person's weight to pull the tissue clean from the nail drove through it.

One might notice in the film "Passion of the Christ" that Mel Gibson tried to play both sides. He knows that scientificly it is physically impossible for the human hand to support the weight of the human body......but he also adheres strictly to his faith claiming that the nails were indeed drove through the palms, not the wrists. Everybody else notice that he attempted to solve this problem by using ropes tied around Jesus' elbows fastened to the cross to support his weight?........even though the bible nor any known Christian texts mention this.

Gibson ought to have known that the "hands" in Hebrew extended farther down than what we think of when we hear "hand".

That is true. Even today, the wrists are anatomically part of the hand.

Misunderstandings creep into stories over time, that's for certain.....

from the Catholic dictonary

STIGMATA. Phenomenon in which a person bears all or some of the wounds of Christ in his or her own body, i.e., on the feet, hands, side, and brow. The wounds appear spontaneously, from no external source, and periodically there is a flow of fresh blood. The best known stigmatic was St. Francis of Assisi. During an ecstasy on Mount Alvernia on September 17, 1224, he saw a seraph offer him an image of Jesus crucified and imprint upon him the sacred stigmata. Blood used to flow from these wounds until the time of his death two years later. He tried to conceal the phenomenon but not very successfully. Since that time scholarly research has established some three hundred twenty cases of stigmatization, among them more than sixty persons who have been canonized.

Authentic stigmatization occurs only among people favored with ecstasy and is preceded and attended by keen physical and moral sufferings that thus make the subject conformable to the suffering Christ. The absence of suffering would cast serious doubt on the validity of the stigmata, whose assumed purpose is to symbolize union with Christ crucified and participation in his own martyrdom.

Through centuries of canonical processes, the Church has established certain criteria for determining genuine stigmata. Thus the wounds are localized in the very spots where Christ received the five wounds, which does not occur if the bloody sweat is produced by hysteria or hypnotism. Generally the wounds bleed afresh and the pains recur on the days or during the seasons associated with the Savior's passion, such as Fridays or feast days of Our Lord. The wounds do not become festered and the blood flowing from them is pure, whereas the slightest natural lesion in some other part of the body develops an infection. Moreover, the wounds do not yield to the usual medical treatment and may remain for as long as thirty to forty years. The wounds bleed freely and produce a veritable hemorrhage; and this takes place not only at the beginning but again and again. Also the extent of the hemorrhage is phenomenal; the stigmata lie on the surface, removed from the great blood vessels, yet the blood literally streams from them. Finally true stigmata are not found except in persons who practice the most heroic virtues and possess a special love of the Cross. (Etym. Latin stigma; from Greek, tattoo mark; from stizein, to prick tattoo.)


and yes I believe in it.........

In 1902, a German stigmatic known as "Elizabeth K." was reported to develop stigmata in response to the suggestions of her doctor.

then there is the dispute on where the nails where put in the hand region.

True. I remember reading an article at uni about how Roman Crucifixions were usually carried out and so forth, and it seems more likely they would have been placed in the wrists.

I'm going to say that he was hallucinating and his conviction that the event happened created the psychosomatic wounds.

In answer to whoever's question at the very beginning, there are two saints (that I know of, anyway) that are known for being stigmatic. The first was St. Francis of Assisi, but he wasn't necessariy known for being stigmatic. He's the patron saint of the animals. There is a candidate (?) for canonization, Padre Pio de Pietrilcina (definite sp) who is known as the Friar of the Stigmata. He bled profusely from his hands every day for 50 years and wore gloves and bandages to cover the wounds. He suffered from other wounds as well, but I think the most famous were the wounds on his hands. After his death in 1973 (i believe...) his body showed no signs of the wound ever happening.

An interesting theory is that there are at least 12 living stigmatics in the world at any given time; to correspond with the twelve apostles.

As to the question of my beliefs on the matter, I am undecided as of yet. I am somewhat convinced about Padre Pio, but as to the theory described above, I think it's an interesting concept, but I don't know if I would necessarily attest to its validity.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Stigmata are bodily marks, sores, or sensations of pain corresponding in location to the crucifixion wounds of Jesus, usually occurring during states of religious ecstasy or hysteria.

Scientists can replicate stigmata in controlled settings and psychologists attribute the phenomena to a psychosomatic disorder.

Yes that is true, infact I just read a lot about it today in a book called the Holographic Universe. Some holes in their hands are quite large. Some holes look like they have short dark hard nails in them, but it's really dead, hard skin. The blood on the feet always seems to drip down, like the picture of Jesus on the cross, even if they are in a different position going against gravity. On many people, the wounds close up and heal right away. There was also a man who had been pierced with a sword type thing in his side like Jesus, but it didn't harm him and he didn't bleed. He was used for a scientific study because of this.

Also, Einsteins unknown theory is discussed in the book I'm reading now.
The Holographic Universe. Written about physicists and their examination with sub-particles, and quantum time and space. It's really interesting and easy to understand. They have found that sub-particles are acting in an "a live" kind of way. Like they have some kind of consciousness. They can also turn into waves that over lap each other. These subatomic, I think that's the word, are what we are all really made up of, and in all actuality, everything around us, including ourselves, are interconnected in this flow of waves. Kinda hard to explain, but sooo cool. With this theory, they can explain the paranormal, telekinesis, and how thoughts can cause changes in what we think reality is. Spontaneous healing's, why multiple personalities are the way they are, what effect it has on dreams..

Best book I've ever read

That is until I find another book that I say that about.

stigmatics is an actual known case its a rare condition , most stigmatics are religious and believe it to be a sign from god...mt R.E teacher has met a real life stigmatic who bleeds around easter time...stigmatics are not well known because the condition has never been explained by science therefore is a miracle and to be honest as some one who has strongly believes that religion is a pile of **** this was the only thing that made me think twice

I find it interesting that people used to get the holes in the hands until they figured out that Jesus was actually punctured in the wrists. Then they started getting holes in the wrist. It is hard to explain that.

Most of the stories I had heard abot that sort of thing were fake stories.People offen did it to themselves first to get attention or whatever.
So I doubt that it could happen in this time of age.jm

Most of the stories I had heard abot that sort of thing were fake stories.People offen did it to themselves first to get attention or whatever.
So I doubt that it could happen in this time of age.jm

Dare I ask why you doubt that it could happen in this time of age?



Or very easy, depending on how cynical one wants to be.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Or very easy, depending on how cynical one wants to be. True.

Sigh, I would not put it past anyone

stigmata, spontaneously developing{non medically} signs/burn/bleeding at points or in the shape of crosses. on your wrists/hands, head{crown of thorns}, chest{spear of longinuss piercing through ribs}, feats.ankles{potential stake/vines}.

said to be a sign of holiness/innocence/fealing christ's pain since ur so holly.

the greater number of times., its often self inflicted or inflicted by a family/church member. its often child abuse/attention gaining.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
stigmata, spontaneously developing{non medically} signs/burn/bleeding at points or in the shape of crosses. on your wrists/hands, head{crown of thorns}, chest{spear of longinuss piercing through ribs}, feats.ankles{potential stake/vines}.

said to be a sign of holiness/innocence/fealing christ's pain since ur so holly.

the greater number of times., its often self inflicted or inflicted by a family/church member. its often child abuse/attention gaining.

I remember reading about a case where people were saying it was miraculous, stigmata wounds that would not heal, till some tests were done which indicated they weren't healing because the individual was applying a chemical to keep the (self inflicted) wounds open

I thought seriously, what would Jesus think of such madness (madness? This is Stigmata!)

actually. it has often been reported to appear in children/people in a coma. {like those peoplewho are in almost permanent comas with no fool proof way of restoring mental functions}. because apparently they are innocent and what not. same with the weaping madonna thing. often it is family members inflicting the wounds over and over again. to a comatose person.

the authoritie are avoided by having connections in the government{christian} who are more than willing to help. and having a constant stream of admirers and visitors who pray and ask for miracles/blessing form the stigmatised SAINTS. usually in america it only happens in homish/southers communities where most authorities have christian/traditional members to begin with.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
actually. it has often been reported to appear in children/people in a coma. {like those peoplewho are in almost permanent comas with no fool proof way of restoring mental functions}. because apparently they are innocent and what not. same with the weaping madonna thing. often it is family members inflicting the wounds over and over again. to a comatose person.

the authoritie are avoided by having connections in the government{christian} who are more than willing to help. and having a constant stream of admirers and visitors who pray and ask for miracles/blessing form the stigmatised SAINTS. usually in america it only happens in homish/southers communities where most authorities have christian/traditional members to begin with.

Creepy, and very Cult like.