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What is justice? Personally I think humankind's idea that justice comes from bringing harm to those that break the law is unenlightened. I refuse to believe that if there was a God, it would see this as the ultimate evolution of civilisation. It seems to me that justice is confused too often with vengeance, especially in the case of the death penalty, which does nothing but give superficial closure to the victims or their families. As for it being a deterrent, I think that's bullshit. If anything it's a catalyst of more crime. Firstly because if someone commits a crime punishable by death, they have no reason not to commit any other crime they wanted to, because they are already paying the ultimate price. Secondly, if the government, which is supposed to be the most responsible group of people in society, shows so little value for life then society's actions would reflect these values which would lead to more crime. What do you think justice is?

my way

Justice is basically the gain of one and the lost of another. That's why you see balance scale in courts. Some outweight the other.

DarkAge> Yeah, I agree with you.

But it sounds more like you're asking "What god does punishment do"?
What IS justice?

Justice, by government standards, bases its roots in Hammarabi's Law. Justice is as WindDancer said. While crime is loss of one and the gain of another, justice seeks to correct that imbalance in the scale, the gain of one, and the loss of another. What is just, and how justice should be applied, however, is a matter of opinion and often, too often, the government.

I agree with you though, DrakAge, 99% of the time, justice is confused with vengeance, and there is a fine line between them.

On an unrelated note, what's a f*ck monkey?

A f*cked up S.O.B., who pokes fun at people whenever he can.

Least, thats why I'm one...

True justic is getting veangeance for a crim commited against a person

Says the Republican who supports capital punishment and condems abortion.

I support abortion is its rape of the baby has complications I just dont approve of elective abortions

So you think people should be able to have an abortion, but not be able to choose to have an abortion themselves? Wow...Thats the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever heard of...

But anyway, lets keep this on topic. Justice is not vengeance, although the two are close in meaning.

Justice - Uprightness, equity, vindication of right, administration of law.

Vengeance - The act of avenging oneself or another; retributive infliction of injury or punishment; hurt or harm done from vindictive motives.

Justice doesnt necessarily harm the offender.

To be justice is what happens to you at the end.If you die and go to hell then that is god justice to you.If you go to heaven it is your justice.Justice to me is being punished.JM

^Your post makes no sense. You say that Justice is punishment, and yet you say that if your good, you go to heaven in the end, and the end result is justice. Assuming heaven is a real place, it is supposed to be Paradise. So is going to Paradise punishment?

Justice is not necessarily punishment. It could be rewarding. If you go to this supposed Heaven when you die, because you've lived a humble and "good" life, then that is just. Because you lived a good life as a kind person, you go to heaven. Its balanced. If you live a bad life, and go to Hell, then that to is just, because it evens everything out. Again, its balanced. If you kill someone, whether it be Murder in the 1st degree or Manslaughter in the 2nd degree, do you then deserve to die? Many argue that you do. Hammarabi's Law. If someone truthfully accidently ran your brother over, and he was D.O.A., do they deserve to die themselves, even though it was accidental? If this person had lived an honest, humble life so far, and commited an accident, as all humans do, does that person deserve to die for their crime? Is that equity?

Is that Balance?

"Balance is best in all things." - Menelaus and Alcinous, The Odyssey

I don't believe in Hell.

It was an example. I doubt JM would accept any other one.

erm... but we are still in the state of learning right? and we will always be...I think... let's say if a kid about 6 years old burn a hospital... what "justice" should be made to him? I mean I don't see much difference as to him as to adults... because as long as we are in the state of learning, nobody really deserves hell...

By the way, I thought punishment is only used as a tool for learning? why is there a "death punishment"??

because we live in times where certain crimes are not meant to be forgiven. either that or we need to make an example of someone.

justice to me is when a person's misdoings are scorned and possibly punished, while as Dwarfdude said, good deeds acknowledged.

I personally think justicxe is just somre word people made up. Its a way of society to deal with things it likes or dislikes. For example if someone kills another person and the society tzhat it happened in doesn
't approve iof the deed it will do "justice" which means its gonna punish the person. And its gonna do that for different reasons:
-To give venegance (I hope that means revenge I heard other people using it)
-To teach the person
-To prevent other people from doing a similar deed by giving an example what wwill happen.

Now there is of course also another type of justice more positvie like if a person gets rewarded for doing "good" deeds.

I guess there is ev en more to the wortd but I think there is not natural justice it is just something humans agree by entering a society.

Justice is a concept involving the fair and moral treatment of all persons.

Storm, 'fair' and 'moral' is not only vague concepts, but also very relative and subjective and therefore your statement: "Justice is a concept involving the fair and moral treatment of all persons." is philosophically week and meaningless. Justice is a social activity which treats some people good and others bad.

justice is when people really get what they deserve

Justice is when you become a slave to the family that you've injured for ever!

which would be coverd by

It was used in ancient of times.

Justice is also what some people deserve to receive and others not.

which also is covered by

quote:
Justice is also what some people deserve to receive and others not.
which also is covered by
quote:
justice is when people really get what they deserve

NO, some people don't deserve justice, which is covered in this: "Justice is also what some people deserve to receive and others not."

if they dont deserve justice and still receive it, then justice aint served

Exaclty, your statement is included in mine by implication.

yeah but the question was about justice not injustice

Justice and injustice is one and the same - it's all relative.

Justice is a "just act of reprisal or a just result to a situation"

Injustice is an "unust act of reprisal or a unjust result to a situation"

They are not one in the same, they are different.

kharma, let me enlighten you - 'Justice' and 'Injustice' are relative concepts - very subjective. So, a certain 'just' act might be 'unjust' to someone else and vice versa. The subjectivity of these concepts make them alternate in meaning from one extreme to another, which renders them equal in meaning and exactly the same.

in that case should cover the lot

finti: "quote:
justice is when people really get what they deserve"

'Justice' is relative and 'deserve' is relative as well. There can never be 100% agreement on what someone or people really deserve, it's all relative. So your argument falls flat on its back.

as long as it is a majority it stands its gorund

Justice implies morality.. the morals you carry may or may not be just to other cultures or individuals

thats why you get what you deserves is neutral

finti: "as long as it is a majority it stands its gorund"

So, finti, the majority is always right? Majority proofs nothing - it's a weak argument.

a majority desicion will create a winner which again prooves that majority wins

there's always a majority - what's your point? Winning is not indicative of 'absolute right'.

as of the now it is, in the future it might be contradicted though

In other words, you admit that it can change, so then again your argument falls flat on its back. Really, what is your point?

meaning that the argument talks about now, what the future brings we really dont know so we can oly talk about now, and for now the arguments stands it gorund

A great argument will always stand its ground, if your's will only stand its ground temporarily, then it's pretty weak. Anyway, who says your argument is shared by the majority?

most people will agree to that justice is when people really get what they deserve it is just in our nature to do so.

"NO, some people don't deserve justice, which is covered in this: "Justice is also what some people deserve to receive and others not."

What happened to "...and justice for all"?

-AC

to Hollywoodish???????

Hey alpha, stop interfering here, me and finti are trying to insult each other here - it's fun...don't ruin this for us.

I didn't realise I disabled your "Post reply" button but posting in here myself.

-AC

Alpha, for F*ck's sake, just buzz off - you're so annoying to philosophers, I don't think you fit in here.

Buzz off? I have as much right to be in here as you do, can't handle being challenged? Then don't have such a short fuse.

For a self-proclaimed genius you sure to have a short wire.

Don't act like you can just say shit to me and have it done. If I wanna post here I shall. I'm not flaming nor am I being abusive.

-AC

**** **** ********* *** *******!!

LOL Philo can't take the heat.

3....2....1...


blowup

KharmaDog, I think you fried me with your smiley.

I love that smilie.

It's a great one. I'd like to know how to program one. I'm kind of starting to teach myself graphic and 3d programming.

so know were gonna get 3d poems

Maybe.

cant wait

>> What is justice?

An illusion?

>> I refuse to believe that if there was a God, it would see this as the ultimate evolution of civilisation.

But maybe it still brings some evolution? Like not so long ago thieves had their hands cut off, yet now they are treated more liberal...

Evolution is only successful if one has the right environment... If our environment changes, there are 3 possibilities, either evolution, or extinction, or some will find some ways to adapt themselves to their environment without evolution...

Evolution/change is all around us. And justice really is just an illusion - something hopelessly unatainable by virtue of subjectivity. But still, if there was a god, there would not have been evolution - creation refers to the casting of something into a perfect, unchangable form, not needing evolution.

Evolution happens regardless of the 'right' environment' - evolution means the changing of species and manifestation of new ones. So, evolution happens, but an evolved species can only survive if it fits the environment.

that is what I meant actually..."an evolved species can only survive if it fits the environment." I wasn't really paying attention to those words that I typed, because I'm in school now...

Ok, that's cool. You are in school? How old are you? And do you guys sit in front of a computer all day...with internet access...do you ever do real work? That sounds quite cool.

I'm only 17, I'm not working yet...
we have to do our work on our research on the internet... that is why we need the computer..

Ok...wow...I'm almost 24, but it feels like yesterday when I was still 17 - time flies, man!

Justice is an illusion subjected to law enforcement brought out by an un-united society wanting order. However you can not have order through an all out peace intiative because justice can not be had by everyone. There are different forms of justice and they're all subjected to perspective. So to answer your question: Justice is subjective.

Justice is me

Justice is only a human opinion. Humanity never agrees on the definition of Justice, what one believes is fair another disagrees with. so my conclusion is that justice is only an opinion, an illusion.

Maat is justice and all beyond ye Veiled One, only justice can come from Ye Great Ones...

Justice is righting the wrongs in the world.

That's exactly what I said, There is only ye Origin who can see through time and open ye views of justice, you have to look way farther to see it, look beyond the Veils, defeat ye nightmares within and above all: do not fear, then you will see justice..

Why do we need justice, if we don't respect it? Many has taken advantage of justice, and they just do things that benefit them, and outrun the law itself...

maybe it's time for heroes to come forward and fight for it.